T Wrecks

No need to, it's fine - it's only SimCity, after all. It's just that, if we make rules, people need to follow them, and if they were to be like this, then I'd logically have to remove those files (and we might have to look for other affected uploads, too), that's all I'm saying. I never meant to disrespect SimGoober with those (I rather saw them as my little tribute to him), but I might have. I don't want that. But really, please - don't you worry about any of this. I wish you all the strength and all the support that you can get right now, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that these bad times in RL will come to an end soon. Opinions on particular topics aside, I always have to smile when I see that fat cat avatar of yours, and I admire all the work you have done for the community - mostly behind the scenes and not in the limelight at that. Although I can't claim to really know you, I hope we will continue to have you around. Please accept my best wishes, that's all I'm asking of you right now.

Well, you could always use the splitting method: Temporarily remove one half of your plugins and test. Error persists? Then the problem must lie somewhere within the 50% you are currently loading. Split again, rinse and repeat... not the most pleasant process, but it works. Before you do that, however, I'd advise checking whether the game runs fine withput any plugins. If it's borked even without any plugins loading, then chances are that the flaw is in the installation itself and not in the plugins. All this sounds very trivial, but I'm afraid there are not that many approaches to take...

@catty-cb: OK, in that case - how many time do y'all give me to pull my IRM lots off the STEX (or is anybody of you going to do that?), and how many warning points do I get? I'm sorry for sharing them.

También es posible que encuentres tutoriales acerca de gmax en castellano en la Web, o sea en foros o en YouTube. Ni siquiera tienen que ser específicamente para SimCity porque la geometría es universal. Cuando sabes cómo utilizar la herramienta "Array" en gmax para crear un número de objetos cualquieras a la vez, también puedes aplicar este conocimiento a la creación de ventanas para un edificio. Al fin y al cabo, todos los objetos - casas, barcos, coches - están compuestos de formas geométricas básicas. Por eso, si sabes cómo crear un cilindro para la rueda de un coche, también sabes cómo crear un cilindro para un edificio redondo. Lamento no poder contribuir consejos y ayuda más específicos puesto que, como Matias, nunca he utilizado gmax o 3dsmax.

When you speak of "re-release", what do you mean exactly, from a technical point of view? Just so we're on the same page. Of course not, that would be way too specific. Therefore it might make sense to stick to some general principles that can be applied pretty much universally. The "standalone vs. patch" differentiation would allow that. No matter what unforeseeable possibility arises in the future, this general principle should continue to be applicable.

Matt, our work is absolutely irrelevant in this context. This is not about you or me. The DarkNite conversion thing was merely posted as an example of stuff that was not possible back then, is possible now, but I fear might rot away unused because many of the authors who made the relevant stuff are no longer here. No matter if you, I, or the President of the USA did the test renders, and how many of them. You saw the function in action yourself - I'm sure you want to see it put to good use so people can enjoy the results? Yes, and as I tried to explain, to my knowledge there has never been a particular tradition or agreement that tools won't be used on BATs in a particular way although that would, technically, be possible. There have just been circumstances when such tools didn't even exist and, hence, there wasn't even a need for any particular regulation other than the usual "don't just repost my file under your name" - which has always been upheld and will not be changed either way, that much is sure. Now that the tools are there and it looks like they might actually be used to some relevant degree, the question arises how we deal with this new situation. There is no retroactive change of rules or traditions. It's not like BATters had always been told, for example, "if you upload, you can trust your BAT will never be converted to DarkNite", and now some jerks come and say "April Fools! Guess what, we'll change that policy, haha!" There was a time when such modding was not relevant, and now it suddenly is, and we need to find a way to deal with it. What's worse, times have changed, whether we want it or not. The community is shrinking, there is no longer a reliable flood of new stuff, there are not many creators left. Sites are disappearing, links are dying, persons are disappearing, and it becomes increasingly harder to keep things together. Meanwhile, the heap of old stuff grows, and so do the possibilities we have to make the best out of it. That's the situation we're in. I don't want to take stuff from other peoples' hands and claim it. Nobody does. I wish we'd find a way to show respect to the creators, but also keep the sharing spirit of the community alive and present content in a way that's accessible for newcomers. We need that more than ever. I'm sitting on a ton of stuff, and although I might not know much, I can apparently make stuff that some people appreciate and enjoy. I want to share it, and I'd be happy if others jumped in as well. I don't wanna shrug it off and say "Oh well, creator gone - bad luck, folks." I don't want to show pictures in threads and stroke my ego when people say "Hey, that looks cool". How sad would that be? I'd be happier if I knew that some other blokes downloaded that stuff and enjoy it - and if I could introduce them to a creator this way, all the better. As @matias93 showed very well in his post, it's particularly the older stuff that has potential to be brought back to a second life with a few tweaks. If all of that was ineligible for changes because the author can no longer be contacted, wouldn't that be wasted potential? I'd therefore prefer a solution along the lines of what @Jasoncw wrote above. It would make sure that the authors get credit, that downloaders get to know the authors' names (and potentially their other stuff), that the original file remains available in an unaltered shape, and that the community can keep evolving, tweaking, modding, and sharing. I cannot see any wrong in that because nobody loses anything.

Why "unfortunately", though? This very instruction may very well have been the spark that really paved the way for the big and bustling modding community for SC4 in the first place. Why would I be mad that someone takes stuff I made, changes a few things, and re-uploads so that more people might enjoy it? This has, in fact, been the one big premise under which all content creators - lotters, modders, mappers - have been uploading their stuff for almost 15 years now: Anyone is free to use anyone's ideas, tweak a few things, and re-upload - as long as they don't claim ownership of anything that isn't theirs, and give credit where credit is due. BATters didn't have to think about that because the tools didn't exist initially, but now... well, here we are. It's a pity that so many people are unavailable these days. JBSimio, for example, is no longer active, I think. I would have hoped that other people might have liked my re-scaling, recolouring file for his BAT, and that it would give that old BAT many people may not even know about some fresh downloads, and maybe make them aware of his work in the first place. Without the possibility to get his explicit permission, though, this won't be possible. I've also been testing an extension for GoFSH with rivit that would allow 3dsmax BATs without DarkNite render to be converted to DarkNite, but several authors have long since left the community. Guess that means no DarkNite patches, or only for me because I can't share then. If that should be the decision that's taken, fine - I have the stuff. But it still makes me sad because I'd prefer to share the fun with others. That's more what I would have thought makes a non-profit hobby community.

Hello @mattb325 - I'm paging you because this thread is beginning to get difficult to navigate, and I wanted to reply to your post that showed my rescaled and recoloured version of JBSimio's buildings. I agree that these are probably a good example to show what kind of modifications we are talking about. What's less ideal is that they show a combination of two different modifications, and by "different" I'm also referring to what goes on in the background. The rescaling operation is carried out using cogeo's SC4 model tweaker. It normally alters the S3D files inside the model directly. Let's leave that part aside for now. It's a more complicated case, I guess, and this thread is enough of a labyrinth already. I want to focus on the recolour first because that's easier. The recolour is NOT a part of the original model. I made that one by exporting only the required textures, changing them, and putting them in a separate .DAT file. This file on its own won't do anything. It absolutely requires the original model to work. Therefore, the analogy with the Jesus picture is absolutely not correct for recolours. If anything, you can imagine the recolour like a filter that you could get separately, and if you put that filter on your lens and look at the original, untouched, unaltered, Jesus picture that is still available for everyone to look at in its original state, then and only then will it look like the painted-over version, and only for the person(s) with the filter in front of their lens. What would the painter say about that filter? Would they get a chuckle out of it? Would they think it's corny and their original painting was way better? Who knows. IMO, it doesn't even matter. Why not? Because I don't give a shit about the painter and don't have respect for them? No. It's because the painter still has their original painting on the wall, unharmed, untouched, and unaltered. What the painter thinks about the painting and what the people think basically boils down to opinion and personal taste and preference. There will always be people with different tastes and opinions, and who of them is right? All of them are, because it's their lives. As long as nobody forces their opinion on others, I don't see a problem. Nothing gets destroyed, nothing gets lost. In the analogy with the picture, the original art got destroyed and is irretrievably lost, and I would disagree with that even if the change had been the other way around because the original art deserves to be preserved, no matter what I think of it personally. But nothing is lost or irretrievably altered here, and therefore the analogy doesn't apply to this case.

To prevent any misenterpretations, let me start by saying that I am explicitly NOT speaking in favour of or against any side, approach, or opinion. At this state, I'm merely wondering how to proceed. So please, everybody, do not take any part of my post out of context and use it to support your argument against anyone else. It is not intended for that. Now, what made me wonder a bit about the state of things is this part: Couldn't I, by the same logic, say that "changing the trees or textures on a lot I originally made ALWAYS changes the visual representation of the lot in game and by that action impinges upon the artistic intention of the lotter"? I mean, it boils down to the same, doesn't it? I made something that I intended to look exactly the way it looks. And then some guy changes that look and re-distributes an altered version. The only difference is the means employed to achieve that change. Now what? With lots, the altered version will even work on its own. It might have different trees, different icons, different stats, and be totally different from my original artistic intentions. Nobody who downloads the altered lot because it caters exactly for their taste will download or even see my lot. The altered version is a replacement mod, basically. With BATs, the original .sc4model file will at least always be required as a dependency, the author will be seen, and the author will get a download. The altered version will be an add-on mod on top of the original. Now, as far as I see it, condeming the distribution of altered content in the case of any add-on modifications to existing models and, at the same time, seeing no problem with the distribution of altered content in the case of any replacement modifications to existing lots is only logical if either of the following premises is applied: A practice is considered "good and fair" NOT based on what it entails, but based on for how long it has been applied - stealing bikes has been going on for years and is therefore perfectly fine, but stealing e-scooters is a new phenomenon and therefore condemnable. One thing is seen as considerably less valuable than the other - stealing an e-scooter is a no-no, but stealing a bike is just fine. Which of the two premises do we apply here?

Holy mother of Allen keys, now that is gorgeous! Makes me wanna get some köttbullar and go buy a nice DESKLÖMP for my home. And tea candles. Lots of tea candles.

You don't need to worry at all - in fact, you could easily upload it on the STEX as long as you do not include PEG's scows or Simmer2's cargo in your file, but instead link to them as a dependency*. Showing pictures is absolutely unproblematic anyway. I think you had a marvelous idea there, and for my part, I'd welcome seeing it uploaded on the STEX! To reduce your worries even more, you are known on this site as a very creative and valuable member, and you have been here for a long time. Even if you did upload something that does not quite conform to the rules, we would know it's an honest mistake, and a STEX moderator or admin would inform you that you'll have to change something, give you enough time to do so, and then unlock the file again - no warning points, no bans, no problem. Only if you know perfectly well that something is wrong, have been told not to do it again and end up doing it nonetheless you'll get yourself in trouble. ____ *If you ask the creator(s) - such as Simmer2 in this case - if you may include the file and they say "Yes, sure", you can even include it without problems.

You may lack the background PNG files that are normally in the game's root plugins folder (NOT the "My Documents" plugins folder), that would explain the black background. The city tile in grey, however, really beats me.

Wait, wait... the Haughwout building? Hasn't @Don Miguel made one with the same name?

I remember the issue was brought up on the German SimCity sub-forum of www.simszone.de several years ago, but only briefly... my best guess would be that people are so used to Maxis applying inconsistent scales that this particular issue wasn't even perceived as anything special and worth mentioning on its own. I think there is also a medium-density commercial building in the Chicago tileset that's surprisingly tall. Wait a second... Ah yes, it's called "West & Co." and is a stage 5, but has 20+ floors. It's not quite as tall as Ingebretson Place, though.

Ah yes, this Maxis building sure is oversized. I do have the impression that the game was pretty rushed, and this is one of the consequences. I have recently compiled my plugins suite for residential mid-rise apartment blocks, but unfortunately I haven't come across a suitable 4x2 replacement, either.

Ok, fair enough. That base texture has become kind of your signature style, so it's quite understandable that you want to stick to it. I think the final version turned out great! I wouldn't worry too much about Ill_Tonkso's station. Manye people apparently play without night view altogether. Quite a loss - not least in the case of your beautifully lit lots! - sometimes, but then again: if a player doesn't care for it anyway, it's not a loss for them. It's sometimes frustrating for the creator when a BAT won't permit something, but that's the way it is. That loading problem you are describing doesn't sound like anything I have experienced myself, either. I hope you'll get it fixed, but I'm afraid I won't be able to contribute anything really helpful in this case.

It might be more of a saturation issue, actually. I wouldn't say that the red ATVs are too bright per se, but they sure stand out because the red is so saturated. Lookig at it more closely, the roof of the building is pretty saturated as well, while the rest looks spot on to me. Good idea to make a quad/ATV dealership, by the way! I don't think we have any of those yet.

No worries - you're not working under a contract or bound to any deadline, after all. Speaking of scripts, I remembered that antivirus software often issued false positives on harmless content such as STEX downloads. I'm wondering whether a custom script might trigger security warnings that might worry less tech-savvy users. Those "other platform tweaks" you mention sound interesting, not least because there are several things that could work better on modern systems. I don't know what you have up your sleeve, of course, but things like the bugged region view when playing in widescreen resolutions, to mention just one example, can sure be annoying. Some tweaks to make SC4 run better overall might be helpful.