-
Announcement
-
Simtropolis Returns! 05/26/2026
See here for details about our site recovery efforts.
-
Search the Community
Showing results for tags 'desirability'.
Found 20 results
-
When I analyze the game with iLive Reader, I notice some interesting varibales within the developmento of residential simulator, at General -> Developer -> Residential $/$$/$$$. There, we can find elements called "Proximity Effect", and they seem to dictate how the proximity to a certain type of development impacts the desirability for other developments. For example, it looks like being next to R$ sims is undesirable for R$$$ sims. But I would like to know a little more about how this effect work. 1- First, how should the sequence of numbers be read? Is it an alternation between a given distance X and the development impact for being X tiles aways from the building? 2- Also, I would like to have a sense of scale: I see that the development impact in being next to R$ for R$$$ sims are around values such as -5, -3, etc. How big is this -5 impact in the overall desirability calculation? Can it make a big difference? Or is it too low a number, compared with other impacts such as education and garbage, to matter in the game? If too low, I would like to increase it to see if we can have more gradual separation between different wealth levels (it's so easy for me to have wealthy mansions next to poor homes, I think we should have some R$$ gradient between these two).
- 9 Replies
-
- 1
-
-
- development
- desirability
- (and 1 more)
-
Been a while since I posted anything, never started a topic before. Hopefully this isn't rehashing a topic that's already better covered elsewhere and I simply missed it while trying to search the forum. I read through as much info on Cori's No Kickout Mod and one other mod, the Less Abandonment Mod, as together they seem to create a simulation environment that simply makes more sense for how the game should actually run compared to how it does run in vanilla. Added both to my plugins and they're both working as described. So, I'm really enjoying the greater level of control these two mods provide when paired - R§ is allowed to establish itself and evolve into higher capacity lots without being booted by R§§ or R§§§. Same goes for CS§. I've had some R§§ and CS§§ develop naturally via demand. Even had some I-HT develop already (and is incredibly stable, only lacking the R§§§ employees as none have developed in my R zones). Just to provide a bit more context before my questions, I'm currently building a test city to see how things have changed with these two mods added. Everything is gridded to 6x10 using roads only. I've got R at the core with an elementary school, high school, and medical clinic in the very center with low-density R zoning in the surrounding eight blocks. There's a single low-density commercial block right beside the one R block at 3 o'clock (best way to visualize it). The rest is all I-Ag with two med-density I zones that don't touch any of the R zones. I could provide a screenshot but I'm not sure it really matters. Everything has water. So I haven't had any CO develop yet, and there's quite a bit of demand for both CO§§ and CO§§§ at this point. In the vanilla game, desirability was so high just by default it seemed that both would inevitably develop without much effort as long as there wasn't pollution nearby and the zone was fully watered. So now I'm interested in learning more about what CO actually DOES need to develop with these two mods in the picture. Should I expect to have to start adding plazas to my commercial parcels to get any CO to develop, whether §§ or §§§? Is there a different demand threshold for CO to develop compared to CS§§ and CS§§§? Is there a different desirability threshold for CO to develop compared to CS? Are there other conditions to consider in order to start getting CO development? Thanks.
- 6 Replies
-
- 2
-
-
- commercial
- office
- (and 5 more)
-
Questions about residential lot development
JeffSalisbury posted a topic in SimCity 4 General Discussion
I have some questions about residential lot development. I likely have quite a bit to learn about how to better control what wealth level develops and how to prevent abandonment. 1. Do high wealth (R$$$) buildings only house high wealth sims, or is the pop of a building a mixture of wealth levels like job (C and I) buildings? 2. If, due to good health and education coverage, parks, rewards, and other factors, your R zones have high desirable for all R wealth levels, is there a way to prevent too many R$$$ buildings from developing? My city has massive demand for, and jobs available to, R$ and R$$, but R$$$ medium density towers keep developing then quickly degrading into R$$ or R$ occupancy, which looks ugly. 3. If a certain area of R zoning is only desirable to R$, and the R$ demand is crazy high, is there a reason why R$ towers from at least medium density zoning wouldn't develop in that area if it's the only place desirable to R$? Thanks in advance to any who can help or point me to some good resources for this.- 8 Replies
-
- 3
-
-
- desirability
- wealth
- (and 7 more)
-
Lately I've been playing around with the dataviews, and I think at least one of my experiments might be useful to others so I'm hoping to get some feedback and ideas for improvement here. I use the Less Abandonment mod and find that it improves the game a lot for such a simple idea. Not because it reduces abandonment (which is mostly caused by mismatches between supply and demand of jobs in my experience), but because it gives you more control over where and when $$$ lots will develop. It does this by raising the desirability thresholds above which different wealth levels can grow. I thought it would be useful to be able to see these thresholds in the desirability dataview. Here's an example showing I-HT desirability (the colours are a slightly adapted version of the colour ramp from Cori's Parks Aura dataview): The important threshold here is 90 - the dark blue/purple area is where I-HT can grow. Another important threshold is 50, below which buildings start to become distressed, shown by the sharp boundary between green and white/light red. I have found this to be useful when play testing - I was able to control the pace and extent of R$$$ development by careful placement of parks and rewards, using Cori's Parks Aura and these dataviews. It was also useful to be able to see which areas were almost good enough for CO$$$, so that I knew where to put plazas to encourage them. The Less Abandonment threshold for R$$$ and CO$$$ is 120, and I found that they developed as soon as I started seeing areas of magenta on the dataview (and never before that) so I'm confident it's showing that threshold properly. High tech was developing just before I started seeing areas go blue, so that needs more testing in case it isn't calibrated properly. A couple of the desirability views are more or less useless. The C$ one is especially so because it typically shows desirability off the scale almost everywhere. The I-D one is also useless because it is usually very similar to the I-M view. R$ is another not very useful one, though I do look at it on occasion. I was thinking about other possible ways of displaying desirability data to replace these useless dataviews, and did come up with one idea. What if you could see which residential lots the CO$$$ developers would like to get their hands on? Here's an example: I've replaced the C$ dataview with a second view of the CO$$$ desirability data, but showing only residential lots where desirability is 90 or above. The small magenta blocks are where CO$$$ could develop right now if you zoned for them. The rest (blue/purple) have potential but are not quite there yet. Here's another using the same concept for I-HT (replacing the I-D view): In this case, because the growth threshold is 90, I-HT could grow in any of the highlighted lots if you zoned for it. Any comments on how useful this is? Any ways it could be improved? And if anyone has any other ideas for new ways to display desirability data, I'd be very happy to try them out. Data can be broken down in this way by any combination of lot type (R, C, I, or non-RCI) and density, but unfortunately not by wealth level as far as I know.
-
Version 1.0.0
1,727 Downloads
This very simple mod fixes a bug with the calculation of desirability for industrial zones that can cause it to be lower than intended. Industrial zones should prefer flat terrain, according to at least one advisor dialog in the game. In fact, the opposite is true: the desirability effect is 0 for flat land and increases to +10 at a slope value of 50. Assuming that's expressed in degrees, you would have to zone on very steep slopes to get the maximum desirability boost! There are more details about how I verified this bug in game in the following forum thread: I'm not the first to spot this discrepancy, since it is also fixed in CAM, but as far as I'm aware this is the first non-CAM fix for it. I apologise to the authors of any previous fixes if this is not the case. This mod changes the developer exemplars so that the highest positive effect on desirability (+10) occurs on totally flat terrain, reducing to zero at a slope of 10, and becoming negative until it reaches -10 at a slope of 20. This is more restrictive than in the vanilla game, but in fact it shouldn't have a dramatic impact because slope is given less weight than other desirability factors, especially for high tech. In general, it should make desirability slightly higher in most cities, especially on flat land where it's more likely to matter. As mentioned above, this bug is already fixed by CAM, so don't download this mod if you use CAM - it will cause conflicts and isn't needed. It also could conflict with the Less Abandonment Mod by @Bones1 : To prevent this conflict I have included two versions of the fix for I-HT - one based on the vanilla game, the other an edit of the I-HT file from Less Abandonment that adds the slope effect fix. Please read the installation instructions in the Readme to make sure you install it correctly. I'm not aware of any other conflicts, but if you do use another mod that changes the developer exemplars the simplest solution would probably be to edit the Slope Effect properties in that mod rather than downloading this one.- 1 Comment
- 9 Reviews
-
- 18
-
-
- industrial
- desirability
- (and 2 more)
-
I think I have spotted a bug, or at least an interesting discrepancy, in the way that industrial desirability is calculated. I find it hard to believe I'm the first to notice this, but couldn't find any mention of it when I tried a forum search, so apologies if it's old news. One of the desirability factors for all types of industry is slope. At least one advisor dialog suggests that industries prefer flat terrain, and this is what the Prima Strategy Guide says about it too. At this point you might be able to guess what the bug/discrepancy is... It's actually the other way around! Industries prefer building on slopes - the steeper the better. I happened to notice it yesterday when I was taking a look at the desirability factors in the developer exemplars. Each industrial developer exemplar has the Slope Effect property, described as "How much slope is a factor in desirability". In every case it is set to 0,0,50,10 - suggesting that the steeper the slope, the greater the desirability boost. At first I thought it must actually be using a "flatness" variable rather than slope, but it turns out that desirability really does increase with slope. Here are two industrial buildings in different parts of the Big City Tutorial tile, which I had been using to test a few things: An I-M building on relatively flat terrain... ...and an I-HT building on more sloped terrain From the query.txt files for these I got the following information: I-M on flat terrain ... | Slope: 1.2 ... | Desirability equation for I manufacturing | desirability = base value: 47 | + land value effect, f(value: 1): 0 | + slope effect, f(value: 1.6): 0 ... I-HT on sloped terrain ... | Slope: 9.1 ... | Desirability equation for I high tech | desirability = base value: -94 | + land value effect, f(value: 204): 6 | + slope effect, f(value: 16.9): 3 ... I'm not sure why there are two different numbers for slope, but it's clear that the more sloped terrain the I-HT is built on is having a small positive effect on desirability, while the flat terrain where the I-M is has zero effect. I tried a few different options for fixing this. Here's I-HT desirability in the same tile with the original slope effect of 0,0,50,10: Here I've reversed the relationship to 0,10,50,0: And here I've tried restricting the range of slopes that give a positive effect, and adding a negative effect to steeper slopes (0,10,10,0,20,-10): The overall effect on desirability is fairly small because slope has much less weight than other factors such as crime and pollution. Reversing the relationship to 0,10,50,0 increases desirability slightly over the whole tile, except on the steep undeveloped terrain the other side of the river (note the green square on the steepest ground in the first image that disappears in the second). Giving steeper slopes a negative effect reduces desirability in the more hilly terrain to the west and across the river. So although it's not really a big deal, it probably does reduce I-HT desirability a bit in cities on relatively flat tiles, in a way that I can't believe was intended.
- 11 Replies
-
- 7
-
-
- industrial
- desirability
- (and 2 more)
-
Like most people, I like to keep my industrial zones away from other areas. I started working on my port-city. Everything was working fine as this is not my first industrial city I have built. My surrounding cities all have demand for ID, IM, and IHT. The problem is, inside my port-city, I have ZERO demand (not even negative). So, I look at my Census Vault, All three are at 100% cap. Cool, no problem, I added the cap relief buildings such as the Army Base, Radio Tower, and the TWO census buildings, added more neighbor connections including road and rail... Still 100% with zero growth. I have deleted my Pegasus ports and BSC seaports (3.1). No change. I also have deleted all my industrial and it only a few would rebuild before back to 100%. I only have around 5,000 I-D, and 5,000 I-M and FIFTY THREE I-HT jobs and even put 10,000 sims in to see if it would change. I know I shouldn't be reaching cap at that low of levels. Many of my industrial lots are SimGoober lots, but there were no issues in the other cities for cap with these lots. Also have the latest CAM download. Any ideas on how to fix this?
-
Is it true Commute Time heavily influences Desirability for R$$ and R$$$?
Propfam posted a topic in SimCity 4 General Discussion
I have a city with some city around it that I deleted due to making the region imbalance (I should make a backup but I forgot, so). In that city, I have a moderate crime, 1 fire station with small coverage, functioning education, functioning healthcare, and although I have a landfill in the edge of the city, I had been bulldoze residentials located within 30 tiles radius. The traffic is mostly fine, only a small jam in some area because lots of traffic is pedestrian. This shouldn't be a problem right? Well, my commute time is 200. I used ferries to transport 700k R$ to other cities with enough CS$ jobs. In the beach area of the city, I have some CO$$$ and on the reclamated island, I also have R$$$ and CO$$$. But when I make the residentials to R$$ and R$$$ (the population decreases to 400k and the commute is around 50), why are they abandoned? I also noted that I plopped gas plant on the left side of the city and they did pollute the city but I replaced them with solar plant. I also noticed the desirability for R$$ and R$$$ is red before (without) God Mode trees are plopped despite my effort to increase the desirability. Is it true that commute time heavily influence desirability? Edit: even after R$$ and R$$$ were in place of R$, the desirability is still incredibly low. There are some abandoned buildings. After some planting trees and switching to solar plant, the desirability of course went up. However, the buildings are quickly abandoned. I don't know why this happened? Thanks. -
I'm curious if anyone has any tips for having high R$$ desirability in an area high while keeping R$$$ desirability low. For example, if I want R$ neighbourhoods, I can use pollution, deny services, or NIMBY buildings to suppress R$$ and R$$$ desirability. However, I have a much harder time trying to create R$$ neighbourhoods. It seems as soon as I try to make an area nice R$$ and R$$$ desirability jump to max. Basically in my experience R$$ desirability = R$$$ desirability for 99% of my city. I'm well aware of the trick of zoning no more than two tiles deep, but this only works in low density areas. I know I could also just do stuff like jack R$$$ tax rates, along with the "make historical" button or no kickout mod, but I'd like to be able to create medium/high density R$$ areas in a more organic way.
- 2 Replies
-
- 1
-
-
- residential
- r$$$
- (and 3 more)
-
Wealthy Sims in low-desirability areas & vice versa. Why?
The Angry Convert posted a topic in SimCity 4 General Discussion
I have a city where there are a lot of middle- and upper-class sims in areas with no services (schools, clinics etc), low desirability and land value. I also have a lot of low-income sims in areas with plenty of services, high desirability for the middle- and upper-class and high land value. These sims tend to live in a lot of formerly middle- and upper-class homes that were abandoned for other reasons (discussed in my previous topic in the link below here). It's been like this for about 5-10 in-game years I think. This city has no college or university, which is known for automatically "turning the whole city green". This city has however had quite equally high demand for all classes of residents recently. The population is about 48.000 (about 20.000 lower-class, 24.000 middle-class and 4.000 upper-class) and has about 16.000 commercial and 18.000 industry. It has no neighboring cities. It very recently lost thousands of lower-class sims for unknown reasons, and gained about half as many middle-class sims recently. No jobs disappeared however. How do I keep no-service areas predominantly low-income, and how do I keep the existing middle- and upper-class within high-service areas (since they're not leaving the city)? Maybe I just have to wait until the city becomes larger. Maybe that'll make people demand more services and such, and perhaps raise the crime rate city-wide and more so in no-service areas. The amount of crimes per month is about 16, which makes about 30 crimes per 100 residents. I considered that quite medium for a city this size. -
Absolutely no commercial desirability, all red
supergaga posted a topic in SC4 Bugs & Technical Issues
As you can see in pictures, every part of the map is dark red, for all five types of commercial buildings. I had this city for a long time and this happened suddenly, only on this city. Have anyone encountered problem like this? -
I-HT and CO$$$ issues with CAM (Desirability Thresholds)
LouisB3 posted a topic in SimCity 4 General Discussion
After playing SC4 on and off for the better part of a decade, I've decided to give the CAM a try. So far it seems pretty good even without installing high-stage lots - farming is now relevant, there are bug fixes and general improvements, etc. However, I'm having a hard time getting I-HT and CO$$$ lots to grow. I have everything that I would have thought would be sufficient - demand is enormous, there are plenty of well-educated residents nearby, desirability looks adequate (green) in the data view, water's provided, etc. It looks like the culprit may be that CAM's increased the desirability threshold of high-wealth developers so that they're extremely picky about where they grow, per page 12 of the CAM 2.1 manual and per this discussion. Problem is, RippleJet admitted in that discussion that a desirability threshold of 120 is almost impossible to achieve and therefore makes high-wealth development extremely difficult (this was in the context of CO$$$, but I originally noticed it in the context of I-HT, since my industrial zones were sitting undeveloped if I suppress dirty and manufacturing demand via taxation). That was back in 2011, but it looks like the 2016 CAM is still using those original values. Is it possible to modify or remove the increased desirability thresholds associated with the CAM? If not, what other workaround should I use to get high-wealth development - placing new parks everywhere every five months to get the "transient aura" effect? Edit: I should add, I'm posting this here rather than over at sc4devotion because I'm not sure how active that forum is - the CAM subforum has not had any posts since November. -
When the population was at 24-30,000 I had 6 recycling centers and 2 Waste Tech Plants, which kept my landfills bare. Garbage was not a problem. The population gets to around 37,000 and all of a sudden garbage shows up everywhere and the landfill is filling up like crazy. I wanted to see if plopping more garbage maintenance facilities would solve the problem, so I used a money cheat to get the funds to build a bunch of them, just to see what would happen. I even zoned for more landfill. Nothing changed, and the newly zoned landfill space filled with garbage quicker than the old. In total I have: 17 Garbage Disposal Shoots 10 Waste Tech Plants 4 Plasma Gasification Plants 16 Recycling Centers Here's what the Ministry of Garbage tells me. I queried some of my industrial buildings and if I’m reading the information correctly, the amount of garbage they are producing seems outrages. I wish I had taken a picture of the garbage graph to see when this started, but I don’t think that would even give me a clue, because I haven’t plopped anything special in this city that I haven’t plopped in another city. And the buildings with a query pictures have grown in other cities without producing this amount of garbage.
-
Hello! I've been building my "Montreal" for a while, I have about 350k inhabitants in several suburbs and 80k in this downtown tile. At an uncertain point my Mayor Rating dropped suddenly to -20, while all other indicators like Desirability, Land Value, Education and Health are in perfect order. Traffic had some weak points, so I upgraded to NAM32, increased the capacity and even switched to european mass transit usage. Now most of my french-thinking Canadians travel by bus, so I believe traffic congestion is no longer an issue. Commute time is about 16 minutes in average. So in my opinion it is a bug. I have lots of downloaded buildings, none with cheat-like effects. The few that increase MR a little are Sim Goober's churches. I tried to demolish practically everything in my city to see if the MR goes back to normal, but nothing helped. Nor did help cutting neighbor connection, planting a forest in CBD and creating a huge volcano. Is there anything left I missed before having to obliterate the city, CTD (crush the desktop) or uninstall most of the plugins?
-
Office desirability low everywhere, and parks & plazas are making it worse?
TwelveFloorsUp posted a topic in SimCity 4 General Discussion
I have a city with about 300,000 people, and cannot for the life of me get high wealth office to survive. I have extremely high demand for it, but extremely low desirability all over the city. Inexplicably, building parks and plazas seems to make it WORSE rather than better. They simply lower the desirability even more. The WORST thing is rewards. Any reward will absolutely destroy the CO$$$ desirability for tiles all around. When I noticed that, I moved all my reward buildings out of the city center, which did buy me a decade or two of green desirability. But it didn't take long before everything reverted back down to dull red. Clearly something is wrong. I have adequate police, fire, and education, and low pollution. I have an airport (although it has no customers for some reason, possibly related). I have a huge subway network using one of the older versions of road-top-mass-transit. I'm at a loss. Has anyone else experienced this? Perhaps inverting the desirability effects of rewards & parks is a known issue with a mod somewhere? Or is there a mod to override it? -
Version 1.0
7,938 Downloads
Dependencies for Desirability Increaser (Museum, found in education, Capacity 500) BSC MEGA Props - CP Vol01 BSC MEGA Props - DAE Vol01 BSC BAT PropsMattb325_Vol02 About the Desirability Increaser: Over 30 tiles, 100 desirability for all RCI will be offered. You earn 2500 from it, and it costs 500 to run as a museum. This might be considered a cheat, but I call it a high costing specialist art museum. Dependencies for the Car to Subway Transition (Capacity 75000 cars to subway and vice versa, found in Misc. Transit) NetworkAddonMod (Can be found on Simtropolis) About the Car to Subway lot: This lot utilises the NAM team's and Marrasts underpasses for realism. Thanks! If you have any Simgoober bus stops, extra statistics that are completely unrelated will show up, and it the query window will make it look like he made it, so PLEASE don't rename this lot. If you don't have Simgoober Bus stops you will just get default stats. Having Simgoober Bus stops makes no difference to this lot, it is purely optional. This lot converts car to subway. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES intersect this with a real subway unless you want to call it underground parking, or something like that. It connects the end tile to the road in front. It is not UDI enabled. Buses were not included due to cars magically turning into buses and vice versa. Please comment and rate! Extension Pack: With Avenue, onewayroad in and out, and street transitions for car. VERSION 2 LINKED! -
I have a quick question: I'm starting a new region with the SPAM installed, and read about it changing desirabiiity factors. So, if I play that region with SPAM, will the chances of me getting high-rises decrease? I understand that the agriculture demand is kept high so it will be for as long I want, but could a region with some towers be developed? Thanks, Guy
-
Version 1.0
9,210 Downloads
In the years I have spent playing SimCity there is one thing that has always annoyed me, add a few cars to any rural road and the surrounding farmland dilapidates. This has never seemed realistic to me. Many rural roads in places like the Greater Toronto Area are crammed with commuters driving to jobs in the city and yet farming continues unhindered... at least until developers arrive to build cul-du-sacs! Contrary to popular belief and common sense, in SimCity it's not just pollution that causes farmland to dilapidate, it's just the presence of traffic. Farm desirability decreases in direct relation to the amount of traffic passing by. It's the reverse of commercial service desirability. This little mod of mine removes traffic as a factor in farm desirability and allows realistic rural commuter sheds to be built. Farms will still dilapidate through pollution so a really excessive amount of traffic that causes high air pollution will still end up causing dilapidation, but it takes a lot and a player, if they're willing to pay, can always enact one or both of the anti-pollution ordinances. Included in this upload is a cam and non-cam version. Choose one and only one (delete the one that's not relevant from the plugins folder). This mod isn't compatible with any other mods that alter desirability parameters like, for example, PEG's SPAM Mod.- 33 Comments
- 67 Reviews
-
- 2
-
-
- farm
- agriculture
- (and 1 more)
-
I'm not a modder by any stretch, but I have tweaked a few lots for my own purposes from time to time. Found it necessary once I discovered many old bus stops consuming more electricity than most houses and offering 100 jobs in a 1x1 bus stop. And occasional other "nice things" that had unbalanced stats (usually not the creators' faults, I understand... nonetheless I'm left with the choice to either fix or discard them). Anyway, I've been looking for some way to finely control/influence where the rich build. Using taxes to keep them only in certain tiles... isn't granular enough. Denying water also prevents lower-wealth stage 4 and up; also no good. I suppose I could put other nasty NIMBY things, but... I'm trying at the same time to not to be a bastard to the less fortunate in my city. Then yesterday, it struck me, as I was driving through a particularly wealthy neighborhood, and I noticed the conspicuous lack of bus stops... "duh, rich people don't ride buses." Even in the rare case they do use mass transit... buses are pretty much out of the question, usually. So I'm thinking I want to use them to granularly control where in a city I want my rich people. I usually sprinkle my cities with bus stops anyway. And the people use them, some to get to work, others to get to other mass transit networks. Unfortunately the rich of course also build near them... but never use them. So... if I could tweak my bus stops to deliberately fend them off, then I can simply not put any bus stops where I want the rich neighborhoods to be. But I'm not sure which exemplar to fiddle with. My guess is, I must add the "Desirability Effect Values" exemplar. "Radius in cells, Max effect, min effect for each developer." But I'm not sure how really to add the values. How to use the tool, yes, but how many, or which ones I want to be non-zero to achieve my desired (or undesired, I suppose) effect. I don't want a bus stop that already does this, as I want to be able to use and tweak my own now and in the future (though if there IS one on STEX already... I'd love to see it as a reference, I suppose). Any help, please oh please? Or is this even possible in the first place?
-
Hy Is it possible to create an RCI zone just for $ ? for exemple a zone just for residential $ or just for commercial $$. thanks serge
