Revisiting Prop Pox and Prop Theory

[Wiimeiser 452]

On 18/01/2018 at 8:29 PM, jdenm8 said:

In theory it could happen to any type of subfile stored in the savefile, that stores overrideable objects, at decompression time.

Buildings, too? I assume it would happen if the buildings were glitched. I  don't have SC4 installed on this new PC yet but I have train traffic generators that turn out to be massive airport lots (most bigger than 16x16) and more recently one of the WMP Allotments got duplicated somehow, and I had another duplicate earlier. I think these lots might have identical IIDs, it appears the game reads the menu exemplars of one lot but the actual lot data of the other, at least for those giant airport lots in the train menu.

 

On the proper topic, it appears that the game reads some data twice and other data only once, hence the discrepancy. I've seen this happen in the Source engine, too.

[rsc204 21,865]

On 20/01/2018 at 3:11 AM, mertzigzag said:

An example I have, which annoys me to no end, is that whenever I newly plop one of the Maxis default City Halls, I get a random selection of very incorrect props on that lot that are replacing Maxis originals:

Common and well known issue, nothing related to Prop Pox in any way.

It's to do with how Maxis used Flora, which is a special type of prop that was only intended for use with Trees. These Flora items all have a Flora Family (similar to a Prop Family) listed and most MMPs started out using the Maxis ones as a template, so included the same property in them. 

The only place these Flora Families were used so far as I know, was on the City Hall lots, to randomly show one of the installed Flora (trees) upon them. This all works fine until either something too big to fit there or something unsuitable is included in the same family. Technically the fix is to modify the MMPs to remove this property, since it's really not needed or helpful. However, the quickest solution more practically speaking, would be to download the fix attached to this post (SC4D, registration required), which removes the Flora Families from all three city hall lots, preventing the problem.

[redfox85 659]

I tried a different idea to get the props to reappear. The DLL fixed the poxed city according to SC4save. I then used iLives to delete the prop file. Loaded the game - and all the props disappeared. However, the save file increased in size. Upon looking it up in SC4Save, indeed the game rebuilt the prop file - however it 0'd all the IDs, and I mean all of them (400000+...). So... what is enabling the game to rebuild the prop file but to then 0 out all the ID's?

[nycsc4 5,250]

Holy S***, it works.

Before:

I had gone through and replaced many of the affected lots so it's not as pronounced on this map as it should be.  But you can notice some of the empty gashes running north and south.

After:

(A lot of this city is plopped, hence the lack of density among the props.)

This is AMAZING!  Can't thank you enough for figuring this out.  I have several city tiles with the pox, this is incredible.  Give this guy all the Trixies.

[mattb325 28,890]

7 minutes ago, nycsc4 said:

Give this guy all the Trixies.

Indeed! And then make some more and keep giving them to him ad infinitum. I've never suffered prop pox, but seeing how quickly simmaster07 has advanced the community to a possible, and permanent fix is something to behold 

[nycsc4 5,250]

31 minutes ago, mattb325 said:

I've never suffered prop pox, but seeing how quickly simmaster07 has advanced the community to a possible, and permanent fix is something to behold 

Consider yourself lucky.  Probably the worst bug to affect the game.  Here's a bit more definitive example of a bad case of the pox:

Before, you can see the really big gashes here:

After:

Unreal.  Best day ever.  I thought I'd lost these cities for good.  Seems not to be the case so far.

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

From the initial conclusive reports, even if still "experimental" at this stage, what @simmaster07 has developed here is the fix of all fixes.

Mark it down everybody, because Friday 19th January 2018 will forever be heralded as a day of success in the SC4 community. A day the most fundamental and game-crippling bug was finally conquered. This isn't just a cause for celebration, but of immeasurable appreciation.

On behalf of everyone who's ever played SimCity 4...

Thank you.

[matias93 7,535]

Can we just create a permanent rank of Sim Master for Simmaster07? The situation is asking for it

[CorinaMarie 29,877]

6 minutes ago, matias93 said:

Can we just create a permanent rank of Sim Master for Simmaster07? The situation is asking for it

Done. Tho I don't know how to do the pretty colors.

[Propfam 2,302]

49 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Done. Tho I don't know how to do the pretty colors.

Can you use HTML on it? Try to use 

<span style="color: #F5BC66;">Sim Master</span>

Or, you add .simmaster class if not already added.

.simmaster {
  color: #F5BC66;
}

And use 

<span class="simmaster">Sim Master</span>

to add colored "Sim Master".

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

16 minutes ago, Chief ZDN said:

Can you use HTML on it?

Thanks for the suggestion.

But no, I'm afraid HTML is not an option for Member Titles (I've tested this). Adding or editing the existing CSS class is possible, but it'd need to be defined on a per-user basis. Otherwise all titles would inherit and display the same formatting.

However, another way forward is to use a CML profile field, which do allow custom formats to be rendered.

[Tarkus 6,933]

I've had the chance to test this out myself now, on the one definitively poxed city I had on had--the CBD tile of my Chemeketa region, which I've had since 2009, and has been the focal point of much of my CJ since.  The tile had shown the pox on the easternmost 20-24 tiles of the city tile (a large city tile), and SC4Save had diagnosed it as such. I had actually bulldozed all of the lots in the affected area, hoping that shrinking the prop subfile of my own accord would mitigate data loss for long enough to squeeze a last few CJ updates out of it before writing the city (and in effect, the entire region) off as a loss.

I am ecstatic to report that I can confirm the other very promising findings here.  I have rebuilt the affected portion of the poxed city tile, and after multiple saves, and further development elsewhere in the city that has grown the savefile, that the Chemeketa CBD tile is now pox free, as confirmed by SC4Save.  This file has effectively saved a region I've worked on for the better part of a decade.

Between this and also fixing the TE Lot/puzzle CTD that had plagued my other passion project (the NAM) for as long as anyone can remember--simmaster07, I can't thank you enough for your ongoing DLL efforts, which are all the more amazing in light of this latest breakthrough coming after the 15-year anniversary of the game's release.  I'm honestly at a loss of words to describe the magnitude of just how much good has come from this project, for so many people in our community. 

-Tarkus

[simmaster07 1,221]

Thanks for the feedback and kind words, everyone. I just fixed the experimental DLL leaking memory on every save — it was a small amount, maybe 1-2MB each time, but I wanted to fix it before marking this as stable. Given the feedback so far I've decided to mark this as stable now and upload a new version of SC4Fix to the STEX:

(If you're still using the experimental DLL, you're probably going to want to grab this one for the memory leak fix.)

We've certainly come a long way from April Fool's pranks 

[CorinaMarie 29,877]

17 minutes ago, simmaster07 said:

We've certainly come a long way from April Fool's pranks 

Indeed we (you) have!

This is absolutely fantastic. Great work here!

[Andreas Roth 617]

Wow, this is just amazing! Fortunately, I never suffered from the prop pox myself, but it has been one of the biggest obstacles in the history of SC4 alright. Surely one of the best birthday presents ever!

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Oh my gosh, this is so amazing! To think how much trouble that annoying bug has caused... not only to the people directly affecting it, but also to the SC4 community as a whole (for those of you who weren't present back then, or not involved: it wasn't pretty!) And now it's gone, and people can restore their cities and their year-long work on them.

Now there's only one wish left:

Give this man the game's source code!

[Tyberius06 12,254]

Well I guess after fixing the two most game-breaking things of this wonderfull game, he deserves more than a personal RANK... We could all submit @simmaster07 for Member of the Month too. Or Member of the Year? I'm certainly going to.

Thank you again!

- Tyberius

[_Michael 2,681]

In my recent absence from the site, I've completely missed this. It was incredible when you solved CTD with puzzle pieces (as a tram-aholic this was game changing), and this is another major game changer. The community will forever be indebted to you!

[CorinaMarie 29,877]

4 hours ago, Tyberius06 said:

We could all submit @simmaster07 for Member of the Month too. Or Member of the Year? I'm certainly going to.

No peeking cause this stuff is usually secret:

Spoiler

And for Member of the Year, that sounds like a good Trixie award. Maybe something like Most Important Discovery/Innovation 2018.

[Prophet42 1,503]

I just wanted to jump in and give @simmaster07 a huge thanks to fixing the prop pox issue.  Your contribution to the community is immeasurable and greatly appreciated!!  Congratulations on this monumental achievment!!!

[feyss 1,981]

It feels like you have found a cure to cancer... I didn't understand much, but great job and thank you for this!

[redfox85 659]

Yeah this is a huge plus ! I can now fill large tiles with 1x1 lots and never have a fear of pox striking again.

[Haljackey 17,385]

WHOA

It works! Why was I skeptical?

90% poxed city

Before

After

Before:

After:

While it's not 100%, I can easily go about fixing the remaining poxed stuff. All of these walls looked like the poxed ones before, for example.

I agree with that title. Sim Master.

@simmaster07

I cannot express my happiness in text, that's how crazy this is. Here's some emojis

 

Haha, #Simcity4in2018 #Simcity44life

[CaptCity 4,911]

As I mentioned in Bap's topic those many years ago, the dedication and enthusiasm of the members of this community continue to overwhelm me. We have players who pass along their knowledge and suggestions. We have the custom content makers who share their very imaginative and game-changing creations. And we have those who dedicate themselves to doing something about those things that have been labeled 'things that can't be done.' simmaster07, you re definitely a member of the group at the pinnacle of that list. While the 'pox' may have affected relatively few,  you deserve the appreciation of us all.

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

14 hours ago, simmaster07 said:

We've certainly come a long way from April Fool's pranks

To hopefully point prospective downloaders in the right direction, I've made a small amendment...

----------

Once more, this is a truly outstanding feat you've accomplished here. Finding a cure to an 'unsolvable' issue which has plagued many mayors from around the world, either through fear or from first hand experiences. Looking ahead to a brighter future, those qualms can now be safely swept aside. For the DLL to not only function as a protection barrier, but even reviving affected cities from the depths of despair. Wow! Right there, it makes your achievement all the more remarkable. A miracle of innovation.

If there's one way to sum this up...

Never rule out the impossible. Because unless practically impossible, through steadfast fortitude, anything is possible.
Especially in a 15 year old city-building classic called SimCity 4.

[CorinaMarie 29,877]

Btw, has anyone with dual citizenship posted a linky to this over on SC4Devotion?

[Tyberius06 12,254]

Yepp, as I know Alex (Tarkus) posted about this the Prop Pox topic over at SC4.

 

[The British Sausage 5,449]

18 hours ago, simmaster07 said:

Thanks for the feedback and kind words, everyone. I just fixed the experimental DLL leaking memory on every save — it was a small amount, maybe 1-2MB each time, but I wanted to fix it before marking this as stable. Given the feedback so far I've decided to mark this as stable now and upload a new version of SC4Fix to the STEX:

(If you're still using the experimental DLL, you're probably going to want to grab this one for the memory leak fix.)

We've certainly come a long way from April Fool's pranks 

You can thank me for that April Fool's prank...

I whispered sweet evils into Mandelsoft's ear...

 

And also... NICE ONE! You solved prop pox! I've had some battles with prop pox and I have gone to some insane lengths to avoid it...

[Eggman121 1,052]

@simmaster07 This will go down in history as the best cure for SimCity 4! I would be surprised if anyone can rival this work. This definitely outranks any of the work I have done being an active developer of the NAM team and all.

I think the whole community appreciates the effort you have put into these finds for SC4. I use to dread CTD's and Pox but you have definitely saved heartache of many people.

We really can't thank you enough to bring us a solution for this pox problem

-eggman121 (NAM Team Member)

[monkeywater 910]

On 1/19/2018 at 8:01 AM, simmaster07 said:

 will probably cause memory to leak when you save the game.

huh?