MGB BATs

[AndisArt 2,066]

Cool to see you create different props for your building! Always better to have this kind of variation. You could add also maybe posters or sign stands to each version to make the difference more prominent and obvious.

Re: Saturation, yea it could use a tad toning down, the red and yellow stick a bit out, but it's not bad I think. Still should be adjusted.

About white, like you said madhatter106, nothing is really truly white in reality. Even white snow in the sun doesnt reach the highest level of white that is possible on the computer. If you use the 255 value ladder then I would work with values around 200-220 for whites. Values of 255 or close will result in an articifical look. It's a bit like that with colors, in reality everything is less saturated and a bit greyed more than we think and also white and black are more in the grey area.

[pclark06 11,795]

11 hours ago, andisart said:

Re: Saturation, yea it could use a tad toning down, the red and yellow stick a bit out, but it's not bad I think. Still should be adjusted.

About white, like you said madhatter106, nothing is really truly white in reality. Even white snow in the sun doesnt reach the highest level of white that is possible on the computer. If you use the 255 value ladder then I would work with values around 200-220 for whites. Values of 255 or close will result in an articifical look. It's a bit like that with colors, in reality everything is less saturated and a bit greyed more than we think and also white and black are more in the grey area.

Everything looks way better now. It's certainly a new experience for me, but one that is useful. In terms of signage props, that's not up to me, lol

(Latest version: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lt0y8wpmevfkew9/US Conv Signs v3.zip?dl=0)

First two pics are a before and after

[rsc204 21,806]

MGB is back in BAT

Still some work to do here, especially in regards to textures. But a series of mid-rise residential flats is the plan.

(top left): for reference it's next to one of Cal's Windsor Quays buildings.

[matias93 7,535]

Great concept! While I find the textures are very good (if maybe a bit too grainy), an idea would be to consider a high-rise version of the building too; why? Because they look very similar to some residential towers close to my home and I couldn't avoid noting the similitude. Also, that expands the lotting possibilities!

[JP Schriefer 5,590]

Beautiful model!

[rsc204 21,806]

11 minutes ago, JP Schriefer said:

Beautiful model!

Can't take credit for that...

I was hoping someone might notice it's origins, but I'll spoil the surprise, lest anyone assume I made it.

A few tweaks (3-4 hours) and I have it now in 3DS Max, hence the superior quality.

18 minutes ago, matias93 said:

an idea would be to consider a high-rise version of the building too

Next stop, removing all but the bottom two floors. The 1st floor will then be made into an array, so I can make taller variants of it. In case you don't know, an array is where you can copy a portion or segment of a model many times over. It saves messing around making each storey manually, 3DS max simply creates as many as I tell it too.

18 minutes ago, matias93 said:

While I find the textures are very good (if maybe a bit too grainy)

Same textures from my Convenience Store model, but here they don't work as well, I think I'll brighten up the brickwork a little. Yes it's a little dingy, but bear in mind too, here in Europe we don't have beautiful bright sunshine all day long. So I prefer things less bright than some modellers go for.

All the windows are pretty much placeholders, they need creation from scratch. Same with the balcony area and the main entrance, all needs re-doing. But the basics are there for something really useable I think.

[kingofsimcity 5,739]

Lovely looking apartment building! This building reminded me of an old BAT...

EDIT: I knew it!

 

  Edited March 6, 2017 by kingofsimcity  
took too long to post

[Thin White Duke 4,072]

Hang on a second. This is a rehash of JaWood's Aspen Village condominiums!

edit: Turns out there were tow of us who noticed, but didn't post quick enough.

[Manuel-ito 322]

Those apartments look beautiful indeed! I was about to say that it reminded me of another BAT on the STEX, then I saw the traffic jam ahead

[rsc204 21,806]

Brightened up the textures, it's better but I'm not totally happy. Balconies are mostly in place now, as is first draft of the nitelighting. Using a new technique for the first time here, but I don't want to spend months on this model, so I may tweak it further, or I may not. Actually I'm pretty happy with them, although they lack detail up close, it gets the job done.

Just the front entrance to do now, not entirely sure how I'll handle that. But I guess I might just go for some simple doors.

[gutterclub 2,729]

Great work here, how did you bring the model from Gmax to Max? Ive seen a few different methods..

[DavidDHetzel 1,816]

Wow, I'd never have guessed this is an update of that model.

@rsc204, keep up the work! There's been very little original suburban content lately and what you got here will help change that. I really hope you continue making suburban buildings.

[rsc204 21,806]

17 hours ago, gutterclub said:

how did you bring the model from Gmax to Max?

FFG - Forward from Gmax, found here.

[rsc204 21,806]

Latest Update, 3/4/5 Storey Variations:

Thinking about 6, 8, 10. Any higher might not look right, but I'll see where this goes. After that some colour and angled variants. This should make quite a flexible pack when done. Now I start to wonder, how on earth will I lot all these? Anyone more skilled in that discipline fancy a collaboration?

[matias93 7,535]

Wow, that's a great trick!

As I said, even to 12 it would look good, but I understand that it would imply much more models in the end.

And about the lotting, I guess your approach with the RDP starters is the right one: to release some easy teaser and to let specialist lotters to do the most work.

[rsc204 21,806]

Actually I'm quite happy to go mad with the modelling, the trick is really quite simple though.

The 3/5 Storey variants were a bit tricky, since the central-windows don't line up so good, but from 6 stories upwards it's a piece of cake (+2 stories at a time). Two storeys in the middle can be copied and moved upwards using the array tool.

• I grab the roof/top floor, move it up by the size of the number of floors I wish to add.
• Run the array tool for the number of new floors, to copy a mid-section 2 floors at a time.
• A few objects need manually resizing. Guttering, internal walls and the LOD, but it's 1-2m work tops.

Here's a 14-Storey model I made to see how high these can go without looking odd. I'm not sure the roof looks right anymore?

What do you think, still usable? I'm happy to make loads of them personally, because it's so quick and easy to do.

16 minutes ago, matias93 said:

And about the lotting, I guess your approach with the RDP starters is the right one: to release some easy teaser and to let specialist lotters to do the most work.

Works for me I guess. That's really the issue with making lots of models, I don't want a quick project to end up with 6 months of lotting work. Too many things outstanding, this was just to scratch an itch I had to model something.

[Ceafus 88 1,794]

To me the roof does look kind of funky on it being that tall, maybe if you chopped a few stories off then it would look a little more proportional?

Overall, I really like the idea you have come up with using these, and you have executed it really well!

[jaredh 195]

Sloped roof lines (without some sort of direct access) are out of code usually at higher than 4 stories.

It becomes an access issue (too high for ladders), a safety issue (nobody will climb on it without safety gear), and a fire issue (too high to apply water to by the FD)

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Making that building higher is kind of problematic because that type of facade is very much associated with wood framed apartment complexes. If you changed the vinyl siding to concrete or metal panels or even brick it would look more plausible. 

For the roof, to have that kind of domestic looking pitched roof it would probably be a metal mansard roof, with the upper part of the mansard roof actually being a flat roof. Like these buildings by SimFox. 

 

Of course doing all of this would turn it into a new BAT project instead of just some bonus versions. 

[jaredh 195]

Yeah, I didn't even think about the wooden frame implications....I'm sure fire code doesn't allow that above 4-5 stories either (let alone it not being able to hold the weight).

 

Those roofs are the type that I've seen that have slopes at height.  Still flat on top.

[mattb325 28,880]

I like the re-working of these condos. Very nice!

As for discussions on building code and wood framing or even pitched roofing...well that varies not just from country to country but from state to state within a country.

A super-quick google search gave me many examples of 6+ story wooden framed apartments in Los Angeles.

One paper is here: http://www.woodworks.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Paper_383.pdf

It also has a lot of imagery and buildings higher than 6 floors are giving completely pitched roofing and very domestic looking wall materials. If I were to take Australia as an example, we would use steel frames in taller buildings but they would be given domestic cladding options (wood & vinyl siding aren't popular here, but fibre-cement products are) but they would certainly have pitched roofing up to about 10 floors: probably a flat roof after that. The point is, that aesthetics and climate vary from place to place and you are making this bat to fit in with british sensibilities, so I would look to new builds in the UK for inspiration first to at least get a feel for the styles employed 

My only advice is to scale the building vertically (at least 5-10%): in the first picture you have it next to one of CAL's UK buildings and it is quite a bit smaller than his work

[rsc204 21,806]

Hmm... Well in some ways a bit of artistic licence will be employed, since I'm sticking with the 3-6 storey variants as they are for the time being. I'm really looking to fill some gaps for Med Density residential in my game and such generic flats are perfect for that.

However, making a new roof is not out of the question, since the rest of the tower does seem to hold up when scaled higher. I'm not hugely into making high-rise buildings, but if I can re-use these without huge effort, I'm willing to do so.

35 minutes ago, Jasoncw said:

If you changed the vinyl siding to concrete or metal panels or even brick it would look more plausible. 

'tis Brick m'lord... but at this scale you can't see the bricks I suppose? But in essence they are slightly modified variants of the brick textures used in a previous BAT.

For the moment, I've moved on to some colour variants, since I don't want to get bogged down worrying about high rises. What do you think of these potential options?

I felt pastel colours work well for such housing. I was going to keep with R$$ for the brick version and maybe R$ for these plaster/coloured ones as that's more associated with social housing.

7 minutes ago, mattb325 said:

My only advice is to scale the building vertically (at least 5-10%): in the first picture you have it next to one of CAL's UK buildings and it is quite a bit smaller than his work

Good point, I hadn't paid too much attention to this, having not made the initial model, but I think you are right to point it out.

8 minutes ago, mattb325 said:

The point is, that aesthetics and climate vary from place to place and you are making this bat to fit in with british sensibilities, so I would look to new builds in the UK for inspiration first to at least get a feel for the styles employed 

Yes and no. I felt these were generic enough to fit in almost anywhere. I've seen similar around here (Germany) and back home (UK). But when you are re-using an existing model, it's normal that I wouldn't have a specific building in mind that it's based upon. As such, I'm just looking for something that works in game and can be flexible. Realism is something I go for, but in this case, it's just a nice building that benefits from a paint job and some alterations.

[Ceafus 88 1,794]

Oh yes, the pastel colors work so much better for this style of housing! As well as the brick variants mixed in, it gives it a sense of variety for those looking for it.

14 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

'tis Brick m'lord... but at this scale you can't see the bricks I suppose? But in essence they are slightly modified variants of the brick textures used in a previous BAT.

For the moment, I've moved on to some colour variants, since I don't want to get bogged down worrying about high rises. What do you think of these potential options?

You might try a new brick texture or adjusting the UWV of the one you are using. Maybe a possible bump map? Something to make them more prominent.

[metasmurf 705]

I think the colour variations look good. A suggestion on another: late 80's/90's brick as seen here: https://goo.gl/maps/tgyTSmAdiqj

You could make a roof texture variation with red brick. This is the common type in my country for these sort of apartments, see image

[rsc204 21,806]

2 hours ago, Ceafus 88 said:

You might try a new brick texture or adjusting the UWV of the one you are using. Maybe a possible bump map? Something to make them more prominent.

The thing is, I wrestled with this problem before. Getting the bricks to stand out, without making them look ridiculously out of scale is very difficult with an SD model. It's hard too for a HD model, but the added detail at zoom 6 IMO makes it worthwhile. I've tried expanding the brick size (UV) by 25% & 50%, plus adding a bump map, but I'm not really confident that looks better. Ultimately the brickwork is there, you just can see it in the perspective of the game. Rendered one with a red roof for you @metasmurf. Maybe not so bright as the example, but it's a first draft.

Note also these have been re-scaled by 10% on the z-axis. I'm also going to fiddle with the LODs a bit so props can be placed into the nooks.

[matias93 7,535]

4 hours ago, mattb325 said:

I like the re-working of these condos. Very nice!

As for discussions on building code and wood framing or even pitched roofing...well that varies not just from country to country but from state to state within a country.

A super-quick google search gave me many examples of 6+ story wooden framed apartments in Los Angeles.

One paper is here: http://www.woodworks.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Paper_383.pdf

It also has a lot of imagery and buildings higher than 6 floors are giving completely pitched roofing and very domestic looking wall materials. If I were to take Australia as an example, we would use steel frames in taller buildings but they would be given domestic cladding options (wood & vinyl siding aren't popular here, but fibre-cement products are) but they would certainly have pitched roofing up to about 10 floors: probably a flat roof after that. The point is, that aesthetics and climate vary from place to place and you are making this bat to fit in with british sensibilities, so I would look to new builds in the UK for inspiration first to at least get a feel for the styles employed 

My only advice is to scale the building vertically (at least 5-10%): in the first picture you have it next to one of CAL's UK buildings and it is quite a bit smaller than his work

1. There it went my candidacy for the "We miss you, please come back" trixie...

2. Yup, there is a lot of variety on building regulations, and most generally, if something cannot burn, you shouldn't worry about being able to put down a fire on it. More specifically, the pitched roofs of the buildings (11 storeys high) I linked before are 100% steel, both the shingles and the frame structure, so the worst thing that would happen is that they could collapse with the fire, and to stay up there.

3. And definitely the aesthetic factor is the preponderant one here, people just prefer pitched roofs because they find them 'more home-y' than flat ones. It's simply a way to sell apartments to people that want to buy suburban houses.

4 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Hmm... Well in some ways a bit of artistic licence will be employed, since I'm sticking with the 3-6 storey variants as they are for the time being. I'm really looking to fill some gaps for Med Density residential in my game and such generic flats are perfect for that.

However, making a new roof is not out of the question, since the rest of the tower does seem to hold up when scaled higher. I'm not hugely into making high-rise buildings, but if I can re-use these without huge effort, I'm willing to do so.

'tis Brick m'lord... but at this scale you can't see the bricks I suppose? But in essence they are slightly modified variants of the brick textures used in a previous BAT.

For the moment, I've moved on to some colour variants, since I don't want to get bogged down worrying about high rises. What do you think of these potential options?

[blocks with colours]

I felt pastel colours work well for such housing. I was going to keep with R$$ for the brick version and maybe R$ for these plaster/coloured ones as that's more associated with social housing.

Good point, I hadn't paid too much attention to this, having not made the initial model, but I think you are right to point it out.

Yes and no. I felt these were generic enough to fit in almost anywhere. I've seen similar around here (Germany) and back home (UK). But when you are re-using an existing model, it's normal that I wouldn't have a specific building in mind that it's based upon. As such, I'm just looking for something that works in game and can be flexible. Realism is something I go for, but in this case, it's just a nice building that benefits from a paint job and some alterations.

4. With the black roof, I find the red and blue schemes look better, but for the green and yellow it would be better a red, or even terracotta roof colour (kudos to metasmurf for the synchro thinking!). But if the idea is to represent social housing, maybe metal shingles could be the most adequate option (and then all colours are allowed, including brilliant orange, electric blue and yellow, diapers' envelope with polar bear, or the classical white and colonial red)

5. Nevertheless, and while I like your idea of a very generic style, maybe some combinations are definitely out of question for a given model; most of what I've linked won't match with this building, and is only for future reference. In this case, you have done more than enough for a couple of complete releases, everything else is added value but  not being able to deliver it shouldn't move you to scrap this work.

  Edited March 10, 2017 by matias93  
easier to distinguish

[JP Schriefer 5,590]

I really like those colours variations! You're doing a great job

[Jasoncw 11,840]

The way that bump maps work, they're bad for BATing because of how low resolution the game is and how fine the detail is. 

To check how effective your bump map is, go to your material and scroll down to the area that is titled "General Maps" and uncheck the Diffuse map, and rerender it. The texture won't render any more (because you just disabled it) but the bump map still will. 

More than likely what you'll see is a garbled mess. The main place to use bump maps is for simulating the bulges in glass.

 

To make the bricks show up you can actually keep the bricks at real life scale and they can still show up. Or you can do them at twice scale. The problem with your texture is that the bricks are all basically the same color, and the brick pattern is defined by the grey mortar between the bricks. But the mortar is so thin that it's never going to show up in the render. 

They way I frequently make brick is by using a Tiles map. So instead of using a bitmap and loading a brick texture, select Tiles instead of Bitmap. Look through all of the settings in the Tiles map. Most of them are self explanatory but you can also look up what everything is online. When using tiles to make a brick texture, I generally recommend eliminating the mortar/grout because it's never visible anyway and just makes things harder to see. The brick pattern will actually be coming from the Color Variance. This means that the bricks will no longer have a uniform color, which is sometimes inaccurate but that's the compromise we make. But it doesn't always take much to make something that gives the impression of bring brick. 

The bricks on Oakland Tribune are real size. I think Charlotte Apartments are real size too although they might be slightly bigger I don't remember.

Exaggerating the size of the brick also works but I'd avoid it for this building because there are a lot of small fine details in the model and big bricks will just look really out of scale. 

'tis Brick m'lord... but at this scale you can't see the bricks I suppose? But in essence they are slightly modified variants of the brick textures used in a previous BAT.

Another problem, on our side of things at least, is that the images you're posting have a lot of compression so it's hard to see these subtle details. It was vinyl siding before lol 

[MissVanleider 1,850]

I'm glad they are brick. They remind me an awful lot of these buildings, although yours will probably sit well in a variety of locales

[rsc204 21,806]

Based on all the feedback, I've made a few tweaks here and there. But this is the basic set of models. I've still got to render the rotated variants for the 4-6 storey versions. I'll move on to the colour-variants thereafter.