MGB BATs

[rsc204 21,805]

I've been busy making a number of things using SC4BAT and recently moved to 3DS Max because I suppose I should learn it sooner or later if I'm serious about making stuff. I've already shown off the Rail Depot which is progressing well, but I've a few problems to iron out still.

Here's another model I'm close to finalising, it's a small supermarket/shop that I used to frequent:

It's an M&S Simply Foods these days, but the actual building was converted from a TGI Fridays restaurant. As such, I intend to convert the model to be a restaurant and also a shop. For the shop at least, I'm hoping to make a couple different brands and maybe move some of the features about so the model is more flexible.

Note the phone box in the picture? I've always wanted to see a KX100 BT Phonebox in SC4. If you are not from the UK, you might think we use the Red phone boxes (K7) that are commonly associated with the UK. The reality is, since the mid 80's these have been massively phased out. Ironically I see more Red boxes around Continental Europe than I ever do back home.

Here are some on a lot with other SC4 phone boxes for comparison. The red ones are Bombardiere's fantastic K7 boxes. Then the smaller gray/silver box is from Girafe, the white one is from Porkie. I've based my scale on the first, which I think fits the game, sadly all the wonderful detail of the phone box is totally lost when rendering such a small object, even in HD:

[Bombardiere 591]

A very good start indeed. The roof need more detail however. It is very bland and in SC4 we spent most of our time look at the roof.You need cutters, roof ridges and may be some vents.

That parking lot looks very good. Is it your own textures?

 

I was in a process of doing a metal phone box, but I dropt it as it was too modern. By the way, I cheated with my red phone box. I was going to make a glass (transparent) windows and detail inside the box, but wasn't happy with the result. It didn't show well in render. So I ended up with using a picture of the interior of a random phone box and slap it on a retangle object just behing the door frame. My box is also oversized. at least 25 % if I remember correctly. Thus it fitted in to the game better and with all those tall cims.

 

[Harry's Place 918]

Outstanding start! Great lot! Indeed the roof needs a little more work, and i also sugest to put some cars in the paking lot. 

[rsc204 21,805]

... roof needs a little more work, and i also sugest to put some cars in the paking lot. 

Actually the parking lot has timed props from SHK's parking pack, only they were not showing on the lot when I took the screenshot.

The textures are from SHK's pack too, I didn't make them.

As for the roof, I do plan on adding a few details, but the bulk of it will remain bare. This is because I need to be able to place props on top of the roof for signage. That way I can have a prop family taking care of changing the branding to make the lot more flexible. If what I've got in mind works, I'm sure things will be much better once they are in place.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Ah, a generic store building you can use for various brands by adding the corresponding brand props? Smart move - I like.

[dlsni 156]

may i suggest that you don't use maxis flora on your lot? it really takes away from what is looking like a good lot+building in the making imo

[Belfastsocrates 1,752]

YAY!

I'm very pleased you have moved to BAT'ing and I'm really looking forward to seeing your work!

My joy is partly selfish as I love that someone is creating things like an M&S Simply Food store, I've been craving such creations given the heavy British influence in Perseus and presence of British stores/brands. 

I would echo the Maxis flora comment but I appreciate this is still early stages. I would change the light poles in the car park to something more modern or utilitarian, some of the LRM props are excellent and I've used them for car parks and similar lots. 

[Harry's Place 918]

mattb has some amazing flora props

[rsc204 21,805]

I have a large 9 tile gap I'd like to span with a pedestrian bridge. Since nothing suitable exists (to my knowledge), I thought I'd have a go a batting one:

Perhaps now is a good time to explain a bit of the philosophy I try to use when making stuff. So in this instance the bridge will span 9 tiles and needs to be 10m on the embankment and at ground level on the other side (park). But that's a pretty unusual scenario. I've therefore modelled the bridge so I can make a few other crossings later if all works out. For example to cross a 4-5 tile gap with or without the height difference.

The main problem I'm running into right now is how to finish off the side with the 10m height differential. I made the first bridge (top) very quickly using a downloaded model just to see how things looked before delving into this. The first thing I noticed is that a normal ramp just doesn't seem to fit. I didn't want to make the bridge any longer, so a spiral ramp seemed a logical choice. I'm really not happy with how this is turning out in 3DS Max though. Any suggestions on this?

Lastly, if the ramp is in place properly, what's the best way of making the handrails conform to the slope/bend of the spiral? I certainly wouldn't want to model each segment adjusting the angles manually. I've checked a few videos on Lofts, since this seems to be what I'm after. However I can't select the loft option in Compound Objects. Can someone perhaps enlighten me a little as to how to go about this please?

[Girafe 1,729]

I am not a good modeler. But I think you can create the shape of selection in poly menu (select the external edges of your ramp)and then make it rectangular in spline editable menu

[Belfastsocrates 1,752]

I can't help with the technical query but I'm thrilled your making things like this! Would you consider a ped/cycle bridge that doesn't include the ramp for a future project? Long ped bridges is something we sorely lack in-game.

[rsc204 21,805]

Thanks Girafe for pointing me in the right direction :).

Obviously there is some texture work to do, but overall I'm happy enough with it. I might add some lighting. I'm also wondering about adjusting the LODs to allow ped/cycle props on the bridge. That said the bridge is an offset prop so it fits on a 1x1 lot. So to do this said props would need offsetting too.

As for variations, I can repurpose it as an 8-Tile long 10m high bridge. But what sizes/heights would be useful to others?

[Belfastsocrates 1,752]

That looks rather smart! I think some simple lighting would finish it nicely. Offset cycle props would look excellent as long as it wouldn't involve too much work or frustration on your behalf. 

As for variation, I think 8-tile long version would work for most people. I'm unsure about height though. I'd use it primarily to cross ploppable water or to bridge two river banks, not sure what height that would be for me or most poeple.

  Edited October 20, 2015 by Belfastsocrates  

[rsc204 21,805]

I might have to think again re: lighting. I seem to recall that nitelights don't work with certain offsets, i.e. where a small amount of the prop actually sits upon the lot itself. I've modded the bridge so that it's on a 1x1 lot that attaches to the embankment and overhangs from there. No matter what I do I can not get the nitelighting to show.

As a test I placed the bridge on a 1x10 lot instead. Now the nitelites show without problem.

This presents somewhat of a problem, since I really don't think it works on a 9x1 lot. Yes I could use extenders or lot the water into place. But as a flexible lot for others to make use of, the offset made so much more sense. Any ideas? Otherwise it'll just have to be as-is since this is a game limitation I can't work around it.

[Belfastsocrates 1,752]

That's a shame, the lights look good. I'd keep it as a 1x1 lot personally, allows for much greater flexibility and use.

[SimCoug 5,972]

Overhanging props will lose night lights if they extend too far beyond the lot footprint.  This may or may not work, but what if you make the bridge prop bounding box say 1x1x1 and offset the prop so that the entire bounding box sits inside the lot?  It may still lose nightlights, but it's worth a shot. I can't remember if it was the actual prop that can't go beyond the lot, or if it was just the bounding box.

[rsc204 21,805]

Overhanging props will lose night lights if they extend too far beyond the lot footprint.  This may or may not work, but what if you make the bridge prop bounding box say 1x1x1 and offset the prop so that the entire bounding box sits inside the lot?  It may still lose nightlights, but it's worth a shot. I can't remember if it was the actual prop that can't go beyond the lot, or if it was just the bounding box.

I've already altered the bounding box to fit within a 16x16 footprint, so I don't think that will do it. I'll leave the nightlights on any bridges I render, but unless they're re-lotted with whatever is under the bridge the lights aren't going to work.

[SimCoug 5,972]

Yeah, I think that's just one of those game limitations - bummer.  Have you tried to see what happens if you make it a building instead of a prop... say a bus station or something?  Probably won't make a difference, but it's worth a shot.

While we are on bridges... I always thought it would be cool if somebody made a set of pedestrian sky bridge props that could be used between buildings.  You see them all over downtowns... just a thought.  You could probably lot them like rtmt bus stations and just plop them as a street... Most building LODs would cut off any excess bridge overhang, so I think they would fit in pretty seamlessly.

This sort of thing:

[Belfastsocrates 1,752]

While we are on bridges... I always thought it would be cool if somebody made a set of pedestrian sky bridge props that could be used between buildings.  You see them all over downtowns... just a thought.  You could probably lot them like rtmt bus stations and just plop them as a street... Most building LODs would cut off any excess bridge overhang, so I think they would fit in pretty seamlessly.

Something like this?

https://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/24129-skywalk-pack/

[rsc204 21,805]

On 21/10/2015 at 5:54 PM, SimCoug said:

Yeah, I think that's just one of those game limitations - bummer.  Have you tried to see what happens if you make it a building instead of a prop... say a bus station or something?  Probably won't make a difference, but it's worth a shot.

While we are on bridges... I always thought it would be cool if somebody made a set of pedestrian sky bridge props that could be used between buildings.  You see them all over downtowns... just a thought.  You could probably lot them like rtmt bus stations and just plop them as a street... Most building LODs would cut off any excess bridge overhang, so I think they would fit in pretty seamlessly.

I'll give it a go as a building *fingers crossed*

Bridges are certainly a gap that needs filling. The one you've shown is probably a bit too nice, I'm thinking big steel things. That said in the UK at least I find bridges/subways are less commonly built recently, a chance to stop cars at every possibility is too good to miss, so they use pedestrian crossings everywhere. I used to work night shifts in the centre and finish work at 7am on Saturdays/Sundays. The 2mile commute back could take 15-25m depending on traffic lights. Some days I just couldn't take any more reds on literally empty roads and just drove through them to keep moving.

BTW, have you checked out these pedbridges from the Jap NAM Facelift mod:

They replace the original NAM Pedmall Bridges so are proper puzzle pieces. There is a prop family too, so if I were to make some new bridges, I'd like to add them that way I think.

Making some progress on an override for the TiR ramps too. I've got to tidy up the model, but just making a model fit LODs from an existing model is quite the challenge, I'm pleased it's working for the most part. Credit to Ron for the other two, he helped me with these last year.

[rsc204 21,805]

Yeah, I think that's just one of those game limitations - bummer.  Have you tried to see what happens if you make it a building instead of a prop... say a bus station or something?  Probably won't make a difference, but it's worth a shot.

This works - thank you. I originally went that route, but switched to a prop as a building is harder to mod to work. After mucking about offsetting it the only problem that remains is the stupid building foundation I need to remove.

[weixc812 509]

I'll be more than happy if we can have more eyecandy bridges of this kind!

Please keep the great work.

[rsc204 21,805]

So with the pedestrian bridges out of the way, I've not opened 3DS Max for a while. It's clear out month for me, so to start I finished off the rail depot models I was working on.

There are 6 separate models. 2 can be used standalone, whilst the other 4 are intended for creating a modular length depot. I will create optional timed props to switch between the open/closed doors too.

I've also made the necessary custom GLR textures to match up with the depot. I need to create some for rail and possibly HSR also. The intention is to create a prop pack for lotters, but I will include a few basic lots to get everyone started.

The models have been rendered with three different options:

• HD - DarkNite
• HD - MaxisNite
• SD - MaxisNite

Users will be able to switch between these options by swapping DAT files.

[cmdp123789 710]

Loving it! I mentioned this in the other thread, something exciting and that I have been looking for lately! Thanks for making these.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

This is great stuff, especially because of the modular setup! Personally, I'd go for SD DarkNite, but since rail depots won't be used in every city tile all over, I guess I can settle for HD as an exception.

A modular and absolutely generic set like this for train stations would be superb to have, too... think of open platforms, platforms with roof, and... well, actually you wouldn't even need that much more. Stairs/elevators leading to an underground passage could be modeled into (some of) the platforms and would eliminate the need for overpass lots. Maybe a glass roof spanning two tracks that could be combined to a terminal of any length/track number? I see the possibility to create anything from a two-track suburb stop without roof through a town station with four to six tracks and simple (partial) platform roofs up to a large city station with many tracks under a large glass roof, with open platforms extending beyond that - all with a set composed of very few models (3 as a minimum). The most difficult aspect would be the transit-enabling part - what to enable, what to leave as eye candy? After all, we cannot plop TE lots next to another. Oh, I'm rambling again...

Back to topic, I like your approach for the release! Releasing only a prop pack might cause a long delay until lots are uploaded to the STEX, and offering only some fixed lots may keep other lotters from using your models for their own lots. By offering a few starter lots alongside the prop pack, you give all players a full-blown basic set that can be used to great effect, and lotters will find a fully prepared resource kit for their own endeavours. Perfect!

[rsc204 21,805]

On 04/01/2016 at 0:41 PM, T Wrecks said:

This is great stuff, especially because of the modular setup! Personally, I'd go for SD DarkNite, but since rail depots won't be used in every city tile all over, I guess I can settle for HD as an exception.

I feared someone would want SD DN too... I may think about rendering those as well. I was exhausted from rendering 6 models in 3 variants yesterday, but today it doesn't seem like a big deal.

Quote

A modular and absolutely generic set like this for train stations would be superb to have, too...

Please ramble, the rail depot came from such ramblings :). Actually this is something I've been thinking about for a while. Am I correct that you mentioned OpenTTD sometime, perhaps you came across the modular stations released for that? There were three main styles, Urban, Suburban and City, some lots along those lines would be fantastic for SC4.

Quote

Here's what I'm referring too for those who are unfamiliar with OpenTTD. The station in-game is the suburban variant. On the left you can see how just 5 props could be put together to make a large number of different stations.

Coego's transparent stations are an inspiration, as is a lot of his work. As one of the few modders who took great efforts to follow Maxis, by modularising everything. All his creations are fantastically flexible as a result.

Quote

The most difficult aspect would be the transit-enabling part - what to enable, what to leave as eye candy? After all, we cannot plop TE lots next to another. Oh, I'm rambling again...

Actually this doesn't have to be so hard. Modding some "starter" pieces as stations, similar to Briplazza's overhanging stations should work.

The great thing is that you wouldn't have to model much, you could re-use the multitude of stations/props that exist for the lots. Sadly too many station models have surrounds and everything batted into one model.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Guilty as charged - I sure do mention OpenTTD occasionally because it's one of my all-time favourite games. And yes, although I haven't used such modular stations myself, I'm familiar with NewGRFs (for those unfamiliar with the game, that's the OpenTTD term for "BATs"/ "lots" / "mods", so to speak) like these. Yeah, such a set would be great to have in SimCity IMO.

The platforms could be coupled with different station buildings, too. The inspiration for this is a custom lot I once saw that someone pieced together using a huge museum BAT by SWI21 (I think) and the station hall of BSC's Amsterdam Central Station to create a large main station. Something similar could be done with a modular set, too - after all, you're totally right: nobody forces you to piece it all together in game. You could also fire up the lot editor and make some complete stations. With a bit of browsing the STEX and other places, I'm sure you could find suitable buildings, including for more rural stations. Maybe even Maxis' Grand Rail Station would experience a renaissance? But yes, in this context it's really unfortunate that most station buildings come with everything baked into the model.

Oh, and really, don't bother making the HD DN render just because of me. I might never actually play the game again (I simply don't get to it), so it would really be a waste.

[matias93 7,535]

On 04-01-2016 at 9:35 AM, rsc204 said:

Quote

The most difficult aspect would be the transit-enabling part - what to enable, what to leave as eye candy? After all, we cannot plop TE lots next to another. Oh, I'm rambling again...

 

Now we can!!  [I'm crying of happiness again]

10 hours ago, T Wrecks said:

 

The platforms could be coupled with different station buildings, too. The inspiration for this is a custom lot I once saw that someone pieced together using a huge museum BAT by SWI21 (I think) and the station hall of BSC's Amsterdam Central Station to create a large main station. Something similar could be done with a modular set, too - after all, you're totally right: nobody forces you to piece it all together in game. You could also fire up the lot editor and make some complete stations. With a bit of browsing the STEX and other places, I'm sure you could find suitable buildings, including for more rural stations. Maybe even Maxis' Grand Rail Station would experience a renaissance? But yes, in this context it's really unfortunate that most station buildings come with everything baked into the model.

Think on the possibilities, with modular rail stations, there would be no need to use RL models for all cities; allowing customization in a very easy way. There are a lot of BATs that comes to my mind as perfect facades for rail terminals, and a subway connection would allow to route from the modular platforms to the street, allowing for continous facades without the need of pedmalls. This would also ease the creation of new stations, by only batting the facade and adding the modular platforms to the lot.

[Xyloxadoria 1,099]

I posted about creating such a system over in my BAT thread and was sent over here if platforms are created with tight LODs as overhanging props added to a main station building then that station could work for any network type if you mod the building to work with them all. The lot itself would not need to be transit enabled, the network would be dragged beside the building instead. The lot could either be a teminus which you would drag networks up to or a building built beside a network for a non terminus station. I know how to make the platform models that would work for the. Models. We should work together!

[rsc204 21,805]

I posted over on SC4D in response to your idea. It does seem like there would be some overlap here, although I think you've something in mind that's of bigger-scale than I had.

Anyhow in general working together seems like a good idea, I'll get back to you on PM regarding that.

14 hours ago, matias93 said:

Now we can!!  [I'm crying of happiness again]

Well I'm not so sure about that. The issue with two TE lots is not that you can't place them together, you can. The issue is that the code has no way of making them work functionally. I'm unaware of any recent developments that have resolved this.