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  • Original Poster
  • On 10/28/2017 at 1:08 PM, Cyclone Boom said:

    I can confirm internal discussions have been progressing, and we hope to have some news in the not too distant future. *;)

    I don't want to rush you, but is there anything to share now?

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  • Original Poster
  • A thought occurred about this.

    Downloading custom content needs to be super easy these days. One 'starter pack' that contains, say the top 100 downloaded and/or rated files would be amazing for any new player.
    (Excluding stuff like the NAM of course which is continuously updated)
     

    I believe that this is the single most important issue facing our community right now; and an active, constructive discussion is a healthy way to keep this topic alive.

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    14 hours ago, Haljackey said:

    One 'starter pack' that contains, say the top 100 downloaded and/or rated files

    That would be on top of an even more basic "fix it" pack. Separate from what's popular, we should push a free bundle of the dozen or so patches and fixes plus written-for-newbie instructions (or maybe an installer?) needed simply to make the game playable.

    We built a good list of absolute essentials... was it earlier in this thread? We patched the CD version to v640, included Maxis buildings as BATs, included a DAT-packer (and its DLLs if needed) and then the I-HT fix, the Opera House etc fixes and SC4Fix.dll. I'd include the Z traffic controller since perfect pathing alleviates much new-player frustration, but that's about where I'd draw the line between essentials we'd push and options we'd recommend.

    After that, a top-100 would be nice to have, and maybe the collection could help raise money to keep Simtropolis afloat.

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    I recently picked up SimCity 4 again mainly because of the plugins, and have wondered about this too. When I was first into this game I knew nothing about computers and had no idea about DLC and that mods were actually being made and available. So 14 years later I'm now a web developer and came across this site one day and decided to pull out my game again. 4 months later and I now have a nice collection of about 5GB in mods (on a 1.5GB game, lol). Only have 4GB installed as rest are different canals, farms and etc sets that I want to try in next cities.

    Anyway, my whole point to this was I have often thought about sharing these plugins in some way cause I run across a lot of people asking "which mods are good?", "are there starter packs?", "I can't find this mod any more". I could easily sort these in a way people could grab just what they want, especially if I upload to somewhere like ThePirateBay as well. Then they can pick and choose which files to download. Of coarse can do this with Dropbox or Mega or Onedrive as well.

    I hope they will decide soon I could definitely help out a lot of people and make their searches easier.

    If anyone is interested in anything particular they can not find, contact me. I have come across a lot and am pretty resourceful. I can at least point you in right direction for now or work something out.

     

     

     

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    Is it a naive suggestion to implement a similar feature to that of the Steam Workshop's collections? Rather than providing a spreadsheet of all mods used in a project, or uploading the file folder used, what if project creators could create a collection of Simtropolis files that they used, and there be a "download all" option, which compiles all the collection mods and assets into one .zip folder? That way, content creators are credited and the collection download counts towards their popularity. Again, this might be a naive suggestion, as I don't completely understand the agreement between Simtropolis and content creators and the politics involved in this method of mass downloading.

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    14 minutes ago, vintagamer said:

    Is it a naive suggestion to implement a similar feature to that of the Steam Workshop's collections? Rather than providing a spreadsheet of all mods used in a project, or uploading the file folder used, what if project creators could create a collection of Simtropolis files that they used, and there be a "download all" option, which compiles all the collection mods and assets into one .zip folder? That way, content creators are credited and the collection download counts towards their popularity. Again, this might be a naive suggestion, as I don't completely understand the agreement between Simtropolis and content creators and the politics involved in this method of mass downloading.

    As it has been said before on this very thread, it is close to the optimal solution for the problem, but needs some extra tech that the site administrators aren't in position to deliver right now. For that to happen, a lot of software development would be needed, to make a dependency tracker, an auto installer and most surely a procedure to order and standarise the current contents of the STEX. It's not impossible but requires more time and know-how that what's currently available.

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    OK, this is good news for you. Introducing the dedicated Modpacks article. You don't need high-techs to apply modpacks system. Currently, it's small but I'll be expand it more, such as 10 mods or even more. If you have suggestions or critics, just comment they on the comment section of the article or in the background topic.

    Thanks.

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    Hello, I've only read 4 pages of this thread (and it was already a lot to go through in a single night), so please excuse me if this has been considered before. I saw an edit suggesting the use of the https://chocolatey.org/ tool, but I saw no reactions or mentions of it. Afaik it can be licensed so a private database containing only SC4 stuff is possible. A tl;dr on the tool is that it basically is an apt for windows, with package dependency management, install scripts (so plugins install themselves to the SC4 plugins folder) and disclaimers could be displayed in the installing process. No programming necessary, except setting up the install scripts, but it's certainly a considerably easier effort than programming a whole dependency manager from the ground up. The end user will have to use the command line, but that's about the hardest part.

     

    I just did a quick check - pricing is spicy but it seems our use case falls into the open source license, ability to host our own package repository completely for free.

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    17 hours ago, radgeRayden said:

    Hello, I've only read 4 pages of this thread (and it was already a lot to go through in a single night), so please excuse me if this has been considered before. I saw an edit suggesting the use of the https://chocolatey.org/ tool, but I saw no reactions or mentions of it. Afaik it can be licensed so a private database containing only SC4 stuff is possible. A tl;dr on the tool is that it basically is an apt for windows, with package dependency management, install scripts (so plugins install themselves to the SC4 plugins folder) and disclaimers could be displayed in the installing process. No programming necessary, except setting up the install scripts, but it's certainly a considerably easier effort than programming a whole dependency manager from the ground up. The end user will have to use the command line, but that's about the hardest part.

     

    I just did a quick check - pricing is spicy but it seems our use case falls into the open source license, ability to host our own package repository completely for free.

    How about the files? That's need a license, too. The solution for this is to grab files from the source (similar to apt PPAs). For the money, it may show ads.

    Can the tool be forked? It's not nice to use the tools for downloading SC4 files. We want separate from them and we call it Modpacc.

    Sorry for weird reply. Thanks.

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    41 minutes ago, Chief ZDN said:

    How about the files? That's need a license, too. The solution for this is to grab files from the source (similar to apt PPAs). For the money, it may show ads.

    Can the tool be forked? It's not nice to use the tools for downloading SC4 files. We want separate from them and we call it Modpacc.

    Sorry for weird reply. Thanks.

    3

    I've never used the tool beyond the chocolatey public repository (which works similarly to the standard deb repositories), but my understanding is that the user will download the chocolatey program and configure it to work  with the SC4 repo (the repo itself can have the MODPACC branding if you so insist). This process can probably be automated.

    Here's the info for hosting your own repo. It may be too much trouble because I'm not sure if it can be integrated with the current STEX setup, but maybe it can be used as a staging area for the starter packs, with only approved content (instead of the free for all that is the current STEX).

    PS: it is as you say, the repositories only have pointers to the files, instead of providing a direct download. You can read about that in the info provided. Apart from that I don't know too much about the technical details but I think this may be a good choice for the project and would be very happy to use it if it was adopted.

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  • Original Poster
  • Like it or not, this is happening.

    Plugin folder shared on the SC4 subreddit:

     

    I am not going to lie, I have been extremely tempted to share my plugins folder this way for the 'good' of all. Certainly this would be 100% at your own risk, and could ban me from the community. However, this is the way things are going because we don't have a great structure set up regarding plugin policy. I'd say the severity of this issue has just increased yet again.

    (For the time being, I have a list of what plugins I use)

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    23 minutes ago, Haljackey said:

    Like it or not, this is happening.

    Plugin folder shared on the SC4 subreddit:

     

    I am not going to lie, I have been extremely tempted to share my plugins folder this way for the 'good' of all. Certainly this would be 100% at your own risk, and could ban me from the community. However, this is the way things are going because we don't have a great structure set up regarding plugin policy. I'd say the severity of this issue has just increased yet again.

    (For the time being, I have a list of what plugins I use)

    Sir,

    Regard the discusion, The Policy of rightfull use of these files by the creators, may be a little bit old aged in the way we like to invite new players into the game. What if a seasoned player as you provide and make ease of obtaining those megaprop packs in one go, what numerous download and instalation can be avoided. Some guidance may be adviced wich folders maybe added to your own plugin folder without hasle, like the BSC Megaprops and textures like heart of a plugin instalation. Stripped of personal contents this may be a nice basepack to make available to new user´s by Simtropolis staff. Restoration of old files like NOB, Caribou, Wallibuk and I recently discovered the Italian Pack by SC4ever88 wich was removed from Divshare for me are the prime priorty for sharing folders with Simtropolis and the community !  You may have crossed the line, still banning or stripping your status might be a little bit to harsh to do to me, I wish you a  very long well time with us !

    Sincerely yours,

    kschmidt

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    HI!

    OH MY GOD?! 

    Ok, I'm not against sharing plugin folder, I'm not against to the whole idea, but I just downloaded this plugin folder, and it made me aggrevated immediatelly. That is an unorganized s....t. No basic tutoral how to use that. Maxis and Dark Nite models in the same folder without the explanation which is good for what??? Installed inbuilt CAM???  Shared NAM???? WTF???? AH... 

    In this way I don't support any plugin folder sharing, it's a f...ing mess. 

    I hoped that if someone share something that would make sense, but this one won't... 

    I'm really pissed off...

    - Tyberius

    Edit: I took an other look onto that plugin folder and I discovered that he put the BSC X-port controllers (there is an X-Ports\Seaports\AC Functional Seaports, Version 0.0.dat) and the PEG Master seaport controller into ONE plugin folder... They are not supposed to be exist next to each other without CTD (maybe @simmaster07's fixes did something on that side), since both conflicting mod in the same plugin folder... I just can't belive it! :( It's pretty intersting however, how the guy hasn't got CTDs due to this conflict, or there is an other necessery file for the conflict and the CTD in the BSC part, which is not installed, I don't know, because never used the BSC Seaports.


      Edited by Tyberius06  

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    11 minutes ago, Tyberius06 said:

    HI!

    OH MY GOD?! 

    Ok, I'm not against sharing plugin folder, I'm not against to the whole idea, but I just downloaded this plugin folder, and it made me aggrevated immediatelly. That is an unorganized s....t. No basic tutoral how to use that. Maxis and Dark Nite models in the same folder without the explanation which is good for what??? Installed inbuilt CAM???  Shared NAM???? WTF???? AH... 

    In this way I don't support any plugin folder sharing, it's a f...ing mess. 

    I hoped that if someone share something that would make sense, but this one won't... 

    I'm really pissed off...

    - Tyberius

    Yes, Indeed its a mess for only accesible by anyone without the proper ´knowledge. Yet, new players can benefite time if they only make us of the most used files in the above mentioned folders or any other megaprop or texture pack; a sea of time !

    Sincerely yours,

    kschmidt

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    1 hour ago, Tyberius06 said:

    HI!

    OH MY GOD?! 

    Ok, I'm not against sharing plugin folder, I'm not against to the whole idea, but I just downloaded this plugin folder, and it made me aggrevated immediatelly. That is an unorganized s....t. No basic tutoral how to use that. Maxis and Dark Nite models in the same folder without the explanation which is good for what??? Installed inbuilt CAM???  Shared NAM???? WTF???? AH... 

    In this way I don't support any plugin folder sharing, it's a f...ing mess. 

    I hoped that if someone share something that would make sense, but this one won't... 

    I'm really pissed off...

    - Tyberius

    That's why we (well, not me, I've been very lazy in this aspect) have taken the time to do things the right way.

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    3 hours ago, Haljackey said:

    I am not going to lie, I have been extremely tempted to share my plugins folder this way for the 'good' of all. Certainly this would be 100% at your own risk, and could ban me from the community. However, this is the way things are going because we don't have a great structure set up regarding plugin policy. I'd say the severity of this issue has just increased yet again.

    Such things have always been around, albeit unofficially. If the user has an account here on on SC4D and their identity is found out, you can expect the banhammer to fall swiftly, it's absolutely verboten. And the reasons why should be pretty obvious:

    1 hour ago, Tyberius06 said:

    Ok, I'm not against sharing plugin folder, I'm not against to the whole idea, but I just downloaded this plugin folder, and it made me aggrevated immediatelly. That is an unorganized s....t. No basic tutoral how to use that. Maxis and Dark Nite models in the same folder without the explanation which is good for what??? Installed inbuilt CAM???  Shared NAM???? WTF???? AH... 

    Which is the problem with such packages, I don't see how releasing a poorly thrown together bunch of downloads helps anyone. In fact it causes no end of headaches and potential support issues. Most users that download it will probably just assume SC4 is somehow broken. If we release packages like this officially or even allow it to happen, we are only stabbing ourselves in the back.

    I do believe their is a place for curated sets of files, that should work properly out the box. There are still issues doing that, one only has to look through this thread to see how some creators would react badly to their works being redistributed. You can't solve all these problems by just going what the hell, we all need to patiently work together to find consensus and a solution that reflects a minimum quality standard. I do hope one day we'll get there, but we shouldn't rush into it without getting it right.

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    Thank you very much Haljackey for the link. This confirms one thing unfortunately, the time that administrators take to make decisions about is far too long. So it creates parallel "wild" downloads of ModPack directly made available to the public.

    I downloaded the ModPack to see, well Tyberius06 summed up the situation very well ... There is no organization, there are files that modify the gameplay and we do not know what it's used for, it's really bad. It is dangerous for the community this kind of ModPack, and it dirty the image of ModPack which seems to me already bad in general.

    Since the beginning that this topic was opened (July 9, 2017), I read a lot of comments that says that ModPack is not good or that they denigrent, and this is completely false as far as we know how to create folders with a correct organization. But this ModPack gives reason to people claiming that ModPack are bad! It annoys me a lot because I have been working on my ModPack since October 2016 and I am careful to keep everything tidy. I have always made available my ModPack to the public but indirectly, if someone wants it he must contact me first for me to give him the download link. This avoids having people who download the ModPack for nothing and only those who really need come to ask me.

    My ModPack has been available for about a year and a half, and I have never had a problem or even people who came to complain, simply because my file is stored, sorted and organized optimally, and most importantly There is a PDF document "Read Me" which is included. People can learn about using my ModPack and how to handle it. It is sometimes updated, with new mods, bats, and the latest versions of NAM.

    Banning someone from SC4D, ST or another site because it shares ModPack should be banned. If we do not open to other new players, we are left between us and this is never good. I am always happy to share my file with others, thanks to this one he can play without taking his head, and with a little luck he will even present his cities on the forums ... is not that the spirit of the forums?

    I am not alone in proposing ModPack, I know some other players who do it too but I will not mention their names. What's important to understand is that I often receive requests to share my plugins since I opened my CJ "Phoenix Project" and make my YouTube videos. If there are so many requests, there is a reason, there is no official ModPack offer on the forums and for new players and it is complicated sometimes to navigate with all outbuildings ... not to mention those that no longer exist or are hard to find. It discourages, and we lose players, and therefore the community. I'm not afraid to say that I share my Plugins, I do not hide it since it is written roughly on my TSC profile, but I know that what I do is good for the community!

    I wish to further clarify that I do not criticize the work of forum administrators saying that the process is long. I understand the situation very well.

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    4 hours ago, rsc204 said:

    If the user has an account here on on SC4D and their identity is found out, you can expect the banhammer to fall swiftly, it's absolutely verboten.

    I understand this point of view, but without any disrespect or any offence, and also i don't want to start any arguement about this, but banning anybody for this is just pointless. I agree with @Akallan in some points. F.e. how he described his plugin folder sharing mechanism I don't have any complaint, especially because he is providing a readme. 

    But I guess a lot of people is not really patient. 

    4 hours ago, rsc204 said:

    There are still issues doing that, one only has to look through this thread to see how some creators would react badly to their works being redistributed.

    I don't know who those creators are, I lost tracking this thread, only came here because Alex (Tarkus) - sorry for that - Haljackey made a comment, so I was curious if there would be any step forward about the MODPacks. But this is really ridiculous. Now these creators how will react that their precious creations is out there... Oh Dear, this point of view is at least as bad as dropping unorganized stuffs for the public without explanations... Especially that organized MODpacks would serve the community... But I don't understand the hold back. If someone doesn't want his/her own stuff in the pack who cares, than the pack won't contain that stuff, but a link in the readme can point to that direction if the player want more stuff can search there.

    Whatever I start not following this thread again... 

    I won't repeat myself. Next year this time, the situation will be the same, nothing will change really. Oh, yes, there will be more wild unorganized s....t stuff out there, while in the background still there will be discussions about a starter pack...

    Yepp, that's a Pop Corn-Coke-confy chair situation...

    - Tyberius

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    3 hours ago, Tyberius06 said:

    but banning anybody for this is just pointless

    Banning a member for breaking the #1 all time golden rule, redistributing content without permission, is pointless? If that's so, please do explain to me how we enforce rules?

    Do I think there should be a change in the rules, yes I do, I'd like to think I've made my own feelings clear on this issue enough times already. But that doesn't change the fact that right here and now, it is against the rules.

    3 hours ago, Tyberius06 said:

    But this is really ridiculous. Now these creators how will react that their precious creations is out there... Oh Dear, this point of view is at least as bad as dropping unorganized stuffs for the public without explanations... Especially that organized MODpacks would serve the community... But I don't understand the hold back. If someone doesn't want his/her own stuff in the pack who cares, than the pack won't contain that stuff, but a link in the readme can point to that direction if the player want more stuff can search there.

    Well simply because creators in a sense, have always had inferred ownership rights over their works. In fact, if you upload a file to the exchanges today, that's pretty much the agreement made between the uploader and the site.

    Again I've argued this system could be improved and fails to reflect and serve the community of today. I think we should change the rules, so that when uploading files, you are giving it to the community to take care of, for the benefit of everyone. But this is very different from saying anyone can take such works, then do whatever they like with it.

    How would your suggestion actually work in practise? Where is someone's opt out?

    1. Do we have a system where consent is required from all creators?
      You suggest if someone doesn't want their content included, then just don't include it. But, that assumes the creator of the Mod Package will get consent from everyone beforehand. Well if you were to do this, no one would object to you hosting the resultant package and linking to it. I.e., this is exactly how things already work.
    2. Do we have a system where implied-consent is used?
      I.e., we assume consent to include files, unless informed otherwise. Well, this has the potential to be deeply flawed and problematic if not done right. Although, given how impossible it can be to achieve anything with explicit consent, I agree it's the only way to make this work. In short, a balance must be found that enables progress, whilst having sufficient safeguards to prevent it turning into a free for all. This is the root of why this issue is so complicated and taking time to resolve.
    3. The only other option is the "Free for All"
      Where people can do what they like with the works of others. Do this and you will piss off a lot of creators. I'm not even getting into it, this is a really, really bad idea and I don't think any sane person would consider it. Taking this path has a real risk of ending up with much less content to choose from, I'm quite certain of that.
    4 hours ago, Akallan said:

    This confirms one thing unfortunately, the time that administrators take to make decisions about is far too long.

    You know, it's really easy to criticise, but the simple fact is you can't change something so fundamental to how things have worked for 15 years, on a whim.

    Since these discussions started, there has been real progress. Especially with regards to lost and unavailable content, which we are taking proactive steps to get back on the exchanges. Similarly, ongoing discussions have at least in principle, agreed that something should be done with respect of allowing modpacks, again that's progress too. Sure we haven't worked it all out yet, but these things don't happen overnight.

    4 hours ago, Akallan said:

    Since the beginning that this topic was opened (July 9, 2017), I read a lot of comments that says that ModPack is not good or that they denigrent, and this is completely false as far as we know how to create folders with a correct organization.

    Making a working coherent plugins suite is not as simple as organising folders. Here are just some considerations I feel should be factored in:

    • Ensuring the dependencies are all there, but also that only those needed are included.
    • Making sure everything has proper icons/descriptions.
    • Putting all content into a sensible order.
    • Fixing things where they perhaps didn't work properly as released.
    • Documenting things properly and probably using Cleanitol files, to help prevent duplicates with previously or newly installed content.
    • Ensuring the original readmes/documentation are included and organised.
    • Including optional files, with instructions to help users know what the defaults are and what to change.
      i.e. where DN/MN or HD/SD options are available. Or when optional textures/overrides were included with a mod.

    Doing it right, so that it's fully beneficial for the community, requires more than simply chucking it all together. In fact it's a huge workload, but my personal feeling is we must get it right, or face an inevitable backlash from creators. But, if we can balance things correctly, we'll be able to show something that is so much better than the current system, it would make it very hard to argue against it as a huge improvement. Whereas, when you produce the sort of quality pack that the Reddit article links too, it simply makes the idea seem like a bad one.

    3 hours ago, Tyberius06 said:

    Whatever I start not following this thread again... 

    I won't repeat myself. Next year this time, the situation will be the same, nothing will change really.

    Yepp, that's a Pop Corn-Coke-confy chair situation...

    It's a funny attitude to have. Because ultimately, if everyone decided not to partake in discussions because it was too difficult or too slow to progress, nothing would happen. Yet that argument of nothing happening, is the very one you're using to justify not taking part. It's self-defeating to think this way, no?

    We have made progress, it's just slow and not everything is in the public view yet. This issue isn't being ignored or forgotten, but as it stands right at this moment, a decision on how to progress hasn't been set in stone.

    4 hours ago, Akallan said:

    So it creates parallel "wild" downloads of ModPack directly made available to the public.

    3 hours ago, Tyberius06 said:

    Oh, yes, there will be more wild unorganized s....t stuff out there, while in the background still there will be discussions about a starter pack...

    The uploading of an unofficial, unorganised mess onto the internet is not a new thing. Any attempt to connect that event with a lack of progress on the issue of mod packages, is simply using it's release as some sort of propaganda tool or sound-bite, to justify a viewpoint. Such statements are hugely flawed and not based on a shred of fact. The reality is that for some time now, rouge elements have been releasing torrents and such along these lines. It's thankfully not all that common, but it does happen and usually they are a total calamity, like this one would appear to be. Perhaps because the sort of person who ignores the rules wilfully, isn't likely to take pride in how they go about things like building a plugins suite? I'm not sure even if some loosening of the rules took place, that it would completely eliminate such packages either.

    I don't think that change, in respect of making Mod Packages a real possibility, is in any way a dead or forgotten issue. Neither do I feel like this will be resolved tomorrow. As hard as it may be, patience is required, because this is a seismic change, of one of the fundamentals of custom content distribution.

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    I think one comment I made in my SimTarkus write-up about the practice (written the last time someone promoted their crash-tastic "modpack" on Reddit) sums this individual's pack pretty well:

    " . . . many of the users who are responsible for creating these unauthorized packages aimed at newbies are not far removed from being newbies themselves."

    Based on my research in terms of readily identifiable accounts, the individual who posted this plugin dump (and it is a dump in every sense of the word) appears to have had a Simtropolis account for all of one day before spilling it.  I was not able to find any identifiable accounts at SC4D. While it's possible they've been further incognito here earlier than this, by all evidence, we're talking about a very novice SC4 user, who does not have the foggiest idea of how to assemble a plugins folder, but is now distributing one.

    Yikes.

    I agree with rsc204, that cataclysmically overthrowing everything to rush out a response to someone's colossal rookie mistake is a foolhardy idea.  The reason that these sorts of packs are in demand is because the process of assembling a good plugins folder is not an easy task, one which grows by orders of magnitude once one starts to get into the multi-gigabyte range.  Any solution needs to be done right, or else it won't actually make much of a difference.  The fact that there are so many moving parts, and much less of a potential labor pool to wrestle these parts into place complicates things, and is a large part of the reason things have moved so slowly.

    The trick is making the initial step, which entails figuring what that initial step is first.

    -Tarkus

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    I know that the problem is orders of magnitude bigger than this, but there is also the issue of understanding that one of the features of the city simulators is it's complexity: nothing is meant to work out of the box, because that would be wildly restrictive to the overall experience. At least for me, part of what makes this game challenging after years is how difficult everything is, and how much effort a full community has to do to achieve seemingly simple things. Maybe it's just a huge case of confirmation bias, but I feel pretty comfortable on it, and I think new players could grow the same feelings if they embrace the difficulty.

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    Well, there is a misunderstanding here. I'm not rushing anything. I knew that things won't be changing really, that's why I stopped reading this topic (and nope, this statement is not an other push, or force, just saying the fact, because these modpacks are not really for me, I'm not their target audience). I don't care why content creators complaining about redistributing there stuffs. It makes me aggrevated that they have any complaint. 

    1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

    because this is a seismic change, of one of the fundamentals of custom content distribution.

    Nope, I don't think so. Some people make it hard, because they have a quite obsolate point of view. I think the actuall hard thing will be putting together (technically) an actual working modpack with all the details what you just listed. I mean, thematically finding stuffs not that complicated, but unpackaging and rebundling dependencies etc... well that will be nice...

    So the thing is. While you discuss the inevitable, because this sharing plugins thingy will happen eventually, you (not personally you) can get prepare with the mod packs. I mean someone from the leadership can open up discussion topics, where the brainstorming can go what should be in the thematical MODpacks. So when you figured out the sensitive BS details, you have a nearly ready idea about the contents. So the actuall work can be started even if the sensitive details not yet settled...

    About consent:

    Of course, a designated team who is handling a certain modpack picking up the wanted mods, then send an email and a PM to the account of the creator. If there is no response within a week, they repeat the process. If there is no response within another 2 weeks (so altogether 3 weeks), they send an other email with the warning, that the creations will be reused and redistributed if there is no complaint against the act. If there is no respons in the following 2 weeks (so there is a 5 weeks of response time) or until the modpack doesn't get a release, than those contents free to go... After that... you've been warned... bye! 
    It's not so hard... harsh, but everybody has the chance to object against of his/her stuff to be used in this way.

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    25 minutes ago, matias93 said:

    I know that the problem is orders of magnitude bigger than this, but there is also the issue of understanding that one of the features of the city simulators is it's complexity: nothing is meant to work out of the box, because that would be wildly restrictive to the overall experience. At least for me, part of what makes this game challenging after years is how difficult everything is, and how much effort a full community has to do to achieve seemingly simple things. Maybe it's just a huge case of confirmation bias, but I feel pretty comfortable on it, and I think new players could grow the same feelings if they embrace the difficulty.

    The number of possibilities with SC4 are indeed staggering, and that's part of the joy of it for me (and I suspect many others who have also been at it a long time).  Getting the newer players to that point (or returning players back to it) is the key, however, and I think we need some sort of "carrot" to get them there.  A large part of it is, IMHO, a packaging matter.

    4 minutes ago, Tyberius06 said:

    Of course, a designated team who is handling a certain modpack picking up the wanted mods, then send an email and a PM to the account of the creator. If there is no response within a week, they repeat the process. If there is no response within another 2 weeks (so altogether 3 weeks), they send an other email with the warning, that the creations will be reused and redistributed if there is no complaint against the act. If there is no respons in the following 2 weeks (so there is a 5 weeks of response time) or until the modpack doesn't get a release, than those contents free to go... After that... you've been warned... bye! 

    It's not so hard... harsh, but everybody has the chance to object against of his/her stuff to be used in this way.

    I think 3 weeks is perhaps a bit short, but we have been following a "three-month rule" with certain things at SC4D, in the wake of the Gobias mess.

    My biggest objection with things like what just went onto Reddit is not so much the permissions side of things, but the sheer incompetence of it.

    -Tarkus

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    On 2/5/2018 at 12:59 PM, Tyberius06 said:

    I don't care why content creators complaining about redistributing there stuffs. It makes me aggrevated that they have any complaint. 

    Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something here?

    Now I have already said, that I don't have  a problem with my stuff being re-distributed (it has already been re-distributed for years on SimCity China), but the issue with some mod-pac not being done properly that includes my stuff is that I have to field the questions from users when things go wrong with a big steaming pile of mashed-up plugins such as that reddit debacle. So to that point any complaint that I may have against redistribution not being done properly is pretty valid

    Edit 11/2/18: Given recent events on the forums that have indicated to me that content creators wishes are secondary to how the site interprets and applies its own rules, I have chosen to withdraw any implied consent that it is OK to re-distribute my files in a mod-pack. I may review this decision after the details of the mod-pack are known.


      Edited by mattb325  

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