NAM General Support

[rsc204 21,808]

2 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

I don't use dirt roads, so I can probably dump their exemplar out of my personal slope mod in favor of RHW's

RHW isn't affected and to my knowledge the only such exemplars in NAM are for Maxis Highway (which is only installed with MHO) and as of NAM 37 for Rail (RRW).

MHO's settings only vary slightly from the Maxis Original settings, the exemplar (NAM 36), can be found in the file i_Tunnels.dat. Here is a list of every Property that has been changed in the Ground Highway Placement Tuning Parameters (exemplar ID 6534284a-084344e0-0be08c87):

• MaxNetworkSlopeChange: 40 (20)
• Construction Crew Vehicle Speed: 64 (32)
• MaxSlopeAlongNetwork: 10 (20)
• MinTerrainSlopeForTunnelStart: 10 (20)
• MaxTunnelSlope: 6 (20)
• networkHtChangeThatRequiresFixing: 1 (2)
• TunnelModelHeights 9.250000,9.250000 (11.250000,11.250000)

Note values in Bold are the original settings and you probably only need those entries in green to match these values here for MHO's replacement tunnels. Also, the Elevated Highway Placement Tuning Parameters are not included in NAM, only the Ground Highway.

[Lucario Boricua 7,028]

On 5/30/2020 at 1:11 PM, jeffryfisher said:

We're getting closer to the day when TSCT adds a tab for slope-parameter tuning, locking down the handful of settings required by tunnel display and empowering users to fiddle with all the other things we understand.

I would actually be very interested in contributing to a future TSCT which incorporates slope mod features.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

On 5/31/2020 at 12:44 PM, rsc204 said:

the only such exemplars in NAM are for Maxis Highway

Aha... I don't use MHO, so I need not worry. I thought we were talking RHW overriding the dirt-slope exemplar. If RHW is happy using the default (or someone else's modded) dirt-network slope exemplar, than I won't have a problem.

Except maybe in RRW. Whom do I ask about what tunnel values are absitively posolutely needed to display the entrances?

[RLope 14]

I've never heard of slope mods til now...I'm gonna need to read up about this. Totally out of my depth tbh. 

[Lucario Boricua 7,028]

There's several discussion topics over at SC4Devotion on slope mods, and a few here at Simtropolis. The basic idea is actually defining how the surface transportation networks shape the terrain below them when constructed. Novice users will find that the main benefit is that their roads and railways will look smooth and drivable/ridable, with the challenge of not being able to build their networks in as steep of a terrain. Intermediate users will also find the benefit of using the various slopes to make their transportation networks look realistic, while advanced users will find them versatile to high precision terraforming for all sorts of in-game applications.

 

SC4Devotion discussions on slope mods:

https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=10422.0

 

https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=3832.0

 

Simtropolis discussions on slope mods:

And, coming sometime in the near future, the Slope Mod Shoppe!

 

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

18 hours ago, Lucario Boricua said:

coming sometime in the near future, the Slope Mod Shoppe!

I still say that there are so many elements in the "slope" exemplars that are matters of personal preference that each player needs to customize his/her own.

Perhaps the most overlooked elements (at least in early-generation "slope mods") are those for smoothing and cutting and filling and forming cliffs when a road is perched on the side of a hill. Judicious use of these lets us have our pretty-road cake and eat it with easy placement too.

[Lucario Boricua 7,028]

5 minutes ago, jeffryfisher said:

I still say that there are so many elements in the "slope" exemplars that are matters of personal preference that each player needs to customize his/her own.

One of the goals is presenting what's already been created, like @CorinaMarie and @Toby Ferrian did for most of the terrain-related mods. A benefit for those wishing to develop their own slope mid is having this as a starting point of reference before developing one's own slope mod. It's also convenient for the players who don't feel ready or don't want to be bothered with developing their custom mod, by having the published options grouped in an organized and well-illustrated manner.

 

Quote

Perhaps the most overlooked elements (at least in early-generation "slope mods") are those for smoothing and cutting and filling and forming cliffs when a road is perched on the side of a hill. Judicious use of these lets us have our pretty-road cake and eat it with easy placement too.

For that we'll need to develop a mixed tutorial / modding experiment forum discussion to actually explain the ins and outs of modifying the properties involved in re-shaping the terrain below the networks and thus actually being able to streamline the process of getting other players to develop their own custom mod. The one user I'm aware did the bulk of in-depth experimentation with this was Ennedi over at SC4Devotion, and much of the process is discussed on the slope mod's documentation and the SC4D civil engineering discussion thread.

In my particular case, I've been experimenting with other aspects of slope mods, namely realistic settings to achieve slopes faithful with actual highway and railway design standards (note: these are much stricter than even the strictest published slope mods, and some leeway in their adaptation to the game is required), and the use of slope mods with high variation in slopes by network to do advanced precision terraforming in my Earthworks Tutorials series.

 

 

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

Well, my last day at Boeing is July 31. In August I should write an article here that walks through each (known) element of a "slope" exemplar, demonstrating its effect (and how certain elements support each other -- looking bad or ineffective alone but good in combination).

BTW, I did upload my own personal mod somewhere. I'll have to track it down and update it after incorporating the values that NAM 37 needs.

[Eggman121 1,035]

@Lucario Boricua I did do some work on more realistic Rail slope grades as part of the major update to RRW as part of NAM 37. Just wondering if you are using the NAM 37 RC and associated RRW update?

As for the RRW texture side of things, I am still trudging thorough the reskin project to bring it up to NAM 37 standards. One option floated is to have a reskin that has both the look of maxis rail and have the function of the RRW. For most users that will be handy in giving the RRW the same style as the default maxis rail with just the gauge and pathing  the only difference as part of the RRW standard.

I can't thank @rsc204 and @rivit enough for the individual inputs that they have made in this area.

Hopefully the new skinned textures with a couple of extra sets will make it in the final Reskin package to fully convince Maxis Rail users to use the RRW.

I am happy to help out to put Catenary poles on the RRW but wires will have to wait till the next phase comes in. It is still quite experimental but I have found a way to make new networks using novel methods. They won't be draggable but rather flex pieces that have new functionality. I am quite excited about this stepping stone. So exepect a new network or two in NAM 38.

-eggman121 (NAM Team Member)

[Lucario Boricua 7,028]

@Eggman121

I'm using NAM 37 RC and the full set of RealRailway Mod features (Been using RRW since NAM 35), except for the rail slope, which is how I realized that I was experiencing a slope mod conflict. I'm a long-time user of the BRF Tunnel and Slope Mod, whose rail network settings include very flat slopes (5 degrees for Monorail and El-Rail/GLR, 2 degrees for Heavy Rail). The 7 degree setting for heavy rail found in the NAM 37 RC RRW tunnel and slope tuning parameters is actually too steep for what I've grown used to, and also very steep compared to actual railway slope design standards (3 to 4 degrees for adhesion mountain railways and urban rapid transit, 2 to 2.5 degrees for high speed rail and passenger heavy rail, 1 to 1.5 degree for freight railways; all as typical values).

     But it's fantastic news to know that, with the emergency rescue of the NAM installer for NAM 37, NAM 38 onwards will proceed to add new networks altogether!     

 

[Eggman121 1,035]

Thanks @Lucario Boricua

I adjusted the parameter in the Slope for the RRW to fit into the different player styles medium. So that is why the slopes are a bit more tolerant as compared to the current slope mod you are using. Also the tunnel included in NAM 37 is a new style and will need to be referenced by the current slope mod if it is to be used.

That said I will see about fitting in more varied RRW slopes to conform to users tastes in the future.

-eggman121 (NAM Team Member)

[matias93 7,535]

2 hours ago, Eggman121 said:

So exepect a new network or two in NAM 38.

I AM READING THIS RIGHT!!???

[Terring 6,473]

New networks? Now you have my attention

[thingfishs 416]

10 hours ago, Terring said:

New networks? Now you have my attention

Certainly not the only one. This made me think of the O-Bahn project from back in the day that never really went anywhere, but today, who knows. The O-Bahn is essentially a high speed bus expressway type network.

Is the O-Bahn possible?

(First entry from that thread (from 2009):

In Adelaide we have a thing called the O-Bahn, and if the wiki page is right http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-Bahn_Busway, it's the only one quite like it in the world, although there are similar setups in other countries.
    )

 

Now I realise this may not be of interest to enough people, as there seems to have been minimal implementation of such a network around the world (however,  how many of us have monorails in our home cities...?).

It went slightly further than is shown in that thread, we at least had a basic working setup. By fluke, my O-Bahn folder is one of a handful of items not lost via HDD crashes over the years, and what we had (which wasn't much) is still available for reference if there is interest.

(^ my first attempt at an automata reskin circa 2009, be gentle... ).

Anyway, no worries if this isn't of interest, but I was compelled to at least put it on the table.

(P.S. An advantage that this network has is the number of textures required: because it is an expressway type network, it uses overpasses and underpasses at intersections (except at the start and end), and so there wouldn't be a need to make textures for every conceivable network intersection type).

[Eggman121 1,035]

1 hour ago, thingfishs said:

Certainly not the only one. This made me think of the O-Bahn project from back in the day that never really went anywhere, but today, who knows. The O-Bahn is essentially a high speed bus expressway type network.

Is the O-Bahn possible?

(First entry from that thread (from 2009):

In Adelaide we have a thing called the O-Bahn, and if the wiki page is right http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-Bahn_Busway, it's the only one quite like it in the world, although there are similar setups in other countries.
    )

 

Now I realise this may not be of interest to enough people, as there seems to have been minimal implementation of such a network around the world (however,  how many of us have monorails in our home cities...?).

It went slightly further than is shown in that thread, we at least had a basic working setup. By fluke, my O-Bahn folder is one of a handful of items not lost via HDD crashes over the years, and what we had (which wasn't much) is still available for reference if there is interest.

(^ my first attempt at an automata reskin circa 2009, be gentle... ).

Anyway, no worries if this isn't of interest, but I was compelled to at least put it on the table.

(P.S. An advantage that this network has is the number of textures required: because it is an expressway type network, it uses overpasses and underpasses at intersections (except at the start and end), and so there wouldn't be a need to make textures for every conceivable network intersection type).

Hi @thingfishs.

I did go to Adelaide last year for a trip with my GF  (Lovely city BTW) I drove from central Victoria, Oh dear how times have changed in terms of world events. I did have the plan to check out the O-Bahn but it never eventuated. I was staying in at a caravan park in Brighton and I must say South Adelaide is really lovely. The Seaford Line made traveling to the CBD really easy. I must say, She wants to go back some time. Than I can Really check out the O-Bahn.

Back to topic.

From my recollection the Right of way for the O-Bahn was originally planned as a Freeway alignment to the north in the MATS Metropolitan Adelaide Transport Study but ended up being the O-Bahn. Quite a better use actually.

For SC4 I think that it would be possible to make a version of the new network to the specifications by the way of an override. Since the new Road network will have overrides, I could make an override set for a Guided bus Network.

I am still in the creation stage of the two new networks but the O-Bahn could be the the type of project that the new road network could utilize. Thanks for bringing this to my attention

-eggman121 (NAM Team Member)

[thingfishs 416]

1 hour ago, Eggman121 said:

From my recollection the Right of way for the O-Bahn was originally planned as a Freeway alignment to the north in the MATS Metropolitan Adelaide Transport Study but ended up being the O-Bahn

That's right, it was to be the Modbury Freeway but lots of people didn't like that idea - I'm certainly glad it ended up as it did (it's nice to travel on, not that I use it too often).

I'm encouraged by your response - please let me know if you want a copy of the files (as I said, there's not much there. It was really just a proof of concept thing: the texture, and the starter piece/traffic blocker I think). Let me know if there's anything I can do if there's any progress on this. I would happily create an overpass for the project for example. (although I'm assuming existing bridges and overpasses would work for it, nonetheless, it would still be nice to add something new). Ah, if only we could have curved bridges in game...

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

On 5/31/2020 at 12:44 PM, rsc204 said:

you probably only need those entries in green to match

Max tunnel slope is probably not bound, because that limits the height difference between the two ends of a tunnel. The other two green ones are very likely required.

Time to edit my personal slope mod.

[matias93 7,535]

For my part, I can only hope for a L1 El-rail

[Terring 6,473]

@thingfishs, that O-Bahn network looks great and interesting, something that mixes the flexibility of the bus with the speed of the light train. It actually looks like an idea I had suggested many months ago in this topic about car-train hybrids and I remember @Raymond7cn made a model of a pod that can be used on network systems like this. So, is it possible to release it, if not as a part of NAM, at least as an external add-on?

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

3 hours ago, Terring said:

@thingfishs, that O-Bahn network looks great and interesting, something that mixes the flexibility of the bus with the speed of the light train. It actually looks like an idea I had suggested many months ago in this topic about car-train hybrids and I remember @Raymond7cn made a model of a pod that can be used on network systems like this. So, is it possible to release it, if not as a part of NAM, at least as an external add-on?

Hiya Terring, I just noticed that topic you started, after spending hours in that thread(you knew my speed of reading), I have to say there were so much interesting information buried around the place. it seems Cori @CorinaMarie and other specialists had gone far enough on that topic, Your efforts are quite useful to me, Thank you! About pods, Actually I have made 4 of them, Sometimes the hardest part of True3d models to me is that making the polygons with less than 500. so it took some time, Anyway, I need to tidy those up and then release them first so that it could be useful to others.

Terring, You should remind me of the pods above and Huston's splendid mod, Nevertheless, it seems I walked on the right path with Huston.

Sincerely,

-- Raymond

[thingfishs 416]

14 hours ago, Terring said:

So, is it possible to release it, if not as a part of NAM, at least as an external add-on?

Yeah, I can't see why not - will wait and see what happens with NAM though of course.

[junspud 1,066]

Was wondering if this is a problem with load order/installation somehow? The Pedmall under Elevated Highway piece uses vanilla Maxis textures instead of MHO.. Everything else seems to use the MHO textures including the pedbridge over highway piece.. Thanks.

Nevermind I think I found my issue.

 

[EffTheGrid 3,669]

Hey all. After downloading NAM 37 I'm having a persistent and annoying issue related to L1 RHW-8C over Avenue. I've tried drawing the networks in different orders, different stubs, etc. Any ideas why this connection is no longer stable? 

[Tarkus 6,932]

Literally all of the RHW crossing code from NAM 36 was ripped out and replaced for NAM 37.  On the whole, it's made a substantial improvement, though being a very complex beast (there's at least 3 million lines of RUL2 code for the RHW now), sometimes stuff does slip through.  In those cases you've shown, it looks like there's probably some code somewhere that's referencing the wrong IIDs that is getting called some of the time. 

I can't replicate what you've encountered with the OxO situation in the pic on the left (it's possible that my work preparing the finalized version of NAM 37 already fixed that one), though I still encounter some issues with the OxD, as seen on the right.  Finding the bad code is a bit of a needle-in-haystack case, though I know the structure of it all enough that it's not an impossible task for me.

(Also, that's some really impressive diagonal building there--seeing your attempt to get those slip lanes off the diagonal also gives me some idea of what to focus on in a future release.)

-Tarkus

[Wiimeiser 444]

Diagonal slip lanes sound like a great addition if we want to expand the diagonals.

 

O Bahn is interesting, I've never seen it before. How does it work?

 

I was actually thinking of narrow-gauge tourist railways, similar to the Puffing Billy, though I imagined them as eyecandy/park lots like park trails, rather than being network based...

[RomanFox 28]

I love the work you guys have done with the NAM! It's one of the things that keep me playing this old game. I do hope to see more diagonal love in future releases. I got the idea to try building a Y-interchange to branch off a highway bypass but ended up changing it to a T instead. 

[junspud 1,066]

So I was wondering how comparable RUM currently is with NAM37rc?

[Tyberius06 12,189]

38 minutes ago, junspud said:

So I was wondering how comparable RUM currently is with NAM37rc?

Partially, I guess. But apparently there is plan for an update of the RUM, after the official NAM 37 comes out.

[rivit 3,391]

4 hours ago, junspud said:

So I was wondering how comparable RUM currently is with NAM37rc?

The new NAM37 has taken up a few more things that will be removed from RUM but in general RUM can be used without changes as long as it loads (as before) AFTER NAM. 

The new RUM will be smaller as the support of ERWW is all in NAM, as are pathing and bridge fixes. RUM will essentially be 'extras and alternates' for NAM from here on.

Once NAM37 is formally released I'll release the corresponding RUM.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

On 6/3/2020 at 6:47 PM, Eggman121 said:

more realistic Rail slope grades as part of the major update to RRW as part of NAM 37.

I did that in my own personal slope exemplars years ago. Please tell me that the NAM 37 installer will allow me to keep my personalized slope mod.