NAM General Support

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

14 hours ago, junspud said:

thank you to Raymond7cn who I think just answered the question.

Dear Junspud, How is it going! I still remembered the sidewalk's seasonal trees issue we discussed together.

I'm a bit ashamed of not very clear with this related to NAM, It's maybe because I'm busy with the study of modeling recently, All I can remembered is I learnt all the knowledge of NAM from robin @rsc204, He is the expert of NAM. I just need to pay attention on his tutorials(Youtube) and tips(Posts) step by step, nevertheless, I will try my best to help you if you can describe more details about your issue, since as you know, my poor English,  Thank you.

Best Regards,

-- Raymond

[junspud 1,066]

7 hours ago, rsc204 said:

All such “default” crossings were given RRW support when i updated the MHO a few versions back. In fact, before NAM36’s release I had STR working too. Not sure then why they are not appearing correctly, would need to look in to it. When I have the chance, i’ll attach a patch file, not at my PC right now.

I see I kinda thought that, I tried it out with the vanilla game and got the same result so I wasn't sure if it was a plugins conflict or a missed option when I installed NAM or something.

4 hours ago, Raymond7cn said:

Dear Junspud, How is it going! I still remembered the sidewalk's seasonal trees issue we discussed together.

I'm a bit ashamed of not very clear with this related to NAM, It's maybe because I'm busy with the study of modeling recently, All I can remembered is I learnt all the knowledge of NAM from robin @rsc204, He is the expert of NAM. I just need to pay attention on his tutorials(Youtube) and tips(Posts) step by step, nevertheless, I will try my best to help you if you can describe more details about your issue, since as you know, my poor English,  Thank you.

Best Regards,

-- Raymond

No worries, I interpreted the 'Yes' reaction thing as 'Yes, that's what happens currently in NAM with the MHO and RRW'. Me too, unfortunately I haven't put in the time and effort to getting the sidewalk trees stuff worked out to how I'd like it but I still have those posts and screenshots bookmarked.

[Rady 94]

Hi, as I'm atm reinstalling SC4 after some years, I wonder if i missed something in the developement of the NAM. Is the NAM supposed to replace the vanilla MAXIS highway? As after installing the NAM, I don't have a MAXIS highway, and also there no longer is a vanilla railway ...?

[Naomi57 2,985]

5 hours ago, Rady said:

Hi, as I'm atm reinstalling SC4 after some years, I wonder if i missed something in the developement of the NAM. Is the NAM supposed to replace the vanilla MAXIS highway? As after installing the NAM, I don't have a MAXIS highway, and also there no longer is a vanilla railway ...?

Maxis Highway (MHW) is still useful for:

• Bridges
• Tunnels
• Diagonal prefabricated interchanges
• Orthogonal prefabricated interchanges

The NAM's Real Highway Mod (RHW) cannot do diagonal interchanges, though there are plans to slowly develop new features in that direction.  RHW has no prefabricated interchanges, but does have several features such as the SPUI, diverging diamond, and Quick Change pieces, which are all about making a greater variety of interchanges possible and easier to build.

MHW is easier to use than RHW, but RHW provides many more options for creative highway building, rather than stamping out the same prefab interchanges all the time.  Personally, I really like the variety under RHW, but I still use MHW, too.

Doing in-line transition between RHW-4 and ground L0 MHW, is almost as easy as doing the old transition of Maxis Avenue to Maxis Highway.  That makes the combination of using RHW-4 together with MHW exceedingly useful.

One component of the NAM, Maxis Highway Override (MHO), has extended the features of MHW even more, and re-skinned it's appearance to black asphalt so that it blends better with RHW.  The only downside is that MHO doesn't support any diagonal prefabricated interchanges.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Here's a couple other MHW reskin mods, which support diagonal prefabricated interchanges, but don't have the other features that MHO offers.  These only work if you have MHO turned off in your NAM install.  If you want to turn the MHW grey concrete to black asphalt, this is the mod most seem to recommend:

https://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/28228-asphalt-highway-mod-NAM-texture-fixes/

... but I noticed that @Haljackey recommended this one, instead:

https://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/20509-highway-restyling-mod-asphalt-texture-set-complete/

Those two mods are both solid, though I've heard that neither one is 100% perfect.

For myself, I decided I like the look of those Maxis concrete highways, so I mix and match grey MHW and black RHW-4 just as they are.  
Being newly returned to the NAM, here's another active discussion thread you might find useful:

https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/758837-need-help-with-NAM-rhw-interchange/

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

If anyone has further info on the pros and cons comparing MHO, 28228-asphalt-highway-mod and 20509-highway-restyling-mod, I'd be fascinated to hear more.  

[monkeywater 910]

Does there exist a puzzle piece for tram in road or tram on street to cross heavy rail with an intersection?

[Tarkus 6,932]

No, there is not.  The original developer of the various Tram-in/on Dual-Networks, Chrisim, designed things to European (and specifically, German) standards, and did not deem at-grade Heavy Rail x Tram-in/on to be sensible on that basis.

-Tarkus

[Wiimeiser 444]

Cities: Skylines doesn't allow it, either, it can be done with Anarchy, but I'm pretty sure the game will crash if it tries to actually path that. And this is probably the only instance of such a crossing in the entire world.

[Naomi57 2,985]

7 hours ago, monkeywater said:

Does there exist a puzzle piece for tram in road or tram on street to cross heavy rail with an intersection?

There's a crossing of "Tram-in-Road under Viaduct Rail", close to the end of the Tram-in-Road TAB ring.  This matches up with the L2 Viaduct Rail puzzle pieces, not the draggable ERRW.

 

[Rady 94]

10 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

Maxis Highway (MHW) is still useful for:

• Bridges
• Tunnels
• Diagonal prefabricated interchanges
• Orthogonal prefabricated interchanges

The NAM's Real Highway Mod (RHW) cannot do diagonal interchanges, though there are plans to slowly develop new features in that direction.  RHW has no prefabricated interchanges, but does have several features such as the SPUI, diverging diamond, and Quick Change pieces, which are all about making a greater variety of interchanges possible and easier to build.

MHW is easier to use than RHW, but RHW provides many more options for creative highway building, rather than stamping out the same prefab interchanges all the time.  Personally, I really like the variety under RHW, but I still use MHW, too.

Doing in-line transition between RHW-4 and ground L0 MHW, is almost as easy as doing the old transition of Maxis Avenue to Maxis Highway.  That makes the combination of using RHW-4 together with MHW exceedingly useful.

One component of the NAM, Maxis Highway Override (MHO), has extended the features of MHW even more, and re-skinned it's appearance to black asphalt so that it blends better with RHW.  The only downside is that MHO doesn't support any diagonal prefabricated interchanges.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Here's a couple other MHW reskin mods, which support diagonal prefabricated interchanges, but don't have the other features that MHO offers.  These only work if you have MHO turned off in your NAM install.  If you want to turn the MHW grey concrete to black asphalt, this is the mod most seem to recommend:

https://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/28228-asphalt-highway-mod-NAM-texture-fixes/

... but I noticed that @Haljackey recommended this one, instead:

https://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/20509-highway-restyling-mod-asphalt-texture-set-complete/

Those two mods are both solid, though I've heard that neither one is 100% perfect.

For myself, I decided I like the look of those Maxis concrete highways, so I mix and match grey MHW and black RHW-4 just as they are.  
Being newly returned to the NAM, here's another active discussion thread you might find useful:

https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/758837-need-help-with-NAM-rhw-interchange/

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

If anyone has further info on the pros and cons comparing MHO, 28228-asphalt-highway-mod and 20509-highway-restyling-mod, I'd be fascinated to hear more.  

Sorry, looks like my question was not precise enough: problem is, I don't have the vanilla Highway anymore. Same for the vanilla railway. But, based on your answer, then NAM is not supposed to remove the vanilla higway from the game. So, problem must lie somwhere else.

[junspud 1,066]

7 hours ago, Rady said:

Sorry, looks like my question was not precise enough: problem is, I don't have the vanilla Highway anymore. Same for the vanilla railway. But, based on your answer, then NAM is not supposed to remove the vanilla higway from the game. So, problem must lie somwhere else.

Sorry if I'm mistaken, but it sounds like you installed the Maxis Highway Override and RRW mods during the NAM installation? Both of those mods completely override the vanilla networks. You can re-run the NAM-installation and uncheck the Maxis Highway Override option and the vanilla highways will be restored, same with the RRW, or Real Railway mod. You could do it manually also, but I don't know if it would effect other stuff, related puzzle pieces ect so I wouldn't recommend it.

The NAM will 'remove' the vanilla highway network if you choose the 'Maxis Highway Override' during the installation.

Now that I've started using RHW, I really like the MHO, but if you don't use RHW and have no experience with it, it can't really be recommended. You can't make interchanges without using RHW components at this point.

[Rady 94]

1 hour ago, junspud said:

Sorry if I'm mistaken, but it sounds like you installed the Maxis Highway Override and RRW mods during the NAM installation? Both of those mods completely override the vanilla networks. You can re-run the NAM-installation and uncheck the Maxis Highway Override option and the vanilla highways will be restored, same with the RRW, or Real Railway mod. You could do it manually also, but I don't know if it would effect other stuff, related puzzle pieces ect so I wouldn't recommend it.

The NAM will 'remove' the vanilla highway network if you choose the 'Maxis Highway Override' during the installation.

Now that I've started using RHW, I really like the MHO, but if you don't use RHW and have no experience with it, it can't really be recommended. You can't make interchanges without using RHW components at this point.

Well, that most likely will be the case. I did a custom install of the NAM (like I did it back in the old days ;-) ), and obviously overlooked this option (and I wasn't aware of it, either). Thanks for the hint, at least now I'm sure my SC4 install isn't broken.

 

Great community here .. whichis one of the reasons I prefer SC4 over C:S :-)

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

On 2/13/2020 at 7:36 PM, monkeywater said:

Does there exist a puzzle piece for tram in road or tram on street to cross heavy rail with an intersection?

If you can't find/make one, then a work-around is to use diggers to engineer a tunnel for one to go under the other. FLUPs might also work, but I haven't worked with trams, so I'm unsure.

[APSMS 1,892]

On 2/13/2020 at 11:32 PM, Wiimeiser said:

Cities: Skylines doesn't allow it, either, it can be done with Anarchy, but I'm pretty sure the game will crash if it tries to actually path that. And this is probably the only instance of such a crossing in the entire world.

Unless you live in a city like San Diego where the heavy rail tracks are in fact the exact same as the tram lines outside of downtown.

[Tyberius06 12,189]

1 hour ago, APSMS said:

Unless you live in a city like San Diego where the heavy rail tracks are in fact the exact same as the tram lines outside of downtown.

Hm... There is crosslinking in different rail related network in Hungary as well (mostly in the capital, Budapest). There is more or less direct link between rail-subway-and local suburban rail (HÉV in Hungarian - it's a different type of network, it connects some of the outer districts with the agglomeration or close mayor towns), this last one is more or less equivalent with the Rural GLR. Funny thing, that in the game there is direct connection between subway and GLR.

[matias93 7,535]

Also, this exists:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tram-train

[matias93 7,535]

Some idea on why I'm getting this strange route whil the starting bus stop is also a subway station?

Also, I'm finding a really low usage of subway in general, even if the simulator has the same fares for all public transit.

[rsc204 21,808]

On 14/02/2020 at 4:36 AM, monkeywater said:

Does there exist a puzzle piece for tram in road or tram on street to cross heavy rail with an intersection?

Whilst there are only viaduct crossings for Tram in Avenue and Tram in/on Road networks, actual level GLR/Rail crossings do exists for the Puzzle and draggable GLR networks, which includes Rural and the Draggable Extension variants. It's quite easy to split the GLR from the Tram in/on networks, with various options for doing so. Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

Using this set of transitions, the GLR continues sandwiched between two OWRs. I've space here for a station and have even managed to "jog" the TiA so it's one tile apart either side of the rail crossing. There are so many potential variants to this setup, just go through the Tab-Rings for each to see what options exist.

[medit84truth 70]

The paths for the elevated one-way + avenue intersection puzzle piece only allows the right lane of the approaching one-way road to turn left. 

[Tarkus 6,932]

The original puzzle piece-based viaducts actually treated Road and One-Way Road as the same with all at-grade intersections at the elevated height, and they just ended up using the Road pathing for it, plus bi-directional straight-through pathing on the Road/OWR end.  As such, that piece has been pathed that same funky way since (from the looks of it) NAM 5, which was one of three NAM versions that was released in June 2004. 

The draggable version of it has the correct pathing, since I designed it, and separated Road and One-Way Road, but we never touched the old puzzle pieces, since the plan has been to up the draggable versions to the point at which they can fully do everything the puzzle pieces could do.  My plan right now is to finish that for NAM 38.  Unfortunately, that doesn't really help your situation, particularly since that cosmetic mod you're using (the NekoPanch JPN Facelift, if I'm not mistaken) is PP-only.

The way the Road and OWR are entangled with those old puzzle pieces is . . . strange, and while I don't think it's something we'll really look into right now, as we're working on preparing the NAM 37 Release Candidate and the pieces do largely still function, it is on our radar now.

-Tarkus

[IceDruid 7]

Couple quick questions that hopefully have positive answers:

1. Does there exist width transition puzzle pieces that reduce/increase the innermost lane rather than the outermost lane? Specifically, I'm wanting to lay down a 6S-8S transition where the left-most lane is the one that's added/removed (using RHD). I looked through all the width transitions, and rotated the 6S-8S a ton, but couldn't seem to arrive at this particular transition.

 

2. Does there exist FARHW (or even standard) diagonal ramps that have multiple exit/entry lanes? In this case, I'm looking for a diagonal FARHW equivalent of a B2 ramp.

 

3. I can't seem to use the long flex curve (R5) with MIS lanes. Documentation seems to suggest MIS should be supported along with 4S/6S (and both of those work fine). Is this a known issue or am I doing something wrong:

[Tarkus 6,932]

To answer your questions:

1) The answer is yes, but you won't find it under the Transitions button.  There are some alternate options for width transitions under the RHW Cosmetic Piece Transitions button.  None of these really affect game/simulation behavior, so they're off on their own.  Note that the transitions that have the left/innermost lane end on the S-Type RHWs are longer than the standard right/outermost lane end ones.

2) The answer there is no.  There's been no FARHW development for a few years now.  We're hoping to re-implement it as a FLEX Piece system, rather than the current standard puzzle pieces, and Shadow Assassin, the main FARHW developer over the years, did leave us with an initial prototype of such a system, which we're hoping to incorporate at some point in the future.  New ramp interfaces won't be part of the equation until the FLEX-based FARHW is in place, however.

3) The documentation is in error in that instance.  The R4 and R5 curves only support RHW-2, RHW-4, and RHW-6S, but not MIS at this point in time.  I'll go ahead and fix the documentation to represent the current reality--thank you for the heads up there.

-Tarkus

[ian727 1]

Hello, I've been playing SC4 for quite some time and came to this forum many times to find answers. Today I decided to sign up because I finally want to use GLR some more. Along the faint red line in the picture, I intended to build a tram-line. However, after starting in the east, I already bumped into a problem just two tiles later

As you can see I'm a fan of constructing those roundabout-kind-of-things using the one-way road (to avoid traffic lights). However, there seems to be no puzzle piece for the tram avenue making it "end" into a one-way road (there is one for a normal road, though). Did I miss something or would I have to re-built this layout?

Then, further east, I built an overpass-thing over the sunken railway using the elevated avenue pieces. I can't seem to find similar ones for tram-avenues, so here I would also need to change stuff pretty costly - right?

But since I am quite new to all the mods, maybe I missed something! Help and tips are appreciated! Thank you!

[rsc204 21,808]

As with all such Puzzle-Piece networks, TiA (Tram in Ave), requires every supported connection/piece to be made manually. Such mods were a huge undertaking and therefore only supported the most commonly used setups for the most part. The NAM contains Avenue Roundabouts, which include GLR variants for through, curve, t or + interchanges for trams. Replacing the rightmost one wouldn't be too big a problem, but roads only come off the edges not the centre of the 4x4 pieces. In short, some adjustments would be needed for the connecting networks.

There are no elevated TiA pieces, so you have really only two options in this scenario. Use the TiA to Subway portals on either side of the elevated section (end of Misc. Transit menu), or I think it would be better elevate where the rail was and use a rail tunnel to pass under. It seems to me extending the tunnel from the north might be nicer than having two close together. As a general rule, TiA is much more flexible when the network crossing it is elevated, pieces exist for Rail, El-Rail, Monorail and El-Highway to cross TiA.

[Wiimeiser 444]

IIRC there are hillside tunnel portals for underground tram too, though that still wouldn't help here. Find the subway lots that look like that, though.

 

And given network limitations I have my doubts on there ever being TIA viaducts anytime soon...

[Lucario Boricua 7,028]

Quote

 

The railway overpass has an easy fix! You gotta build a very short railway tunnel across the gap of the avenue, then you can make the tram-in-avenue as you would in normal terrain.

 

Let me demonstrate real quick:

 

1. My recreation of your set-up: tram-in-avenue that can't go across the avenue overpass for the railway

 

2. Demolish the viaduct, along with 1 avenue cell on each end

 

3. Also demolish 2 railway cells away from the viaduct's original footprint

 

4. Using road pieces, raise the terrain across the trench, making sure to extend 1 cell beyond the avenue on either side

 

5. Build railway tunnel

 

6. Tunnel in place, ready to extend the tram-in-avenue!

 

7. Building the tram-in-avenue over the filled-in gap

 

8. Solved! Now all three networks can coexist!

[ian727 1]

Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it!

I decided that in order to use these trams properly, I need to "include" them in my planning already when I start the city from scratch. Adding them later on it too much of a fuss, although many possibilities are actually supported. But you know... You solved a traffic "situation" with an amazing idea, and it's so complicated that you won't get a tram through there without redesigning the whole area - so, if you want to use the tram, I guess you should plan with it from the very beginning.

Having started a new city, I am now struggling a bit with the issue that tram stations block residential development (No Road Access). If I use a 2x2 tram-avenue-station, I could zone a 3x3 residential lot along it and it would have a road connection. But then the game comes up deciding to split the 3x3 into "3x 3x1" hehe, gotta figure out how to set this up with less risk. Any quick tips on that one?

[rsc204 21,808]

1 hour ago, ian727 said:

I decided that in order to use these trams properly, I need to "include" them in my planning

I'd agree for the most part it certainly helps, but I've successfully retrofit them many times into cities also. If you're really opposed to some adjustments to existing networks, then I can see why it might be not be for you though. Having a working knowledge of the possibilities certainly makes the process easier.

1 hour ago, ian727 said:

I am now struggling a bit with the issue that tram stations block residential development (No Road Access)

This is true of all TE Lots (stations), because even when they allow networks through them, they are not technically networks. You are right that zoning a larger zone will work, likewise putting stations near junctions, so zones touch the side street instead works. For a 2x2 station, you can zone two 2x2 areas, each only touching one tile of the station, I find this works better with commercial than residential. Since the lower density residential buildings especially are more likely to split the zones. But there is no perfect solution here, a building may upgrade and split later, even if it starts out fine. You can't control this behaviour totally, but minor annoyances aside, it's usually a small price to pay for having trams. Note that the 4x4 roundabout has space to place a 2x2 station in the middle, which won't suffer from this.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

12 hours ago, ian727 said:

in order to use these trams properly, I need to "include" them in my planning already when I start the city from scratch.

My wishlist asks for "shadow builds" that are cheap but informative. I'd use them to impound land (and ID coming attractions) at minimal cost.

But no such thing exists (yet), so when I started my region, I visited all of the (city) sectors and built out the major networks (rail, highway, and some avenues). Since then, I have revisited many of those and started zoning (and running time off their clocks).

I can tell ya: Having a large-region plan in place sure makes individual sector (city) planning a whole lot easier. The trick is paying for it. I set up with easy "difficulty" and its lax money, so I can work this strategy. YMMV.

[junspud 1,066]

Sometimes if I delete a tile of TiS, or create a tile of it by plopping an el-r piece on top of the street, the surrounding stretches of street tile dissapear. I can demolish them and it seems like they still exist, but I can't see them anymore and have to bulldoze/replop the street to fix it, is this normal?

[Naomi57 2,985]

2 hours ago, junspud said:

Sometimes if I delete a tile of TiS, or create a tile of it by plopping an el-r piece on top of the street, the surrounding stretches of street tile dissapear. I can demolish them and it seems like they still exist, but I can't see them anymore and have to bulldoze/replop the street to fix it, is this normal?

That happens all the time for me, too, for all the dual-networking tram puzzle pieces:

• Tram-on-Street
• Tram-in-Road
• Tram-Avenue
• Elevated Rail over Road/Avenue/NWM

I use the NAM Disconnector when I can, to clean up after they disappear.  Other times, I can just re-plop the tram puzzle piece over the top of where it disappeared, depending on the circumstances.

In delicate situations where I don't want to rebuild the whole thing, I bulldoze one tile away, then use the NAM Disconnector on the tile I wanted to redo.  Trams are finicky, fragile, but profitable and lots of fun, too.