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2 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

Garbage trucks collect it from all over the city and then teleport to the street in "Garbage Town".

Yep! That's exactly how it works. And you do have all the important essentials in your list. *:yes:

 

2 hours ago, Naomi57 said:
  1. A good large area of landfill, remembering you can't move filled landfill once you've chosen a site.
  2. Trees to plant in the landfill portions not being used.
  3. Far, far away from any commercial, high tech, or R$$$!
  4. One house, one workplace, and one windmill.
  5. A small strip of street to connect the one house, and one workplace, to the landfill.

There are some little caveats:

  1. You can remove a landfill with planning over a period of time (or by using a cheat mod). Simply bulldoze the street or road that connects to it and in time all the garbage will evaporate. Once it's all gone, it can be de-zoned. Ofc, you'll need a Plan B for the garbage that is no longer going into the decommissioned landfill.
  2. Trees are a pretty addition, but not a requirement to make this work. *;)
  3. Yep!
  4. Yep! (Tho I believe in subsequent testing I've also done it with just a workplace and no residential.)
  5. Yep!


Here's another example of one handling a full city tile:

7010-7763.jpg

^ Ofc, it's a small landfill since in Corillion the farm development is only on shades of green when using the topography only DataView. (This tile has a population of 5,000ish so there isn't oodles of garbage.) The isolated principle still works for any size city and just requires larger landfills.

 

2 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

If you don't like a square landfill, best zone it larger and then snip out the bits of it you don't want using the Dezone tool, ...

Yes, but be very, very careful here. Make sure there are always a minimum of 2 x 2 sections. If the game cannot use the model files for the rounded corners of the trash piles like it wants to, then the whole landfill gets borked and won't collect any more. It's really safer to stay with rectangles.

For example, the one on the left would likely be fine. The one on the right would definitely not be:

7010-7764.jpg

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So i've a bit of a conundrum,
@CorinaMarie @Naomi57

Back on page two all 3 of us posted images with tax data for our cities.
Both of your cities had around ~50k R$ Sims generating around 2.5k to 3.5k tax revenue, at 8.5 to 9% rate.

My city on the other hand is generating nearly 5k tax revenue from 35k R$ sims at 8.5% on Medium difficulty.

It's roughly double what yours gives out. I've gotta ask, are either of you running a mod that reduces your tax revenue?
At first I thought I had something from ages past lurking around and doubling my R$ revenue, or residential revenue in general. But I've dug through everything and found nothing. I even made a mod that halved R$ revenue to see if I could track the cause using Datanode's override list.

Well, the mod worked and halved the revenue, but there was no override. I checked the Simcity1.dat's values, and they are normal.

So as far as I can tell nothing is effecting this, but I have real idea on how to explain the discrepancy. The closest thing I can think of is it might be influenced by the high number of residential buildings that city has, being 90% 1 and 2 tile Low density residential, since revenue is largely building based rather than occupancy, though I don't know if that applies to residential zoning like it does to commercial.

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32 minutes ago, Matrim Cauthon said:

My city on the other hand is generating nearly 5k tax revenue from 35k R$ sims at 8.5% on Medium difficulty.

I play only hard difficulty. I wouldn't expect it to make that much difference tho.

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10 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

I play only hard difficulty. I wouldn't expect it to make that much difference tho.

Yeah, it really shouldn't. Medium gets a 10% increase in base above hard. Easy a 20% increase.

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57 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Yes, but be very, very careful here. Make sure there are always a minimum of 2 x 2 sections. If the game cannot use the model files for the rounded corners of the trash piles like it wants to, then the whole landfill gets borked and won't collect any more. It's really safer to stay with rectangles.

For example, the one on the left would likely be fine. The one on the right would definitely not be:

7010-7764.jpg

You saved me again, Cori, thank you!  Fortunately, Brownsville is a city of many landfills, so this one hadn't been used yet.  The clever little snip at  B  for my upcoming bus stop next to the two recycling centres would have borked it!  How bad does it bork?

5fdad14ee63ae_BrownsvilleLandfillMar14(z700).jpg.757187fec328b9eab052ceb7bbcd38c9.jpg

To fix it, should I dezone the whole landfill, or can I just dezone a 2x2 square and rezone that bit?

I remember reading somewhere that multiple adjacent landfill zonings are finicky with neighbour deals.

 

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27 minutes ago, Naomi57 said:

How bad does it bork?

Borkish Maximus!

When it gets itself into a pickle where it can't show the right model that landfill and any others zoned after it will not take any more garbage. There are ways to fix it if this happens, but it's an additional hassle.

 

27 minutes ago, Naomi57 said:

To fix it, should I dezone the whole landfill, or can I just dezone a 2x2 square and rezone that bit?

From my random shape testing, you can just snip out a wee bit more to bring it into conformity with the 2 x 2 minimum requirement. I would try dezoning the 1 x 1 cell to the left of the bus stop reserved spot. OTOH, the overall L shape has the potential for causing trouble. I'll say that'll prolly work, but be prepared if you start getting messages about too much refuse and you can clearly see plenty of unused capacity.

Should you wind up with a borked landfill, drop in a W2E and/or add a maxed export neighbor deal. Also remove all road access from it. Run time and in a few decades it will eventually vanish and then you can reshape the landfill.

 

27 minutes ago, Naomi57 said:

I remember reading somewhere that multiple adjacent landfill zonings are finicky with neighbour deals.

I've experienced that firsthand, but not in all cases. I believe now it might be a matter of the width of the additional zoning. I didn't stay with testing long enough to work out every which way that was good or bad. I simply decided to stay with squares or rectangles and never add to an existing one.

I do know one test was with them separate, but the point of the corners touching and even that confuzzled the game and caused the detritus embargo.

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55 minutes ago, Matrim Cauthon said:

So i've a bit of a conundrum,
@CorinaMarie @Naomi57

Back on page two all 3 of us posted images with tax data for our cities.
Both of your cities had around ~50k R$ Sims generating around 2.5k to 3.5k tax revenue, at 8.5 to 9% rate.

My city on the other hand is generating nearly 5k tax revenue from 35k R$ sims at 8.5% on Medium difficulty.

It's roughly double what yours gives out. I've gotta ask, are either of you running a mod that reduces your tax revenue?

No, I don't have many mods at all, and certainly nothing that modifies tax or demand, or anything like that.

My Jamaica Bay city tile is set on Easy difficulty ... not sure that affects anything?  I never noticed any difference between the three difficulty settings, aside from starting balance.  My R$ sims in that city are educated very well, average 190EQ in that city, and most of them work in commercial jobs, there being only 2750 industrial jobs in the city.

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1 hour ago, Naomi57 said:

No, I don't have many mods at all, and certainly nothing that modifies tax or demand, or anything like that.

My Jamaica Bay city tile is set on Easy difficulty ... not sure that affects anything?  I never noticed any difference between the three difficulty settings, aside from starting balance.  My R$ sims in that city are educated very well, average 190EQ in that city, and most of them work in commercial jobs, there being only 2750 industrial jobs in the city.

If anything, it should mean your R$ res tax should be higher than mine since you get 120% of base rather the 110% base I get. I'll have to see how it sits in a city with higher density.

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    @CorinaMarie - Wait a second... are you telling me that you can create a landfill in one region lot and the entire region can dump garbage there... without any garbage deals in place?? :nyah: :nyah:

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    My city journals! *:read:
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    2 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    @CorinaMarie - Wait a second... are you telling me that you can create a landfill in one region lot and the entire region can dump garbage there... without any garbage deals in place?? :nyah: :nyah:

    That might be the easiest solution for you, short term, Cori's Garbage Suppression mod.  I think I might experiment with it, too, in one or two cities.

    12 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:
    12 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Is there any *cough*, *cough* overpowered *more coughing* mod that will completely get rid of all the garbage in the city?

    Cori's Garbage Suppression Ordinance.dat

    Enable it via the Ordinances. *;)

    Garbage gone in that one city, with just one click.  No management, no fuss, no tricky plops or deals or plans.  *:thumb:

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    Alright, let me put it differently... We speak Cheatless mode now.

    I wish to transfer all the garbage from all of the city lots in a region to a one, dedicated city lot.

    Let's say, there are five cities in the region and the "Cesspitville" is the one where all of the garbage should go:

    5fdb3799abb2c_chaindeal.jpg.6ea46b9890f7d1c9184f414d5488bea4.jpg

    Now, in theory, it should be possible to create a "chain deal" in which all of the cities, export garbage to their neighbors who, in turn, export their own garbage and their neigbors' garbage to the final destination - Cesspitville. We assume that none of the cities has any garbage processing at all.

    Stratton Hall and Bigmastake can each make a trans-border garbage deal with Cesspitville no problem.

    However, if I understand the game mechanics correctly, Bigmastake would simply not accept a garbage deal with Matrimburg on the grounds of having "no garbage processing capacity" (despite Bigmastake's own garbage deal.) The same would probably, and sadly, be true for Naomiburg and Gusp Gulch.

    However, if it was possible, it can not only solve the garbage problem but actually bring in big bucks to the "final stop" city. *:ohyes: Imagine the amount of money that Bigmastake could make, just for transferring Matrimburg's, Naomiburg's and Gusp Gulch's combined trash! None of which lands on their own soil!

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    In my early SimCity days, I was afraid of landfill, tucking it away behind the Airport, or amongst my Dirty Industry, but it's actually not that scary.

    14 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Let's say, there are five cities in the region and the "Cesspitville" is the one where all of the garbage should go:

    5fdb3799abb2c_chaindeal.jpg.6ea46b9890f7d1c9184f414d5488bea4.jpg

    I avoid more than 2 steps of a chain deal in garbage, because it's a major hassle.

    If you have a set of small cities surrounding one big city, I found it makes it easy to manage if I use that big city as the funnel for all the garbage.  Ignoring Matrimburg for now ... Bigmastake, Naomibug and Gusp Gluch would all export their garbage to Stratton Hall, and Stratton Hall would export it all to Cesspitville.

    In my experience, each city that is an intermediate handler of garbage DEMANDS having a big area of zoned landfill.  If Stratton Hall is as spiffy as it sounds, then it's best if the Stratton Hall zoned landfill remains completely empty!  Empty landfill smells good, and you might find a creative way to make it look good.  It's only when landfill has garbage in it that it becomes NIMBY.  I proved that with Cori's Park Aura data view.
    EDIT: No it doesn't require multiple landfills in intermediate cities ... see @jeffryfisher's comment below.

    If your export calculations for Cesspitville are off, then Stratton Hall will start to accumulate garbage.  This Park Aura data view mod will help you spot it quick smart ... it's like a Garbage data view on steroids, as well as allow you to examine your park effects in perfect detail.  It's also one of my favourite mods!  *:bunny:

    Upping the garbage export deal to Cesspitville will remove that little bit of accumulated garbage in Stratton Hall.

    Protecting Stratton Hall from garbage NIMBY effects is not hard, given how much you like parks.  *:yes:

    See here, I have a NIMBY landfill neighbourhood right next door to a YIMBY High Tech neighbourhood in my Breezy Point city.  High Tech is the class that is most sensitive to NIMBY influences like landfill.  One of my High Tech lots is just 14 tiles from the landfill, and it's exceedingly healthy, with 37 out of 40 employees, that's a profitability score of 92.5%.

    I achieved that by using scads of parks, and enjoyed myself immensely while doing it.  If you look closely,  you'll see the mass of parks all nestled between trees and avenue:

    • Softball Field
    • 3x3 Large Park Green
    • 2x2 Medium Playground
    • 4 Small Park Greens
    • 2 Gazebos
    • 2 Community Gardens
    • 1 Small Playground

    That was enough to protect my delicate High-Tech flowers from the landfill NIMBY.  Not hard, and rather fun.  Look for the Softball field ... then you'll spot the other parks, too.  These are all vanilla park plops, which combine rather well.  *:ducky:

    Click and arrow about to compare the screenshots.

    5fdb40d5e0928_BreezyPoint-NIMBYgradientFeb105(crop).jpg.41805f29a844b2968bd788ceeba61095.jpg

    ... and here's the exact same scene using Cori's Parks Aura data view.

    5fdb41429780e_BreezyPoint-NIMBYgradientParkAuraFeb105(crop).jpg.ec899f56eb2f8df0acbebe42e95d0cea.jpg

    Compare the two, and you'll see how the shiny commercial and high tech neighbourhood suffers no ill effects from the landfill NIMBY at all.  The parks provide an aura to ward off the NIMBY effects of the landfill.  Remember, too, that in SC4, landfill is non-toxic, no pollution at all.  Parks fix the NIMBY completely, and that's a fun way to protect Stratton Hall from the occasional influx of excess garbage.  *:yes:

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    Haha, okay, maybe this was a bad example image after all... *:lol:

    What if I got all of these cities arranged in a line? Back to back with one another, north-south borders?

    Gee... I'm really tempted to get that "chain deal" thing working...!

    A great thing would be to have a town at the edge of the map, riddled with PEG's garbage chutes, receiving all the region's garbage and throwing them overboard. I tip me hat to "flat-earthers". *:thumb:

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    13 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    What if I got all of these cities arranged in a line? Back to back with one another, north-south borders?

    Gee... I'm really tempted to get that "chain deal" thing working...!

    In my experience, that would require an empty landfill in each and every intermediate city.  :uhm:
    EDIT: No it doesn't require multiple landfills in intermediate cities ... see @jeffryfisher's comment below.

    You can still plant trees on them! ... and remember that there's no NIMBY if each landfill stays empty.

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    5 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

    In my experience, that would require an empty landfill in each and every intermediate city.

    Chiming in to agree. This is why I mentioned having small "handling" areas that are made of a few landfill titles and a few related cosmetics to represent local collection near logical trash throughways.

    They never have to be filled, but enable chaining deals and enable trash collection automata on your streets too(IIRC).
     

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    8 minutes ago, Matrim Cauthon said:

    Chiming in to agree. This is why I mentioned having small "handling" areas that are made of a few landfill titles and a few related cosmetics to represent local collection near logical trash throughways.

    They never have to be filled, but enable chaining deals and enable trash collection automata on your streets too(IIRC).

    Thanks for validating the "chain deal" idea @Matrim Cauthon:yes: Looks like the handling bays are necessary.

    This, however, is why I still believe there should be a "Trash long-haul" mod that could let a player order the garbage out of the city to a landfill many, many miles away (for a price). Though Cori's .dat is evidently a variety of this idea. *;)

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    By the way, I've got a kickin' idea regarding that @CorinaMarie's .dat that could turn it into an interesting legislative mod...

    Just give me a moment or so and I can explain it here or in the "requests" section. *;)

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    This, however, is why I still believe there should be a "Trash long-haul" mod that could let a player order the garbage out of the city to a landfill many, many miles away (for a price). Though Cori's .dat is evidently a variety of this idea

    My understanding here is limited, essentially this is due to how the Neighbor deal exemplar functions. 

    It controls all neighbor deals, and requires some capacity before it'll allow a deal. In theory this could be changed to not require capacity(but really there is a good chance of a hardcoded limit here, I just lack info here), but if it works it would likely partially break other neighbor deals. Or more specifically you'd probably have all deal types be valid at all times for all cities.

    You'd still have to chain with this, but you'd not have to build those few tiles of landfill to enable transit on that tile.

    Personally... I think that might be way too much work for not enough gain and some undesirable effects, but that's just me.

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    1 hour ago, Matrim Cauthon said:

    Personally... I think that might be way too much work for not enough gain and some undesirable effects, but that's just me.

    I agree. But consider this*:read:


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    13 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I agree. But consider this*:read:

    That's not a bad approach. I've got a few suggestions I'll add in that thread.

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    15 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    @CorinaMarie - Wait a second... are you telling me that you can create a landfill in one region lot and the entire region can dump garbage there... without any garbage deals in place?? :nyah: :nyah:

    No.

    My isolated landfills are per city tile.

     

    2 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I agree. But consider this*:read:

    I'll reply there in a little while.


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    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

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    4 hours ago, Matrim Cauthon said:

    You'd still have to chain with this, but you'd not have to build those few tiles of landfill to enable transit on that tile.

    You don't need landfill in intermediate cities for garbage to transit. All you need is a chain of neighbor deals with a garbage sink at the end.

    Besides the Maxis landfill etc, there are many creative mods that eat trash. My favorites are the black-hole mod (dumps trash into a hole drilled down into Earth's mantle) and PEG trash docks (sends garbage to off-map facilities overseas).

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    25 minutes ago, jeffryfisher said:

    You don't need landfill in intermediate cities for garbage to transit. All you need is a chain of neighbor deals with a garbage sink at the end.

    Good to know.  I've been overcooking it!  *:P

    Thank you!

    25 minutes ago, jeffryfisher said:

    Besides the Maxis landfill etc, there are many creative mods that eat trash. My favorites are the black-hole mod (dumps trash into a hole drilled down into Earth's mantle) and PEG trash docks (sends garbage to off-map facilities overseas).

    I've had my eye on those two mods, too, @jeffryfisher, but I'm very, very slow with taking up new mods:

    Having had a chance to observe them in action (and perhaps a sticky beak inside them), are they economically balanced?  Is The Pit equivalent to multiple Waste to Energy Plants in one case?  Are the Garbage Docks similar in price to garbage export neighbour deal?

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    1 hour ago, Naomi57 said:

    are they economically balanced?

    I have found the PEG CDK3 garbage docks to be very balanced; their big plus is that they're not prone to landfill bugs. And they look so good (in a gritty industrial way) in the dark under-belly of a heavy-freight, mega-port sea-wall, especially if you can wire-in all of the eye-candy heavy-rail sockets. Not everyone's cup of tea, but if you give over the occasional sector to ugly-but-necessary grime and industry, you'll love this :O

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    54 minutes ago, jeffryfisher said:

    I have found the PEG CDK3 garbage docks to be very balanced; their big plus is that they're not prone to landfill bugs. And they look so good (in a gritty industrial way) in the dark under-belly of a heavy-freight, mega-port sea-wall, especially if you can wire-in all of the eye-candy heavy-rail sockets. Not everyone's cup of tea, but if you give over the occasional sector to ugly-but-necessary grime and industry, you'll love this :O

    Thanks @jeffryfisher, alrighty, I'm in.  That one's added to my priority list!

    I do like having a wee little bit of grime and grunge, not too much, but a little bit of every neighbourhood type is very appealing to me.  *:yes:

    I saw those garbage docks on a YouTube video, I think it might have been @infamousjbe's video.  Definitely something I could watch and appreciate in a few of my cities.

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    7 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

    You don't need landfill in intermediate cities for garbage to transit. All you need is a chain of neighbor deals with a garbage sink at the end.

    I think you do. Prima Guide specifically says that you need to have some form of excess capacity in one of your cities to strike any deal in the first place. I am pretty certain that a garbage export deal in one town does not count as a "capacity".

    • Thanks 1

    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    10 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I am pretty certain that a garbage export deal in one town does not count as a "capacity".

    Not actually the case. I only ever chain my waste & power so I can have one city handle it all in a region. New cities can start a deal pre-emptively, provided a neighbour connection exists. But it is a faff to keep it all going properly. Not to mention it can be quite buggy. For example, you need to adjust the supply from one city, you select the ‘new maximum’ offered. But if you cancel the deal, then you’ll see a new, usually higher, value for the amount of trash. Plus there are times, especially when existing facilities provide the resource, it simply won’t let you start a deal, until you are out of capacity. 

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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    13 hours ago, Kloudkicker said:

     No one  has mentioned this beauty.. This is my favorite for hiding the landfill or to start out with until I am ready to switch over to a neighbor.

    I might have mentioned it in passing, but the link is always so much better (and pretty!).

    Note though that there are two versions. I think the operative stats are similar, but the artwork is rather different. Anyone opting for Black Hole should look at both before choosing:

     

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    -- Jeff Fisher ><> Vancouver WA
    "I may be pissing into the wind, but if I keep my enemies behind me and aim carefully, I can still rain on their parade."

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    The "borehole" one is better. *:ninja::ninja: More mystery and chills down the spine.

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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