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Hello again Community (though in a different section now).

Due to the fantastic GOG discounts I thought "Meh... Why not, I'll get myself a copy of SC4".

I remember I liked the region mechanics in SC4 and a significant deal of control that one has over the terrain features. Still, it does not change the fact that I have never managed to build anything remotely successful in this game...

Therefore, I'd like to ask - do you have any tips for the beginners? How shall I start a city? Why, for the love of gods, are there 20+ occupant types in this game? Why none of the urban strategies from SC3000 work in this game? *:???:

Any help will be much appreciated.

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The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

 

My city journals! *:read:
- SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

Also worth checking...
- "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
 

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    Wonderful! Thank you very much @Cyclone Boom, the resources you link to look as something I was after. And yes - I do not plan to install any add-ons just right now, I'll put that off for later.

    I'm gonna kick SC4 off with a small trial town. Then we'll see if more help is needed. *:) 

    • Like 5

    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    I'll confess my young self struggled to get to grips with SC2K at the time, it took me about a year of casually playing SC4 to really get a hang of the simulator. But things are quite progressive and all the resources you need to get it right exist.

    Personally I'd start with the in-game tutorial cities, the few hours you spend with those, will teach you all the basics to get going.

    After that, I can highly recommend this tutorial on Region Play, in the 4 parts that exist, it does a great job of giving you most of what you need to know.

    If you are feeling nerdy and want to know all the nuts and bolts, check out the Prima Guide previously suggested, but it's not for everyone.

    Certainly between all of these, you should be able to build cities without too many questions. Otherwise it's the usual SimCity formula, just with more complexity and "moving parts". Use the data available and react to it, this will allow you to keep on top of problems before they become something worse.

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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    Something more to read *laugh*... SimCity 4 isnt that easy. But if You know, how to handle it, its a fantastic Game with a long addiction.

    https://community.simtropolis.com/omnibus/

    There particular the Tutorials. And maybe this:

     

    2 hours ago, rsc204 said:

    After that, I can highly recommend this tutorial on Region Play, in the 4 parts that exist, it does a great job of giving you most of what you need to know.

    Thx 4 the Link. Didnt know it (Saved and 4 Newbis parat ;) ).

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    <<< German , so excuse my English. I forgot the most over the Years. Sad, if you cant spell a Language every Day.

    Feel free to ask away, i´ll answer any Questions you are asking for. But you must be warned, i bite ;-)

    URL: https://simforum.de/index.php?forums/18/

    Oliver

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    Ouch... All of these resources are quite putting off as for something that is supposed to be fun and entertainment. *:no:

    But I guess I don't have much to do while waiting for my new 5950x render station so... I might as well try to grasp SC4. *;)

    The most burning issue I have with this game is the budget balance. I have never managed to get out of the red in any city that I have ever started in SC4... Once I get a hold of this, I'll be happy and comfortable.

    It all gets down to having money - once you have money, you have everything. Seems pretty evident for any economy game. *;)

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    1 minute ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I have never managed to get out of the red in any city that I have ever started in SC4... Once I get a hold of this, I'll be happy and comfortable.

    The simple answer here is, don't over-stretch your finances, especially when starting out. Only build things you can afford in-budget, where a monthly cost is attached. Sims only need Power and Roads, everything else is optional but comes with a cost. Reduce the radius capacity of any Civic Buildings which aren't being fully utilised, which makes them more cost effective to use. Remember, all the nice things are there to encourage a better type of growth like higher wealth sims/com/ind, but none of that will happen right away. Much better to build a city out and get a really good tax base, then when you've more wiggle-room you can try to attract bigger and better buildings.

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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    4 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    The most burning issue I have with this game is the budget balance.

    While learning, play on easy difficulty level. Build small and withhold services until when and where absolutely needed. Keep your taxes as high as you can without spoiling demand completely -- In other words, be patient and grow slow.

    When you do build schools, clinics etc, titrate their sliders to just cover demand. Don't zone any commercial until you see high traffic, and then zone only where you get high customers.

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    -- Jeff Fisher ><> Vancouver WA
    "I may be pissing into the wind, but if I keep my enemies behind me and aim carefully, I can still rain on their parade."

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    There is an cool Tutorial out here, let me have a look... brb....

    *E* dang, the Page, where i postet the Stuff, is still down. Wondering why, there isnt an Update called.

    http://www.simforum.de/index.php

     

     

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    <<< German , so excuse my English. I forgot the most over the Years. Sad, if you cant spell a Language every Day.

    Feel free to ask away, i´ll answer any Questions you are asking for. But you must be warned, i bite ;-)

    URL: https://simforum.de/index.php?forums/18/

    Oliver

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    8 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    It all gets down to having money - once you have money, you have everything. Seems pretty evident for any economy game. *;)

    Yes, SC4 is an economy game at it's root, though there are many who use money mods or workarounds to focus on aspects of the game which were originally designed as peripheral to the game.  If you're curious to see how diverse the community is, here's a Simtropolis Poll asking players about their primary and secondary play-styles.  SC4 mayors are a diverse lot!

    8 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    The most burning issue I have with this game is the budget balance. I have never managed to get out of the red in any city that I have ever started in SC4... Once I get a hold of this, I'll be happy and comfortable.

    The "vanilla" (without mods) SC4 game economy is one of my special interests, so happy to help you out if you've got specific questions, and if you want answers that DON'T involve any mods.  :ooh:

    The one and only mod I use that alters the economic gameplay is Ctrl+X  moolah 5000000 , to give me a city startup fund/loan which is 10 times as big as the default on Easy game setting.  This allows me to focus on  Monthly Expense  budgeting, without worrying about capital expenditure.  My economic goals are to balance the books and repay my moolah startup loan.  This feature is in the "SimCity 4 Extra Cheats Plugin.dll" file.

    Removing the capital expenditure concern allows you to experiment with SC4 features, without worrying about losing money if you decide to bulldoze it later on.  It also means you can bulldoze and replop a civic building one or two tiles over ... if you find your original plop position turns out to be awkward.  Also, running out of money is game over, and that's rather more than awkward!  :rage:

    Some SC4 features involve lots of trial and error, which quickly becomes capital intensive from an economic standpoint.  *:read:

    The "extra cheats plugin" also has some other really valuable features, Ctrl+X  drawpaths  and  hidepaths sizeof , and  terrainquery , which are all tools, not cheats.

    8 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Ouch... All of these resources are quite putting off as for something that is supposed to be fun and entertainment. *:no:

    I can well understand that feeling of overwhelm.  That's one part of the reason I have an incredibly small list of mods I use.

    To help you on your way, I've shortlisted below excerpts of just the most essential tips from my vanilla economic management tutorial that @Cyclone Boom recommended:

    Quote

    https://community.simtropolis.com/journals/entry/29044-tutorial-for-building-your-first-city-in-a-brand-new-region/

    ... <snip> ...
    Taxes are one of the more powerful game stage features in the game, and I'll be making occasional reference to it.  Here's my initial taxes for Breezy Point:

    5d8ec3051dab5_BreezyPoint-StartingTaxes.png.a8009c7b5b63a6e6f6aede3b6cfdd534.png

    ... <snip> ...
    IMPORTANT NOTE:  Hospitals, Schools, Libraries, Airport, Sea Port, all have individually adjustable funding levels.  You won't be able to balance your city budget unless you learn to monitor the individual funding needs and funding levels of each of these civic plops.  Because of these adjustable funding levels, Airports and Sea Ports don't cost nearly as much as you might expect!  On a related note, I typically use §0 funding for Ambulance and School Bus services, which are a waste of precious monthly expense ... except in the rare case that I want to fine tune residential zoning size inside that radius in Health and Education views.

    5d8f0a28ec45b_Zerobudgetforschoolbusesandambulances.png.05e11ec19c37f0465915ddf6d24f4efb.png

    ... <snip> ...
    IMPORTANT:  Don't plop a Country Club until you're ready to provide high wealth R$$$ sims with both executive employment and many palatial neighbourhoods.  This plop is offered as a reward early in the game, and it's a trap for new players!   :lost:

    ... <snip> ...
    Neighbour Connections are the most powerful economic force in region development, particularly with C$$ and C$$$ commercial zoned along the high traffic avenues leading to your road-based Neighbour Connections.  Enjoy!  *:D

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    If you prefer video over reading, I very highly commend @rob_mtl videos also mentioned above.  He has a pacing and delivery which is outstanding, and he prepares well to make his videos exceedingly approachable for new players.

    14 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

    This excellent video tutorial series @rob_mtl made about the game:

     

     

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    Great Scott... So much, much knowledge posted since yesterday. *:idea:
    I have to thank you all guys for the tips you posted. If you wanna know - you are all winners.:thumb: I did not expect such a "coordinated response"!
    Just to let you know, I have began building Startville in the San Franciso region and grew slowly, like @jeffryfisher and @rsc204 suggested. I have build some initial population, then closed my eyes, turned my head away and plopped a PD and an FD...

    It turned out that after the initial investments and first monthly costs, my balance was in the green and I made $150 monthly, which eventually peaked at $300. This, in fact, was enough to afford some parks and a library. Which is very kawaii. :]

    Now, however, I'm struggling to understand why I can't get any manufacturing industry to move in, despite desirability levels being just right. Which is NOT very kawaii...

    The same goes for mid and high-wealth residential. There are just a few of them and the entire city looks like south LA (no offense).

    Also, two really simple questions:
    - Should I care about my power lines "brzzzting" and emitting thick, black smoke?
    - Should I care about idiot sims crashing their cars every now and then?

    P.S.: I took an immediate dislike towards the utilities advisor whom I consider a ####ing jerk all the way. I find his comments and "advice" to be the most arrogant and cynical of all the SC4 characters... :rage:

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    The San Francisco map was one of my favourites, too.  *:yes:

    34 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Also, two really simple questions:
    - Should I care about my power lines "brzzzting" and emitting thick, black smoke?
    - Should I care about idiot sims crashing their cars every now and then?

    Sims do lots of idiot things.  If you notice regular crashes in the same spot, you might want to check your Traffic Congestion view.

    5966b395140ef_13_03Traffic.jpg.28ce8b3ddb56be713b988660fb291871.jpg

    Credit @CorinaMarie's Traffic Problem analysis for the screenshot.  *:D

    You may find Crime, Power and Water data views exceedingly useful at this early stage of the game.

    While power lines "brzzzting" is probably not an issue, Zots are a huge issue ... don't ignore those!

    https://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=Zot

    Zots.png

    34 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Now, however, I'm struggling to understand why I can't get any manufacturing industry to move in, despite desirability levels being just right. Which is NOT very kawaii...

    The same goes for mid and high-wealth residential. There are just a few of them and the entire city looks like south LA (no offense).

    Factories (and sim residents) do function better with water, just in case you haven't found the Pipe tool yet.  Water infrastructure does cost money, so you might choose to lay it on for some parts of your city and not other parts, in the early stages.

    South LA is probably just the right look this early in the game.  *;)

    Game progression tends to go like this:

    1. Lots of Agriculture and/or a little bit of Dirty Industry.
    2. Growing amount of low wealth residential R$.
    3. A little bit of education and a few more years.
    4. Some small low wealth commercial C$ and manufacturing.
    5. Somewhat more education a few more years.
    6. Medium wealth residential R$$ and medium size commercial C$$.
    7. Pollution management, policing, parks and landmarks, and advanced education and health.
    8. High wealth residential and larger size commercial C$$.
    9. Many more years with stable economy, good pollution management, excellent health and education.
    10. High tech and high wealth commercial C$$$, if conditions are right.  *:P

    Through it all, pay careful attention to commute distances, public transport, traffic snarls and pollution.  Rich sims, high tech, and commercial zones, don't stick around in areas with too much pollution.

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    16 minutes ago, Naomi57 said:

    Credit @CorinaMarie's Traffic Problem analysis for the screenshot.  *:D

    I remember that area of my test city. *:yes:

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

    Are you new here? Check out the Introduction and Guide to Simtropolis.

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    1 hour ago, Naomi57 said:

    Sims do lots of idiot things.  If you notice regular crashes in the same spot, you might want to check your Traffic Congestion view.

    Currently, the traffic is actually very low. This is why I was wondering whether I have already ruined something or whether it's the Sims fault. "Destruction Derby" easter egg - confirmed. *;)

    1 hour ago, Naomi57 said:

    While power lines "brzzzting" is probably not an issue, Zots are a huge issue ... don't ignore those!

    Oh, no, of course not. Luckily, there are none in Startville. *;) I do, however, have a problem with the landfill(ville) just east to the current city. Despite road being right there, next to the landfill, the "No transportation" zot is on... Besides... for some reason I can't initiate a garbage export deal with the landfill. Something that I remember was absolutely possible. *:???:

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    4 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Despite road being right there, next to the landfill, the "No transportation" zot is on...

    This part means there is no grown zoning which could, in theory, drive to the landfill. All it takes is a single house or other grown building somewhere along that road or something connected to said road.

    Once you get that working, let us know if the deal is then available a month or three after the landfill starts filling.

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

    Are you new here? Check out the Introduction and Guide to Simtropolis.

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    38 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Besides... for some reason I can't initiate a garbage export deal with the landfill. Something that I remember was absolutely possible. *:???:

    When you're ready to delve into setting up deals, you may find the posts Cori made in a previous thread useful. In this post for power lines, and then in her next reply about garbage deals. To start with, the two cities are in the Maxis London region, and these are setup like a mini scenario to solve with getting them to be friendly and co-operating neighbours. Maybe try following both these tutorials sometime, and it'll give you an excellent insight of the steps to establishing viable neighbour deals.

    Both these tutorials were made with the base vanilla game (with no custom content).

    I'm by no means an expert at neighbour deals (and am still learning about these gameplay aspects from experts like Cori and Naomi). Also take all this at your own pace of course when you're ready to explore it further, and step by step is the way to go with things like this.

    It can be a bit tricky, but do keep asking any questions if unsure. *;)

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    I will try initiating the import deal on behalf of the landfill(ville). The other way round. Maybe this is the way to do it!

    I just don't like garbage sites in the actual cities. It's all there is to it. *:D And I read it time and again that the region system is open to abuse as you can virtually scratch some of the regions to make them nothing more than powerhouses or dust bins. I remember I did it once and so will try again. *;)

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    All the neighbour deals require a minimum amount of that resource for you to be offered such a deal. Let's say for power, you have City A and City B connected via NC Power Lines. If City A has at least 1,000 spare capacity, you can offer it to City B, before you even open/start that tile. If you instead start City B first, usually you can still setup the deal. What can thwart things, is if City B already has some power generation, for example a small Wind-farm, say generating 200 electricity. Now City B would need much more demand for power, before the game picks up on it. So just remember, the city with the service needs a good amount of reserve supply, whilst the city using it must have a good amount of demand, unless setup beforehand.

    10 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    - Should I care about my power lines "brzzzting" and emitting thick, black smoke?

    Are you under-funding the power grid? It seems like a way to save money, but actually is just a PITA, because power lines will need manually replacing if the budget is less than 100%.

    10 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    - Should I care about idiot sims crashing their cars every now and then?

    It's a signal of high traffic, usually at an intersection. Are you using the NAM?, something like the FTL/TuLEPs can help improve capacity and traffic flow at junctions, but is also visually appealing too. But mostly, check the Data Views, high traffic isn't simply a problem in SC4, it has benefits too. You should zone commercial around busy intersections, CS will grow very healthily in such areas.

    10 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Now, however, I'm struggling to understand why I can't get any manufacturing industry to move in, despite desirability levels being just right. Which is NOT very kawaii...

    The same goes for mid and high-wealth residential. There are just a few of them and the entire city looks like south LA (no offense).

    This is harder to fix, but comes back to my cautioning of not rushing ahead too fast. The game can be broken down into 3 cycles of development:

    • Early Game
      When you start, conditions will be poor and you will need lots of poor sims, combined with a little commercial and mostly either I-D or I-AG, otherwise a mix of both Ind types. You can zone Res, then Ind, keeping an eye on RCI demands as to which is a priority, adding a few more Com zones as demand dictates. You will be able to grow a pretty large area with only Power and Road/Street access this way. R$$ demand, managers mostly, will start too, to cater to them, just place them further from pollution and other nasties, around any early services you can afford, a school being the best value in the long run. A small clinic too helps to bring in R$$. Despite many others feelings, water is simply not required until you have larger (Medium-High Density) buildings, but for that to happen you need a decent population, around 18k for R$ alone. As the tutorials state, build out before you build up, of course there is nothing to stop you building out using connected cities, rather than in just one.
    • Getting Better
      As your Sims become better educated, this will in turn bring in demand for I-M and some CO buildings. You will start to get demand for a small percentage of R$$$ too. But all of this is really heavily driven by education, more than anything else. Keep your sims educated and happy to maximise the higher wealth RCI populations. Water is important now, where it flows will lead to better buildings growing. Likewise, you need to be tackling crime, health and other risks to keep progressing.
    • Best
      You have at least 150 EQ, nice desirable areas exists for your R$$/R$$$ populations to thrive. I-HT with some I-M has displaced most I-D/I-AG to become the bulk of your Industrial sector. CO$$/$$$ demand has increased steadily too, whilst plenty of CS demand also exists. You should be getting a good number of high-rise buildings at this point, assuming you've a sufficient regional population. Yet, still at least 50% of your population will be R$, remember society needs more cleaners and security staff, than it does professors and CEOs.

    So yeah, for a long time you might end up with something looking like a Ghetto, but it's also true you need some Ghettos to succeed. If every part of your map ends up with really high land values, R$ sims won't move in, but you need them to keep businesses functioning, to keep the R$$ and R$$$ in their jobs. That's not to say they have to be dirty areas without water and huge pollution, just be careful not to make everywhere too nice. As many others show, especially @CorinaMarie, starting with a more rural tone, using only farms and small villages/towns, is just as valid a starting strategy as an industrial wasteland. But you need to start with a good industrial base of some kind to in turn build your residential population. Until you've done all those things, you won't have what you need to improve your cities.

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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    On 01/12/2020 at 6:41 PM, City_Slider said:

    There is an cool Tutorial out here, let me have a look... brb....

    Here we go... and... its Frisco :-D

    https://tl.net/blogs/402446-SimCity-4-tutorial-part-1

     

    15 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I just don't like garbage sites in the actual cities.

    Neither do i. Thats why im using PEGs Garbage Disposal Chute, as long as i got no other Connections.

    http://www.simcityplaza.de/index.php/staedtische-einrichtungen/ver-entsorgung?start=10

    2nd Link on Top. No Registration needed.

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    <<< German , so excuse my English. I forgot the most over the Years. Sad, if you cant spell a Language every Day.

    Feel free to ask away, i´ll answer any Questions you are asking for. But you must be warned, i bite ;-)

    URL: https://simforum.de/index.php?forums/18/

    Oliver

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    @rsc204 Hah, actually they keep crashing on intersections that have very light traffic... Perhaps I have missed some optometrist funding slider then. *:lol:

    But I do suck at traffic management... Currently I have two red intersections in the town and just can't make up my mind what (and if) I should do about it.

    Here's a screen of the busy intersections and, ironically, no crashes there... *:???: Just a regular traffic congestion:

    traf.jpg.6a3dea24f37a80d975ed445560c6733e.jpg

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    3 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    @rsc204 Hah, actually they keep crashing on intersections that have very light traffic... Perhaps I have missed some optometrist funding slider then. *:lol:

    This doesn’t indicate a problem, it’s just an animation that is triggered to appear in certain circumstances. Likewise the red traffic areas would improve if you upgraded them to Roads which have a higher capacity. But it’s unlikely they are at breaking point yet.

    The number is Sims living in small, medium and high wealth zones increase dramatically. These traffic hotspots are most likely part of the commutes for the Medium Res buildings a little ‘downwind’. Use of Mass Transit will help move large numbers of Sims, even simple Bus Stops can be useful around larger buildings. Otherwise you can upgrade to Roads or better still OWR systems, to handle the increased traffic levels. You may also need to consider how you intend to grow an area, if at all, it wouldn’t make sense to upgrade the roads, if you weren’t further developing zones that would also use them. In some situations, connecting cull-de-sacs into full on city blocks might be favourable too. That can split which direction Sims have available, assuming all options lead to a desirable route. If one was always faster, Sims would prefer this, although with severe congestion, it could become a factor of how quick a given route is.

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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    Some Bus Stations would be helpfull... even in the Future.


    <<< German , so excuse my English. I forgot the most over the Years. Sad, if you cant spell a Language every Day.

    Feel free to ask away, i´ll answer any Questions you are asking for. But you must be warned, i bite ;-)

    URL: https://simforum.de/index.php?forums/18/

    Oliver

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    5 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Here's a screen of the busy intersections and, ironically, no crashes there... *:???: Just a regular traffic congestion

    Assuming you haven't installed the NAM (the swiss army knife of all traffic mods), then using the vanilla SC4 traffic simulator, sims always take shortest distance in commute to and from work, even if that means travelling back streets with horrifying traffic snarls.

    It is possible (I think) to install just the NAM traffic simulator (without the full swiss army knife of traffic tools), which teaches the sims to spread out their commute paths, each taking the fastest commute to work, rather than the shortest.

    5 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    But I do suck at traffic management... Currently I have two red intersections in the town and just can't make up my mind what (and if) I should do about it.

    Here's a screenshot from one of my vanilla SC4 cities, Castro Valley in San Francisco circa 2018, before I installed the NAM, and shows some of the traffic management required in vanilla SC4.  Notice the extreme number of cul-de-sacs for single-tile streets and roads, thereby forcing all the sim traffic to spill out onto the 2-tile avenues and highways.  Notice also the bridge, which was a late addition, because there was too much traffic on the main throughfare.

    5d8ff7efc8b8d_CastroValley-PortBusinessDistrict.jpg.c516754e50bc1b3aad794b0554937f0a.jpg

    Notice the bus stops in the cul-de-sacs, which provides back-lane public transport + dedicated bus-lanes + stopping traffic buildup in back streets.  *:D  Bus stops are actually one of the most useful pieces in the game, as I describe in this tutorial.

    Using SC4 vanilla, one technique you might find useful is to sometimes use 2-tile avenue stubs to double the capacity on just the busiest intersections:

    5fc83c30d3b26_VanillaRD-2toAVE-4forintersection.jpg.69e392f4d0e06b57d05de698e47db894.jpg

     

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    13 hours ago, rsc204 said:
    • Best
      You have at least 150 EQ, nice desirable areas exists for your R$$/R$$$ populations to thrive. I-HT with some I-M has displaced most I-D/I-AG to become the bulk of your Industrial sector. CO$$/$$$ demand has increased steadily too, whilst plenty of CS demand also exists. You should be getting a good number of high-rise buildings at this point, assuming you've a sufficient regional population. Yet, still at least 50% of your population will be R$, remember society needs more cleaners and security staff, than it does professors and CEOs.

    But, I'm on the best side and yet my industry is mostly I-M, clean I-M provided by CAMified IRM since yesterday to be exact. I-HT requires high desirability which needs residential amenities. Parks for short time, sure. But for long term, won't cut. So, a proper school and hospital coverage will be needed, which increases the cost which decreases the budget health, especially if you're (in the brink) of deficit and worst, your budget is in the hundreds or even just of thousands of simoleans.

    Side note: only 3% of my population is poor, largely due to commute and recently, CAMification. The rest are largely middle class and high wealth with poor-like concentration.

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    I continued growing my herd (and hoard) and managed to achieve $1000 monthly income. *:party: And all this whiIe having two clinics, PD, FD, school, a high school and some parks! I have never thought I could balance SC4 budget like this. Again, a round of applause to anyone who contributed. :thumb:

    I think I could probably get around without the high school, as it has barely 70 students... But I guess I wanted to go forth with another proof-of-concept.

    5 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

    Assuming you haven't installed the NAM (the swiss army knife of all traffic mods), then using the vanilla SC4 traffic simulator, sims always take shortest distance in commute to and from work, even if that means travelling back streets with horrifying traffic snarls.

    It is possible (I think) to install just the NAM traffic simulator (without the full swiss army knife of traffic tools), which teaches the sims to spread out their commute paths, each taking the fastest commute to work, rather than the shortest.

    Ahhh, damn... Sounds familiar indeed... I should have remembered the shortest distance rule, I guess it's just the same in SC3000.

    Sooo, what you are saying is that I should get NAM to have Sims act more realistically on their commutes?

    Anyway, now that my financial future looks sound, I can probably focus on other, finer aspects of the game. If you are not yet tired of my questions, feel free to share your insights. *;)

    1. Is there any power plant and water pump capacities mod? *:D It is absolutely necessary. :]
    2. Need to figure out why the farms are not developing, despite the demand being sky-high.
    3. Need to figure out why wealthy sims irresponsibly move in to the city that has low or no demand for I-H or I-M. Only to find out they can't find a job and have their homes undergo dilapidation.

    • Like 4

    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    3 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    1. Is there any power plant and water pump capacities mod? *:D It is absolutely necessary. :]

    Many of the power and water and trash mods out there distort the economic aspects of the game, so if you're wanting economically balanced power and water mods, you'd best say so up front.   I don't have many mods, so we'd best wait for someone else to chime in with their favourite mods to recommend.  I think there's a few desalination plants here on the STEX, and a geothermal plant, too, which sounds pretty cool.

    However, if your water and power problems are purely a lack of capacity, or a lack of green power solutions, that is EASILY solvable with a built-in SC4 cheat, Ctrl+X  you don't deserve it , which unlocks all built-in rewards and advanced civic plops.  That's another "cheat" I use frequently, but only in a "non-cheaty" way.  (of course, one player's cheat is another player's treasured technique)  *:kitty:

    Here's the full list of built-in power stations, once they are unlocked:

    Quote

    ... and it also unlocks the Large Water Pump, which is 10 times the water capacity, and 9 times the monthly cost, compared to the standard Water Pump.

    For myself, my preferred clean energy solution is a 6x6 wind farm, then bulldozed to make way for a 6x6 Solar (thermal) power plant.  I've built a few cities with Hydrogen power stations, but the monthly cost for that is too high until you have either a huge population, or a crazy amount of industry.

    The thing I love most about Ctrl+X  you don't deserve it , is that most of the unlocked features are economically balanced.  I just like having a more convenient game without having to jump through the reward hoops and "unlock requirements" described on the sc4devotion wiki.

    Of course, there are some custom mods that I feel compelled to use at least once, whether they are economically balanced or not.  The heart wants what the heart wants, like this one.  *;)

    3 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    2. Need to figure out why the farms are not developing, despite the demand being sky-high.

    Best call on our internationally acclaimed farming expert, @CorinaMarie, if you've a few minutes you can spare to share your wisdom?

    3 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    3. Need to figure out why wealthy sims irresponsibly move in to the city that has low or no demand for I-H or I-M. Only to find out they can't find a job and have their homes undergo dilapidation.

    Sims are usually irresponsible.  Sorry, we were all of us wondering when you'd come up against this one.  *:P

    It looks like an imbalance in the game, but IMHO, I think the game designers did it to us on purpose.  There's a whole range of Simtropolis threads on this one topic, and a few mods that re-balance the game to fix it.  My personal approach, is to:

    1. start each new city with R$$$ tax at 20%, and then
    2. lower the R$$$ tax to somewhere around 11% to 13% to let just a few R$$$ sims in, then
    3. lower R$$$ tax to somewhere around 10% to 12% to let a decent flow of R$$$ sims in.

    In the richest and cleanest city of my current region, at sim-year 109, with C$$$ tax revenues of §11,000 per month, I brought the R$$$ tax rate down to 9.0%, same as the R$$ tax rate, to let more R$$$ residents in.  That is super unusual for me.  I typically look after my R$$$ sims really, really well, laying on every luxury for them, but tax them at the highest rate they'll take.  That slows them down a bit.  *:lol:*:rofl:*:P

    3 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Sooo, what you are saying is that I should get NAM to have Sims act more realistically on their commutes?

    Yes, but ... if you install the entire NAM, be prepared for a (delightful, frustrating & addictive) learning curve of about 2 years.  :O

    You might want to install just the NAM traffic simulator for now.  That way you only have one optional setup screen and you're done.

    large.5ee035a0e730d_TSCT-TrafficSimulatorConfigurationTool.png.e97c55f3ac11302fd8e6af41543ac8dc.png

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    5 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Sooo, what you are saying is that I should get NAM to have Sims act more realistically on their commutes?

    Actually, the original Maxis Traffic Simulator is at best bad, but in real terms you can consider it broken. It seems it was messed up when Maxis set a property designed to favour lower CPU usage over flexibility of commuting paths. We know such a change was made, in order to support PCs with Pentium III 500 processors, which were low-mid range, around the time of the game's launch.

    The option to install just the Traffic Simulator and game fixes, does not exist in the current NAM installer anymore. But, you should be able to achieve the same compact install, by jumping through a few hoops.

    However, the one obvious difference with NAM's Traffic Simulator is that instead of taking the Shortest route, sims travel by the Fastest route. This seems like a minor thing, but actually the way things work by default prevent Mass Transit from really working, make highways almost completely pointless and means sims only want to work in jobs close-by their homes.

    5 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    1. Is there any power plant and water pump capacities mod? *:D It is absolutely necessary. :]

    Maybe for the power plant, but for Water Pumps? Are you only using the small one, the large pump has huge capacity. A few of those can support a very large city indeed. Even for the power plants, meet the right conditions and you'll unlock plants with up to 50k production capacity, i.e.Hydrogen power.

    5 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    2. Need to figure out why the farms are not developing, despite the demand being sky-high.

    If your sims are mostly educated or you have a decent industrial base that is not farming (I-AG), then new farms tend not to grow. Likewise, eventually you'll loose all demand for farms, which were only intended to be used to get your region going, as a non-polluting alternative to I-D.

    5 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    3. Need to figure out why wealthy sims irresponsibly move in to the city that has low or no demand for I-H or I-M. Only to find out they can't find a job and have their homes undergo dilapidation.

    Because the conditions for them to move in there were right at the time, even if it wasn't sustainable. It's not like Wealthy sims only work in I-M or I-HT either. Plus, if suitable jobs exist in connected cities, the demand is pooled between such cities. Again, it's why keeping a really solid base of R$ sims never hurts, they are the backbone of everything and it can actually take a lot of effort to manage keeping them. Once more, if you are too quick to make your cities very nice, you strangle R$ growth, which threatens everything.

    Another factor at play here, the simulator will try to grow the biggest and best if the conditions are right and demand exists. But that doesn't mean the things your city needs the most at that time. It's up to the mayor to decide where to add zones, to grow those things of most use. If you are really struggling with this, raising the tax for a particular type of zoning is a blunt instrument to kill or improve demand. But this wouldn't be my recommended strategy, since all demand is usually fulfillable, just that what the game can grow, isn't necessarily for the best or even helpful, that's one of the hardest things about the simulator. But from everything that's been documented, this behaviour was absolutely intended, you can't just zone a lot, place a load of plops and magic a successful region into being. The way all this works, is deliberately done to make things more challenging and reflect that the Mayor knows best, not the developers who want to build expensive R$$$ high rise, whilst your R$ sims are struggling to afford rent in your very wealthy city.

    This is also a good time to mention, the I-HT fix. A problem left behind in the game, means I-HT will never actually employ R$$$ sims, despite generating demand for them. You need to ensure you have a copy of the following essential fix, so I-HT will employ your R$$$ sims.

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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    1 hour ago, Naomi57 said:

    You might want to install just the NAM traffic simulator for now.  That way you only have one optional setup screen and you're done.

    I'm not sure if you can just use the TSEC as a stand-alone mod, I believe you should have some form of NAM install if that's going to work. @Tarkus, can you confirm this please?

    7 hours ago, chfzdn said:

    But, I'm on the best side and yet my industry is mostly I-M, clean I-M provided by CAMified IRM since yesterday to be exact. I-HT requires high desirability which needs residential amenities. Parks for short time, sure. But for long term, won't cut. So, a proper school and hospital coverage will be needed, which increases the cost which decreases the budget health, especially if you're (in the brink) of deficit and worst, your budget is in the hundreds or even just of thousands of simoleans.

    Right, but what I'm reading is "I want to consider myself at Best, when in reality I am only at Middle". I never get this, why the rush, SC4 hates it when you rush, you can ONLY be successful rushing, if you understand all the things you must have in place to make it sustainable.

    7 hours ago, chfzdn said:

    Side note: only 3% of my population is poor, largely due to commute and recently, CAMification. The rest are largely middle class and high wealth with poor-like concentration.

    If that is really true, sorry I'm having a hard time believing you can only have 3% R$ sims, that sounds like your game would be horribly broken if so.

    ==============================================================

    Let's look at I-HT and CO$$$ buildings, those which employ the highest number of R$$$ sims:

    I-HT - Hsu Accelerators, which employs 91 Sims.

    I-HT_Example.jpg.3da331a9a1453aff91afb080639ca96f.jpg

    I-HT lots are split between 10%/80%/10% of R$, R$$ and R$$$ workers, (10/78/12 or similar with I-HT fix). So this example of a highly developed Maxis I-HT lot, only employs in real terms say at most 11 R$$$ sims.

    CO$$$ - Hunt Enterprise Headquarters, which employs 7146 Sims.

    5fc8d1509426a_CO_Example.jpg.74c486d51617391748956cddbcde5ef7.jpg

    I deliberately took one of the largest CO$$$ buildings in-game for this example. But CO$$$ lots provide a job ratio of 10%/78%/12% (R$/R$$/R$$$). Thus this very large building, still only employs around 850 R$$$ sims.

    The idea that you can run a region with 3% R$ population, simply doesn't fit with the math here. You simply can not sustain these buildings without many R$$ and some R$ sims to work in them. Note too, I-HT and CO actually provide many more R$$ jobs than anything else. So whilst having a lot of these types of buildings, will ultimately lead to the highest possible high-wealth population, only a fraction of that population can ever be R$$$ or wealthy. Note too, you can't simply up and replace every CS job with CO ones either, in SC4 one thing leads to another. To have Stage 3 I-HT or Stage 8 CO$$$, you must have many lower stage buildings of the same time. There is a maximum proportion of each given zoning type that can be the biggest and best. Sure CAM does alter the specific figures, but still the general themes here, apply to all players.

    Your cities most likely fail and have problems with the budget, precisely because you seem unwilling to have the necessary R$ population the game was designed to work with. At it's core the way SC4 works is quite rigid, you can either work with it, mod your way free of the restrictions or take a third way... constant problems!

    • Like 4
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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    The Traffic Simulator Configuration Tool is included in the NAM download, and there's nothing preventing anyone from installing it without installing the rest of the mod.  Any sort of other fixes are intermingled in with the rest of the NAM . . . though we're looking at making "lite" or otherwise more "basic" releases in addition to the full-blast NAM, or at least making some mechanism to more easily get that.

    I'll also note, NAM 39 is on ModDB now (and should be up on the STEX soon).

    -Tarkus

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    Good point @rsc204. Your tips were among those which sent my budget balance in the green. :thumb: I still tend to be a little too eager actually... But I do plan upcoming expenses better. This alone allows me to stay at a positive monthly income, even if it sometimes drops to mere $40 (it recovers pretty quickly though!)

    @Naomi57 - I'm not really sure... how can an increase in capacity break the game economically? I did read about how buggy it may become in case of objects that existed prior to the modification, but you can just bulldoze them and put them back anew, right? What I'd like to try, is just a simple edit via "iLive Reader". Nothing more.

    I do not want to outright cheat and build only hydro. I'd like to be able to use a multitude of power sources while doubling their output. The problem I find annoying in SimCity series is a completely unrealistic resource capacity. It is completely unnatural for a town of 40k res. to be supplied by six coal power plants!

    But aside from that, I have two requests Guys... And again, just can't say how grateful I am for your support so far;

    1. Could you teach me how can I get the NAM Traffic Simulator (NAM lite) to work? :( Seems like a spot-on realism enhancement. Or is it enough to just install the entire plugin and the pathfinding fixes itself on its own?
    2. @rsc204 where can I find the I-H fix that you mention?

    P.S.:

    1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

    The way all this works, is deliberately done to make things more challenging and reflect that the Mayor knows best, not the developers who want to build expensive R$$$ high rise, whilst your R$ sims are struggling to afford rent in your very wealthy city.

    Again, this is a wonderful point. :thumb:

    • Like 3

    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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