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    Haha, NOW we're talkin'...

    (foliage and bush I mean)

    farmingtonmin_another3.jpg.dc0b694c99551176e4fa70ea434e7355.jpg

    Kudos to @SIM-ple Jack for pushing me in the right direction in my search for extra veggies.

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    I have quite a lot of problems with crime nowadays. My city of 35000 residents has 4 Police stations, including one large station. The entire city area is covered. Yet, it is still brightly colored in lots of "crime shades".

    I have recently put up a city jail (despite there being enough jail spaces in the police stations). Still, there is hardly any difference in crime intensity. I even have a few crime-"reducing" ordinances in place. For nothing!

    The goddamn gunfire and alarm bells at night drive me mad. What shall I do to reduce crime? Make a whole district of police stations? :hmph: :hmph: :angry: :angry:


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    10 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Make a whole district of police stations?

    Or, read this. *;)

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

    Are you new here? Check out the Introduction and Guide to Simtropolis.

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    Crime is most commonly a result of a lack of education. Non-educated Sims will probably not end up as CEOs ;) for example. Even if you do manage to have a very effective Police force, it’s rather unrealistic to expect no crimes whatsoever. But part of the mechanism for crime means if a crime isn’t thwarted, that leads to more crime (after all the criminal is still free). This can only happen if a crime is within the despatch radius of a police station and even then it’s not like 100% of crimes get solved.

    Another issue is that police can only go so far away from roads to search for criminals, this essentially means larger lots like Airports or the Country Club tend to become a magnet for crime. Use of better modded police stations and the Crime Doesn’t Pay mod will help with these things considerably. But a perfect crime-free utopia just isn’t something that’s realistically achievable in SC4. 

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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    16 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

    Crime is most commonly a result of a lack of education. Non-educated Sims will probably not end up as CEOs ;) for example. 

    That's understandable. The main city is covered by two elementary schools (one small, one huge), a high school and two libraries. What do you think about it? Or should I continue investing in education?


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    7 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I'm not sure what are you referring to Cori. What does it has to do with crime?

    It's an entire post about fighting crime. Seems the trouble is my admin permissions messed up the linky.

     

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

    Are you new here? Check out the Introduction and Guide to Simtropolis.

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    5 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

    It's an entire post about fighting crime. Seems the trouble is my admin permissions messed up the linky.

    That's ok. I found what you meant and edited the previous post. *;)

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    What do you think about it? Or should I continue investing in education?

    I believe everything is tied into the EQ (Education Quotient), although presumably on a tract by tract basis.

    To get the highest 200 EQ, you'll need at least one of every type of education facility, especially the college and university. You'll need to keep these facilities in good standing for a long period of time in-game, before your sims become very well educated. I'm not sure it's absolutely necessary, but the Main Library and Major Art Museum will help a lot at the higher end to eek out those last few EQ levels, but you'll need at least 5 libraries and 4 museums to unlock them. Likewise, the Opera House is another useful thing to have, although I recommend this fix for it. Another thing that's especially important for your R$$$ sims, is making use of the Private Schools, there are 3 or 4 of these, but you'll need a lot of other Elementary and High Schools to unlock them all. Again, I recommend a mod for these schools, because as they come with the game, they are prone to capacity issues.

    But whilst education is a large factor, you won't get rid of crime without also having a decent Police Force. You mention placing a Jail, even though your Police Stations could handle all the inmates, that won't actually help you and I believe it's also a NIMBY lot too. You only benefit from a Jail if your Police Cells are full, because, if there is nowhere to put criminals, they are just let loose and continue committing crimes. In the linked thread (Cori beat me to it), you can see the number of Police Stations, which for a city with 140k residents is pretty decent, although there are plenty of gaps in coverage:

    After.jpg.22fb0cc2504acde0ba1fb9abc90a8ff0.jpg

    Here is the same city's education system by comparison:

    Brimsby_EducationSystem.jpg.88aea176284ab3c5ec95fbb492c5279a.jpg

    My EQ is 189, but you can hopefully see how I've invested much more in Education over the Police force and with the mods mentioned, crime levels are very reasonable.

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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    I already got the "Crime never pays", but can't see that much difference. It is hardly normal for a shop district to suffer high crime rate when the large police station is just 160 meters away!!


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    It is hardly normal for a shop district to suffer high crime rate when the large police station is just 160 meters away!!

    Right, but if you think this way you are falling into the trap of thinking a simulation is anything more than a bunch of mathematical formulas, being applied, to give the impression of what's being simulated. It's those algorithms that have concluded there is high crime in that area. Does it have sufficient Police coverage, if so for how long? The way Crime works means if it gets rampant, it will take much longer to control and reduce crime overall, sort of like a half-life effect.

    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    already got the "Crime never pays", but can't see that much difference.

    No, but look at the difference my modded Police Stations make, it's less a cheat and more a fix really. By default, the Maxis Police Stations just aren't particularly good at catching criminals. A screenshot would probably help us to identify any conditions that might explain crime hotspots you have.

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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    17 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

    No, but look at the difference my modded Police Stations make, it's less a cheat and more a fix really. By default, the Maxis Police Stations just aren't particularly good at catching criminals. A screenshot would probably help us to identify any conditions that might explain crime hotspots you have.

    Good idea. I'll be happy to prepare some. I think your modification is very realistic too.

    IRL it is not all that normal for a police precint to be 0% effective at the outskirts of their jurisdiction. Police officers do not patrol an area within just a walking distance of their station.

    If they were sent to the far edge of their AOR, they would have worked just as efficiently should they deal with illegal activities. They are not some remotely-controlled cars that loose responsiveness when too far away. :hmph:


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    5 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    IRL it is not all that normal for a police precint to be 0% effective at the outskirts of their jurisdiction.

    Of course not. But in the world of coding, you have to boil everything down to math eventually. That means the system we have is based on tracts, hidden areas that gain or loose effects which define their status. Perhaps not the most realistic, but if you make things super-complex, the already huge number of calculations needed to keep the simulator working, easily balloons. Maxis IMHO did a wonderful job of balancing these aspects of the game’s design, evidenced by how far it holds up with the crazy things we take for granted that we can do with it today. 

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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    Ok, here is a crime layer shot of the entire city. I have to say I made some more education investments and let the clock run for a while. The situation seems to improve a little. Still, what about towns that can't afford expensive universities? Or towns that, simply said, are not built to be regional capitals? :lost:

    As you can see in the picture, there are two spots where the crime simply refuses to drop. Even though one of them is located in the overlapping police protection area.

    By the way, don't bother with the upper-right corner area. I decided to leave it that way. Plus, some of it is largely a subject for reconstruction.

    crimeneverpays.JPG.82c031be9e6c6d3531d27c5fe6b44bb9.JPG

    The city currently has:

    1 Large medical center, 1 clinic
    1 University
    1 High school
    1 Large elementary school
    1 Elementary school
    1 Local branch library
    1 Museum

    All maintaining a surplus capacity. Current EQ is about 120.

    On a different note, I'd like someone to offer an explanation to the following absurd:

    what1.JPG.8f36497712a7a7da9b0c87d0be957be2.JPGwhat2.JPG.8ce41d2015a2506896d3fd2dda783970.JPG

    3000 vehicles pass this commercial center each day and they suffer from the lack of customers?!!

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    That looks like very little crime really.

    No red spots, and most of the crime seems to be on larger lots, which the Vanilla police have trouble with.

    No idea on the low customers for that particular lot though.

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    6 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I have quite a lot of problems with crime nowadays. My city of 35000 residents has 4 Police stations, including one large station. The entire city area is covered. Yet, it is still brightly colored in lots of "crime shades".

    I have recently put up a city jail (despite there being enough jail spaces in the police stations). Still, there is hardly any difference in crime intensity. I even have a few crime-"reducing" ordinances in place. For nothing!

    4 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I already got the "Crime never pays", but can't see that much difference. It is hardly normal for a shop district to suffer high crime rate when the large police station is just 160 meters away!!

    6 hours ago, rsc204 said:

    Crime is most commonly a result of a lack of education. Non-educated Sims will probably not end up as CEOs ;) for example. Even if you do manage to have a very effective Police force, it’s rather unrealistic to expect no crimes whatsoever. But part of the mechanism for crime means if a crime isn’t thwarted, that leads to more crime (after all the criminal is still free). This can only happen if a crime is within the despatch radius of a police station and even then it’s not like 100% of crimes get solved.

    Another issue is that police can only go so far away from roads to search for criminals, this essentially means larger lots like Airports or the Country Club tend to become a magnet for crime. Use of better modded police stations and the Crime Doesn’t Pay mod will help with these things considerably. But a perfect crime-free utopia just isn’t something that’s realistically achievable in SC4. 

    Looking in INGRED.INI, at what game properties exist under the hood, backs up @rsc204's assertions about education, and reveals more besides.  Here's some of the more interesting sounding ones, shown in the INGRED.INI excerpt quoted below:

    • "Police, Min Acceptable Funding Percentage"
    • "Police, Max Acceptable Crime Level"
    • "Police, Conviction Percentage"
    • "Police, Unfailed Criminal Efficiency Percentage"
    • "Crime, R$: EQ -> Base Criminality Curve"
    • "Crime, R$$: EQ -> Base Criminality Curve"
    • "Crime, R$$$: EQ -> Base Criminality Curve"
    • "Crime, R$: Jobless ratio -> Criminality Curve"
    • "Crime, R$$: Jobless ratio -> Criminality Curve"
    • "Crime, R$$$: Jobless ratio -> Criminality Curve"
    • "Crime, Criminality -> Crimes Curve"
    • "Crime, Police Protection -> Crime Attenuation"
    • "Crime, Crime Grid Decay Factor",           "Example: 0.5 means values get halved every month", ...
    • "Crime, Criminal Grid Decay Factor",        "Fraction (0 to 1.0) of unjailed criminals that will commit crimes next month"
    • "Zone Purpose Filter", "Zone purpose types compatible with crime"
    • "Crime Grid Value",    "The crime grid tract value will be increased by this amount"
    • "Trigger Fire",        "If set to non-zero value, this will trigger a fire"
    • "Lot Condition Filter", "Lot conditions compatible with crime"
    • "Relative Occurrance", "Relative occurance weight of this crime, only has meaning relative to values for other crimes."
    Quote

    INGRED.INI
    ...
    ;0x68ddae91 = ..."Police, Update Period",               "In days. See ISC4PoliceSimulator.h", ...
    ;0x68ddae94 = ..."Police, Min Acceptable Funding Percentage",       "0.0-100.0, See ISC4PoliceSimulator.h", ...
    ;0x68ddae96 = ..."Police, Max Acceptable Crime Level",    "See ISC4PoliceSimulator.h", ...
    ;0x68ddae98 = ..."Police, Conviction Percentage",                 "0.0-100.0, See ISC4PoliceSimulator.h", ...
    ;0x68ddae99 = ..."Police, Unfailed Criminal Efficiency Percentage", "0.0-100.0, See ISC4PoliceSimulator.h", ...
    ;0x68ddae9d = ..."Police, Property Crimes Value Ratio",           "See ISC4PoliceSimulator.h", ...

    ; police station building properties
    0x48d71ed0 = ..."Police Station, Center Strength",             "(in Protection units)", ...
    0x48d71ed1 = ..."Police Station, Exterior Strength",           "(in Protection units)", ...
    0x48d71ed2 = ..."Police Station, Radius",                      "(in meters)", ...
    0x48d71ed5 = ..."Police Station, Total Dispatches",            "(number of trucks this station can send)", ...
    0x48d71ed9 = ..."Police Station, Dispatch Center Strength",    "(in Protection units)", ...
    0x48d71eda = ..."Police Station, Dispatch Exterior Strength",  "(in Protection units)", ...
    0x48d71edb = ..."Police Station, Dispatch Radius",                     "(in meters)", ...
    0xcc0b0705 = ..."Police Station, Total Copter Dispatches",     "(number of police helicopters this station can send)", ...

    ...
    ;Crime Simulator properties
    0xe8ec2720 = ..."Crime Update Period",                       "How often the Crime simulator updates, in days", ...
    0xe8ec2721 = ..."Crime Police Factor",                       "Crime Police Factor", ...
    0x49a34301 = ..."Crime Prop Request Curve",                             "Crime level (0-1) vs. Prop Share", ...GeneralResponseCurveFormatter, 0
    0x8a0cbaa3 = ..."Crime, Jobless Indicator Smoothing factor",                 "", ...

    0x8a0cbaa4 = ..."Crime, R$: EQ -> Base Criminality Curve",                 "", ... GeneralResponseCurveFormatter, 0
    0x8a0cbaa5 = ..."Crime, R$$: EQ -> Base Criminality Curve",                "", ... GeneralResponseCurveFormatter, 0
    0x8a0cbaa6 = ..."Crime, R$$$: EQ -> Base Criminality Curve",               "", ... GeneralResponseCurveFormatter, 0
    0x8a0cbaa7 = ..."Crime, R$: Jobless ratio -> Criminality Curve",           "", ... GeneralResponseCurveFormatter, 0
    0x8a0cbaa8 = ..."Crime, R$$: Jobless ratio -> Criminality Curve",           "", ... GeneralResponseCurveFormatter, 0
    0x8a0cbaa9 = ..."Crime, R$$$: Jobless ratio -> Criminality Curve",           "", ... GeneralResponseCurveFormatter, 0
    0x8a0cbaaa = ..."Crime, Criminality -> Crimes Curve",                 "",  ... GeneralResponseCurveFormatter, 0
    0x8a0cbaab = ..."Crime, Police Protection -> Crime Attenuation",           "", ... GeneralResponseCurveFormatter, 0
    0x8a0cbaac = ..."Crime, Crime Grid Decay Factor",           "Example: 0.5 means values get halved every month", ...
    0x8a0cbaad = ..."Crime, Criminal Grid Decay Factor",        "Fraction (0 to 1.0) of unjailed criminals that will commit crimes next month", ...

    ;Crime types
    0xaa12fcb0 = ..."Unknown Crime", CrimeFilter, "Crime Name",          "", ...
    0xaa12fcb1 = ..."Icon Resource Key",   "type, group, and instance ID", ...
    0xaa12fcb2 = ..."Zone Filter",         "Zone types compatible with crime (none == can appear in any zone)", ...
    0xaa12fcb3 = ..."Wealth Filter",       "Zone wealth values compatible with crime (none == can appear around any wealth)", ...
    0xaa12fcb4 = ..."Zone Purpose Filter", "Zone purpose types compatible with crime (none == can appear around any purpose)", ...
    0xaa12fcb5 = ..."Crime Grid Value",    "The crime grid tract value will be increased by this amount", ...
    0xaa12fcb6 = ..."Trigger Fire",        "If set to non-zero value, this will trigger a fire", ...
    0xaa12fcb7 = ..."Lot Condition Filter", "Lot conditions compatible with crime", ...
    0xaa12fcb8 = ..."Relative Occurrance", "Relative occurance weight of this crime, only has meaning relative to values for other crimes.", ...
    ...

    I don't need the Crime Doesn't Pay mod.  I learned how to manage crime from years playing SC4 vanilla, no mods at all.  Here's the principles I learned:

    1. City Jails are intolerably noisy.  The Federal Prison is much quieter!  *:yes:
    2. Educated sims commit fewer crimes.
    3. Crimes committed outside police protection radius will definitely not be caught.  :nyah:
    4. Crimes that are not caught, encourages the criminals to commit more crimes.  :dead:
    5. If there are more prisoners than jail cells, the prisoners are then released before they are "rehabilitated".
    6. Any lot or plop can be a location for a crime, except that I've never spotted a crime committed on landfill!  *:lol:
    7. Crimes don't occur on roads or highways, or trees, only on lots and plops.
    8. Some lots are more likely to have crimes than others.  Large lots are extremely likely to have crimes!!!
    9. Excellent road access to all sides of large lots helps reduce crime.
    10. Small populations doesn't have crime.  Large populations have heaps of crime.
    11. Conviction percentage (on the Crime graph) is a major driver for future criminal activity.
    12. As soon as crimes start occurring, you need to have full Police protection.  Each month without Police coverage indoctrinates more criminals into a life of crime.  :O

    Looking at that INGRED.INI property, "Jobless ratio -> Criminality Curve", I wonder if that's a factor in my success at keeping crime under control.  I get really, really sad when I see unemployed sims with No Job Zots, so I consider one of my primary jobs as mayor to ensure that every sim has a job.  From that "Jobless ratio -> Criminality Curve" property, that might have reduced my criminal population substantially!

    Almost all my police stations were Deluxe class, too.  Looking at the properties under the hood, they provide more powerful police protection, so worth the money spent.

    The whole issue with large lots was always a problem for me, playing SC4 vanilla, even with a flood of Police stations, and I'd get occasional messages of "Undercover Cop Unearths Den of Crime".  I learned to just ignore those messages, like many of the other messages from the SC4 Advisors.  Check Crime data view and Crime graph — those are much more informative than the advisors.

    Since downloading mods, I found myself a mattb325 police station I liked, which is modded to be more effective fighting crime in large lots, so I very rarely get "Undercover Cop Unearths Den of Crime" messages now.

    I found explanations by some of our illustrious modders, rsc204, mattb325, and RippleJet, extremely informative:

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    34 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    what2.JPG.8ce41d2015a2506896d3fd2dda783970.JPG

    3000 vehicles pass this commercial center each day and they suffer from the lack of customers?!!

    That's a large lot, 6x6 is that right?

    For large commercial lots like that, you need to surround them with traffic on 2, 3 or even 4 sides.  You'd be pretty lucky to get High customers with traffic on just one side.  You'll likely get better results there with a series of 2x3 lots along that road.  3x4 lots might work, but even that would be iffy.  The smaller the lot, the closer the centre of that lot is to the road in question.

    For commercial large lots, you can also build traffic with a busy through track of elevated light rail at the back of the lot.  That might work really well in this case.  Busy road at front, and busy elevated rail at back, might be enough to raise your Customer levels for the lot.

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    3 minutes ago, Naomi57 said:

    For large commercial lots like that, you need to surround them with traffic on 2, 3 or even 4 sides.  You'd be pretty lucky to get High customers with traffic on just one side.  You'll likely get better results there with a series of 2x3 lots along that road.  3x4 lots might work, but even that would be iffy.  The smaller the lot, the closer the centre of that lot is to the road in question.

    Is this happening because "noise" aka customers only extends 3 tiles from its source network?

     

    So a 6x6 with traffic on only one side will have half the lot with no customers, averaging out the lot to "low".
    2 sides will cover 3/4 the lot, and you need at least 3 sides to fully cover it.
    And 4 sides will help increase the overall customer count further, because the noise fields overlap at corners?

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    56 minutes ago, Matrim Cauthon said:

    That looks like very little crime really.

    No red spots, and most of the crime seems to be on larger lots, which the Vanilla police have trouble with.

    I guess it has to be due to the "last-minute" changes to the educational policy then. Looks like it took effect pretty quickly!

    31 minutes ago, Naomi57 said:

     

    1. City Jails are intolerably noisy.  The Federal Prison is much quieter!  *:yes:
    2. Educated sims commit fewer crimes.
    3. Crimes committed outside police protection radius will definitely not be caught.  :nyah:
    4. Crimes that are not caught, encourages the criminals to commit more crimes.  :dead:
    5. If there are more prisoners than jail cells, the prisoners are then released before they are "rehabilitated".
    6. Any lot or plop can be a location for a crime, except that I've never spotted a crime committed on landfill!  *:lol:
    7. Crimes don't occur on roads or highways, or trees, only on lots and plops.
    8. Some lots are more likely to have crimes than others.  Large lots are extremely likely to have crimes!!!
    9. Excellent road access to all sides of large lots helps reduce crime.
    10. Small populations doesn't have crime.  Large populations have heaps of crime.
    11. Conviction percentage (on the Crime graph) is a major driver for future criminal activity.
    12. As soon as crimes start occurring, you need to have full Police protection.  Each month without Police coverage indoctrinates more criminals into a life of crime.  :O

    Cool list @Naomi57. I'll keep an eye for that.

    I also have to thank you for guiding me through the intricacies of commercial well being and "virtuous cycles". Now, all of the commercial areas in this city have high amounts of customers and seem to flourish. I have yet to see the skyscrapers but I hope I'm on the right track.

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    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    4 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    If they were sent to the far edge of their AOR, they would have worked just as efficiently should they deal with illegal activities.

    I believe IRL this is exactly true that the outer edge of coverage would be less effectively covered. Someone living 10 miles from the police station calls in reporting a burglar in their home. Now, on average, it's going to take some time for the squad car to get there. In those few minutes said burglar could've finished the job and already be fleeing the scene.

     

    2 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    3000 vehicles pass this commercial center each day and they suffer from the lack of customers?!!

    In addition to @Naomi57's detailed posts, keep in mind the game data is stored in a tract based matrix and those tracts are blocks of 4 x 4 cells of a city tile which are defined from the upper left corner. So, you could have high traffic in one tract and this barely affects an adjacent tract. That's why some things which seem obvious visually aren't really because of how the hidden game mechanics work. Using her method of surrounding it with high traffic makes sure the building and the traffic noise for at least some of the networks are in the same tract as the building.

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    9 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

    those tracts are blocks of 4 x 4 cells

    !!

    Okay, that's a solid bit of information there.

     

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    4 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

    I believe IRL this is exactly true that the outer edge of coverage would be less effectively covered. Someone living 10 miles from the police station calls in reporting a burglar in their home. Now, on average, it's going to take some time for the squad car to get there. In those few minutes said burglar could've finished the job and already be fleeing the scene.

    I have to respectfully disagree. *;)

    This is not correct. Police are generally sent out on patrols and scout their entire AOR.

    If a callout comes in, the unit nearest to the place of interest is sent out and makes an attempt to resolve the situation. Your example would suggest that police officers sit at the station until something happens, which is entirely untrue. :noway:

    Of course, there might be a situation when there are hardly or no units in the vicinity but they are extremely rare. It's generally up to senior officers and their departments to ensure an effective schedule for day-to-day operations.


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    2 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    This is not correct. Police are generally sent out on patrols and scout their entire AOR.

    Yes. They are.

    But lets supposed they are patrolling an area that's a 10 mile radius from the station and they have 4 cars. Are you suggesting that at least one of those within the 63 square mile coverage area will always be within a minute or two of any random crime? Seems unlikely to me. *:P

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    4 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    This is not correct. Police are generally sent out on patrols and scout their entire AOR.

    If a callout comes in, the unit nearest to the place of interest is sent out and makes an attempt to resolve the situation. Your example would suggest that police officers sit at the station until something happens, which is entirely untrue. :noway:

    While this is true, the area increases in line with the inverse squared law, meaning that the area at the edges is exponentially larger than the central area.  Unless there are enough patrol to keep them both equidistant and evenly distributed, the odds are that a response near the edge would take significantly longer than a call near the central area, because there is simply less area to cover.

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    You both seem to forget that jurisdictions in a big city are neatly seamed together and are not circle-shaped like in SimCity series. *:lol: A border of one is a start of another.

    Unless it is coutryside that we are talking about. *:no:


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    13 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

    Yes. They are.

    But lets supposed they are patrolling an area that's a 10 mile radius from the station and they have 4 cars. Are you suggesting that at least one of those within the 63 square mile coverage area will always be within a minute or two of any random crime? Seems unlikely to me. *:P

    314 square mile area really. 63 miles should be the circumference.

    Of that area, only 78 square miles are in the inner 5 mile radius. The outer 5 miles contains the remaining 236 square miles.

    You could split all 5 zones (Center, N/S/E/W) into 78 Square mile sectors, and cover all with equally with 5 patrols... but even then most calls within the central sector will be closer to the outside sector patrols than most outside calls would be.

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    2 minutes ago, Matrim Cauthon said:

    314 square mile area really. 63 miles should be the circumference.

    Oh. Yeah. *:blush:

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    36 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    You both seem to forget that jurisdictions in a big city are neatly seamed together and are not circle-shaped like in SimCity series. *:lol: A border of one is a start of another.

    Unless it is coutryside that we are talking about. *:no:

    Less forgetting and more that this just isn't modelled well in Sc4.

    The closest equivalent to this in Sc4 would be reducing the Police station budget to limit it's patrol radius to only a few blocks and them having a patchwork of stations to fill in the gaps. Essentially they are cutting out any zone too far away to be effective and building more stations to provide coverage in those zones.

    SC4 pretty much takes a middling approach , where it models better response times in the central area and relies on overlapping edges to simulate "full coverage" for multi station approaches.

    It seems a pretty realistic approach for a non-agent based simulation.

    That said, I'm pretty sure simulating juridictions is why a lot of "urban" style custom police departments have short coverage radii and zero coverage drop off from the station.

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    4 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

    I believe IRL this is exactly true that the outer edge of coverage would be less effectively covered. Someone living 10 miles from the police station calls in reporting a burglar in their home. Now, on average, it's going to take some time for the squad car to get there. In those few minutes said burglar could've finished the job and already be fleeing the scene.

     

    In addition to @Naomi57's detailed posts, keep in mind the game data is stored in a tract based matrix and those tracts are blocks of 4 x 4 cells of a city tile which are defined from the upper left corner. So, you could have high traffic in one tract and this barely affects an adjacent tract. That's why some things which seem obvious visually aren't really because of how the hidden game mechanics work. Using her method of surrounding it with high traffic makes sure the building and the traffic noise for at least some of the networks are in the same tract as the building.

    What about 4x8 lots? Or even larger lots like 12x12? Or, 20x20? Especially the limit of lot size is 64x64.

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    2 hours ago, chfzdn said:

    What about 4x8 lots? Or even larger lots like 12x12? Or, 20x20? Especially the limit of lot size is 64x64.

    My guess is that as long as some part of the building is in the same tract as a network with high traffic, it'll be fine. Prolly best to test that in the game.

    Keep in mind the game as designed by Maxis doesn't have commercial lots that large. *;)

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    On 03/01/2021 at 7:13 AM, CorinaMarie said:

    In addition to @Naomi57's detailed posts, keep in mind the game data is stored in a tract based matrix and those tracts are blocks of 4 x 4 cells of a city tile which are defined from the upper left corner. So, you could have high traffic in one tract and this barely affects an adjacent tract. That's why some things which seem obvious visually aren't really because of how the hidden game mechanics work. Using her method of surrounding it with high traffic makes sure the building and the traffic noise for at least some of the networks are in the same tract as the building.

    Thank you, Cori.  Yes, my description of "adjacent traffic" is a slight oversimplification, to avoid talking about tracts, because:

    1. Tracts make the conversation more difficult.
    2. I haven't dug in to how the tracts work yet.
    3. The "adjacent traffic" rule of thumb generally works.
    4. I don't like keeping track of tracts.  *:lol:

    The problem, is that the "adjacent traffic" rule of thumb doesn't always work for large lots.  It's easiest to see on an AVE-4, where one carriageway gets lots of morning traffic, and the other carriageway doesn't get much return traffic morning or evening ... with traffic preferring to return via another route.  The busy side of the AVE-4 might support 3x4 large lots, whereas the quiet side prospers better with 2x3 lots, or even 1x2.

    On a similar very busy avenue in a different part of the city, the quiet side of the avenue prospers just as well as the busy side of the avenue.

    This is amplified even further using 3x4 lots on diagonal avenues, and I think it's because the centre of the 3x4 lot is one tile further from the avenue.

    Diagonal Avenue commerical plan.png

    The centre of the commercial lot seems to be where the Traffic Noise = Customers calculation is performed.  Alternatively, it could perhaps be an average of all tiles in the 3x4 lot, but I get the impression it's the centre of the lot that is the key factor.

    What if the centre of your commercial lot is in an entirely different tract from that busy road?  I've seen that many times before, where a 3x4 gets Low Customers, and rezoning to a 2x3 gets High Customers, even with a busy highway almost on the doorstep.  The one tile larger, or one tile further away, can easily make the difference between High Customers and Low Customers.

    Reorienting from 3x4 vertical (north facing) to 3x4 horizontal (west facing), can make a similar difference in customer levels.

    In this weird case near one of my lazy sunken highways in Breezy Point, it was increasing the size of a lot (2) below, that increased the lot's customers from Low to High Customers.

    5ff280d25204f_BreezyPointSunkenHighwayCustomers(z900annotated).jpg.3474ce77dbe90584edd689212e5231d5.jpg

      EDIT 4TH JANUARY:  Added yellow square indicating the tract and Query.txt coordinates for some of the lots.  

    This one is super-curious.  The sunken highway doesn't have that much traffic, but at the time, the OWR-4 ferry loop in the north-west corner was not doing well, so the sunken highway was my only consistent source of customers.  I found that by rezoning the highway adjacent lot (1) to 2x3, and increasing the OWR-4 adjacent lot (2) to 3x4 size, that it could siphon off some of the "customers" from the sunken highway ... even with the 2x3 lot between it and the highway!  *:idea:

    :)

    On 03/01/2021 at 12:11 PM, chfzdn said:

    What about 4x8 lots? Or even larger lots like 12x12? Or, 20x20? Especially the limit of lot size is 64x64.

    Mega lots are easier for industrial than for commercial.  For large industrial lots, police access, fire access, employee access, and freight access are the only big issues.

    For large commercial lots, the likelihood that the centre of an 8x8 lot would have any traffic in the same tract would be zero.  I get the impression truly extreme levels of traffic can propagate through to a second tract, but I wouldn't count on it.  Residential traffic noise seems to propagate much more easily than High Customers, which is rather curious.

    Here's a visual depiction of the 4x4 tract system.  I get the impression that certain properties, such as High Pollution, High Customers, and High Crime, are recorded in SC4 by tract.  I've never bothered to draw the 4x4 grid over my cities, however!  *:no:

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