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2 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

Hmm, sounds good but I guess what I really want to ask is - is this normal? *:???:

If it is, is there any way to encourage growth without a monthly cost attached...?

Yes, this is normal, but this is MUCH easier when you know how it works.  There's six potential issues I see here:

  1. The general need for a little bit of basic public transport in your city, and this is probably the biggest issue you've got.
  2. The benefit of "bonus" desirability effects, mentioned by @Matrim Cauthon.
  3. Assisting specific commute routes between home and work, ... the "easy commute" prosperity effect.
  4. Commute to a neighbour city for work.
  5. Zoning sizes, medium density works best with 2x3 lots, and high density works best at 3x4 lots.
  6. Letting the game clock run for 3 months, or a year.  Do you know about Rhino and Cheetah game-speed modes?  Don't wait for the game to run on Turtle speed!  :zzz:

You can try giving them their bus stop, and then taking it away again after medium density builds.  If you start getting No Job Zots, and your population levels are going up and down, then you will know that the public transport is too important to take away.  Population levels going up and down is an indication that sims are moving into your city, and rapidly moving out again.  That's a big deal, one chief sign of an unstable economy in which nothing grows.

The problem here, and this is important .... the bus stop is likely to be the one service that makes living in your city satisfactory for them.  In that case, the bus service may be the one thing that will stabilise and grow your economy.  Public transport is almost essential for R$ medium density, and heartily appreciated by R$$ and R$$$ medium density.  The higher the density, the more that public transport is essential.  This reminds me of one of @rob_mtl's tutorial videos.  If you find well-planned tutorial videos helpful, let me know and I'll go find it.  *:yes:

Bus stops (or other public transport) are as essential as water.  Yes, you can have unwatered residential and commercial districts, but they will remain humble.  A city without any public transport will remain humble.  A few bus stops in your medium density residential, and bus stops inside easy walking distance of the highest density workplaces, can breathe life into a small town.

If the bus stops are very busy, they will make more money in bus fares than the §5 per month it costs to maintain each bus stop, and they will bring more residential and commercial tax dollars, too.  This is an investment toward future prosperity, and a well positioned bus service can even become a cash cow government monopoly, truly.  *:yes:

Bus stops also help sims to travel to a neighbour connection, to get a job in the neighbouring city.  Have you got a connected neighbour city with a similar variety of residential, commercial and industrial?

2 hours ago, Matrim Cauthon said:

You can actually just delete the station in a month or so if it's not needed for you transit network. The bonus effect is temporary, though the plus from a short trip to the bus station will remain.

@Matrim Cauthon is quite right, a bus stop plopped and bulldozed, even bulldozed immediately, gives you a "bonus" desirability effect which is beneficial to every kind of new development.  I do it frequently, and think of the money spent in plopping and bulldozing the bus stop as a marketing campaign to extol the virtues of the area.  You can literally see the effect in the R$$$ Desirability view, but it also has strong effects on all residential, all commercial, and (eventually) I-HT, too.

I ran tests on this bus stop bulldoze effect, and published the results in the comments under @CorinaMarie's most excellent tutorial on the subject.

 

On 28/03/2020 at 6:13 AM, Naomi57 said:

In my experience of growing R$ tenements, transient aura effects are extremely useful, so I agree with @CorinaMarie on this one.

I think of it like a PR campaign, §150 for shiny bus stop + §10 for bulldozing, all to improve desirability.  You can even do it twice on the exact same tile (or even three or four times).  Here's the Bus Stop plop and bulldoze in R$$ Desirability view.

5e7ebca5d2b3d_BusStopDesirability1.jpg.c6ab22e0b4448bf419a2dc587fd4429f.jpg5e7ebcb257b07_BusStopDesirability2.jpg.2d47e705d3f1f804ee65d269e9d53834.jpg  

Inside 1 month, the transient aura boost shows up, and you can repeat the Bus Stop plop and demolish for a second transient aura boost.

5e7ee0ba77955_BusStopDesirability3.jpg.1e581d6461c0b559b29ee2203fb7cc24.jpg5e7ee0dd3f39f_BusStopDesirability4.jpg.ae15c610903f064e893aba66c66752ba.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

is there any way to encourage growth without a monthly cost attached...?

31 minutes ago, Naomi57 said:

a well positioned bus service can even become a cash cow government monopoly, truly.  *:yes:

If I've got the calculation right , the break-even point for bus stop profitability is 167 bus route tiles per day, per bus stop.

e.g. A bus route of 30 tiles, with 2 bus stops (one at work and one at home), with just 6 sims travelling the route back and forth each day:

§0.001 per tile in fares (refer TSCT fares)
x 30 tiles of bus route
x 6 sims
x 2 trips a day (morning and evening commute)
x 30 days in a month (do sims get weekends?)  :noway:
= §10.80 in fares per month
less §10.00 monthly maintenance (§5 per bus stop per month)
= §0.80 profit  *:D

I'm sure you can convince more than 6 sims to use your bus stops.  :}

PS.  Do make your bus routes direct, home to work.  Sims really don't like travelling out of their way, even with the NAM.

PPS.  You'll need 2 more sims on board if sims really do get weekends.  I never did find out if they do or not.  *:???:

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27 minutes ago, Naomi57 said:

Letting the game clock run for 3 months, or a year.  Do you know about Rhino and Cheetah game-speed modes?  Don't wait for the game to run on Turtle speed!

One thing I'll put out there, In my experience Cheetah seems to trade off simulation precision for speed.
Occasionally you can use this to get extra development going(the simulator appears to que the construction before realizing it's overshot the real demand), but this isn't always desirable as it can lead to abandonment or dilapidation.

So when advancing time to update the Traffic sim, or are doing delicate RCI work, I like to stick to Rhino or lower and reserve Cheetah for when I need funds :P
 

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3 hours ago, Matrim Cauthon said:

One thing I'll put out there, In my experience Cheetah seems to trade off simulation precision for speed.

Yes, I've heard this from too many people to discount it.  I think it depends on hardware, what else is running, features turned on, settings and configuration.

The full economic simulation works in Cheetah speed almost perfectly for me, almost as good as Rhino, provided I have my PC running in High Performance mode (Power Management Settings) ... but the full economic simulation doesn't work in Cheetah so well for me if:

  1. My anti-virus kicks in a system-wide scan ... I really should schedule these to run overnight instead!
  2. If I have memory and CPU hungry web pages in my browser, such as news articles with lots of very demanding looping animated advertisements.
  3. If I have too many other applications running at the same time as SC4.
  4. If I haven't rebooted for too long!
  5. If I don't have my Windows Power Management set to High Performance mode.

If I'm doing something particularly delicate with employment or commuting or a fragile economic situation, I'll use Rhino, just to be 100% certain of getting the best results.

I'm using this command line.

"C:\GOG Games\SimCity 4 Deluxe Edition\Apps\SimCity 4.exe" -intro:off -w -r1280x1024x32 -CustomResolution:enabled -f -gp -CPUCount:1 -EH:off

Some provisos ... 

  • I've got Hardware Rendering turned on in the SC4 Graphic Options.  When I was using Software Rendering, I'd turn lots of my Visual Effects settings Off or Low.
  • I've got automata set to Low.
  • I've got hardly any mods, aside from the full NAM install.
  • I'm using a 2014 vintage server tower, so I'm guessing it might have a bigger motherboard cache, but it's only using HDD, not SSD.
  • I've got quad-core dual processor with 32Gb RAM.  While SC4 is only using a single core, it means that other apps running on my PC can use the other cores, rather than stealing CPU cycles from the core servicing SC4.
  • My graphics is laggy.

 

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7 minutes ago, rob_mtl said:

Hey @Naomi57! What do  -gp- and -EH:off do in your command line?

I just posted about -EH:off, in the support thread.  *:yes:

-gp is supposed to be "Game Pause" to send SC4 to sleep while other applications are in the foreground, but I notice my SC4 still keeps running regardless!  I like the idea of -gp but not sure why it's not doing what I expect it to!  *:???:

With the single processor machine I had back in 2012, I'm pretty sure -gp really did send SC4 to sleep while other applications were in the foreground, but it certainly doesn't now.

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Currently: Viewing Topic: Calling All Volunteers!
 

Some more excellent insight shared in this thread. *:)

It's quite interesting about Cheetah speed and how system performance can affect the completeness of calculations in the simulation.

It makes perfect sense from a logical perspective on that front, because when other background processes are running, there is less resource allocation for SC4 to use. I remember when I first started playing the game, and I'd commonly use Cheetah speed with the aim to grow my big city very quickly. I was impatient and wanted it to happen sooner without the waiting around. I thought to myself: "Come on skyscrapers, where are you?!"  But alas, they didn't listen. No matter how much I made a plea for them to build, I didn't have success using this method. But now I know better than to do this, and instead only run like a Cheetah for short bursts on occasions.

I recall our beloved @A Nonny Moose affirming how SC4 is a simulation to absorb and take in. To look at the animations, develop slowly, and realise the true intricacy in how everything interacts and unfolds. Considering this, there's no reason to rush, since SimTime is defined by nothing other than our own free time.

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I use a fairly uncommon option, or at least one I don't see mentioned much

-BackgroundLoader:off

It changes how the game loads textures during a zoom level or rotation change. Default is on, turning it off forces the game to load all the textures at once instead of streaming them in.

If you have very few mods, or are heavily datpacked this can be a much nicer transition, avoiding the weird texture lag that can happen.

But this only works well if you can load them fast enough, too slow of a time and the application can hang for period of time so this really isn't for everyone.

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14 hours ago, Matrim Cauthon said:

One thing I'll put out there, In my experience Cheetah seems to trade off simulation precision for speed.
Occasionally you can use this to get extra development going(the simulator appears to que the construction before realizing it's overshot the real demand), but this isn't always desirable as it can lead to abandonment or dilapidation.

So when advancing time to update the Traffic sim, or are doing delicate RCI work, I like to stick to Rhino or lower and reserve Cheetah for when I need funds :P
 

I don't know this fact. I used to cheetah every time. Thanks for the info.

 

20 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

Careful: If you're editing the Traffic Simulator, then you're in conflict with the NAM.

To clarify, the install process will be same as I-HT fix, overwriting the dat. Ofc, backups are recommended or required.

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    @Naomi57 - Whatever you and @Matrim Cauthon say, sounds very reasonable and useful. However, I tried to put three bus stops throughout the town and...

    One of the lines clearly goes out of the town and the bus stop that provides this service receives 480 passengers. Yet, there is one 2x3 lot and one 1x3 lot which simply refuse to grow. :nyah: Even after shoving the bus stop right under their noses, just across the street.

    I've been able to force the 1x3 lot to grow only after bulldozing the R$$ house that occupied it. Only then, a 38-people capable building did rise from the ground.

    Desirability is not a problem - every inch of land is green, across the whole spectrum (except for R$$$).

    There are, however, 650 cars outgoing at the city limits (situation as it is without buses)...

    Yes. But adding three bus stops does not help these several lots to grow. The population is stable at 2400 people with monthly fluctuations being no greater than 10 people. So as you can see it's very stable. *;) Could be 2500 though...

     

    10 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

    Considering this, there's no reason to rush, since SimTime is defined by nothing other than our own free time.

    I actually always play on turtle speed. *:thumb: Would gladly play "1 in-game = 1 RL" if it was possible. *:lol:

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    52 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    One of the lines clearly goes out of the town and the bus stop that provides this service receives 480 passengers.
    ...
    There are, however, 650 cars outgoing at the city limits (situation as it is without buses)...

    Yay!  That's exactly what you want.  *:ohyes:
    Some sims prefer to work inter-city.  The commute rules for inter-city are different to the rules inside your city.

    That route with 480 sims riding a bus out of your city, or 650 cars, is perfect for starting the development of commercial zones, because 480 sims is enough to prime an avenue with retail traffic.  If parts of the avenue are outside police protection radius, then you'll want to plop a Police station somewhere along the avenue, and then zone commercial along the avenue, something like this:

    5fc9bec9ae34f_Ccivicsplan.png.eb80efdd212b52f5f472a35c7cbb9c8f.png

    See how the Police Station and Bus Stops and Plaza are situated a short distance away from the avenue, leaving maximum avenue frontage for shops.  That's one of my preferred organisational methods for commercial avenue zoning, though you might prefer a different approach.  You might want to think about placement of major intersections, too, with an eye to thinking ahead.

    Best hold off with plopping a Fire Station, High School, Museum, Private School, and Plaza, until you have city budget for those things, but you might like to reserve space for them, if you think there's a good spot for them there.

    Growing retail along this avenue with 480 sims passing each day, is one good way to start a virtuous cycle of increasing prosperity.  *:D  The more commercial jobs, the more sims will want to come and live in your city.  With increasing prosperity, comes more choices and options for the city's future.  

    :bunny:

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    Great. Finally some good news @Naomi57*:P

    But I think this is a little too much. *:lol: I specifically want this town to be almost exclusively a farmland with a developed med-residential area and some small shops. "Startville" the town located West from "Farmington Minor" (which is being discussed here) is more impressive. That wee bit stagnant med-residential is the only thing which bothers me.

    I am actually tempted to share this region with you... But I do not wish to steal your precious time (you've helped me a lot already) so do let me know, objectively, if you'd like to have a look.

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    4 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    But I think this is a little too much. *:lol: I specifically want this town to be almost exclusively a farmland with a developed med-residential area and some small shops. "Startville" the town located West from "Farmington Minor" (which is being discussed here) is more impressive. That wee bit stagnant med-residential is the only thing which bothers me.

    In that case, yes, tone it down.  You might want to just zone some retail along that avenue heading out of town, just up to the edge of your current police protection radius.  Think of it as the new supermarket and farm supplies centre, with a few eateries, used car yard, and petrol station ... though, sadly, we can't just summon which lots will grow.  *:no:

    The "wee bit stagnant med-residential" is probably going to continue to be an issue, until you have commercial jobs, either in this city, or in the city next door.  Establishment of Avenue-frontage retail is how the virtuous cycle or commercial development starts, and for that you need to prime an avenue with retail traffic.  If you only have a little bit of commercial, then it will be a very, very small virtuous cycle, which will probably slow down before you want it to.

    In case it gives you any ideas, here's a map of one of my 64x64 small cities, Hendrix Creek.

    5fd888b5a587c_HendrixCreek-CivicBuildingsTraffic.png.30edc2c390c1c7f3d7c66c5b16866974.png

    The residential is clustered in globs around schools and hospitals.

    The commercial zones line the higher capacity arterial roads, avenues, and highways, where there's high levels of passing sim traffic on their way to the office, or to the next city, via the intercity highway or the intercity ferry terminal.

    A wee little bit of industrial filling in the gaps around the other neighbourhoods.

    Here is the same city, Hendrix Creek, at simdate Jan'22.  That's year 0022, not 2022.  *;)

    5fd89d216cfa6_HendrixCreekJan22.jpg.461510e7b37ef24f9b14cb00b3e1f1f8.jpg

    The commercial zoning at the southern intercity highway is more shiny than the commercial buildings at the northern intercity highway.  Partly that is because of the landfill in the north-west corner, but also because the neighbour city to the north doesn't exist yet, so there's not much traffic at the northern end.  I've got work to do!  *:yes:

    10 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I am actually tempted to share this region with you... But I do not wish to steal your precious time (you've helped me a lot already) so do let me know, objectively, if you'd like to have a look.

    I am honoured, though I have to confess that installing the region will eat into a different capacity which I have in short supply, focus.  I have attention deficit disorder (ADHD), so while focus comes and goes, it is capricious and turns up for some things and not others.  Focus arrives often for me with certain kinds of writing and chatting and analysing and problem solving, as you've seen here, but is in rare and short supply for activities like installing stuff.

    That's part of the reason I am glacially slow to install new mods.  In a weird kind of way, it hurts.

    What would be wonderful for you to do, is take a few screenshots of your city, save to .JPG format, and drag and drop into the message thread here.  We'll all be delighted to see how your Startville and Farmington Minor are getting on.  *:ohyes:

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    Ok. I see what you mean, great example images! So what I get is basically this:

    1. Commercial should generally be zoned for last (once we get a gist of where the traffic goes)?
    Bye, bye pre-planned commercial districts?
    2. Commercial won't grow just through sheer demand - it needs traffic?
    3. Commercial success = denser R development? (what about industrial success?)

    A yes or no answer will do. *:yes:

    I also noticed that I have managed to kickstart several tiles by planting two parks, right in the middle of the neighborhood. This was the reason why I thought there might be something wrong with my game, as usually the first cap relief sits at 20000 Sims, so parks should not have so much influence in a 1500 town...

    1 hour ago, Naomi57 said:

    I am honoured, though I have to confess that installing the region will eat into a different capacity which I have in short supply, focus.  I have attention deficit disorder (ADHD), so while focus comes and goes, it is capricious and turns up for some things and not others.

    Never been diagnosed with this state, but I do have ADHD leanings, so I completely understand your position. Thank you for your candor. *:yes: To make matters worse, I am also a "diagnosed" INFJ. *:lol:

    I'll make a few shots when I get back from work (oops... exhibit "A").

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    11 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    1. Commercial should generally be zoned for last (once we get a gist of where the traffic goes)?

    You'll get better at planning and predicting for traffic flows when you've done a few more cities.  You will!  *:yes:

    12 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Bye, bye pre-planned commercial districts?

    For your first few cities, yes, bye bye, but only for a little while.  This is part of the challenge (and delight) of the game.

    13 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    2. Commercial won't grow just through sheer demand - it needs traffic?

    Yes, commercial very much tends to go bankrupt without traffic.  Low traffic = low customers.  >.<:dead:

    A new highway bypass of a commercial district can spell doom, just like IRL.  :cry:

    16 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    3. Commercial success = denser R development? (what about industrial success?)

    Yes, high density commercial and high density residential very much tend to go together.  There's ways around that, but they are creative and tricky!

    All industry profits and grows demand from completed freight trips to the city border, and it profits more with short freight trips, and does better with short commute for their workers.

    • Dirty Industry grows like weeds ... you might have noticed that!  :nyah:
    • High Tech is like a dainty flower, needing well educated R$$ population and low pollution, and it's more profitable with local parks, and low traffic noise.
    • Manufacturing is in-between, does better with a little bit of education, mostly R$ workers, handles moderate pollution but not high pollution, but is pretty tolerant and generates MUCH less pollution than Dirty does.
    20 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I also noticed that I have managed to kickstart several tiles by planting two parks, right in the middle of the neighborhood. This was the reason why I thought there might be something wrong with my game, as usually the first cap relief sits at 20000 Sims, so parks should not have so much influence in a 1500 town...

    This might be the same desirability effect that we talked about with the bus stops.  It's called the "Transient Aura Effect", and only a small part of it shows up in the Desirability views ... it's very powerful but only lasts for a few sim-months after plopping.

    It might also be the "Park Effect" that you observed.   Parks tend to be over-powered in the game, so @CorinaMarie has reported her sims getting excited even over an Open Grass Area:ooh:

    The 1x1 Small Park Green is my favourite park, because while cheap, it doubles with a good "Landmark Effect" for Commercial prosperity, too, as well as "Park Effect" for Residential.  It looks a little different each time you plop it, and it blends well beside all sorts of roads and highways.

    The 1x1 Small Plaza has the most potent "Landmark Effect" (for Commercial prosperity) of all the 1x1 plops, and Small Plaza has 4 TIMES the CAP relief of a Small Park Green, but YES, you don't need that early in the game.  Demand CAPS are one part of the growth equation; demand drivers tend to be the harder one to provide.

    35 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    To make matters worse, I am also a "diagnosed" INFJ. *:lol:

    Ahhhh, yes, for some reason, I've got the INFJ one, too.  *:idea:  

    I used to be INTJ, and have to say that was easier to live with.  The change from T to F was not intentional on my part!

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    1 hour ago, Naomi57 said:

    @CorinaMarie has reported her sims getting excited even over an Open Grass Area:ooh:

    They must have come from Magnasanti. :nyah:

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    22 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I started a new city and it currently sits at 2080 residents. And it won't budge any further from there... Despite there still being underdeveloped space in the medium-density

    The city might be at a low stage whose available buildings don't intersect with the spaces you have zoned (or capacities don't match current demand).

    Also look at appeal.

    And sometimes the game just needs the clock to run so it can digest other recent development.

     

    23 hours ago, Matrim Cauthon said:

    It's probably wiser to directly edit NAM's traffic simulator dat. No conflict risk

    Any new mod made from that exemplar is going to conflict with the NAM regardless of how it's made. I recommend caution at least; better would be to collaborate with the NAM team to discuss and possibly incorporate the "enhancement".

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    -- Jeff Fisher ><> Vancouver WA
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    Just to let you all guys know how my towns are doing. Any observations and comments are welcome.

    Here are some shots of "Farmington Minor" (East);

    farmingotnminor_birview.jpg.9de74bd3c700b7bdc3f8fe41304691d6.jpg

    farmingotnminor_traffic1.jpg.d08a45dcd7e3fea69ded5e926fff69d5.jpg

    farmingotnminor_traffic2.jpg.8af2324b58ce90969fa5ba8763d1cf94.jpg

    farmingotnminor_traffic3.jpg.c8a064e86bae278ce1c6c248b2d475b7.jpg

    farmingotnminor_yuno.jpg.33e48f1066c00d4864564ece00583ea5.jpg

    farmingotnminor_budget.jpg.571e8f6b4326c43f25c2ac86e5c70ecc.jpgfarmingotnminor_demand.jpg.fae9616b88b2f904c0e3dffd5b0618bd.jpg

     

    And here's "Startville" (West). I got lazy. Only two screens:

    startville_birview.jpg.af73621dcbcab93f1422cfe4403bd733.jpg

    startville_traffic1.jpg.f94ce8a8cde3953b1183cadbfd7f0f03.jpg

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    Nobody replied yet? Good. (I mean it. *:D)

    I should have probably mentioned that the state of these two towns has acuelly (wink, wink) changed yesterday after I played them a bit more. @Naomi57 tip to add a few bus stops has not taken any effects for about three years... until, apparently, it finally did.

    After I grabbed my coffee, I was relieved to return to the computer and see that the "y u no" lots have evolved and turned into R$$ 76-cap buildings. The population in Farmington Minor rose to 3000 residents.

    Not sure if this was the bus magic that has finally provoked this development. *:???: Perhaps some minor extra amenities and an actual polstat played a role too. As far as the latter is concerned, I put it in hesitantly as there is hardly any crime to fight in this village. Luckily, most of it stays away from the shops and is generally going on in the fields (by the way - have you ever managed to make a graffiti in a rye? Me neither... if Sim wants, Sim gets.)

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    Currently: Viewing Forum: Simtropolis Recovery Project
     

    Looking good and the size of the apartments seems to be on par with the (presumed) size of your region atm.

    In addition to the bus stops effects, going back and forth between city tiles, running time, and saving allows the information from each to be propagated to the other. That then gives the equivalent of both acting together as if they were one single unit with regard to demand and jobs and such.

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

    Are you new here? Check out the Introduction and Guide to Simtropolis.

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    3 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    farmingotnminor_yuno.jpg.33e48f1066c00d4864564ece00583ea5.jpg

    startville_traffic1.jpg.f94ce8a8cde3953b1183cadbfd7f0f03.jpg

    I can see you have an eye for the aesthetic, and a desire to give your sims the very best.  That will work very well for you over time.  Your concept of a central square is very refreshing to see in a new player.  First towns usually resemble a rigid grid or a chaotic ramble, whereas yours has features combining organic growth along with a feeling of organised community allegiance.

    I'd be really tempted to flag those two blue huts in the park "Historical", to keep them forever, with the fiction of making them park keepers dwellings, or something.  I'd also be tempted to try my bulldozer on those two lots you've got arrows too, but I'm guessing you gave that a go already?  Very frustrating!  :lost:

    As a matter of urgency, I think we need to introduce you to a fellow named Paeng, who is famous in these parts for his parklands.  I haven't tried these out yet, but they look amazing, and I hear many, many good reports.  This is more important than all the rest!

    That tag shortlists Paeng's various park mods.  Please don't delay!  I'm sure you're gonna love it, and we'll all be wanting more screenshots from you.  *:ohyes:

    3 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Here are some shots of "Farmington Minor" (East);

    farmingotnminor_traffic3.jpg.c8a064e86bae278ce1c6c248b2d475b7.jpg

    I am just so itching to zone some more commercial along those routes out of town.  :uhm:

    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    The population in Farmington Minor rose to 3000 residents.

    Not sure if this was the bus magic that has finally provoked this development. *:???: Perhaps some minor extra amenities and an actual polstat played a role too.

    I agree with @CorinaMarie that the back and forth between neighbour cities, running the clock a bit in each, along with the sims getting used to having a regular bus service, makes a big difference.  The cooperative aspects between cities across a region are often overlooked.

    The police station was probably part of the difference, too.  I've seen that before.  Sims feel safer, even if the only crimes are very petty ones.

    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I put it in hesitantly as there is hardly any crime to fight in this village. Luckily, most of it stays away from the shops and is generally going on in the fields (by the way - have you ever managed to make a graffiti in a rye? Me neither... if Sim wants, Sim gets.)

    Painting the roses red is something I can understand, but graffiti in the rye?  *:kitty:

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    5 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

    I can see you have an eye for the aesthetic, and a desire to give your sims the very best.  That will work very well for you over time.  Your concept of a central square is very refreshing to see in a new player.  First towns usually resemble a rigid grid or a chaotic ramble, whereas yours has features combining organic growth along with a feeling of organised community allegiance.

    I'd be really tempted to flag those two blue huts in the park "Historical", to keep them forever, with the fiction of making them park keepers dwellings, or something.  I'd also be tempted to try my bulldozer on those two lots you've got arrows too, but I'm guessing you gave that a go already?  Very frustrating!  :lost:

    Thank you @Naomi57. It is very nice to hear something like this from a more experienced player.

    Indeed, I do consider SimCity (be it 3000 or 4) as a type of art. The normally practiced form of which I am currently deprived of, due to technical reasons. My city arrangement is likely the substitute for this.

    The "y u no" buildings have been, regrettably, plowed over. :] The handsome, blue ones have indeed been made historical - you read my mind! *;)

    5 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

    That tag shortlists Paeng's various park mods.  Please don't delay!  I'm sure you're gonna love it, and we'll all be wanting more screenshots from you.  *:ohyes:

    Just what I needed! *:ohyes: I have to admit I browse our page mainly for trees and rural items these days. Thank you for this valuable suggestion.

    But first (still *;)) I need to solve a little problem... I have downloaded this building, but it never shows up in my game! *:???: And I am sure I have enough R$$ zones to support some of those. All of the files are there in the "Plugins" folder as well. I'm not sure what might be wrong here...

    Also, I have had enough... I will download @CorinaMarie's NKO mod by the close of the week. My towns are small but are already getting overrun by a bunch of vermin that the predatory R$$$ devs are. :angry:

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    On 12/15/2020 at 11:02 AM, jeffryfisher said:

    Any new mod made from that exemplar is going to conflict with the NAM regardless of how it's made. I recommend caution at least; better would be to collaborate with the NAM team to discuss and possibly incorporate the "enhancement".

    Not if you're directly modifying NAM, the exemplar already exists in the Zsimulator so you just need to switch that one boolean.

    Turning on walking traffic might have some unintended consequences, but it's not going to conflict with itself.

     

     

    Edit: To be clear, I'm suggesting directly editing the file instead of creating a new file(mod) to affect the change.

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    The NAM weaves as the NAM wills

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    Another thing is that I removed the southern road in Farmington Minor to funnel traffic through the "shopping alley"... to my personal dismay and a serious blow to the town's aesthetics. :P

    Still, the commercial establishments are not growing bigger, despite them being medium density. But I guess this is due to the town's specifics and low population - there are simply not enough people for these businesses to hire.

    farmingtonmin_another2.jpg.95670993ce9e35730bc831334a8d5086.jpg

    • Like 2

    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    13 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    The "y u no" buildings have been, regrettably, plowed over. 

    I read that those finally grew some apartments, but looking at the maps has made me think of something else.

    You might have been running into a stage growth cap where you didn't have enough smaller housing to support a full circle of apartments. Since your Region population is low your stages are going to be restricted.

    This quickly goes away as your R$ population increases, but when you only have a few thousand your stage 4 and above residential buildings are fairly heavily restricted. Only so many stage 4+ buildings will grow(they won't grow at all until you get over ~1000 R$ in the region) until you have more. 

    At ~1200 R$ only 18% of your capacity can be Stage 4.
    At ~5000 R$ ~64% can be stage 4 to 6.
     

    R$$ and R$$$ are more limited, Needing ~2400 to have the same 18% limit, or 20,000 to reach a 64% for stages 4 to 6.

    It's mostly something you run into very early when you region population is low, or later game when you're trying to get multiple stage 8's to grow.

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    Hmmm... I'm really tempted to cheat my way through this one... :uhm:

    Is there any *cough*, *cough* overpowered *more coughing* mod that will completely get rid of all the garbage in the city?

    The reason I ask... I don't think it is entirely realistic for a small town to have a landfill, incinerator or the like. In fact, even for a big city it is not realistic to have the previously mentioned items in each neighborhood/borough...

    This is generally the only problem that I can see with the region mechanics in SimCity 4.

    I think it would be great to have a mod that could let us pick one of the region's areas and have all the garbage from the entire region go there. Otherwise, I feel forced to either adorn each of my small cities with ugly garbage disposal facilities, or create some very complicated and challenging "chain deals" that are the only way to transport garbage to some remote parts of any given region.

    IRL, garbage is sometimes transported many, many miles before it is actually dumped. SimCity 4 makes me feel as if I was forced to pollute all of my cities, despite, clearly, wanting most, or at least some of them, pristine... :(


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    9 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I think it would be great to have a mod that could let us pick one of the region's areas and have all the garbage from the entire region go there

    No mod needed, you can do this in vanilla via neighbor deals. I like to build small "handling" lots that range from 2x2 to 5x5 next to a highway connection, freight rail or really anywhere close by the logical exit point for garbage in that tile, or at a central gather point neary by if it's a multicity tile.


    Now that said there various waste handling lots that can greatly alleviate or eliminate garbage. Give me a few minutes, and I'll list some here:

    1. SM2's Trash barge is nice as it's a water plop. It doesn't move, but it provides a decent reduction in trash and can be placed multiple times.

    https://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/32950-sm2-trash-barge-a/

    2.  This is probably overkill, but it's a neat lot that can handle huge quantities of trash, essentially all tossed into a hole in the ground. SM2's "The Pit"

    https://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/32555-sm2-the-pit/

    3. The classic, venerable PEG Chute. It takes up 2 tiles, can handle tens of thousands of sims and is conceptually hilarious to boot.

     

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    27 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Is there any *cough*, *cough* overpowered *more coughing* mod that will completely get rid of all the garbage in the city?

    Cori's Garbage Suppression Ordinance.dat

    Enable it via the Ordinances. *;)

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

    Are you new here? Check out the Introduction and Guide to Simtropolis.

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    6 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:
    6 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Is there any *cough*, *cough* overpowered *more coughing* mod that will completely get rid of all the garbage in the city?

    Cori's Garbage Suppression Ordinance.dat

    Enable it via the Ordinances. *;)

    I'll have a sticky beak inside that ordinance one day.  I've got some ideas for ordinances I want to make, too.  *:ducky:

    I lived in a small town and farming community for a year, so while the landfill was not apparent at all to town visitors, I eventually learned where it was.  >.<*:lol:

    Another option, is to turn the landfill into a decorative feature.  One of my favourite Cori screenshots is this one ... of landfill!  In fact, the whole thread is worth looking at, beautiful!  :wub:

    https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/758654-acocfpalbn-its-farm-stuff/?tab=comments#comment-1724455

    On 24/01/2020 at 11:21 AM, CorinaMarie said:

    Then there's the Garbage Town you may have noticed way off in the corner:

    08a - I5 - Garbage Town.jpg

    Yes, you can zone enough landfill to last 100 years, and then plant trees on it.  *:yes:

    Cori calls it "the Garbage Town", because she discovered that the landfill area doesn't actually have to be connected to any of the other roads.  Garbage trucks collect it from all over the city and then teleport to the street in "Garbage Town".  I think these are the vital ingredients of a "Garbage Town":  (Cori, please correct me if I've missed anything!)

    1. A good large area of landfill, remembering you can't move filled landfill once you've chosen a site.
    2. Trees to plant in the landfill portions not being used.
    3. Far, far away from any commercial, high tech, or R$$$!
    4. One house, one workplace, and one windmill.
    5. A small strip of street to connect the one house, and one workplace, to the landfill.

    If you don't like a square landfill, best zone it larger and then snip out the bits of it you don't want using the Dezone tool, much as you seem to already be doing with your farms.  Unlike real-life, SC4 landfill is completely non-toxic, with no air pollution, no water pollution, just a special fragrance.  *;)

     EDIT and WARNING:  Before doing any landfill snipping and shaping, read Cori's advice below! 

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