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1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

Can that arrangement eventually develop a 3x3 building (rejoin)

Absolutely, it's possible for any standard sized zoned area to be re-combined, if things don't go how you want you can always re-zone things later. I've never seen the simulator do this for anything larger than a 6x6 lot, the largest growable Maxis included, but the conditions have to be right for such things to happen.

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Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

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On 05/12/2021 at 8:29 PM, TheMurderousCricket said:

Let's say that I zone residential tract which is 3x3 total but gets divided into two lots. One 2x3 and one 1x3.

Can that arrangement eventually develop a 3x3 building (rejoin) or do I have to specifically dezone and ctrl-force a 3x3 lot?

Absolutely, the property developers of SC4 will both subdivide and amalgamate lots, but there are a few conditions:

  1. The amalgamated lot must be square or rectangular, and deliver a lot size suitable to your installed growables, demand, and growth stage.  e.g. A 4x3 might amalgamate at a slightly earlier growth stage than a 3x3, particularly for high density residential R$$ and R$$$.
  2. The lots being amalgamated must have the same density zoning.
  3. If you have Cori's No Kickout mod installed, the lots being amalgamated must have the same wealth level.

I actually use zone density striping to control how amalgamation can occur.  Set and forget.  The zone striping helps ensure that later amalgamations occur more neatly, less chance of leaving an odd little row house amongst the residential high rises, or a lost little shop among the office blocks.

5ff5a1f6c037f_ConvertCAVE-4toRHW-4Plan.png.e4ed5bc6046787413302a7353b5280d4.png61289b3666444_DDRHW-4xAVE-4interchange(wZonesLines).jpg.8ba8de189ab2a57456e7d5c2c3304889.jpg602d325c9b483_CampRockaway-SchoolsHospitalZones(Feb10).jpg.e54582cba4f929895e77efc966704f47.jpg

Here's another approach I take to avoid subdivision, a 3x3 or 4x3 lot is readily subdivided, but a 3x4 lot cannot be subdivided in the vanilla game.  On the downside, if your demand and growth stage doesn't allow for many 3x4 lots, they may just sit empty for a long time.

5feaa0c6168a4_RHW-2arterialcommercialplan.png.7c981d72f0c78666e85cb7b7dd011464.png

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@TheMurderousCricket

Very well said, and I completely agree with your sentiments. It's why those of us see SC4 as much more than just a game. *:yes:

The brilliance is indeed due to the freedom of creativity which the game platform allows. There aren't constraints which control how or where we should build our cities. That choice is given to each of us as mayors to develop however we wish, for whatever we aspire to create. It is true there is no end goal, which means any limits are only defined by our own personal objectives. After one city there can be a new village, and following one region there can be another landscape.

There is a sense of heightened satisfaction to achieve a development in any shape or stature. Then when looking back to admire one's creation, it can be realised how it's unique for what we've made, before letting imagination flow for our next mayoral journey.

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On 1/29/2022 at 3:43 PM, TheMurderousCricket said:

Hello Dear Community,

This time I'm here to just yap-yap for a while, speaking out of my mind. *;)

I'd just like to say, that after about two years of playing SC4, I genuinely believe that this is one of the most interesting passions I have ever come across. Although it sometimes required a lot of time, modding and downloading stuff, I think not a single second of SC4-related activity is to be considered "lost".

SimCity has given me a chance to stay creative. These days, I have hardly any ideas or valuable concepts in other areas of my artistic hobbies. I don't really know why. :uhm:

But since I'm here I became both an accomplished urban planner and a writer. *;) It's really fun to play SimCity, because it has huge replay value. It also makes me feel that I actually leave something behind myself. Rather than waste hours on some stupid Resident Evil or Detroit that YouTube overflows with these days... Games that leave no permanent trace when played or completed are pretty boring and disappointing if you ask me.

"Completed" being the key word, as SimCity cannot be "completed" or played the same way twice, which is why it's so appealing. A never-ending CJ is my idea of "leaving a trace" and staying interesting. *:thumb:

This is exactly how I feel about playing the game, and you're on the same journey as I have been from the looks of it *:thumb:

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    Time to add another stamp in this "journal" of mine. *;)

    Today, I have a question (or a rant really) regarding the growth stages that dictate the... height? Of our cities.

    Usually, if I want to recall how something works, I just open up Prima Guide and search answers for my questions there. As far as the growth stages go, unfortunately, I believe it is totally broken or at least incomplete.

    I wanted to know how much of the 7, 8-stage buildings are there in the region of, let's say, 280000 residents. But I couldn't! Why? Because the guide's info on growth stage percentages is cut at about 125000 Sims. :angry:

    st_chart.jpg.edd0006b623cc49c4a0e78a48067ffd2.jpg

    So? The hell does this actually mean!? That even if I'm well beyond 125267 residents, 20% of skyscrapers around my city is the most I can ever have? :hmph: That's complete absurd!

    Or is this table simply lazily and confusingly cut, omitting the values for larger population counts?

    If the latter is true, do you have any information for some other iterations? Like...

    280 000?

    360 000?

    500 000?

    1mln?

    Thanks in advance.

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    17 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    That even if I'm well beyond 125267 residents, 20% of skyscrapers around my city is the most I can ever have? :hmph: That's complete absurd!

    Indeed the table is complete and yes there is an upper limit for the percentage of stage 7/8 buildings.

    CAM values probably allow some wiggle room, but even then I doubt you could ever have full stage 15 coverage, that’s very much unrealistic perhaps with the exception of New York and some cities in Asia. To me 20% of the very tallest buildings seems like overkill, but then I’m in Europe so that tallies for anyone making European cities. 

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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    6 hours ago, rsc204 said:

    I’m in Europe so that tallies for anyone making European cities. 

    Well, I'm also from Europe but since I do want to build a New York-styled city... *:lol:

    Well, that's disappointing then, because I hoped for a somewhat higher rate. 40% would be better.

    Any way to modify it?

    EDIT: Guess one could possibly downgrade stage-8 buildings by one, perhaps two steps with iLives, though I believe that would somewhat interfere with other mechanics at work.

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    1 hour ago, Fantozzi said:

    Sorry for being so incredibly late. Two years I guess?

    You can't be late in this topic. It just goes on and on and on. *;)

    I'm always willing to absorb your powers and soul Mortal Kombat style learn from other people's playstyles and hints. Even if I can't find any use for a given resource, the chances are someone else might stumble upon this topic and learn something new, so thanks! Good contribution.

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    6 hours ago, Fantozzi said:

    Sorry for being so incredibly late. Two years I guess?

    I once wrote an introduction for beginners. It's the Fantozzi style - maybe even more confusing than the real stuff. But maybe fun. Didn't get much feedback so I'm not shure if it's really helpfull.

    Try it on your own risk!

    https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=18402.0 

     

     

    Reminds me of the joke of a man sitting completely drunk an a bar yelling: "Happy New Year!"

    And the bartender smirks: "What are you talking about.? It's Pentecost gone."

    And the man responds: "Yuck. So my wife will be really mad at me. I never came home this late."

    I just read this little hidden gem. Good job. Maybe it's a bit dated as some things have changed.

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    Another interesting observation I made that might probably start a new discussion. I really hope it would, cause I'm a little lost really. :nyah:

    I have been attempting to have one of my cities run on the energy made entirely with the help of W2E incinerator and it's not going well...

    Previously, the city required about 470 MWh to get everything powered. However, now that the incinerator is in place I simply can't get enough power for my Sims, no matter how much do I bump the W2E funding. It takes a crazy 780 Simoleons a month to make the W2E incinerator produce the same amount of energy that used to be available at a cost of mere 88$ before and by the means of a neighbor deal!

    This, actually, is not the first time I've been experiencing the W2E strangeness. A similar problem was apparent in one of my other cities where I was getting constant brownouts as soon as a costly W2E started to operate. As soon as the plant was getting bulldozed, the brownouts in the entire city stopped occurring and everything was back to normal...

    Can anyone shed a little light on what exactly is going on in here? I'm starting to think this is some kind of a really evident bug. If, however, this is caused by me misunderstanding the way in which W2E works, do let me know what am I doing wrong.

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I have been attempting to have one of my cities run on the energy made entirely with the help of W2E incinerator and it's not going well...

    Previously, the city required about 470 MWh to get everything powered. However, now that the incinerator is in place I simply can't get enough power for my Sims, no matter how much do I bump the W2E funding. It takes a crazy 780 Simoleons a month to make the W2E incinerator produce the same amount of energy that used to be available at a cost of mere 88$ before and by the means of a neighbor deal!

    Hmmm... that is strange. The only thing I can think of is this: if not enough garbage gets produced, the less power a W2E plant can produce. This is why powering a city with W2E plants alone can be quite tricky (if not possible). 

    Spoiler

    I very rarely use landfills (if I do, it's for a temporary buffer). Once I can afford a W2E plant, I build it and call it a day. Once garbage starts to accumulate again, I check to see if the incinerator's 'health' is diminishing. If it is, I knock it down and rebuild it. If it's 'health' is fine, I build another W2E.

    This requires either:

    A) willing to take a $1,000 expense at the beginning of a city [if you place it in then]
    B) a good, balanced budget in which you can afford the $1,000 expense {I never bother dropping the funding on them}
    C) an expansion of either residential, commercial, and/or industry areas to make up for the cost

     

    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    This, actually, is not the first time I've been experiencing the W2E strangeness. A similar problem was apparent in one of my other cities where I was getting constant brownouts as soon as a costly W2E started to operate. As soon as the plant was getting bulldozed, the brownouts in the entire city stopped occurring and everything was back to normal...

    Can anyone shed a little light on what exactly is going on in here? I'm starting to think this is some kind of a really evident bug. If, however, this is caused by me misunderstanding the way in which W2E works, do let me know what am I doing wrong.

    That's odd! I have never ran into that issue myself. (edit - are power lines connected to the zones or is close enough to a building?)

    To quote the SC4Devotion Wiki: "A bug in the game means that the funding for these plants can be lowered to the minimum, meaning that it will produce no power, minimal pollution and cost nothing, but still consume the maximum amount of garbage as if it was fully funded."

    (If you're only seeing around 470 MW/h demand, you could use some windmills or a natural gas plant for power [coal is cheaper, though], and then exploit the game's bug to use the W2E for garbage only! [I haven't used the exploit yet, as 5,000 MW/h is 5,000 MW/h])

    That's the only bug I know of... so you may have a lead on something there! However, I am not an expert on this, so this could be a known issue or there could be a fix.

    I think Cyclone Boom or Cori (once she returns!) might be able to help here, too!

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    Once you play with NAM installed, one simply cannot go back!

    I'm waiting for the day when someone makes a Faber College lot for SimCity 4  :lol:

    IMG_3716.jpg.7fe0b78e164e258bac5afb32dc9f9588.jpg

     

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    7 minutes ago, TogaMasterJohn said:

    "A bug in the game means that the funding for these plants can be lowered to the minimum, meaning that it will produce no power, minimal pollution and cost nothing, but still consume the maximum amount of garbage as if it was fully funded."

    Yes, I am indeed familliar with this exploit but never used it yet. *;)

    I did assume that the amount of garbage produced (or, in fact, the fuel here!) might be the cause for the high maintenance cost of the plant. If we consider that the supply for this given "commodity" is scarce, that would explain this issue.

    It would not, however, explain why adding a W2E thrusts the entire power grid onto rollercoaster tracks with rampant brownouts all over...

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    9 hours ago, TogaMasterJohn said:

    Hmmm... that is strange. The only thing I can think of is this: if not enough garbage gets produced, the less power a W2E plant can produce

    It looks like you were right about that. *;)

    Here's a quote from the Prima Guide that I have found...

    Screenshot_2022-08-03-09-15-03-1.png.192702e6b6b39919deb976f7ed4dfcba.png

    So it looks like the W2E cannot indeed "spread its wings" if the amount of garbage received is small.

    What can we do then? Discourage citizens from being Eco, ban recycling and pack a single burger in eight wrappers. For the W2E! *:P

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    8 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    So it looks like the W2E cannot indeed "spread its wings" if the amount of garbage received is small.

    Sadly. I wonder if someone has a made a lot or something that generates a lot of garbage each month to cover that.

    Definitely a 'cheat' to some, but in some cases (like stories for city journals, etc), something like that could possibly be helpful.

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    Once you play with NAM installed, one simply cannot go back!

    I'm waiting for the day when someone makes a Faber College lot for SimCity 4  :lol:

    IMG_3716.jpg.7fe0b78e164e258bac5afb32dc9f9588.jpg

     

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    I made, what I believe was, a risky test.

    I wanted to check if I can change the name of the folders in which some of my plugins reside. I simply needed identifiable names for the two folders in question.

    I made a test run of a city in which I knew I had some of the buildings and plops that could potentially be affected. As it turned out, they have all been intact and working properly. *:yes: Plopping another building from the now-renamed folder has been successful too.

    So it seems that it is possible and no harm is done when a folder in the Plugins directory changes name. This is important news if one wishes to rearrange their content into new groups / categories.

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    7 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    So it seems that it is possible and no harm is done when a folder in the Plugins directory changes name. This is important news if one wishes to rearrange their content into new groups / categories.

    One thing that should be kept in mind though is that certain plugins need to load in a particular order. Sometimes a plug-in might have a 'Z' at the beginning of the file name so can it load in last. For those plugins, it's best to leave them be in their own folder, put them in a a special 'Z' folder, or carefully structure them in the root of the Plugins folder. It really all comes down to the plug-in.

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    Once you play with NAM installed, one simply cannot go back!

    I'm waiting for the day when someone makes a Faber College lot for SimCity 4  :lol:

    IMG_3716.jpg.7fe0b78e164e258bac5afb32dc9f9588.jpg

     

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    8 minutes ago, TogaMasterJohn said:

    One thing that should be kept in mind though is that certain plugins need to load in a particular order.

    Yes, absolutely - should have mentioned that probably.

    In fact I just had a problem with Free Waters Mod not working until I realized it has to run in the particular order you mention. Been a while though until I realized what was wrong, because I usually remove the readmes. :)

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    Aaaall right. I guess I'll pop this topic up with another question.

    I was wondering recently about the damage that super demand mods do to the cities they are applied in. I might be mistaken but logically speaking, I think that adding extra demand to some developer types is not detrimental.

    I understand that having unlimited drive for residential zones may be very bad as it would quickly cause unemployment issues.

    However, I can't think of any bad results of having super drive for any of the commercial or industrial developers...?

    Having an excess of skyscrapers or cheap shops may look goofy but I don't think that having them in high numbers derails the game mechanics. SC4 businesses seem to operate well even without employees. :) This seems to have even less influence on industry. Would it be correct?

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    Hmm,

    Overbuild commercial buildings may suffer from too few customers, causing abandonment, especially when there are no employees. 

    Industrial on the other hand are limited only by freight capacity of transport network. 

    So anyway, it looks like in modified games You can build city without any Sims. 

    Once (in very modded game) I created healthy, functional industrial zone with ~50 000 jobs and no single employee. Fully automated luxury communism:D

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    15 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I was wondering recently about the damage that super demand mods do to the cities they are applied in.

    From the reading I'd done during my first couple of years here I believed they'd throw everything out of whack. :O

    Then there was a completely unrelated question from @ColinM for their city called Suleburg and I offered to help troubleshoot if they shared the city tile with me. They did and I tracked down the issue, but along the way I found they were using the Plopmatic 9000 and so I wound up tinkering with that and playing scenarios in their city for several weeks and my conclusion was it was not disadvantageous at all.

    Ofc, it's cheating in the traditional sense, but that's fine if it's what you want.

    (They later uploaded Suleburg to the STEX. I don't recall if that version has the Plopmatic Plopped or not.)

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

    Are you new here? Check out the Introduction and Guide to Simtropolis.

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    I just noticed a rather puzzling thing and would like someone to shed a light on this...

    From what I can see in this map, this "Preston's Housing Projects", but also other educated R$ Sims in the area have an EQ in the near top, about 175 if I read the chart correctly.

    In this case, how is this possible that some of the R$ Sims from this building still work in I-D...? I am looking at the workforce chart right now, which I myself explained to another user and which I copied directly from the Prima Guide. From that chart, it is obvious to me that there should not be any Sims at all willing to work in dirty industry with their education quotient being so high. Perhaps I have gaps in my knowledge... Any idea what's up with that?

    work.jpg.3815659f7c68287e6b404830e375f7af.jpg


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Any idea what's up with that?

    I believe it is mostly they do not change jobs unless something forces them to. 

     

    @Fantozzi asked similar questions here and I concluded with:

    On 8/18/2017 at 5:35 PM, CorinaMarie said:

    My conclusion at this point is that the amount of education in and of itself doesn't determine where they will work. It's not unusual for these farm workers to be hoeing weeds whilst discussing the finer points of quantum theory. :ooh:

    And you could scroll up to the top in that thread. (It was a 505 year education experiment I did long, long ago.)

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

    Are you new here? Check out the Introduction and Guide to Simtropolis.

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    In this case I resonate with @Fantozzi's sentiment when he says that EQ levels are meaningless - working only as pole vault bars and not the actual trigger that forces Sims to dynamically change their job, depending on how educated they are.

    I made an experiment in which I tagged some of the high-EQ buildings which work in I-D to see what happens if I destroy the industrial facilities they work in. In many cases, they still picked an I-D zone a little father away (theoretically impossible from what Prima Guide attempts to claim) over the new CO zones located roughly same distance away. :whatevs:

    I believe that either Prima Guide or the game is written incorrectly. Other possibility is that they both didn't make their respective confessions consistent. :whatevs: Otherwise it is simply pointless to procure this huge table with all types of developers, all types of EQ and claim that a Sim cannot when, in fact, they will. Even if something indeed changes in the city...

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    2 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I believe that either Prima Guide or the game is written incorrectly.

    This was from the era when the physical book had to be ready to ship the same day as the final program. :uhm:

    It reminds me of a Dilbert comic from long ago in one of the collections books. PHB is telling Tina the Tech Writer that she needs to have the User Manual complete in time to ship with the product. She complains that the program isn't even finished so there's no way she can make it accurate. Boss replies she'll have to guess. (Or something to that effect.) :whatevs:

    So I do suspect a lot of things were intended to function more expansively in the game, but were trimmed back in order to make the shipping date imposed by accountants sitting up in their ivory towers. :hmph:

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