Additional Public Transit

[R3V0 909]

31 minutes ago, RenAigu said:

@R3V0

Excited for some mixed use stations! (assuming you will add the metro track to RAI) 

Any chance the station in your previous reply is inspired by a Dutch station as well? It seems familiar, but I can't really place it. As for the one-way tracks, it would be nice if you'd publish a version of that station with the one way heavy rail tracks (if you weren't planning on that already). That station would then be laid out a lot like the upper part of Station Duivendrecht.

Hi,

The station in the previous message is 2track version of Dulles Airport Hub. I will also release a simple 2x1 track (as in the original) once we have one way track option.

About Amsterdam Rai, afaik i need to play with subbuildings enabler in order to have above metro and rail system together, if so, so be it. The project will be slower, since i returned to the university. I will post about the progress in its own separate thread. 

[wasmic 111]

@R3V0:

You don't need to play around with Sub-Buildings Enabler in order to have catenary rail and third-rail railways on the same station. I've edited an elevated station from the workshop to have a metro track underneath. All that's necessary to make this work is to draw the metro station track underneath the station, and then connect a pedestrian connection to it. Simple as that!

[R3V0 909]

1 minute ago, wasmic said:

@R3V0:

You don't need to play around with Sub-Buildings Enabler in order to have catenary rail and third-rail railways on the same station. I've edited an elevated station from the workshop to have a metro track underneath. All that's necessary to make this work is to draw the metro station track underneath the station, and then connect a pedestrian connection to it. Simple as that!

Intereseting. Because I made a train station which will work also as a GM station, but I couldn't add any stops, since even with GM station tracks, it was known as train stations. 

[jonasbang69 2]

2 hours ago, R3V0 said:

Intereseting. Because I made a train station which will work also as a GM station, but I couldn't add any stops, since even with GM station tracks, it was known as train stations. 

Interestingly enough, it works for underground MOM station tracks, but not for ground or elevated ones (as far as I can tell)

[andreharv 1,197]

Hi guys a little update...

@wasmic I haven't forgotten about your concerns from a few posts back...It is a valid concern.

I have been out of my mind the last few days and have not been as chatty as...I should?  Anyway, I have been feverishly working on a backward compatibility algorithm for existing stations.  the goal, for now, is to allow the users to choose a depth (preferably -12m) and length (144m) of existing stations in the game.  The premise is that if the station works now, it should work with my mod.  The way it will work (tentatively) is that all ped paths leading into the station will stay the same but the stations tracks as well as the pedestrian paths that lead to them will be lowered.  A 'spiral staircase' of ped paths will be dynamically laid to fill in the gap and prevent any 'slope too steep' errors. 

So far, we can support stations with:

• Ped entrances at ground level and down  to -4m below ground
• Stations with multiple entrances
• Stations with multiple tracks (almost always...see below for exceptions)
• Stations with diagonal tracks

Still working on:

• Stations with curved tracks Done (90 degree only)
• Finding stations that do not require these modifications

May/Will not work on (exceptions):

• Modifying length of station tracks that are connected to other station tracks (they can still be lowered)
• Modifying unique buildings (at least for first release)
• Stations that ordinarily don't work (If it didn't work without this mod, it won't work with it)

Other considerations...Don't know much about UI but I would like to allow users to modify the length of tracks and depth that they are drawn (as mentioned above).  I would imagine that:

• Right now: Depth and lengths are hardcoded.
• Not too hard: Add dropdowns in mod options.
• Harder: Add UI box with dropdowns for length and depth whenever stations are clicked.
• Hardest/Not sure it's even a thing: dropdown for length and pageup/pagedn for depth.

Also, officially, I am sorry for not having this thing released last week as I kinda promised.  With all the wonderful feedback from the alpha, I realized how much more there was to do (secretly saying this is everyone else's fault but mine ).  But please, remain patient and continue with the feedback so we can ensure this is done properly(ish) the first time.

More when I get home from work...

[skallben 21]

Don't apologize, your work is fantastic. Start with sorting out what has to be done and what you can do. Leave the really hard parts for future updates, is my advice. It may sound self-evident but it's easy to lose track of priorities in a big project. Especially if you manage it alone.

[Igorp133 28]

Hi guys!

I'm rather regular player. I wanted this mod so badly that decided to give this alpha a try. I've launched it with my favourite city with about 40 mods enabled. Beforehand I deleted all vanilla metro networks, stations and unsubcribed from all custom metro stations. Mod have worked smoothly, without any errors except ground wierdness when connecting vanilla tunnel and mod tracks. In order not to confuse future players, imho it would be better to disable vanilla tunnel.  Transport Line rendering fix works fine and transport lines are shown correctly. 

All in all, great mod, a game changer!

[bsquiklehausen 190]

I couldn't wait for the American themes, so here's the MTA's R142 trains all ready for the release.

[andreharv 1,197]

Well...here goes something...Placed stations will currently try to push down to -12m.  Just update your mod from dropbox again.  

Please Note: There was a point along the way where my test city crashed.  Not sure if that was a fluke or some index got changed or sth.  To be safe, make sure your favorite cities are backed up...you may also consider backing up your copy of the mod before trying this one in case you have something important in the mix (in which case you would have to delete the tracks, dl the new version and then re-lay them).  Hopefully this is not the case but I am really not sure.

Linkie:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xtm9esukogctnec/AAC-FdXH9QF7Vlr3ivzhRWuqa?dl=0

Edit:  What I mean is that the mod works now(ish) but it may not be compatible with tracks from the previous version.  Please let me know if this is the case and if so, what error are you getting?  

[wasmic 111]

I'll make sure to try the update out when I get home! If it works as well as you say it does, I wouldn't even want to toggle the option off.

Maybe you can add an option to toggle the effect on certain assets? For example, BadPeanuts Modern Central Station has built-in underground metro tracks, but they're already at -18 or so, and therefore wouldn't need to be lowered.

[Turjan 1,048]

I tried the newest version with the city that I saved with your very first alpha in place, and I did not see any issues. All metros redeployed from the depot, but that's a non-issue. By the way, I used a patchwork of old and new tunnels, even within the same lines, without problems.

The only problem at the moment (which will be gone when the mod is done) is that the overhanging new trains block opposite trains in old stations if the track is attached at some rather mild angle. Ridiculous 90 degree angles on the other hand provide no issue at all. But, as I said, that will be gone with stations getting longer tracks.

One minor consideration: I used a very old city from before metro lines could cross on different levels, and I wonder what lengthening of station tracks would do to a situation like this:

Spoiler

All those tracks and stations are on the same level. I know I would probably redo this, but I can imagine some people still have weird setups like this.

One question: does your mod force ground level bridges? I just ask as I had some difficulties with building ground level roads.

Edit: There's this of course when connecting old tunnels to new tunnels:

Spoiler

 

[Delta2k5 311]

@bsquiklehausen Ha, I was going to convert one of those too! Hope you don't mind if I'll do so at some point (As we've got different styles that shall be fine I think)

PS: really love your AC64 model!

 

@andreharv

Gonna check the changes of that mod now

BTW. I saw that trains were deploying from the depot on the version before, but they did not return (If you got lines that are day- or nighttime only). Instead they drove to the next station and disappeared. It's only some minor thing, but as you are still working on the whole project it's something to be mentioned   Update: They don't drive to the station, they simply disappear  

Alright, here we go:

• No problems while loading my test city, trains didn't even disappear in my case
• Axu's/Feindbild's "Urban Metro Station" does not work. it uses a diagonal and maybe but curved (unsure) station track ( https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=663070643 )
• "Grand Central with Train And Metro" does not work properly as it's untouched by the mod for known reasons (unique building)
• Visually working* are: "NY styled urban Subway" (Feindbild), subway stations by fishbus (Inner City Metro stations), "Metro Station Small Entrance" (Sonik), "New York Subway Station" (Mitai)
• International Airport seems* to work properly, Incheon Terminal and Joak's International Airport do not. Work around: dragging the new metro tracks directly into the station by using some anarchy mod - it would pop out of the ground, but due to the building above nobody will notice  

* My city does not have any residents yet, so I cannot check if they can reach the stations tracks

[skallben 21]

Crazy thought: Is it possible to connect pedestrian tunnels to metrostations?

 

[andreharv 1,197]

@wasmicGlad you like it.  Checking if tracks are already below -12m is a must and will be the next thing I work on for this.  

@Turjan Wonderful news (I admit I was a bit worried).  AFAIK, none of the vanilla station modifications will be retroactive.  In other words, this will only effect stations you place from now on.  So your first pic won't be a crammed nightmare until you decide to replace those stations.  This being said, it would be nice to be able to make a UI because then you could change the values between station placements to micromanage how well your stations will fit in tight spaces like this.  As far as your second pic, I also sank old tunnels but that is also not a retroactive change.  In other words, if you draw some more of the vanilla tunnel off your old tunnel, it will sink to -12m (the new default for vanilla tunnel depth).  Then you shouldn't have any trouble connecting to it.  As far as the bridge question, I am not sure if I understand you.  Could you send me a pic of what you mean?

@Delta2k5: Good call.  I will look at that.

@skallben: Not that I am aware of...metro stations are above ground...if you are talking about bypassing the station to get to the station track below, you could test by trying to run a ped path straight to a train platform and bypass the station and if it works, then your idea works...though I doubt it will.  

[Turjan 1,048]

4 hours ago, andreharv said:

As far as the bridge question, I am not sure if I understand you.  Could you send me a pic of what you mean.

Don't worry about it. II made some more tests, and the issue is not related to the MOM.

[Delta2k5 311]

Also those tracks look good using GCVos's Railway Trench

[bsquiklehausen 190]

Another day, another train! The pride of the MTA fleet - the R160!

[ancellim 8]

@bsquiklehausen So beautiful these trains can be downloaded yet? Waited for NTT trains for a long time

[bsquiklehausen 190]

@ancellim - I have a couple things to fix up (LODs, mostly), so I am planning on releasing them once the MOM is released properly and officially.

[skallben 21]

Not sure if someone mentioned already. Connections to stations on uneven ground can be a bit finicky. Tunnel keeps popping up over ground at the connection point. Can ofc terraform and replace station but another solution would be ideal.

 

[Tim The Terrible 586]

My findings playing with the playing with the latest version and no use of mods:

1. No lines visible above ground
2. No metros spawning from the depot, not even when using IPT
3. Vanilla metro (the vehicle) is gone from my game (noticed first in Advanced Vehicel Options window, later checked and was nowhere to be found driving around)

No issues with laying down tracks in any way whatsoever (which is nice )

Seems that it's only 'functioning' when you have other mods enabled. (e.g. Line Render Fix and IPT)

EDIT: when trying to lay down tracks after a restart, I got a Array Index is out of range (but I did notice a M100 spawning in the background...)

 

[TheBigCon4800 42]

I have a game breaking bug to report. On occasions when the game selects a metro station as a depot for the line, it throws out "array index out of range". That pops up infinanly after. Is there a way the mod could delist metro stops as depots?

[Turjan 1,048]

22 minutes ago, TheBigCon4800 said:

I have a game breaking bug to report. On occasions when the game selects a metro station as a depot for the line, it throws out "array index out of range". That pops up infinanly after. Is there a way the mod could delist metro stops as depots?

Probably a good idea. You don't use the Improved Public Transport mod I guess? In case you use it, it's important to pause the game before you complete a line so you can choose the correct depot (and the vehicle you want) before the first vehicle spawns. I guess most people here use that mod.

[tkstbddl 0]

21 hours ago, TheBigCon4800 said:

I have a game breaking bug to report. On occasions when the game selects a metro station as a depot for the line, it throws out "array index out of range". That pops up infinanly after. Is there a way the mod could delist metro stops as depots?

In my case, solved that problem using by the [clear traffic] in Traffic Manager: President Edition 

After that, there was no problem!!

[droidhacker 2]

Hey I hate to just pop into the thread of amazing progress but is there any way these tracks could be released as regular train tracks?  On the workshop there are already underground "metro" train stations so I already have the functionality this mod is adding.  However, these tracks look good, like freaking freaking amazing really freaking good.  I am always trying to build a futuristic city and there are so many great trains on the workshop just to have them go over dingy rusty looking tracks the game comes with.  Its especially jarring because I have made a good futuristic road theme.  Being able to use these tracks as regular rail for freight and a main train hub would be freaking incredible as they look so much cleaner and nicer, I mean you did a really really good job.  Is there any way these could be released as a regular train track mod?  I am pretty good at modding, is there any way I could transfer them myself? I cannot get over how MUCH better they look than the regular tracks, sorry for all the gushing but I literally almost pooped myself after seeing the screenshots, its just what I have been looking for for so long!

[wasmic 111]

@droidhacker:

These tracks have a third rail, not a catenary. It wouldn't make sense for normal trains to run on these tracks. However, @boformer is working on a mod called "network skins" that should allow for additional skins for rail tracks, when it's finished that is.

[Turjan 1,048]

5 hours ago, wasmic said:

These tracks have a third rail, not a catenary. It wouldn't make sense for normal trains to run on these tracks.

Much of the train system in South East England and a few lines elsewhere use third rail electrification. It's rare, but it exists.

For example, before the new high-speed track from the Channel Tunnel exit to London was done in 2007, the Eurostar trains from Paris to London had to have shoes for the third rail on the English side of the connection.

[wasmic 111]

@Turjan

I'm aware, I have been there. I'm not sure how the code works, but I'd imagine it'd be easier to just make some models for those trains and use them on the metro network, rather than creating an entirely new railway track type that uses third rail, and also needs to be able to interact with the standard rail tracks.

Third-rail powered main lines are very rare IRL (I'm not sure it even exists outside of southeast England?), so I didn't feel it was necessary to mention them.

[droidhacker 2]

I don't really care about details like that, they just look very nice, plus I DID want them to be futuristic.  I do not know of a specific time table for the network skins update and you are already done (visually at least, I downloaded the mod) that's why I was asking.  They don't really have to junction super well or anything with regular track because I would only use your new type in my cities.  I know there could be some issues connecting with stations but unless its absolutely terrible it cannot outweigh the visual advantages of these tracks. I am not talking about a texture replacement for the default tracks, couldn't you just set the type from metro to rail and then boom they could be used as rail tracks?  Utilizing the underground "metro" train stations and having metro themed "trains" gives you the same functionality and more compatibility without making whole new tracks and redoing the entire metro system (I looked into your mod, its very impressive) and having you and other modders make 20+ new stations that already exist for rail track.  Utilizing the new stations you can connect from underground to elevated. 

However, I have read, but I do not have this problem, that underground "train" metros cannot generate trains (work as a depot).  So maybe you should continue your great work and just unify it into the train system.  Set up the depo for use on the train network and switch your freaking cool tracks to rail.  Since you have already created a station track type put those assets up for modders to make train "metro" stations with your track instead of the default or the mod addon ones.  Then people can use stations and tracks with the metro track if they like the look/ realism AND then it could be connected into the rail network because technically it IS rail track.  You would be able to have the cross interconnectivity you guys had talked about earlier in the thread.  Less work, more interconnectivity.

As for third rail commonality I am pretty sure the entire New York City rail system is either diesel for freight (plain tracks) or third rail electrified.  I have never ridden on it personally but I am pretty sure there are no overhead cables on the system.  I personally, have never even seen track with overhead cables, that's why I HATE the CS tracks

[donoteat 478]

1 hour ago, droidhacker said:

As for third rail commonality I am pretty sure the entire New York City rail system is either diesel for freight (plain tracks) or third rail electrified.  I have never ridden on it personally but I am pretty sure there are no overhead cables on the system.  I personally, have never even seen track with overhead cables, that's why I HATE the CS tracks