Additional Public Transit

[Delta2k5 311]

5 hours ago, wasmic said:

Why even have the high-speed tracks be only accessible by high-speed trains? While those kinds of tracks are rarely used by anything other than high-speed trains, the possibility should be kept open - which would also AFAIK make it much easier to code.

Simple answer: congestion.

More complex answer: High speed rail tracks don't irl allow slow trains to enter. Due to the construction of those tracks they should be more expensive to be build too (this would increase the level of realism for users that don't use sandbox mode). So as I like realism I'd like to keep those separated. Full stop. I cannot imagine freight trains or slow commuter trains running through some high speed rail network as those would slow down everything. I don't think that there is so much more code needed to avoid those two train types to be blocked - that code could probably be borrowed from T++ / TM:PE. If you don't want that kind of network it's fine, I'd like it.

About your light rail problem: actually it would be possible to create nice elevated stations I think. Just some nice building model would be needed featuring some overhanging model to fully hide the railing and the sidewalk of the stock elevated track + some roof above the track. That would look nice imo.

[hitzu 139]

4 hours ago, wasmic said:

A proper light rail system would only need Elevated Tram Station Track and Underground Tram Station Track in order to be practical, in addition to the stuff that's already available in other mods.

As well as single track Eleveated and Underground station tracks.

 

As for monorail. Yesterday I've seen very nice un unexpectedly fast example of the monorail system build in South Korea. This can be used as a prototype for both monorail and maglev networks.

 

https://youtu.be/0ShnN3xyRhc

[andreharv 1,197]

Alpha Update

Ok I kinda broke my promise.  by about an hour and a half.  Nonetheless here it is.  Still not in final form but I think it is usable *fingers secretly crossed behind back*. So in this update, some minor fix stuff, most of which I have forgotten but importantly, got the subway setter UI in.  In this moment, it may break curved track.  If it does, I will fix that shortly.  Also, you will need MULTI-TRACK STATION ENABLER.  Otherwise, you will be impeded by some seemingly hardcoded hurdles with setting metro lines.  

To get the latest version, click on the link below and when it takes you to the post, click the link in there.  I did it like this so that I don't have to keep track of 5000 links each time I post an update.  The original link should always take you to the right place.  Enjoy and leave feedback!

 

[Bad Peanut 826]

@andreharv if you're willing to touch tram network codes maybe a future network type could be elevated busses like the new trials in china??

 

It would be a bit complex but probably less so than metro as you'd just be using the same logic of trams to create a new type of transport:

I've already played around with the general idea using the medium road tram roads in game but I'd rather have 3 lanes of traffic passing under the elevated bus instead of the 2. It would also have to be a new net type and restricted to that one.

[hitzu 139]

@Bad Peanut how do you want to force this bus to ignore the traffic under it?

[Bad Peanut 826]

22 minutes ago, hitzu said:

@Bad Peanut how do you want to force this bus to ignore the traffic under it?

have it use a tram track net lane instead of a road netlane -  but the tram track lane be so skinny that you hardly notice it, you'd then have the vehicle modelled off centre so it over hangs the skinny lane and doesn't interfere with traffic in the road netlanes

 

 

| pathwaylane | up roadlane | up roadlane | Up Roadlane | Up Tram track lane | Down tram track lane | Down Road lane | Down Road lane | Down Road Lane | pathwaylane

 

I'll post a pic of my test with the tram medium road when i get home

[R3V0 909]

@Bad Peanut @andreharv

Get me the network, I'll deal with the tram, this thing is so awesome ! I'm aware about the project since the beginning but I couldn't find a way to import it to CS. If you can find or show me a way, I'd gladly to the modelling. 

Already made a double decker tram, so I'm always open new projects. 

[Delta2k5 311]

Got some debug message on games startup:

Quote

Multiple IUserMod implemented for the same mod. Only one IUserMod is accepted per mod. ...\Cities_Skylines\Addons\Mods\MetroOverhaul [MetroOverhaul.dll, ObjUnity3D.dll]

maybe some unused leftover in your code (not used instance of that type)? - Ingame it seems to work fine, I'll go into further testing. I really like the way you did that panel!

 

• Depot spawning is working better than before
• Trains still don't drive back to the depot when service is canceled / day and night cycle changes

[wasmic 111]

12 hours ago, Delta2k5 said:

Simple answer: congestion.

More complex answer: High speed rail tracks don't irl allow slow trains to enter. Due to the construction of those tracks they should be more expensive to be build too (this would increase the level of realism for users that don't use sandbox mode). So as I like realism I'd like to keep those separated. Full stop. I cannot imagine freight trains or slow commuter trains running through some high speed rail network as those would slow down everything. I don't think that there is so much more code needed to avoid those two train types to be blocked - that code could probably be borrowed from T++ / TM:PE. If you don't want that kind of network it's fine, I'd like it.

About your light rail problem: actually it would be possible to create nice elevated stations I think. Just some nice building model would be needed featuring some overhanging model to fully hide the railing and the sidewalk of the stock elevated track + some roof above the track. That would look nice imo.

Ah, gotcha. Somehow I thought you were suggesting that HSR should be an entirely separate network type. Yes, your idea seems reasonable.

Regarding light rail, it could work but would probably be even more clunky than the current system. In addition, station tracks have platforms, which the normal tracks do not. People would thus have to stand on the small sidewalk that is for some reason built into the tram tracks, rather than standing on the actual platform of the model. Also, underground stations still aren't possible without station track.

[andreharv 1,197]

1 hour ago, Delta2k5 said:

Got some debug message on games startup:

maybe some unused leftover in your code (not used instance of that type)? - Ingame it seems to work fine, I'll go into further testing. I really like the way you did that panel!

 

• Depot spawning is working better than before
• Trains still don't drive back to the depot when service is canceled / day and night cycle changes

@Delta2k5Thank you!

Guys please update your alphas from a few posts up and let me know if you find any serious issues.  I am guessing that if everything is 'usable' this may be the last alpha I do before release...finally...

I have spent a couple hours researching the elevated busses in the past.  Just a matter of when and how.

[donoteat 478]

16 hours ago, Delta2k5 said:

High speed rail tracks don't irl allow slow trains to enter. Due to the construction of those tracks they should be more expensive to be build too (this would increase the level of realism for users that don't use sandbox mode). So as I like realism I'd like to keep those separated. Full stop. I cannot imagine freight trains or slow commuter trains running through some high speed rail network as those would slow down everything.

Here's a freight train on HS1 in England...

[Delta2k5 311]

@donoteat Okay, you are right. So irl freight trains might run on hsr tracks, but only if no other train is scheduled to run there at the same time  - so in case of C:S where everything spawns randomly on outside connections that would lead to the same chaos as it does right now. So still I'd keep that separated  

[Bad Peanut 826]

8 hours ago, hitzu said:

@Bad Peanut how do you want to force this bus to ignore the traffic under it?

 

8 hours ago, Bad Peanut said:

have it use a tram track net lane instead of a road netlane -  but the tram track lane be so skinny that you hardly notice it, you'd then have the vehicle modelled off centre so it over hangs the skinny lane and doesn't interfere with traffic in the road netlanes

 

 

| pathwaylane | up roadlane | up roadlane | Up Roadlane | Up Tram track lane | Down tram track lane | Down Road lane | Down Road lane | Down Road Lane | pathwaylane

 

I'll post a pic of my test with the tram medium road when i get home

[blackdragonbird 13]

You guys are amazing.

[maksim2014 17]

Spoiler

 

China's "future bus" yesterday tried "Global Times" mad plug-like model cars do not believe that behind the bundled high-interest financial products

China's bus R & D of the future bus "Bayi No. 1" yesterday for the first time in the road trial, but today was severely criticized the mainland media. The official media "Global Times" in the micro-blog post, questioned the "Pakistan Railway" is not practical, only to stay in the concept, more bursts of "bar" behind the project is a financial company in operation, To attract deposits from investors and appeal to the public not to believe it.

"Global Times" in the micro-Bo issued a document pointed out that the project had speculation in 2010, when the project was because the "concept" by the United States, "Time" magazine named the year's 50 best invention of the world, but "Pakistan Iron "has been the practicality of a variety of professionals have been questioned, especially in China is extremely complex road conditions. And in the past six years, the "Ba Tie" project has been just stuck in the concept, there is no real breakthrough; and criticized the "Pakistan Rail" yesterday exhibited "model car" level, is the playground Level, "... there is no new technology in the car, is a model car ride out," and laughed at "bus" is just a "large gantry crane", and its chief architect Song Youzhou only primary school education.

In fact, as early as 1969, the American concept of a concept similar to the "Pakistan Rail" concept, but also because there is a great problem of practicality, so even in the United States such a dare to invent and try new things in the country, did not People really want to achieve this idea.

The article also said that behind the project is actually a financial network to do P2P financial management company in operation, and the company has been absorbing investors deposits, and promised to return as high as 12 per cent interest rate, but the risk of high capital chain, and "The problem of P2P financial management company," China wins Kay, "has been bundled in the sale of" Pakistan Rail "project investment and financial products.

Therefore, the article called on the public "not to be blindly affected by some mainstream media, too lightly believe in the" Pakistan Rail "report, we must be cautious," and said, "I ask you not to give publicity, not only because of this Project is not Kaopu, but also because the project bundled with the financial management company is too hard to trust, loopholes a Pa is a lot!

 

[DeltaGamer 13]

On 10/6/2016 at 11:30 AM, wasmic said:

Sooo... the same as metro, but more overpowered?

Yeah, I'd like to see monorail maglev too. But not as "just another metro".

Why even have the high-speed tracks be only accessible by high-speed trains? While those kinds of tracks are rarely used by anything other than high-speed trains, the possibility should be kept open - which would also AFAIK make it much easier to code.

 

Yeah, pretty much XD that's why it's just an idea. I think it would be best to just change the textures/models of the metro rails and vehicles, and make it faster, but keeping the same underlying infrastructure for something like it. But, yeah, it's not really needed

[Thomas67 12]

When do you think the metro will be on the steam.. its look amazing

[Stanil 15]

@andreharv

I tested the MOM and I‘m getting error messages like this:

Quote

Simulation error: Array index is out of range.
  at PassengerTrainAI.ArrivingToDestination (UInt16 vehicleID, .Vehicle& vehicleData) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at TrainAI.UpdatePathTargetPositions (UInt16 vehicleID, .Vehicle& vehicleData, Vector3 refPos1, Vector3 refPos2, UInt16 leaderID, .Vehicle& leaderData, System.Int32& index, Int32 max1, Int32 max2, Single minSqrDistanceA, Single minSqrDistanceB) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at TrainAI.SimulationStep (UInt16 vehicleID, .Vehicle& vehicleData, .Frame& frameData, UInt16 leaderID, .Vehicle& leaderData, Int32 lodPhysics) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PassengerTrainAI.SimulationStep (UInt16 vehicleID, .Vehicle& vehicleData, .Frame& frameData, UInt16 leaderID, .Vehicle& leaderData, Int32 lodPhysics) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at VehicleAI.SimulationStep (UInt16 vehicleID, .Vehicle& vehicleData, UInt16 leaderID, .Vehicle& leaderData, Int32 lodPhysics) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at TrafficManager.Custom.AI.CustomTrainAI.TrafficManagerSimulationStep (UInt16 vehicleId, .Vehicle& vehicleData, Vector3 physicsLodRefPos) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at VehicleManager.SimulationStepImpl (Int32 subStep) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at SimulationManagerBase`2[Manager,Properties].SimulationStep (Int32 subStep) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at VehicleManager.ISimulationManager.SimulationStep (Int32 subStep) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at SimulationManager.SimulationStep () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at SimulationManager.SimulationThread () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0   [Core]
 
(Filename: /Users/builduser/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 65)

 

[hitzu 139]

8 hours ago, DeltaGamer said:

Yeah, pretty much XD that's why it's just an idea. I think it would be best to just change the textures/models of the metro rails and vehicles, and make it faster, but keeping the same underlying infrastructure for something like it. But, yeah, it's not really needed

Monorail is actually much slower than average metro. The fastest monorail can reach speed of 60 km/h (pretty much like a fast LRT) while a metro is used under the speed of 80 km/h. If you're going into maglev, then it's wiser to use it in speeds greater than 300 km/h (wheel limit). But the map size is quite small for these speeds.

Let's have a train with a max speed 90m/s (324km/h) with an acceleration twice greater than comfortable for passangers 1m/s^2. We need a distance of (90^2)/1=8.1 km to reach the full speed plus the same distance to stop. So it should be 16.2 km between two stations or more than 8 map squares. If we want a maglev with max speed 140m/s (roughly 500km/h) and we want it can reach the top speed within the map boudaries (18 km from border to border) then its acceleration should be (140^2)/(18000/2)=2.45m/s^2. This is 5 times greater than comfortable IRL but it's acceptable for the gamepurposes, but still pretty much useless since there is no need to travel from border to border and it wouldn't reach its full potential. I see only one purpose - feeding a space elevator with tourists.

 

@Bad Peanutthe prototype is great! Why would you decide to make it 3 lanes wide instead of two? Do buses and trucks fit under it?

[DeltaGamer 13]

9 hours ago, hitzu said:

Monorail is actually much slower than average metro. The fastest monorail can reach speed of 60 km/h (pretty much like a fast LRT) while a metro is used under the speed of 80 km/h. If you're going into maglev, then it's wiser to use it in speeds greater than 300 km/h (wheel limit). But the map size is quite small for these speeds.

Let's have a train with a max speed 90m/s (324km/h) with an acceleration twice greater than comfortable for passangers 1m/s^2. We need a distance of (90^2)/1=8.1 km to reach the full speed plus the same distance to stop. So it should be 16.2 km between two stations or more than 8 map squares. If we want a maglev with max speed 140m/s (roughly 500km/h) and we want it can reach the top speed within the map boudaries (18 km from border to border) then its acceleration should be (140^2)/(18000/2)=2.45m/s^2. This is 5 times greater than comfortable IRL but it's acceptable for the gamepurposes, but still pretty much useless since there is no need to travel from border to border and it wouldn't reach its full potential. I see only one purpose - feeding a space elevator with tourists.

 

6

Yeah, that's why I don't think it works in-game, though maybe IRL. But the idea is also too complicated for the game anyway. But changing the rail track skins would be enough to make something aesthetically similar, so it's ok.

[skallben 21]

11 hours ago, hitzu said:

Monorail is actually much slower than average metro. The fastest monorail can reach speed of 60 km/h (pretty much like a fast LRT) while a metro is used under the speed of 80 km/h. If you're going into maglev, then it's wiser to use it in speeds greater than 300 km/h (wheel limit). But the map size is quite small for these speeds.

Let's have a train with a max speed 90m/s (324km/h) with an acceleration twice greater than comfortable for passangers 1m/s^2. We need a distance of (90^2)/1=8.1 km to reach the full speed plus the same distance to stop. So it should be 16.2 km between two stations or more than 8 map squares. If we want a maglev with max speed 140m/s (roughly 500km/h) and we want it can reach the top speed within the map boudaries (18 km from border to border) then its acceleration should be (140^2)/(18000/2)=2.45m/s^2. This is 5 times greater than comfortable IRL but it's acceptable for the gamepurposes, but still pretty much useless since there is no need to travel from border to border and it wouldn't reach its full potential. I see only one purpose - feeding a space elevator with tourists.

 

@Bad Peanutthe prototype is great! Why would you decide to make it 3 lanes wide instead of two? Do buses and trucks fit under it?

Good numbercrunching!
But, how does vehicle speeds in CSKL compare to IRL?
It seems to me that a train from edge to edge of the map goes way faster than IRL but maybe it's an illusion.

[Delta2k5 311]

2 hours ago, skallben said:

Good numbercrunching!
But, how does vehicle speeds in CSKL compare to IRL?
It seems to me that a train from edge to edge of the map goes way faster than IRL but maybe it's an illusion.

I think that's the truth and not an illusion. I think the overall timescale in that game is a mess.

For example the time bar at the bottom (and also the time of the whole non-visible Simulation) - weeks go down within minutes, so if you got a really large city some cims might die before they reach their destination. In any case they need hours simulationwise to travel to work, even if it is a two minute commute on your screen. The day / night cycle is also ridiculous as time fies also by - so people can't even reach their work during day most times in the vanilla game.

Then there is traffic. I think that is also faster onscreen as people always run too. So the gap between those time systems isn't that large (lol)

Still I really don't know why the hell they decided to do it that way - probably they wanted to keep the time one building needs to be finished more realistic compared to the simulations time (still one building finishes in around one week which isn't realistic at all).

If I would have designed that simulation the scale would be like:

48 minutes irl = 1 day ingame at 1x speed, like in GTA V (2 seconds = 1 minute ingame)

12 minutes irl = 1 day ingame at 4x speed

6 minutes irl = 1 day ingame at 8x speed

So, the measurement would be in hours for the simulation instead of weeks (like profit/loss, deaths/births and so on). Vehicles then could drive at some more realistic speed without messing up the whole thing (dead bodies rotting for "days" while the hearse stands in front of one trafficlight  for "hours"). Building construction would be unrealistic ofc. as nobody really wants to wait for months irl to see some building being finished  - well, some work around could be some kind of time jumping to the point when all buildings are finished, but as it's unknown what could happen to a city in between that would be not a good solution imo.

[dragonshardz 0]

A thought - would it be at all possible to transition surface metro that's in the median of a 4-lane avenue into underground metro while leaving the road on the surface? I know if can probably be done by splitting the 4-lane into 2 oneways and a little anarchy magic, but a cleaner method would be pretty useful to have.

A similar kind of adapter for going to elevated metro would also be neat.

Either way, really looking forward to this mod and hoping it integrates well into existing metro/tram networks.

[sokayha 30]

6 hours ago, dragonshardz said:

A thought - would it be at all possible to transition surface metro that's in the median of a 4-lane avenue into underground metro while leaving the road on the surface? I know if can probably be done by splitting the 4-lane into 2 oneways and a little anarchy magic, but a cleaner method would be pretty useful to have.

A similar kind of adapter for going to elevated metro would also be neat.

Either way, really looking forward to this mod and hoping it integrates well into existing metro/tram networks.

Something like this?

The question before of this kind of design is the intersection can't be done by so near multi-road.

but now we can do it by move-it mod. wow...

 

also...

[R3V0 909]

Hello guys, Any news about oneway tracks, or should drop them instead ? 

 

[schokoladeneis 1 193]

@R3V0 I think andreharv is aware that you need oneway tracks for your station and I think he will make them, but asking repeatedly won't make it faster. On the contrary andreharve and other people in this thread might get annoyed from your requests.

 

[R3V0 909]

38 minutes ago, schokoladeneis 1 said:

@R3V0 I think andreharv is aware that you need oneway tracks for your station and I think he will make them, but asking repeatedly won't make it faster. On the contrary andreharve and other people in this thread might get annoyed from your requests.

 

1. Since he mentioned "that the latest version will be version before the release, if everything goes well with the alpha" my question was to know whether one way tracks will be included in release or come as an update. If it's the former, it's cool. If it's not, I'll look for preparing two way stations for the release, thus the point of my question. 

2. If anyone here gets annoyed from my requests (I don't know, it seems I've made multiple requests in thise thread before according to you), I imagine they can write themselves, since, I think, most of the people have 2 hands (5 fingers attached to each one) which are pretty useful to type via keyboard. If so, I would drop the thread immediately and watch it from the distance, since I'm excited to see this mod comes alive in the CS and it'd be an honor to take some part in it. 

Thank you for that important remark. 

[andreharv 1,197]

One way tracks will be in a subsequent release, not sure if it will be second or third.

[killerbake 8]

Amazing work by everyone. Couldn't be more grateful at all. This truly changes the game in an intense way and when the general public see's it, they will feel the same. After testing I can say that I'm not having much of any issues with or without mods installed and with A LOT of assets. @andreharv You are the master.

[wasmic 111]

How about the elevated one-track one-way station tracks for catenary-powered heavy rail? I've seen a few awesome elevated island platform concepts, such as this one by Joak, which sadly can't be released yet because the tracks are lacking. Will they be released after the MOM has had its first phase completed?