IDS's (mostly) Minnesota BATs

[JP Schriefer 5,591]

Both buildings looking great!! I really liked those parked cars.

[IDS2 3,369]

I recently had a nostalgia trip and went on a Runescape binge, but I had to put a stop to that when winter break ended. When I wasn't doing that, I did a ton of model tweaking, but most of that time was spent correcting stuff that looked good when I went to bed and looked bad when I woke up. 

An old one from my campus that I saved from being abandoned:

I actually like this one, but it's kind of a weird size. It fits on a 2x3 lot, but not snugly enough to be w2w and scaling it to make it w2w doesn't work very well. There's probably enough room around the edges of the lot to fit in a few tree props, though. Night scene is in progress, and it's an easy one. 

And another that I hadn't touched in a few years, but even after replacing the textures, something about it just looks off to me. It's really got me stuck in a rut - I can't figure out what's wrong with it and I've lost the nerve to keep messing with it. I think it may be the roof texture on the main building, but it's hard for me to tell. I'd like to finish this one up, but I can't let it go the way it is. Remind me to never do another building with such a large roof - the overall quality of the model relies way too much on having a good roof texture. 

Once that's resolved, I'm excited to do the landscaping. Reference images for this one are severely lacking, especially when it comes to the roof, but I actually have good shots of the exterior plaza.

As for Rapson, I just haven't given lotting it a try yet, but I have something nice and simple in mind. The fire station nightlights aren't quite there yet. 

I wish I could bring myself to make more regular updates - I've never exactly been disciplined when it comes to BATting. I'll be graduating in the fall, which gives me just enough time to do a couple more buildings on campus. For some reason, I only ever feel like modeling the ugly ones, so I don't expect model this any time soon. 

[SimCoug 5,973]

Good to see you check every so often.  

but, but, but... Folwell Hall looks so magnificent!

Ok, no Folwell, but what about Eddy Hall?

[IDS2 3,369]

Eddy Hall is the coolest! I've never been able to see the inside, unfortunately, but I'm hopeful that they'll reopen it to classes at some point. I think it's just sitting empty at the moment, which is really a shame. They're doing a lot of other renovations elsewhere on campus right now, so I don't expect it to get much attention any time soon. 

I tried to keep it simple - how does something like this look? The trees will be replaced by any tree mod, of course. The main thing I'm worried about is that the ones on the edge are a bit close to the building and any larger tree models will cut into the walls, which would look pretty funny. Then again, maybe the whole lot looks funny. What do y'all think?

 

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

Looks pretty underscaled to be honest

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Wow look great, and I agree with Toothless Stitch.

[IDS2 3,369]

Yeah, I think you guys are right. I've scaled it up about 120%, and I think it looks a lot more reasonable now.

I just thought I'd check in with you all because I know I haven't posted in a while, but I wanted to let you know that I'm still getting some modeling done! I don't have much in the way of previews to post right now, but I can give you a quick rundown of what's been going on. I've installed max and BAT on another computer (the one I used to export my very first BAT), so hopefully the ID conflict I've been having will be taken care of (though at the price of very long export times). 

I reused some of the 2x3 building from my campus that I posted earlier to model another one on campus that's nearly identical. The only real differences are that it's a couple stories shorter and has a different ground floor, but I think I'll release them as a pair anyway. They're completely finished and ready to be exported (I'll post a night shot before I do, but I don't have one ready right now, so I'll post one next time). 

I've also started modeling Canadian Pacific Plaza and the IDS Center, both located in Minneapolis. Modeling is almost done on both; the former needs some roof detailing and entrances modeled, while the latter just needs some more detailing on the roof antennas and supporting structures. I don't really have previews for them right now, mostly because I haven't even begun texturing yet, but I'll get there soon. 

Also, I revisited one from St. Paul that I posted ages ago. I think the roof looks a bit cheesy right now, mostly because I completely made it up (I'm considering just modeling it the way it is in real life, but I was too lazy to figure it out before), and the glass reflections seem a bit off to me, but otherwise I'm happy with the granite cladding and base roof texture. 

I was also thinking of redoing one of my old uploads - Hiawatha Bank Tower - to more accurately reflect the real-world building on which it's based. I feel now like I released Hiawatha in a bit of a rush, and the quality really suffered as a result. The changes I'd make are replacing the monochromatic cladding with a warmer sandstone, remodeling the windows to give them a bit more life, and adding the giant red "1st" that's on the roof of the real building. Do you think these few changes warrant another upload, or should I focus on the other projects? I really like the building and I'd like to do it justice, but I have a lot of other stuff I need to finish.

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

Lol, "some" modelling ...

[Thin White Duke 4,072]

I would personally like for you to focus on your newer projects before enhancing the Hiawatha building. Otherwise it'd pretty much be like GTA V. It's a nice bit of DLC yes, but what we really want is a new game altogether.

[weixc812 509]

Personally I'm quite interested in IDS Center and hoping to see some progress of it

I guess it's the tallest building in Minnesota?

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

I love it!!!

[Jasoncw 11,934]

I'd like to see an update to Hiawatha Tower.   I agree with your assessment of the previous version and I don't think making a new version would be too much work compared to the benefit. 

[Fantozzi 4,067]

I agree with Jasoncw. During the last five years overall visual quality of bats improved much. For me it's always sad to delete older content and free space for newer one, not because the model is bad, but simply because newer bats look better because of a better render qualitiy. Often I think, retired batters should have left their models, so they could be re-rendered. It isn't fair that older bats are forgotten simply because render tecniques getting better and better. And to update such bat classics as the Hiawatha Bank Tower seems a work of merit to me.

[TakemeThere 5,834]

Even if it might not be true to the real world version, I think the roof junk looks great as is the pink texture of the granite cladding.

[IDS2 3,369]

Hi everyone!

I haven't posted here in forever, so I thought I'd give a quick update. I had to put BATting on hold recently because the computer I had 3dsMax on died. I didn't lose any files because I keep plenty of backups, but the computer I'm using right now has terrible specs and runs max horribly. Fortunately, I've saved up enough money to build a new PC, so I'll probably be getting started on that sometime this week. I know this community runs more slowly than it used to, but I still enjoy playing the game whenever I can, and making models is a big part of that for me.

The bottom line is that, even though I make fairly slow progress and upload fairly infrequently, I have plenty more uploads planned for the near future  Before my computer died, I solved the export ID problem I was having, but I kept running into other export errors (showing up incorrectly in game, etc) so I don't have anything ready for upload right now. However, I have a few buildings on deck that are all ready to be exported and lotted, so stay tuned!

[JP Schriefer 5,591]

Take your time! I'm glad you still interested in doing BATs in these difficult times

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

I feel you. Crashing computers are very popular recently among batters...

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Oh my! Thanks for this update. I was in a bad mood before I started browsing what I missed on ST (was gone for a week), and when I saw a recent post in your thread, I thought something along the lines of "meh, another stupid thread bump. IDS seems to be gone as well, it's so sad..." but what do I read? Not only are you alive and kicking, but we can also expect some new action in this thread! This definitely lifted my spirits somewhat. As unimportant as it may seem, sometimes it's the small things like some unexpected bits of good news that add up towards making you feel better.

I hope you'll get those other export problems sorted out - have fun and good luck!

[SimCoug 5,973]

Hey, I'm in WI now, so we're practically neighbors
 

[jmsepe 2,039]

Well, computer does that sometimes. It only means time for an upgrade! Looking forward for your next works. 

[IDS2 3,369]

Hey all!

After taking a longer break than I would have liked, I come to you today with some progress!

There's actually only one good reason (besides school and work) I've held off on finishing everything for so long, and that's that I'm terrible at lotting  I really dread getting to the lotting stage of any release because I completely hit a wall as far as where to go with it. The models themselves are easy enough to crank out. So, I've come to you today to hopefully get some advice as to what I should do with a few buildings I'd like to finish up. If I can remove the stress of figuring out how to present each building, I'll be a lot better off. 

The first two are the same ones I've shown before - I've added the 16x16 meter tiles to the lot size I'd like to use for reference. 

The problem with this first one is that, in its current configuration where it is centered on the lot, there isn't really enough room for anything major on any one side. I also considered scaling the building to better fit the lot, but it looks really bad when I change the dimensions at all from the way they are now. One idea I came up with was shifting the building over so that three of the sides of the lot would be the same width and one would be extra wide, which may be large enough to fit a small fountain or something. I've never worked with particles before, but I have no objections to learning if you think this sort of thing wouldn't look out of place next to such a stark tower. 

The second one is more of the same:

For this one, since the lobby is enclosed in windows, I think the whole thing feels a bit more like a traditional office building. The multiple entrances make the whole thing feel more open and I can imagine there being more possibilities for this one. 

Of course, if I do decide to go with a plaza or whatever, there is the question of whether to model all the details or simply make the LODs nice and snug and then just use props - I have no real issue with there being dependencies, especially since nearly everyone has the major packs already. 

The last one is something new. I'm having trouble with this narrow 8 meter strip at the foreground - it's too wide for an alley, but too narrow for an entrance to a parking garage. Perhaps just some benches and potted shrubs? I'm very pleased with the other 3 sides of the lot, but this side seems far too large to just leave unfinished like this. 

Another shot, but of the front of the building with the lot tiles for scale:

I really like how the building turned out otherwise, and I only have a little bit of easy roof junk left to model. The whole facade is this sort of brushed aluminum that may be a bit tricky to recreate, but I think it'll look really cool if I get it right. 

As far as Rapson Library goes, I've been hit with export error after export error. I'm thinking I might wipe clean one of my old laptops and use that as a dedicated rendering machine, because nothing is working on my current laptop. When I finally get a working export, I'll need some advice on its lot as well, because everything I've come up with so far is pretty ugly IMO.

Thoughts? 

[Jasoncw 11,934]

Glad to see you back.  

I don't think those really need serious lotting. In real life most buildings don't have much stuff around them, and I think lotting can sometimes be a little overdone in SC4. (and this opinion is not related to the fact that I am bad at lotting too  )

For the first two I think the first consideration is how you want the buildings to be positioned in relation to the surrounding buildings. So for example if it grows next to wall to wall buildings, how much of a setback you want. Or which side you want to consider to be the front. Or if you don't want there to be a back, etc. Once you have an idea of the building's position relative to its hypothetical surrounding buildings, the types of function that each part of the lot might have will be more clear to you. 

For the other building you can put a row of BATed trees in planters which would fill up the space and would look really nice reflected in the glass. 

But I also think a more accurate version would be good too, a 4x4 wall to wall building like the real one. 

I agree that the metal will look really nice. The trick to the metal, and also the glass, will be to BAT the lot and surrounding roads, and set those objects to be invisible to the camera. This building looks pretty good for that too, because the base where all the big reflective surfaces are are close enough to the lot/roads to have accurate reflections, while the tower has smaller more broken up reflective surfaces which will make it easier to make look good with a generic ground texture. 

 

[Fantozzi 4,067]

On 23.10.2016 at 4:05 AM, IDS2 said:

I'm having trouble with this narrow 8 meter strip at the foreground - it's too wide for an alley, but too narrow for an entrance to a parking garage.

Much can be done already with using different ground/overlay textures - like quotation marks, underlining etc. can be used to structure written text optically, ground textures can be like an underlining of the buldings structure.

 

Also some slim trees like aspen or cypress can do an effect like 'room dividers' if you have long repeating glass facades on the base. 

But I confess - I like the idear to add an underground parking entrance on the eastern part - maybe a slim parallel one way road and entrance and exit as separated parts?

[EDIT]

BTW. - will you continue the work on Hiawatha Bank Tower? I love the chiaroscuro of this bat, how geometry and light giving it something special.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

I also think you may be overthinking the lotting part a bit. However, this statement alone won't be very helpful, therefore I'll try to sketch my basic thoughts when lotting.

The aspect that I regard as fundamental is tying BAT and lot together visually. A lot ends up looking bad if it appears to be a flat rectangle with a 3D model placed on it like an afterthought or a foreing object. How to achieve this, however? There are a few factors that contribute to this goal:

• The predominant base texture must match the building as closely as possible. For example, when you look at a decidedly sleek and modern building that's dominated by cold, darker colours such as anthracite with a blueish tint, cream-coloured pavers laid in merrily swirling patterns won't do the trick in most cases. There will be a stark mismatch both in terms of colour palette and in terms of overall impression/mood. In an ideal scenario, the base texture will look like a an extension of the BAT.
• Any features of the building should be echoed by the lot. A parking garage entrance means there should be a driveway, an entrance door means the area in front shouldn't be cluttered with objects that would impede entrance. A backyard side that will probably remain unseen by passers-by is a good place for dumpsters, boxes and other stuff. A lower building annex that's a bit removed from the road might look good when surrounded by a bit of grass, and so forth. Even tiny details such as seams between different lot textures lining up with edges or seams of the BAT can help a lot.
• It's often nice when the seam line between BAT and lot gets interrupted by taller lot objects, rendering it less obvious. A few lampposts and trees can do wonders to conceal that line.

In practice, for the kind of buildings you present in the above screenshots, a neutral (but halfways matching) base texture, some planters, benches, trees and lampposts will pretty much get the job done, as Jasoncw said.

If you still feel that things just won't come together, feel free to PM me, and I'll see what I can do.

 

[JP Schriefer 5,591]

It's great to see you around! Very nice buildings

[MushyMushy 3,618]

Looks great!

I would actually say that 8 meters is enough space to stick a garage entrance (which would look great IMHO), depending on how accurately you want it to be scaled. I'm assuming it's an American building based off of the stuff you've BATed before so for an example vehicle I'll use a big one to make sure any normal-sized car fits: Ford F250. With the mirrors included they're around 106" wide which works out to about 2.7 meters. Since most cars made for SC4 have been overscaled to varying degrees let's say it's 3 meters wide. So side by side it would be 6 meters - leaving 2 meters to make up the clearance between the two and between each one and the wall. In my experience most parking garages are tighter than that with much more reasonably-sized cars so I don't think it would look odd at all.

[nos.17 5,177]

On 10/22/2016 at 10:05 PM, IDS2 said:

Thoughts? 

I'd love to give mine, but your image links are broken for me. Ima just assume everything looks fantastic for now, as I love your past uploads.

They're working now, and certainly looking nice!

  Edited October 31, 2016 by nos.17  

[SimCoug 5,973]

Hiya stranger from up the road.  Can't wait to see your new stuff on the STEX soon.  
also... Winter is coming... 

[IDS2 3,369]

Hey all!

I would like to thank everyone for input on the lot. I more or less know how I'm going to go about finishing these off, now. I've been playing a ton of vanilla SC4 lately, but I've finally got back around to finishing off one I started a couple years ago. This is the social sciences building from the University of Minnesota campus, and having just finished school, I feel like I should probably get around to releasing it  Its shorter twin (Heller Hall) is next in line. We're well into winter now (enjoying it yet, Simcoug?), so I have plenty of time to wrap things up. 

I was pretty hesitant about going with a modeled lot for this one because of the issue with shadows in the day scene and illumination of the corners of the lot in the night scene. However, I think it turned out pretty well, and I suppose I could always just use custom base textures if the building looks hideous in game. I modeled the trees using some crappy tutorial a while back, but I think they look decent enough in this context. 

Also, does the night scene look really grainy to anyone else? I obviously need to increase the sampling somewhere, but I can't tell what material is having the issue. I'd rather not increase sampling on everything because my render times are already getting pretty long. 

I attempted to come up with a convincing glass material for the IDS center, which was no easy feat, and I'm still not sure that I've succeeded. Tall buildings that have entirely glass facades are a nightmare for getting convincing reflections, but I think the ground plane I'm using is a step in the right direction. The glass at the ground level of the tower will be redone entirely because the whole section is filled with department store window displays, but hopefully everything between the base and the upper mechanical floor looks decent. I'm really dreading modeling the roof because it has dozens of antennas and other structures that are tricky to model, but I have some decent reference photos. Either way, I won't be working much on this one until I finish up some of the near-complete projects I have. I actually don't think I've shown a preview of this one at all yet, so please also let me know what else needs attention. 

Honestly, it's really hard to prevent it from looking like plastic. It's a work in progress, I guess. 

Finally, I should mention that I'm currently in the process of remodeling the entire Hiawatha bank tower to match its real life counterpart. Nothing to show so far as I've only replaced all the windows and spandrels, but I'll post a preview once I get the roof sign modeled and some new materials created. I really need to get my scene organized, because I didn't use layers when I modeled it a few years ago and the scene is in excess of half a million polygons. 

[JP Schriefer 5,591]

Wow!
Both buildings looks great IMO. Those sidewalks in the first one are truly beautiful.
I also think the night view is looking grainy. Have you checked if the Sampling Mode is the Classic Mode? My previews look grainy when I forgot to change from Unified to Classic.