Morgan R

Better than that, MadHatter! I myself also happen to be a longtime faire-goer (my "home faires" are Maryland and Virginia), I think all the props we need have already been made to recreate the platonic ideal of a Ren Faire (at least as found in the USA). All that is needed is to creatively reuse and lot them. Namely, off the top of my head we already have: Various tents, booths, vendors etc. from the various modular public market, bazaar, and street vendor sets Small building props for half-timbered "old town" Europe cities "Old-timey" props for secondary things like wooden barrels, crates, carts, wagons, etc. Small novelty antique fountains, marble statues, and topiary Gazebos and pavilions from the various park and garden sets The Maxis Mayflower ship prop or something similar for a pirate/privateer ship Lots of colorful banners and signs Lots of big shade trees Portable toilets, all in a row Modular palisade fences (as designed for Old West or old Canadian usage) to go around the outside + some of the modular castle bits for the focal points and front gate Cars parked on half-dirt-half-grass Modern camping tents/RVs parked behind And no need to worry about night-lighting! The trickiest part may be finding good outdoor stages and bench-seating that doesn't look too modernist/concrete based. ...I would discuss more here, though I don't want to derail the original thread too much. Any interest in starting a new thread to discuss ideas?

@Sloppyjoemess I am swamped with real-life right now, but I want to help with this project; if not through actual research and lotting assistance, then at least through encouragement. You hit the nail on the head: the Garden Apartment, as a form, is almost entirely missing from the game, despite making up a good chunk of inner suburbs in many lower density cities in the USA and being a crucial part of the built environment landscape. (Some of my closest friends live in ones in and around Washington, D.C.). For those creating historically-based tilesets, these would be essential for filing the role of mid-density apartment complexes at all wealth levels for the Era 2 ("New York 1940") tileset.

Hence the term by which this generation of cars are remembered: the "land yacht" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_yacht_(automobile)) Though if you are referring to the wooden styling, that was its own long-lived trend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodie_(car_body_style) But what can I say? The past is a foreign land...

It depends on when (and sometimes where) the house was built. I wouldn't say there is such a thing as a "typical American roof". Most houses in the 18th century = very simple; same for most of the 19th century. Farm houses = simple (but often would add on new sections with a new roof). Generally, at least where I am (the Mid-Atlantic), the average house is by-and-large more simple (and smaller) than those you show. But they will often have dormer windows, as well as porches and garages which have their own roofs. Complex roofs are more expensive (both to build and maintain), and so are a status symbol. They were very popular with the Queen Anne style of the late 19th century, and in many Arts & Crafts designs. But American Foursquares (the "typical house" ca. 1900-1930) usually had a pyramid hipped roof. Suburban tract housing of the 1940s-1970s (i.e. Cape cod houses, simpler ranch houses, and split-levels) generally had simpler gabled or hipped roofs. What you are seeing is mostly a development after the 1970s and 1980s; they have gotten much more complex for various reasons. But basically, if the building footprint is a simple rectangle, the roof will usually be simple; if it is not, then the roof will by necessity be more complex. I also suspect that because most American houses are not wall-to-wall (unlike in much of Europe), it allows for much more expressive roofs. Edit: Post-script: 1.) I suspect that it may seem like so many American houses look like this is because this is what real estate dealers and builders are trying to sell folks who are online in our Instagram age. As often is the case, the world of marketing and the world of reality are two different things. 2.) Our commercial buildings are the quite the opposite, and since the mid-20th century have generally had simple flat roofs (other than, say, restaurants and banks, which often try to cultivate an air of sophistication).

@redfox85 To my knowledge, most of if not all of those already exist on the main exchanges, tucked away in the various SPAM, SG, BSC, BLS, and CSX fields. A quick search in my folders turns up bananas, pineapples, chili peppers, coconuts, sugarcane, oranges, lemons, and agave. Of those that already exist, here is a cocoa farm over at the LEX. But since there are few lots that ONLY grow those crops, I think the issue is more editing buildings/farms to generate only those specific tropical crops you wish to grow (rather than all available fields). As I understand, one of the properties of farm lots is which fields they can generate, so editing this should allow one to narrow down the options.

Is that the current version of these long-awaited beauties?! Years ago, I had no luck after posting them in the "Can't Find It" thread, and so a few weeks ago I cropped this screencap to post on the The Ones that Never Made It to STEX thread, thinking they were some long-lost project. I have been trying to hunt those down for almost half-a-decade now. @mattb325 you have now made my week if not my month! As a player trying to replicate the Mid-Atlantic USA, where these sorts of houses make up the bulk of the historic heart of older cities, from Richmond to Alexandria to Philly to Boston, a thousand "thank you"s!!! Huzzah! This is one of the single most-useful BATs (for me) I have ever seen! I am not sure how useful wall color variants would be, compared to some alternative options for variety. Let me explain: An architectural historical perspective: In the case of the Mid-Atlantic USA, endless brick rowhouses like these could be entirely historically accurate; they would often be nearly identical for an entire city block. From Boston's Beacon Hill, to Philly's Center City, to Georgetown, DC, the urban cores of many cities in the first decades of the American nation were mostly made up of simple red brick townhouses and rowhouses like these (for the middling-class areas; for less wealthy areas might be wood, and wealthier houses would usually be detached). N.B: wooden Greek Revival counterparts in multiple colors have already been released by C.P (available at the LEX). But none of those are proper brick rowhouses, like these. Per MattB's description, these are Federal Style (ca. 1790-1820). If anything, only the trim colors / shutters / roof might vary, as well as the treatment of the doors/porches or fenestration, would be the primary variation. The wall color could have a subtle variations in brick color, but until the ability in the late 19th century to mass produce and transport large quantities of bricks, most cities would have roughly only one color brick (based on the local clay). Brick was rarely painted at the time (outside of the occasional all-white coat for cooling reasons in hot climates, and commercial buildings which were painted with signs and adverts). It wasn't until many decades later, with the introduction of mass-produced pigments and paints (beyond the plain white, red, and black which had been already cheaply available) that people would have attempted other colors. Most of those you see in vivid colors are late Victorian and early Edwardian rowhouses and townhouses (showing off that new high-tech colored paint). However, I think some of it also goes to artistic intent, which I do not know. If MattB is going for a proper Federal style rowhouse look, then they likely would look mostly the same just like this. But if he is trying to use this to serve as a generic W2W townhouse, then I would agree, some variation might be nice. But this would be more for the details, accents, and trim, not the walls. For example, one using the black shutters found in the earlier versions (screen-capped above). But as I have never released a BAT, and MattB is one of the most prolific BAT artists of all time, I am in no real position to advise him, and will be content to sit back and watch the master at work. : ) * * * Summation: To sum up, for whatever it is worth, 1.) I love this little building and 2.) think if anything, variations on the accents or details could be effective (such as a version with the original black shutters) but 3.) I am in no position to make such requests, and am grateful to finally have this work available. Anyways, those are my two three cents. Thank you again, MattB, for all your wonderful works! And for this one especially! I look forward to it!

@Barroco Hispano While I love it the way it is, for re-lotting purposes, would it be possible to request an additional version of the Lincoln statue but without the cobblestone ellipse?

While my true favorite for "stations I have used" is Union Station in Washington, D.C., that one has already been shared here. However, my hometown of Richmond, Virginia has two gorgeous ones (at the height of the Golden Age of Rail, we also had a small third downtown one, but being merely depot-sized it isn't that impressive to share. It does make for a great local railway museum, however!). First up, Main Street Station (built 1901), located only a few (rather steep) blocks from the state capitol. It served the C&O railroad (with direct service all the way to Chicago). It is one of the few stations in the USA to retain its original grand cast iron train shed (like those in Europe and South America). It has also been through quite a bit; it was built on a raised platform with elevated trestles carrying the railroad due to the constant flooding (the reason it was able to clear a path through the heart of the city is because it also built at the low-spot in a valley). The station was nearly demolished in the 1960s to make way for interstate highway I-95 to plow through town using that same valley, but it barely survived (a flying onramp passes a mere few feet from the iconic clocktower). Service to the station was abandoned in the mid-1970s when Amtrak built a new consolidated station (with then-plenty of parking) in the suburbs. The building was then converted into a mall in the 1980s, which lasted only a few years. It was then converted to state offices, which remained there until the side platforms with the through-tracks were brought back to use in the 2000s due to its central downtown location. The headhouse now serves as the station and a city visitor center; the shed and under-croft were recently rehabilitated back to use as an event space. Barely visible on either side are the elevated iron trestles curving away, and the Interstate highway casting its shadow on the tower (at left). (courtesy Wikimedia Commons) If that was our city's answer to NYC's Grand Central Terminal, then Broad Street Station was our answer to NYC's Penn Station. It also was more directly the answer to Washington's Union Station, as this one served primarily as the other terminus of the RF&P, the only line that ran between Richmond and DC. Further, as the two main rival railroads south to sunny Florida had their northern terminus in town, essentially all passengers headed between Boston, NYC, Philly, DC, and the sunny beaches of Florida had to pass through here for a layover (or catch a ride across town to Main Street Station). Designed by John Russel Pope (who also designed the Jefferson Memorial and the National Gallery of Art in DC), it opened in 1917. Likewise closed in 1975, it was preserved by virtue of being repurposed into the Science Museum of Virginia, a function which it holds to this day: (courtesy Wikimedia Commons) Inside is a massive rotunda (which now houses a Foucault pendulum) , but I can't see to find any photos good enough to post : / So if only by childhood nostalgia and love of their familiar architecture, these are two of my favorites to share : ) [Note: I also have an irrational fondness for Buenos Aires' Retiro and a more rational one for Edinburgh's Waverly, but those are whole other stories]

I second this request, and am willing to help provide whatever assistance I can!. From an architectural history perspective The BEST Products buildings were fascinating works of "de-architecture" (a term coined by the architect James Wines of SITE; for a retrospective interview with the architect, see here), which amounted to a very satirical and well-received variant of architectural Post-Modernism with a dash of Deconstructivism. They basically poked fun at the very idea of the generic "big box store", well before the eventual retail dominance of Walmart and Target (which, ironically, helped doom the company). Sadly, most had a bit too much character for subsequent tenants, and were either demolished or remodeled to something a bit more tame. The fact that they were acclaimed and well-documented, but almost none survive, is another reason I would like to see them bought back to life to live on in SC4, where they can continue to break up the monotony of retail sprawl. As an aside, BEST was headquartered in my hometown of Richmond, Virginia, so they are still a bit of a legend around here. The old HQ is a fine postmodernist building in its own right (though currently awaiting reuse). We are also home to probably the only design for BEST by SITE that maintains its architectural integrity---the "Forest Building", as shown on the site you linked to (now used as a church). In its glory years, customers would enter through the generic glass doors facade, only to find themselves surrounded by trees and looking at a massive post-apocalyptic crack in the ceiling (in actuality, still outside the main building). While I would agree that "Indeterminate Facade" is the most iconic work in the series, I'd be curious to see if this could be done using custom LOD's to allow tree props in the "middle": For those interested, here is the county tax real estate info on the Forest Building as it exists today, which includes a footprint sketch of the building dimensions: https://realestate.henrico.us/ords/CAM/f?p=510101:5:::NO::P5_PARCEL_ID,P5_SEARCH_TYPE:751-745-7878,0 (the three red "WDK" protrusions indicate the extent of the wooden decks built from the actual building to the faux-facade, which is not indicated on the sketch). Aside from the truly iconic "Indeterminate Facade" building posted in the original request and the "Forest Building" above (which has the advantage of being a surviving building for reference, but might instead merely look like someone just did a bad job lotting trees), I would also recommend both the "Inside/Out Building" and the "Tilt Building" (the later probably the simplest of them all to model) as ones that might visually translate well into the game with it's roof-heavy perspective (each of these may be seen in the link to the architects' portfolio by the original requester). Historical Footnote: The fascinating and somewhat-eccentric and couple who ran BEST, Sydney and Frances Lewis, used the small fortune they made from the company to amass a prominent collection of Art Nouveau and Arts & Crafts antiques, which they were known for actually using rather than as display pieces (a chair by Charles Renee Mackintosh is said to have been Sydney's favorite sitting chair). They also took to patronizing and befriending young up-and-coming artists of the '60s and '70s, bartering any appliances their company sold (such as refrigerators, washing machines, and televisions) in exchange for artwork... by the likes of Roy Lichtenstein, Chuck Close, Elizabeth Murray, etc. etc. Even Andy Warhol (among the many friends they made in the process) once traded a work for a new vacuum cleaner and a TV. It was this passion for art and design (and a keen business sense) that led to their commissioning the unique and idiosyncratic showrooms the company became (in)famous for. While the company eventually folded due to the changes in the retail business that occurred in the '80s and '90s, their legacy lives on. The couple ultimately donated most of their collection of well over 1,500 works of art along with several million dollars (in '80s $) to the people of Virginia via our state art museum, the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts. The museum's BEST Cafe, which houses a few surviving architectural relics from the company, is now named for it. (For a longer contemporary article covering them, see https://juddtully.net/interviews/sydney-and-frances-lewis-the-quest-for-the-best-in-art/)

On a different note, here is a question I am having about a natural growth method in SC4. Suppose I want build an archetypical city in the USA, and proceed to build up and out a sizeable urban core (in the fashion of the 19th and early 20th centuries). Suppose around the hypothetical "Year 1950", I then wanted to build large swaths of suburban sprawl to recreate the post-war building boom. The way I am reading the forum posts regarding stage limits (mainly this one here) , it appears that it may reach a point where I could zone for all the low-density residential sprawl I wanted, but even with all the demand in the simworld, it would never develop a single house because the stage limit percentages for growth stages 1/2/3 were already maxed out from growth of the original city core. Is this a correct interpretation of how stage limits affect the developers? Have I been misreading what I have been able to glean? Or are those levels so inordinately high I will never have to worry about them even in a large region? Most of the prior threads I found involved people complaining about having trouble getting skyscrapers, but I am wondering if it is possible to build a city like DC-Northern Virginia, with its endless suburban tract housing and apartments? Or might it require modding the growth developer files to produce this kind of city?

A secret CIA recovery vessel ... erm, I mean, an ordinary drillship?

Another idea I haven't seen mentioned yet: While the earliest electric power stations date to ca. 1880, there had for decades in industrialized cities of any decent size already been another public utility that provided residents with power distributed from a central plant, with its own side-effect of pollution: a municipal gasworks. While piped underground, in most respects it functioned just like the power plants in the game do, powering the streetlights and lamps in houses and businesses, and later stoves and heat sources. These works functioned into the mid-20th century, by which point the exploitation of natural gas and the ability to store and transport gas in a compressed or liquefied form meant the pollution-heavy gasification plants and enormous gasometers were mostly obsolete. As BATs to that effect have already been done, all that needs to be done is a bit of period-correct lotting, and stats such that a gasworks could power a small city. In the meantime, here are the closest I have found that already does this to some extent: Likewise, while its stats have it as acting as a commercial landmark following adaptive reuse, this BAT is just waiting to be re-lotted into a large gasworks: There are also a few other gasholders floating around in the various industrial prop packs, which could be used to round out the lots or serve as the main structures for much smaller works.

Wow! This image has single-handedly made me rethink using the "DarkNite" mod. @mitsos What lighting mods or techniques do you use (if any), to get those richly colored lights?

@Kloudkicker Here are (rather cartoonish) nuclear waste containers, if you want to lot your own nuclear waste facility:

@Sloppyjoemess Totally! I thought I had made a quick comment to that effect, but on re-reading it, it wasn't clear at all. My request was only for the original Connecticut Ave. building (the U-shaped portion), not the Desales Street Annex (the long rear extension). I agree that the original square-ish main hotel building is both more architecturally interesting and far, far more useful for the game by itself, especially in smaller cities and neighborhoods. So even though you don't need it, you totally have my full blessing and endorsement! I am of the school of thought that modifying something to improve general in-game usability by a large number of players and in different situations is to be preferred over absolute rigid fidelity. And especially because we have so little high wealth (C$$$ and R$$$) FA content, and FA content in general, multiple plops may be required for a single road just to get enough buildings--so flexibility is definitely better in this situation. Likewise, in my architectural quests I try to find and suggest buildings that look like they could work in a wide range of scenarios, and that aren't particularly duplicative of the existing content for the game. (I will have more FA ideas to suggest at a later date). Though If you do have time, because it is FA, I would kindly request a mirror image render of the model on the complementary angle (though as with your other work, it could also be in a different texture). Thanks and good luck!

The Mayflower Hotel, Washington, D.C. (1925) AN AMERICAN-STYLED FRACTIONAL ANGLE CORNER LOT Request: With the Presidential Inauguration in DC yesterday, I think it is timely to make a request for a DC institution that has played a part in quite a few: the Mayflower Hotel on Connecticut Ave, NW. We have plenty of European-styled diagonal buildings for the game, but relatively few (especially fractional-angle) in the architectural styles of the USA. But with its Baroque-inspired street grid, some of the best real-life examples of angled American architecture are to be found on the main avenues of Washington, D.C. Thus I submit the original Connecticut Avenue wing of the Mayflower for BAT consideration. It is a high-wealth-styled fractional-angled corner lot (specifically on a 60 degree street, making it around FA-1.73, but this would likely need to be rounded to FA-2 to be useful with the NAM FAR). As such, it would also be nice to have a mirror-image to work on the complementary angle. Note that the Desales Street Annex (built a few months later, to the rear of the angled U-shaped main wing) is less architecturally interesting, and the smaller building is more versatile without it. History & Architecture: A mere five-blocks-walk from the White House, and halfway to Dupont Circle, it is in the social heart of downtown DC. The Mayflower hosted the official inaugural balls from the 1920s to the 1980s; campaigns have been announced and conceded in its rooms, and as with any proper DC hotel, it has been scene to its share of scandals. J. Edgar Hoover had lunch there daily for 20 years; senators have lived there in residence (and even President Truman did while the White House was being renovated). Today, it It is the oldest continuously-operating hotel in DC, and only rivaled in storied history by the magnificent Willard Hotel (Nicknamed the "the residence of presidents", the Willard is the oldest, but it was shuttered for a decade in the late 20th century). While of historical interest, it also holds some peculiar architectural interest. Because it is U-shaped facing an angled street, one of the wings is noticeably shorter than the other: Just look at that high-wealth Fractional Angle goodness! While its nature as an FA building means it would be have to be ploppable-only, the Mayflower would solidly stand in for both CS$$$ or R$$$* buildings. (*Note: in the 1920s, there was a trend of "Hotel Apartments", which was basically a hotel that functioned as an apartment building, complete with all the roomservices, restaurant, etc. The two are all but indistinguishable in appearance from the exterior.) Given its nearly 100 years of prominence in DC, there are plenty of photos in the Library of Congress and elsewhere for reference (see here http://www.loc.gov/pictures/search/?q=Mayflower hotel). @Sloppyjoemess : I know you are just starting your public BAT career (and this is a somewhat complex building), but since you are on a campaign to make FA USA buildings for the game, would this be one you might be interested in working on at some point down the road?

Question: I am looking for an automata blocker that blocks the automatically-generated maxis road traffic, if such a thing exists. I know a partial one was made as part of Justforfun's Victorian automata overhaul, but I was wondering if there was one that blocked all the basic traffic in the game, but still allowed for custom additional vehicles to show up (hence using a blocker instead of just turning the automata off). Alternatively, what resources are there on making such a blocker?

I can confirm that that's where they are in both cases. Here is where the "fluff" messages are located: Here is the code for one of the messages (they appear to pretty much be the same for the "fluff" type ones): The "a7619f2" is the location of the specific LTEXT file that contains the desired string in the localization .dat Aside: The 'Stupid News Ticker' Mod (one of the major attempts at changing the news ticker) erased unwanted messages by merely changing the formatting by making them comments, and in the case of the fluff, appear to have deleted most of them. I have been wanting to a make historical-period-specific fluff text mod, but don't know much about Lua, etc., and so have a couple of questions now: 1.) Do the strings have to be localized (i.e reference the LTEXT in the localization file)? And if not, how would one format it right there in the lua file? 2.) Is there anything that would stop the creation of new triggers? (aside from the need to create an ID I'm not sure the nature of (see in the example above: "ea89ac36") 3.) While I don't know Lua, and if indeed one can add in new messages, it looks like the trigger could be changed as well (e.g. here, to add new messages that reflect the changing population of the city or some other factor, and customize it to suit the needs of smaller or larger places. Is this correct?

@Sloppyjoemess What sort of ideas would you like and what is the best way or place to make suggestions (since I don't want to derail the thread)? From my architectural studies, I have quite a few longstanding ideas for townhouses and rowhouses (including both orthogonal and real-life diagonals/fractional angles) from my hometown in Richmond, Virginia and next-city-over Washington, D.C. If desired, I can try to get you photos, measured footprints, etc.

@tariely GOG.com (f.k.a. Good Old Games). Like Steam, it is one of the main online retailers of computer games. GOG is generally known for older titles, but has the advantage of being DRM-free. To prevent getting off topic, I'll refer you to this Simtropolis thread comparing getting the game at GOG vs Steam. N.B.: their content (including SC3000 and SC4) regularly goes on sale, if you are looking for a fresh copy of the game.

It will take some work, but I plan on using some of those to help populate a renewed "Chicago 1890" (i.e. Era 1) tileset. Indeed, I have yet to find many other 19th/early 20th century American low-density / low-growth stage commercial buildings for the game. Thus at the beginning of a city, it will look like a wooden ramshackle boomtown, and then grow in with more permanent-looking structures (it will also add a corresponding rural flair to outlying ares of the region).

Here are my two cents for additions (I may think up more later): Easy BAT additions: C.P's Wagon Works Barn - wagon works C.P.'s Gloribee Chapel - specifically the faded or painted clapboard versions C.P.'s Helena, Montana High School C.P.'s Early 19th Century Tenements - the wooden ones, for the mining boomtowns of the Rockies M.U.L.E. (Mountain UtiLity Extension) - to power a western town The Churches & Chapels module from the South American houses Pack - because many a Spaghetti Western features an old Spanish mission somewhere Moderate BAT Additions: They may require a bit of re-lotting to look more period, but these buildings could work: BlaM The Golden Boot Pack - for sims' cowboy boot needs PEG MTP LTUSA Cross Roads - specifically, the Corner General Store and The Village Center lots SPAM Commercial Growable - CS$ - look very period if you don't think too much about the signs Automata Additions: VDK's Trains Vol 13: North American Vintage Passenger Cars - notably the Denver Rio Grande Western, (DRGW), Great Northern (GN), Northern Pacfic (NP1 and NP2), Southern Pacfic (SP DL / SP Lark), and Union Pacific (UP1, UP2) liveries there is also the "DSP 2-8-0" locomotive (a "consolidation"-type steam loco used throughout the Old West) over at SimCity China, but I don't have the link. Flora: Southwest Desert Flora Pack

It may go a bit beyond "natural growth philosophies", but for a few years now, I have been working on a guide to building out cities in-game in a historically-realistic fashion (based on my various studies in the field, and research I have been doing for my long-dreamed-of region). Not quite a step-by-step tutorial---as much of this thread has been---but an organized guide to developmental trends and phases to consider to make a city look like it grew up naturally over 200+ years (with perhaps visuals). Given its more encyclopedic ambition, It would likely be a bit long and overly detailed for this thread, however. Any suggestions on where, how, or what might be the best way to share such a project on Simtropolis? But pending the completion of the drafts, I can give a rough outline of what I am working on here, if it is sufficiently on-topic and folks are interested. (Sadly, I have not yet been able to build a new, more powerful machine to host my principles in-game, however, and have merely spent the last few years getting my plugins folder ready).

After a deeper dive, you are correct. Thanks! There was indeed a 1950s McDonald's made a mere three months after the BAT software was released in 2004, (available here), and it seems remarkably well-done for one of the era, so I withdraw that request! However, I maintain that there are relatively few BATs of 1930s-60s roadside architecture, in particular CS$$ and CS$$$ (and especially when compared to the plentiful options for low-density CS ca. 1980-present). I am indebted to anyone who wants to help broaden the options in that space.

I dissent. I have been trying for several years to build out total replacement tilesets for historical-style play. While there are plenty overall, there are very few BATs of fast food / roadside restaurant architecture pre-dating c. 1980, and less than a handful of buildings from the 1950s or before. Indeed, I have searched and searched and I can't find a BAT of the original 1950s McDonalds design (which was occasionally replicated at the turn of the 21st century). Here is the oldest surviving McDonalds, in Downey, California (outside Los Angeles), and which opened in 1953: (Credit: Wikimedia Commons) Here is a webpage with more images and commentary on historic McDonald's (page 1 of 2; see link to second page at bottom of first). However, the Big Boy may be worth prioritizing, since I don't think there is a single example of one yet for the game. For references, here is a webpage with more images and commentary on Big Boy (page 1 of 2; see link to second page at bottom of first). And if anyone is interested, here is the oldest Bob's Big Boy (built 1949) in Burbank, California: