nos.17 Lot Development

[twalsh102 1,601]

Sounds perfectly reasonable.  Thanks for the explanation.  I've finely finished going through all my lots looking for missing dependencies, and started looking at all my prop and texture packs.  FWIW, I'm finding that you are by no means the only one who apparently follows this practice.  I learn something new every day.

I guess my biggest concern was for something along the lines of the following scenario: some novice content creator (who happens to have one or more of those other prop packs already installed) decides to use one of your prop families for a new lot, tests it by plopping the lot in-game verifying it works, and publishes it listing only nos.17 essentials as a required dependency.  The novice content creator then takes all the grief for missing dependencies, and because he/she may not have the skills/knowledge to determine what is causing the problem, may not be able to provide a fix.

I like the idea of the readme file maybe directed specifically at other content creators: 'If you are going to use one of my prop families for your lot, please make sure you also list the following prop packs (as appropriate) as dependencies.'

Definitely take the time to learn DataNode.  It will not only be useful to you as a content creator, but also as a player.  The User Manual (which is accessible from inside the program) is not perfect, but is reasonably complete.  There are some things that are explained better than others.  It is sometimes difficult to determine what the program is trying to tell you, and often what you get verges on information overload (especially if you have an extensive Plugins folder.  But whatever its drawbacks, it is definitely, infinitely better than the alternative (which really doesn't exist).

[nos.17 5,120]

On 6/24/2016 at 1:38 AM, twalsh102 said:

Sounds perfectly reasonable.  Thanks for the explanation.  I've finely finished going through all my lots looking for missing dependencies, and started looking at all my prop and texture packs.  FWIW, I'm finding that you are by no means the only one who apparently follows this practice.  I learn something new every day.

 

I have been around here for close to 5 years now, and I am still learning new techniques and finding new content. Its really amazing.

On 6/24/2016 at 1:38 AM, twalsh102 said:

I like the idea of the readme file maybe directed specifically at other content creators: 'If you are going to use one of my prop families for your lot, please make sure you also list the following prop packs (as appropriate) as dependencies.'

 

Alright, it's a plan! I will be going through and editing all of my other uploads relatively soon so I can just do that at the same time.

[nos.17 5,120]

June 26. Christ. It is time to dust off this thread.

 

 

 

 

I have been working on a whole lot of SC4-related projects in the background, but for now, I bring thee four new B62 relots, all courtesy of @patfirefghtr.

These four new buildings mark the official public beginning of a new project as detailed in this post:

 

SaveRite Grocery

 

Red Robin

 

Safeway 60s Retro Grocery
(Different from the Safeway 70s Style)

 

High's Store

 

I've also updated the old Weebly site:
Visit here for more photos

[DavidDHetzel 1,816]

what are these? OMG Their amazing! (Didn't you do the safeway already?)

[nos.17 5,120]

@DavidDHetzel ... Well, yes and no. I have uploaded a Safeway awhile back (it was a "70s Style"), but this "60s Style" is a new one. I happen to like the new "60s Style" more...it must be something to do with that green roof.    

[RRetail 7,906]

Awesome! Look forward to seeing what else you've got up your sleeve. I hope a Dollar General is in the works. They are popping up everywhere it seems.

[DavidDHetzel 1,816]

@RRetail - There's one on SC4D

https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=534

 

[TakemeThere 5,833]

Awesome to see more great relots are in the works, can't wait for future releases.

[bobsleiig 0]

Hi,

In first, thank's for your creations.

But, I have a problem on a store. This is "b62 Remastered BJ's Wholesale 1.0.0".

 

 

Maybe the problem is "KOSC_SuperSHK_MEGATexturePack" ?

I do not understand where to paste the contents of PIMXGroups.txt. Where is groups.ini file ? In PIX-X folder ? If yes, whers is PIM-X folder ?

 

By advance, tank you. And please, excuse my bad english.

BobsleiiG.

[rsc204 21,808]

On 24/10/2016 at 2:49 AM, bobsleiig said:

I do not understand where to paste the contents of PIMXGroups.txt. Where is groups.ini file ? In PIX-X folder ? If yes, whers is PIM-X folder ?

Are you using PIM-X? Hint: that's a modding tool, nothing to do with plugins. So if not, you should not install these files. Even if you do, they should not be in the plugins folder.

I suspect the problem with the grass is a texture conflict. But that problem is not the fault of either @nos.17 or @kingofsimcity. Texture IDs are managed by the community to prevent such conflicts, so either someone didn't get a reserved range or there has been an error.

I'm guessing the original concrete texture is one of SHK's, included in the original SHK Parking Pack. In which case, the grass texture is the problem, but I have no idea where that could have come from. The easiest fix for the moment, find the SHK Parking Pack files, and place them into a special folder named "z____Override". This should ensure it loads after the grass texture.

However, the problem won't end there. Now the content which was intended to use the grass, will show the concrete. The ultimate solution is to track down the conflict and get the IDs adjusted as necessary. But if I'm right that the concrete is one of SHK's textures, then it's the grass texture and it's creator who should alter the ID in use. Because SHK's range/IDs were allocated officially.

Think about this problem as two textures having the same "telephone number". The game dials the number, but has to pick which of the identical telephone numbers to connect too. SC4 will use the file loading later, but the fix is allocating a new telephone number to one texture, so they are both unique.

[nos.17 5,120]

@bobsleiig ... The texture is actually found here in my essentials pack. If you don't have version 7 or newer, you'll need to download it (version 8 is on the STEX now so if you download that you will be fine). Earlier versions do not include the texture I use on this lot.

Try this first. If it doesn't fix the problem then I can look into the problem more and you could try what @rsc204 suggested.

[bobsleiig 0]

Ok.
 Thanks both of you. I use actually the "nos.17_essentials 8.13.16" version. It's probably a conflict problem. I think you are right.

I'll try to find the conflict source. I just tried move the SHK content ("SHK Parking Pack" folder) in "z____Override" and no changes.

I do not use PIM-X. Maybe I should use... It is true that it is "a bit" of a mess in my plugins.

 

Edit : I just saw that I had "nos.17_essentials 1.28.15" file in the plugins folder. I removed. But that's not the source of the problem.

[rsc204 21,808]

2 hours ago, bobsleiig said:

I'll try to find the conflict source. I just tried move the SHK content ("SHK Parking Pack" folder) in "z____Override" and no changes.

I do not use PIM-X. Maybe I should use... It is true that it is "a bit" of a mess in my plugins.

Edit : I just saw that I had "nos.17_essentials 1.28.15" file in the plugins folder. I removed. But that's not the source of the problem.

Try moving the Nos.17 essentials pack to that folder instead. Because I mistakenly thought the texture in question came from SHK's files, the information from before was incorrect. z____Override is really very late (in terms of load order), unless you've a lot of other folders prefixed with z___ and more underscores. So the chances the problem file will load later is very small if you place something there.

PIM-X won't necessarily help to track down the problem. For that, you want to use SC4 DataNode. Even then, it might take a lot of effort to find the problem texture. Because if you've a large plugins suite, that's a lot of files you'd have to sift through to find the specific texture in-question. It'd be great to know where the issue lies, once we know that, hopefully the community can find a solution to avoid this problem for others. However, without having the same plugins folder, that relies on you being able to find the source of the conflict. No pressure, certainly willing to help all we can, but I also understand if that's too much effort.

[RRetail 7,906]

On 9/5/2016 at 4:11 PM, DavidDHetzel said:

@RRetail - There's one on SC4D

https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=534

 

Yeah, I just find that one to be too big for my tastes. I like the size of MarcoMX's Family Dollar.

[nos.17 5,120]

My WIP for the Modular Complex Challenge:

20 lots in total, with both LHD & RHD compatibility in the works.

[SecretMbr_735754 2,157]

I finally opened up the nos.17 Prop Families Instances.xlsx spreadsheet and looked at the origin files as the models weren't appearing in lot editor.  I suppose I need to install all the origin files in order to use the prop families?

[nos.17 5,120]

4 hours ago, RandyE said:

I finally opened up the nos.17 Prop Families Instances.xlsx spreadsheet and looked at the origin files as the models weren't appearing in lot editor.  I suppose I need to install all the origin files in order to use the prop families?

 

 

That's correct. For copyright reasons, I can only include exemplars to models that others have created, not the models themselves. Without the origin file(s), nothing will appear.

[SecretMbr_735754 2,157]

1 hour ago, nos.17 said:

That's correct. For copyright reasons, I can only include exemplars to models that others have created, not the models themselves. Without the origin file(s), nothing will appear.

Thank-you, I'm going to expand from using the Maxis street props for the modular challenge, so I'll harmonize with the standard props and textures you've defined as they seem to be widely distributed as well as a considerable improvement.           

[kingofsimcity 5,739]

Nice work! Those are some snazzy streetside parking lots! Like your incorporation of HD textures and vehicle props. Maybe I should jump on that ship someday also...

[nos.17 5,120]

On 11/2/2016 at 0:23 AM, kingofsimcity said:

Nice work! Those are some snazzy streetside parking lots! Like your incorporation of HD textures and vehicle props. Maybe I should jump on that ship someday also...

 

Thanks man! Its kinda surprising how many HD prop pack are actually out there if you look. Especially with smaller props, IMO it makes a whole world of difference.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

It's really a pity we don't have a sidewalk override function. These lots are totally great and realistic by themselves, but the sidewalk between them and the street/road/avenue is annoying. Oh well, one of the limitations we need to live with... perhaps this would be a good opportunity to use the NWM?

[rsc204 21,808]

11 hours ago, T Wrecks said:

It's really a pity we don't have a sidewalk override function. These lots are totally great and realistic by themselves, but the sidewalk between them and the street/road/avenue is annoying. Oh well, one of the limitations we need to live with... perhaps this would be a good opportunity to use the NWM?

Couldn't agree more. The best you can do is use overhanging-props, but it's possible to make them compatible with the installed sidewalk. However you tend to get z-fighting issues and worse, they only work on flat land too.

That's why it's nice to have a few SAM sets that show full-sidewalks. But for something like an avenue, it can be forced to show full sidewalks if you zone most high density in that area. If you use make historical on low density buildings before changing the zoning, you can also keep low density buildings too if desired.

[nos.17 5,120]

On 11/8/2016 at 6:15 AM, T Wrecks said:

but the sidewalk between them and the street/road/avenue is annoying.

I agree with you; it is annoying but it is the best I can do. Xannepan has some great looking overhanging props for streetside parking that dont seem to have many z-flight problems (maybe I could do something with those?  ) but as rsc said it only works on flat ground and for fixed (4,6 tile) lengths. Furthermore, the parking stalls are not on the edge of the parking tile, exacerbating the problem more.

[nos.17 5,120]

 Stealth update:

The waters are churning. I've been busy lotting these past few months in the background. In addition to whatever project I feel like picking up in the meantime, I'm going back through all of my old B62 stuff and updating them with better textures, props, and the like.

Waaaaaaaaaaay back in June 2016 I outlined the rationale and goals of remaking all of my old content. All of those points still stand, but some I've added some new ones.
     * Redo all building exemplars to eliminate any of B62's original bugs (e.g. cohort issues), and to have a consistent menu grouping when using buildgplop or lotplop.
     * PIMX-ify all lots to have balanced job stats and growth stages
     * Fix old lots. With the release of KOSC's parking textures, SHK's original ones (while they were good at the time), serve little use anymore. Also, I've been exploring using different prop packs to eliminate shortcomings I've come across in various lots (e.g. I found FAR car props to use, and many HD replacements for rather average looking props I used before).

And new objectives:
     * BTE-enable everything. Adding the BSC OccupantGroups will allow my lots to count towards certain BSC rewards (e.g. have X commercial in a city).
     * Custom queries for all lots. I've long been enthralled with how cool some of them look. I want them.

 

I've been slowly building up a repository of lots that I'll soon start showing off here and in the Show Us What You're Working On thread. If you're curious, here's a checklist for yall (and me) to keep track of my progress:
     1. Relot and new building exemplars  ...  ~75% complete
     2. Proper modding (readme, screenshots, menu descriptions) ...  ~25% complete
     3. BTE Tracking ...  0% complete -  I just need to figure out which OGs apply to each lot. Adding them is a piece of cake.
     4. Custom queries  ...   0% complete - Medium difficulty. Once I figure out how to create the queries, it's little effort to add them to the lots.

 

I think all of my content is at about 92000 downloads now. I'd love if everything could be ready by 100000, but that remains to be seen. 8000 seems like a nice cushion to me, but I've been known to be wrong many times before.  

 

[Yarahi 1,816]

28 minutes ago, nos.17 said:

 * BTE-enable everything.

How complicated will you make this? personally don't use everything from BSC, and the original chain proves sometimes to be way to intricate. (Case in Point; Jardin Independecia)

[nos.17 5,120]

3 hours ago, Yarahi said:

How complicated will you make this? personally don't use everything from BSC, and the original chain proves sometimes to be way to intricate. (Case in Point; Jardin Independecia)

 

 

Not very. With the help of a few people at SC4D, we compiled a list of all the known OGs, and few of them would apply to my lots. Things like BTE: Comm Grocers, BTE: Comm Retailers, BTE: Comm Petroleum and BTE: Ind - Warehouses. Many of the OccupantGroups are user specific, so I have no intention of using those. I'm not a fan either of the BSC Reward Chain; it's just too complex when rewards need three other rewards, which are all dependent on unique requirements. I will add to that some of my own OGs, for possible future rewards.

Really, I'm not trying to add to any of it. I was aiming to just incorporate some of B62's buildings into the mix to help unlock items quicker (I do believe he was part of the group back in the day).

  Edited February 28, 2017 by nos.17  

[Fantozzi 4,067]

It's long time on my wishlist

to make a parking set with those beautiful textures.

The name of the parking set most probably would be 'Via Appia".

The original idear came from motokloss, from this mod:

Sadly  this is one big prop:

 

So you can't use it on most of the NWM streets. When I talked to @nos.17 last year, I had those big alleys in mind and I thought, wouldn't it be nice to realize those instead with two parallel running ORW3 or ORW4 and a space in between to place this lots for busses and cars and trees and small playgrounds and newspaper stand etc - also for the turistic city centers. As this is something that always impressed me about Rome and Paris, how large those ancient romans designed their streets, if you cross them, it's like crossing a football field:

Those avenues cover many things - they are storage places, parks, parkings, market places - they are not only designed for having traffic up and down but more as a general network topology, serving for many purposes not only cars. The SC4 avenue seems like a treadmill instead - made just for a single function while those big boulevards and avenues are multi-purpose, very long plazas.

 

So with the textures you created - still I hope I can make a set of lots to recreated this kind of prestigious alleys in combination with the NWM.

******

But shure, sometimes I think, instead of doing hundreds of sidewalk mods, it would had been easier quite from the start, if the network was something like MMPs - you can drag them on top of a ground texture, so you can first plopp any kind of ground piece first and then drag the (naked) network over it. So you hadn't to descide - do I take this or that sidewalk mod? You could use any flooring on different sections of the street - defining every quarter of your city different.

In my opinion this would be the perfect  state - if road and road base could  be painted separate.

 

EDIT

Sorry, I noticed now my statement above could lead to misunderstandings. If I wrote, I have something similar in mind, I don't want to tell, I plan a 'competitive product'. Maybe something additional. And if there is no point to do something additional, I won't do it at all and I'll be very glad to use your lots instead for my 'roman alleys idear'.  Just wanted to say: I didn't forget about that idear we had last.  Someway I have a bad consciouness that I still didn't do something with those textures you were so kind to create/offer.

 

[Evanjs 602]

On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 8:49 PM, bobsleiig said:

Hi,

In first, thank's for your creations.

But, I have a problem on a store. This is "b62 Remastered BJ's Wholesale 1.0.0".

 

 

Maybe the problem is "KOSC_SuperSHK_MEGATexturePack" ?

I do not understand where to paste the contents of PIMXGroups.txt. Where is groups.ini file ? In PIX-X folder ? If yes, whers is PIM-X folder ?

 

By advance, tank you. And please, excuse my bad english.

BobsleiiG.

Hey where did you get that building on the top right and bottom left?

[nos.17 5,120]

14 hours ago, Fantozzi said:

Those avenues cover many things - they are storage places, parks, parkings, market places - they are not only designed for having traffic up and down but more as a general network topology, serving for many purposes not only cars. The SC4 avenue seems like a treadmill instead - made just for a single function while those big boulevards and avenues are multi-purpose, very long plazas.

 

I'm with you there. While the SSP still isn't exactly what we are imagining, I think it's a step in the right direction. From the pictures you attached just one post above and those from our PMs, I still would love to pursue this effort. To get the functionality and appearances we want (seamless transitions between the roads, parking areas, parks, etc), I think the best route is a series to transit enabled lots. I was thinking of something along the lines of motokloss's lots, but texture-based instead of model-based. We would have 2x6, 2x8, 4x4, 4x8, etc lots that could be plopped with OWR or road drawn through them. There are two drawbacks with this, though. It would cut off a lot's road access, so they would have to be touching an adjacent side road to function. Also, as TE lots, they could not be plopped directly adjacent to each other - there needs to be at least one tile of space. I do think that these are not super important as the cities you would find these in usually have dense networks of streets: the long boulevards are broken up with a myriad of side streets which provide convenient space to end and start new TE lots, and ample side road for lots to have network access.

14 hours ago, Fantozzi said:

But shure, sometimes I think, instead of doing hundreds of sidewalk mods, it would had been easier quite from the start, if the network was something like MMPs - you can drag them on top of a ground texture, so you can first plopp any kind of ground piece first and then drag the (naked) network over it. So you hadn't to descide - do I take this or that sidewalk mod? You could use any flooring on different sections of the street - defining every quarter of your city different.

In my opinion this would be the perfect  state - if road and road base could  be painted separate.

 

I would imagine that this could be solved relatively simply. Use regular Maxis sidewalk for the base textures, and everything else would be overlays. That way any sidewalk mod the user has would automatically convert these lots too. If I recall correctly, that was one of the original prototypes for the SSP before I decided to go modular. I do remember running into some issues with overlays, but if I design them smartly, nothing should be too big of an issue. If worst comes to worst we could always supply the alphas and a GOFSH script to individually customize each set. I would like to avoid that at all costs and just stick to the easily (and automatically) overridable base textures.

14 hours ago, Fantozzi said:

Sorry, I noticed now my statement above could lead to misunderstandings. If I wrote, I have something similar in mind, I don't want to tell, I plan a 'competitive product'. Maybe something additional. And if there is no point to do something additional, I won't do it at all and I'll be very glad to use your lots instead for my 'roman alleys idear'.  Just wanted to say: I didn't forget about that idear we had last.  Someway I have a bad consciouness that I still didn't do something with those textures you were so kind to create/offer

 

I don't care. From my point of view, the more "competition" we have here, the better. The word "competition" carries the wrong connotations, I feel; "substitute" is better. The moment we have only one person who can do each thing is the moment this forum, and the game as a whole, dies. Again, I'd love to work with you (and anyone else who would like to join) on it. I do feel like the original ideas were not quite fully realized and I would love to have the opportunity to fix that.

 

1 hour ago, Evanjs said:

Hey where did you get that building on the top right and bottom left?

The top right one is one of moonlight's (you'll have to scroll down a bit to find it). Because of the rotation the picture was taken at, I cannot identify what the bottom left is. Maybe @bobsleiig, the creator of the photo, can help.

[DavidDHetzel 1,816]

It's Brico Depot by R6 - http://www.toutsimcities.com/downloads/search/Brico