Introducing Simtropolis Competitions and General Challenge Discussion

[Hamish 1,370]

Simtropolis Competitions

 

 

Today we are announcing a new feature for all members of the site, Simtropolis Competitions.

 

 

These competitions will be based on a variety of different conditions, creating beautiful images, making new custom content, or achieving specific gameplay requirements. Each week will feature a different rotation of competitions, starting this week with a gameplay competition and an ongoing photo competition.

 

The winner of each competition will be featured on the home page, and will also receive a custom award, amongst other competition specific rewards.

 

 

Each competition will have a slightly different set of rules, check each competitions specific rules before posting, however we have some global rules that apply to all competitions:

• All submissions must be your own creation. You may obviously use others custom content in images or content you create, however final products must be created by you.
• Be genuine, don’t cheat or solicit votes. If you do, all awards and promotion will be removed and you will be barred from entering any future competitions. Lets keep it fair for all involved.
• Entries must be made within the specified timeframe. A Countdown will be posted on the pages, and the entry pages will be locked once the time has been reached. Winners will be announced within the next week, or after a voting period has been conducted.

 

 

Depending on participation we might make this a seasonal event, with 15-20 weeks a year being seeing competitions run. We will give updates in the coming weeks to wether or not this condition stays.

 

Also, we would love to hear your feedback on current or future competitions. Its early in the process, and things are likely to change, so mention any additions or alterations and we will see what we can do. And if you have ideas for different competitions let us know, we are open to one off, or reoccurring competition ideas if you have them.

 

Use this thread to post feedback, or message one of our operators, thats either Hamish, Huston or Toothless Stitch.

 

 

We have a number of competitions lined up for all parts of the site, so dive in and have fun!

[Haljackey 17,405]

What are the rules regarding photoshop and image editing? Example, can a photoshopped image compete with a 'raw' screenshot?

 

Also, will there be any 'themed' competitions or just a free for all?

-Some I was thinking about are best settings (urban/suburban/rural), best natural (forests/rivers/beaches/mountains), best creative (themed cities/transport/focal points).

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

Themed competition are planned. In this case, some themes are given and people should vote for their personal opinion who accomplished the task the best. These themes will be in game based restrictions (like highest demand or best major rating) as well as user determined themes (best city with a cemetery, best city based upon a harbor etc.)

 

Community given ideas can be posted or be written personally to one of the moderators and may be used later as a theme based competition. 

[Hamish 1,370]

What are the rules regarding photoshop and image editing? Example, can a photoshopped image compete with a 'raw' screenshot?

 

As a blanket rule, photoshopped entries are accepted. However, some competitions or challenges might have rules that forbid photoshopping or not photoshopping images. For the picture competition photoshopped entries are fine.

 

 

Also, will there be any 'themed' competitions or just a free for all?

-Some I was thinking about are best settings (urban/suburban/rural), best natural (forests/rivers/beaches/mountains), best creative (themed cities/transport/focal points).

 

Yes there will be, new challenges launch every week. This week we are asking people to submit the In the coming weeks we will be introducing other challenges with the outcome of producing a themed image or gallery of images, amongst other various challenges.

[RipRap 4,400]

I have a suggestion...

I'm not so sure about the placement of the forum where Off-topic stuff (and ST tech related stuff) is usually created (Juxtaposing it between this and Forum Games is kind of a bit... out of place? ) Maybe move it up somewhere where everyone could see.

Another note that datS pointed out is the queue of users who wanted to participate in the game. right now, we have the system where users would literally perform a "musical chair" act, and it kind of would be not fair for users who have time constraints. Just to point that out so that people can suggest a better system, thanks!

-Tonraq

(Somewhat concerned fellow)

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

I don't think the systen doesn't work for now. 

 

First of all, this was a project. Since SBS has failed we wanted to be carefully concerning the size of this project. If we started this and had thousands of threads though there is no real interest it would have been totally wasted. 

 

Second, it's always "First come, first served". A round is over after at least 24 hours so if you also pay attention to this thread if it's not you who posted the picture you shouldn't have a problem with missing the final date. Also. you just can't post each round so others get the chance to the round.  

[TekindusT 3,809]

Second, it's always "First come, first served". A round is over after at least 24 hours so if you also pay attention to this thread if it's not you who posted the picture you shouldn't have a problem with missing the final date. Also. you just can't post each round so others get the chance to the round.  

 

This is how it works at SC4D, and I have never seen anybody complaining on it. Being aware of when the votation round ends so you can stick your pic is one of the things that makes people keep attentive to the game.

[wwetom1 831]

First come first serve is best because that way, nobody is waiting on the guy to post a picture, stalling the competition. 

 

Ya snooze, ya lose

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

 

Second, it's always "First come, first served". A round is over after at least 24 hours so if you also pay attention to this thread if it's not you who posted the picture you shouldn't have a problem with missing the final date. Also. you just can't post each round so others get the chance to the round.  

 

This is how it works at SC4D, and I have never seen anybody complaining on it. Being aware of when the votation round ends so you can stick your pic is one of the things that makes people keep attentive to the game.

 

 

That's the plan. Such projects are meant to increase activity in the community. With such a system being used this makes sure people keep their attention to the game and also participate in order to make the round go over. 

[Compdude787 916]

Second, it's always "First come, first served". A round is over after at least 24 hours so if you also pay attention to this thread if it's not you who posted the picture you shouldn't have a problem with missing the final date. Also. you just can't post each round so others get the chance to the round.

 

This is how it works at SC4D, and I have never seen anybody complaining on it. Being aware of when the votation round ends so you can stick your pic is one of the things that makes people keep attentive to the game.

SC4D is way less active than Simtropolis, and there's often days that go by without any activity in the picture competition thread on that site. Here, it seems that several rounds go by before I even get a chance to go on ST, and even when it comes to voting for a picture, I might not even get a chance to do that, either.

Aside from those minor issues, I'm really glad to see some SimCity competitions here on ST! It's a really great idea.

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

The larger a community gets, the harder it gets for everyone to keep their eyes on everything. Often, Forum Game round run two sides before you actually notice. Indeed, this might seem a little unfair, but sometimes, everyone will get the chance.

[Cyclone Boom 17,032]

Just an idea:
 
If the demand keeps up, maybe it could be worth running simultaneous contests (i.e. in more than one topic). This could allow more people to get a chance to enter their content, while still being first come, first served. There could be restrictions to ensure it remains fair for all participants.
 
Example:

• Best Picture Competition #1 [Theme A]
• Best Picture Competition #2 [Theme B]
• Best Picture Competition #3 [Theme C]

[Hamish 1,370]

Yeah, thats all planned, except with a couple additions.

We are planning weekly challenges, which started this week with the In the coming weeks these will expand to other interests. Not in the Best Picture setup however, we will supply more details next week when they launch.

[wwetom1 831]

I think we should keep just one running one, then maybe one themed one per month, plus the challenges like Hamish is talking about. 

 

For example, the "theme week" for this month is downtowns. It could either be set up like the current competition, or like a playoff.

 

Users have x amount of time to submit one picture, then users vote to see who advances.

 

• User A vs. User B
• User C vs. User D
• User E vs. User F
• User G vs. User H

 

Or have them all compete at once and just have one voting session.

Sorry if it sounds confusing, just throwing some ideas out there.

 

 

Also, I think that the person who casts the final vote should not be allowed to post the next picture (just like at SC4D) unless a certain amount of time has passed.

This will keep users from voting just to get the round over so they can post their picture.

[Huston 5,800]

I think we should keep just one running one, then maybe one themed one per month, plus the challenges like Hamish is talking about. 

 

For example, the "theme week" for this month is downtowns. It could either be set up like the current competition, or like a playoff.

 

Users have x amount of time to submit one picture, then users vote to see who advances.

 

• User A vs. User B
• User C vs. User D
• User E vs. User F
• User G vs. User H

 

Or have them all compete at once and just have one voting session.

Sorry if it sounds confusing, just throwing some ideas out there.

 

 

Also, I think that the person who casts the final vote should not be allowed to post the next picture (just like at SC4D) unless a certain amount of time has passed.

This will keep users from voting just to get the round over so they can post their picture.

 

Very sound idea, and I'd love to try implementing something like this beside the ongoing round by round Picture competition (keeps players voting, submitting and enjoying the faster progression rather than long waits).

 

EDIT: I decided to add the time restriction to users who cast the final vote so they can't just instantly post their pics. Been thinking about adding it too since SC4D's got it and keeps users from ending rounds spontaneously just so they can compete.

[Hamish 1,370]

I just thought I'd write about some new features as well as the future of this forum and how you can help shape it.

 

 

Today we launched the first of many weekly image challenges. Our intention is that every week a new set of challenges is rotated in and supplants last weeks challenges. So far we've introduce gameplay challenges and image challenges, and we've got a couple more in the works for the coming weeks, which we hope you'll be interested in.

While the picture competition is going great, some members have found it hard to enter images because the thread moves so fast. We hope that these weekly challenges will mean that you will be able to submit at least one image to a challenge every week. We plan to expand this to a couple of image challenges a week, but as this forum is still in its infancy w need to test the waters and get feedback on how they are running. 

 

You feedback on submission issues within the picture competition have helped us to form these image challenges, and we hope that in the coming weeks these can allow you to participate when you otherwise might not have. 

Your feedback has been invaluable to us, and we would love to hear more about how you think we can improve this forum. So please use this thread to post any ideas you might have on how to improve current challenges or even ideas for new challenges or challenge themes.

 

Thank you

[vortext 573]

To come back on this:

 

Also we need two categories for best picture: photoshopped and un-photoshopped. The pictures not photoshopped are getting trounced.

 

That'd be a slippery slope because where to do draw the distinction? For instance I sharpen all images pretty much by default. And my entry pic is actually a composite of 2 pics, with and without shadows in order to retouch some funky mmp shadows. Would that be considered shopped? And if so, a mosaic would technically also be photoshopped. Besides, if the SC4D competition is anything to go by it shows too much tinkering can be equally disadvantageous. Over saturation, inappropriate lens flares and the like are negatives in my book at least.

 

In short, one competition for all genres seems the best to me. In that regard I'm curious to see the first non-SC4 picture make an appearance. 

[Hamish 1,370]

I agree, we will probably do some non-photoshop challenges in the future, but we really want to keep the picture competition as simple to enter, which is why we have no size limit and no photoshop limitations either.

[RipRap 4,400]

Um, I have to raise an issue here.

Ine of the entries in the picture competition was a hall of famer at the sc4d competition. Is this even allowed? I don't think that's fair for people if the image was a hall of fame image before.

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

It depends on whether the poster was the original creator of the picture or not. In case you know we would like to ask you to send us the pic, the original link on SC4D and the poster of the pic in the competition. 

[Huston 5,800]

Um, I have to raise an issue here.

Ine of the entries in the picture competition was a hall of famer at the sc4d competition. Is this even allowed? I don't think that's fair for people if the image was a hall of fame image before.

 

I'm actually not all too sure about the rulings of having HoF pictures from SC4D enter here. I never really thought it'd be a problem, but this should probably be discussed.

[wwetom1 831]

It's frowned upon. It's like taking the easy way out, I don't think it should be an official rule though.

[blunder 1,080]

I don't know which picture you're all talking about but i don't see why there would be a problem.  Your work is your work.  It's not like winning a Peabody disqualifies you from being eligible for an Emmy.

[jmsepe 2,040]

I agree with Blunder also I would to raise the issue with voting with names. As much as possible, please write the display name of the user who entered the name not his personal name, nickname or any other name for that matter.

 

Why?

 

Because Simtropolis is not an exclusive site, many among here are new comers and many are those who are not familiar with each other. So to keep things simple, I really suggest that the voter should write down the display names of the image entrees.

[MilitantRadical 2,844]

I'm wondering if we should change the rules for the Best Picture competition so that we can better find the best of the best.
 
What if after winning 2 rounds, the winner waits until another pic wins 2 and then the pics that have won 2 each go head to head for a final verdict? (Does that make sense?) This way we can possible have a bit more consistency.

 

I think it actually might simplify things because right now it feels like we're going around in circles. It's nearly impossible to get a Best Picture winner because people seem to jump on to that next new thing quickly. Things have been very inconsistent since page 15-16 when Huston went up against LnX.

 

- LnX beat Huston by a landslide 10-0

- LnX then beat me by a lanslide 10-1

- Kisa Atsuko beat LnX 9-7

- Belfatocrates beat Kisa 10-7

- Belfastocrates beat Juliok92012 10-3

- Vortex beat Befastocrates 10-4

- Vortex beat Haljackey 10-6

- Mymyjp beat Vortex 10-8

- Blunder beat Mymyjp 10-7

- Kisa currently leads over Blunder 8-4 with a fairly similar, yet better, pic than the one he beat LnX with. We've practically come full circle.

 

When judging the pics in such a long chain I think it is important to keep into account all the pics that lost the previous rounds and to ask yourself if the one you're voting on is truly better than what came before. Although in some cases you don't have much of a choice.

 

In TekindusT's opinion each round is a brave new world, and you cannot apply to it the "mental rules" that worked out on the previous round. However i think this is making finding a winner very difficult. I don't know if this mentality is allowing the pics that are truly the "best" (I put that in quotes because it's subjective) pics rise to the top.

 

I don't suggest changing the rules until someone wins under the current conditions, but I suggest changing them after.

[RipRap 4,400]

Discussion should continue here.

 

I should quote from MR's post here:

"Personally I judge pics on three criteria:

1. Photography: How good is the framing? Is there a focal point? Is the picture clear? Do added effects enhance or distract?

2. Design: Technical skill and artistry.

3. Feels: How does it personally make me feel? (To me this is the least important one)"

 

There are differentiating views on how people judge the images. For example I care about how the images feel and what context are they proposing to the crowd. This is in fact the very basis of why we do the images themselves and what exactly are we doing to achieve something, hence that is why one of the most well known media are images that contain a lot of context into it, such as the blurry, out of focus and noise-ridden frame 313 of the Zapruder Film (the moment that it showed the head shot of the Kennedy Assassination). Context and design are can intertwine to form perfect harmony but it can also destroy each other in differentiating ways. Sometimes you would have to sacrifice one bit to 'balance' the two things out. Sure there are people that would rather vote for a "beautiful" aesthaete picture, but that doesn't mean other people vote that way, hence you see variable degrees of differences in piucture voting during the competition itself.

 

Hence that's why there's poetry and there is this requirement when entering architecture school to read books.

 

 

This is also a good read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi

[blunder 1,080]

In TekindusT's opinion each round is a brave new world, and you cannot apply to it the "mental rules" that worked out on the previous round.

 

I'd agree with Tek.

 

I would also point out that while we're 20-some pages deep in the competition, only 4 pics have risen from the competition thread to enter the hall of fame, and this seems to be appropriate.  After all, the prize here is a Hall of Fame, not a gold sticker for everyone.  And a hall of fame image should stand up to all kinds of competition.

 

I also think there is a lot of feeling out at this early stage, with people trying to figure out what the general voting members like on an individual basis, and a lot of watching and waiting to see how things develop.  After all, it's not exactly the same as our CJs where we dump a lot of pics from one theme or tile at a time.  And so i think not everyone is submitting their best work yet (as you, MR, correctly called me on in the competition thread) but feeling the waters; testing themed shots, like i did and failed hard, or seeing how well heavy photoshoping performs, or whatever. 

 

Also, we haven't seen much entry by the old pros and those on top of the last 2 years BTT yet.  I really think that the entries in the competition thus far do not represent the best the community has to offer.  Sure we've had some great stuff by TekindusT, Huston, Vortext, Kalistamac, etc., but there's been a fair bit of stuff that is ... well, average.  When any new system starts, there's a fair bit of noise and variance until all the variables are settled out.  The seemingly erratic voting patterns thus far fit that bill (and i'd agree with you; some of the voting trends boggle my mind).  But i don't think it's enough to say we have a problem yet that needs addressing; i think these are just standard growing pains.  Now if Paeng or Towerdude or Marsh etc. walks in, drops some of their gold-plated awesome, and it gets voted down in the 4th round to a clearly inferior image just to deny entry into the HoF then we know there's a serious voting pattern problem that needs to be addressed by staggering the rounds.

[TekindusT 3,809]

So, blunder and MilitantRadical have addresed my points. But you should add yet another variable to the game. Each user votes in a different way, moved by different purposes. You guys above are talking about how artsy a pic looks, how focused, framed, added effects. That's the, IMO, fair way of voting but... Some others, may just vote "the name", perhaps other guys, when it comes close, they just flip a coin. And their vote counts anyways; as a person just votes an X political party on an election because they are X. 

 

Each of us is moved by a variety of reasons when we vote, and they're not restricted to the SC4 contained on the picture. Both contending pictures tend to be of a very high SC4 quality (if there is a way of defining SC4 quality). Then, each of us puts their attention on different minimal features, and here things begin going crazy, and sometimes lead to landslides and sometimes lead to close hand-to-hand rounds.

 

One thing is sure, however. This contest barely has no memory. One picture can win with a landslide because it is technically perfect, but it a better, more artsy picture is contending on the next round, people doesn't tend to vote for the first picture again "to be faithful to it". It is about having the very best picture for 4 rounds.

 

EDIT: I would really like to see how pictures from the old-timer heavyweights are received on the contest.

[MilitantRadical 2,844]

Also, we haven't seen much entry by the old pros and those on top of the last 2 years BTT yet.  I really think that the entries in the competition thus far do not represent the best the community has to offer.  Sure we've had some great stuff by TekindusT, Huston, Vortext, Kalistamac, etc., but there's been a fair bit of stuff that is ... well, average.  When any new system starts, there's a fair bit of noise and variance until all the variables are settled out.  The seemingly erratic voting patterns thus far fit that bill (and i'd agree with you; some of the voting trends boggle my mind).  But i don't think it's enough to say we have a problem yet that needs addressing; i think these are just standard growing pains.  Now if Paeng or Towerdude or Marsh etc. walks in, drops some of their gold-plated awesome, and it gets voted down in the 4th round to a clearly inferior image just to deny entry into the HoF then we know there's a serious voting pattern problem that needs to be addressed by staggering the rounds.

 

I agree that a lot of the stuff posted so far has been average and I myself am guilty of holding back what I consider to be my "best". I agree that it is a bit too early to decide on my proposed rule change, but how do you even judge if something is "clearly inferior" if people are mainly just voting on feels and are inconsistent from round to round? Once the votes are cast there is no going back. For example I thought Blunder's pic to be  "clearly inferior" to Mymyjp's and Mymyjp's to be inferior to Vortex's, but look at where we are now. Look at how LnX beat me and Huston by such a landslide only to be defeated by Kisa in the next round. Not implying that anyone's pic was clearly inferior or superior, but something was clearly perceived as amazingly extraordinary in LnX's pic, then all of a sudden it wasn't. If Blunder's pic had gone up against LnX's would it have won? Time is also a factor since Kisa beat LnX due the the 24hr rule - we don't know for sure if Kisa would have won that round had it been played out 'till the point limit was reached. Another problem is people wanting to get their pictures into the competition simply voting, consciously or unconsciously, for the picture with the highest score to move things along. Maybe those who cast the deciding vote should not be allowed to post their picture next.

 

I don't know...

 

Lets see how things play out for now I guess.

[SimCoug 5,977]

Deciphering voting trends is like...   ...    ...    ...    ... 

 

in other words, don't even try.  Folks are gonna vote however they want and that's the beauty (and beast) of it.  

Keep in mind that the voters for each round will change each time, so there are many variables going on.  

I think it's best to keep the rules simple and just let it ride - I think we've seen some great images so far and I hope the wide range of participants continues.