Hamish's BAT Thread

[Hamish 1,369]

 Well, at the moment I'm relatively new to BATing, but I thought that is a better time than never to start one of these threads so I can get some really helpful advice from the masterminds of BAT. 

I have a few files on the STEX, New World Rototuna and The BeeHive, but to me they were sort of just practices. I'm happy with their outcome, but they were just buildings that I could make to see how the BAT works and whats the best way to get around problems.

I thought I may as well start this thread to get advice on my next building, Five Hundred Boylston st Boston. This is one of my most favorite buildings and I just had to model it. At the moment, as you can see from the picture below, it does not have textures, however I plan to do the most of those in my next bit of spare time. Other than that it is almost ready to go. Roof Junk has not been made yet, there are still a few tiny details that need to be made, and that black line around the lower roof, that will make more sense when textured.

Anyway, what do yo think?

I'll be back with a couple more pictures and a few more angles once I have the majority of the building textured.

[Hamish 1,369]

 Well, at the moment I'm relatively new to BATing, but I thought that is a better time than never to start one of these threads so I can get some really helpful advice from the masterminds of BAT. 

I have a few files on the STEX, New World Rototuna and The BeeHive, but to me they were sort of just practices. I'm happy with their outcome, but they were just buildings that I could make to see how the BAT works and whats the best way to get around problems.

I thought I may as well start this thread to get advice on my next building, Five Hundred Boylston st Boston. This is one of my most favorite buildings and I just had to model it. At the moment, as you can see from the picture below, it does not have textures, however I plan to do the most of those in my next bit of spare time. Other than that it is almost ready to go. Roof Junk has not been made yet, there are still a few tiny details that need to be made, and that black line around the lower roof, that will make more sense when textured.

Anyway, what do yo think?

I'll be back with a couple more pictures and a few more angles once I have the majority of the building textured.

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

Looking great so far! You seem to understand the process pretty well, the big hurdle you have ahead of you is texturing this monster.

The only concern I have at the moment is the mullions on the windows. They have a very particular rhythm to them in reality to the point where it becomes a significant feature in the facade. Maintaining that rhythm is vital if you want a recreation to translate into the digital world.

The checkerboard on the roof is gaudy and tasteless, but it sure hides the HVACs and utilities well Best of luck,

-Todd

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

Looking great so far! You seem to understand the process pretty well, the big hurdle you have ahead of you is texturing this monster.

The only concern I have at the moment is the mullions on the windows. They have a very particular rhythm to them in reality to the point where it becomes a significant feature in the facade. Maintaining that rhythm is vital if you want a recreation to translate into the digital world.

The checkerboard on the roof is gaudy and tasteless, but it sure hides the HVACs and utilities well Best of luck,

-Todd

[madhatter106 3,903]

Wow, what a curious looking building!

I think this one will be quite a looker once it has been textured and lit for night time.

What are the lot dimensions?

[madhatter106 3,903]

Wow, what a curious looking building!

I think this one will be quite a looker once it has been textured and lit for night time.

What are the lot dimensions?

[nofunk 1,933]

Wow! For being "relatively new" you've certainly come up with something masterful.

Looking at it critically, I would have to agree with SimHoTToDDy on the rhythm of the window mullions, which seems particularly important on those incredibly tall windows on the tower corners. Also, don't forget to scale the entire building vertically about 125% - 133% before exporting; right now it looks a little squat compared to the real building.

Can't wait to see more! And see textures!

[nofunk 1,933]

Wow! For being "relatively new" you've certainly come up with something masterful.

Looking at it critically, I would have to agree with SimHoTToDDy on the rhythm of the window mullions, which seems particularly important on those incredibly tall windows on the tower corners. Also, don't forget to scale the entire building vertically about 125% - 133% before exporting; right now it looks a little squat compared to the real building.

Can't wait to see more! And see textures!

[Hamish 1,369]

Well, I need to find more time to do this. Should get some more time in the next few weeks to edit this.

Well, heres an update:

 

Obviously just ignore the little things that aren't working at the moment. The courtyard still needs a little work, and the front of the facade needs editing. For example the untextured parts need to be remade and textured. The brown texture near the bottom in the middle needs to be changed to make the actual texture appear when rendered, and the roofs texture actually needs to stick when rendering. Any tips on that? because I can get one or the other to appear, but not all the time, and not really ever together, and if that does happen then something else breaks. A few other textures aren't quite looking right, but so far Im happy. And I still need to scale its height a bit, but other than that I think its looking good.

What do you guys think of it?

[Jasoncw 11,839]

I don't know what to say about the disappearing textures, I never had the problem myself when I was using gmax. I think there's some speculation about why it happens floating around though.

The roof texture is looking good. I'd change the tan border to white like it is in RL. The way it is now, it blends in with the walls. Plus the building is sort of on tan overload and this will help. Actually, in general, from the photographs the building doesn't seem quite as tan as you have it.

For the courtyard, I don't know what you were planning, but I think it might work well to BAT the ground there, so that you can texture in the paver pattern. Usually BATing in the ground is something to avoid, since shadows from other BATs won't be cast on BATed ground, and that looks funny in the game, but the courtyard is isolated enough that that probably wouldn't be a problem.

It's interesting to see a postmodern building being made, it seems like a lot got made 04-06 but since then there haven't been to many off the top of my head. Anyway it's looking good.

[harishna 847]

I had a similar problem with textures using gmax it was solved thanks to Heblem, here's his suggestion:

"there's a fast way to solve this problem, just make a new box and apply all textures you have in your gallery, then remove the box and save your file, thats it...."

hope this is helpful!

by the way really nice model!

[Hamish 1,369]

I was wondering if I could get some help. The problem is, I have no clue what is wrong, or why.

I made a few changes to the model, particularly stretching it to look higher, and now Im trying to do a quick export to see what it looks like in game, and if I should change anything to get it to fit on the lot better. But, it just won't export. Every time I get further and further, but never get it completed. I thought I could fix it myself, but it isn't quite right. I sometimes get an error at some point in the render, and I believe this to be a memory problem, I get a memory problem occasionally, the other times a window shows up, yet nothing gets displayed in it, its just black. Other times it just crashes.

What I want to know is how do you actually change the specified memory for gmax? There is an option in preferences, saying something like allocated memory, or something like that, Im sure you know what Im talking about. By default I found this at 20 Mb. I changed it to a much higher value, but it would not even render properly, changed it down to 30 Mb, still not rendering. Back to 20 Mb, renders fine, but memory problem. I know that it shouldn't be my computer, I have 4 Gb worth of RAM, so I am assuming that what I was trying to change was the problem.

I will get back to you with more information when I remember what some of the pop ups were actually saying, but in the mean time, what I think Im trying to ask is, is that the way to change the allocated memory? and are there any tips that I might try to stop this? or anything really.

Thanks, I know that this question was a little bit vague

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Your model in beautiful. Have you tryed merging your model in a new scene.

[Hamish 1,369]

Alright, back with a huge update.

I had major problems with this model, but there was no way that I was going to give up on this building, especially that I've got so far, only to have it completely fail in the home stretch. It got to a point where the base model was done, however two textures just would not stick while rendering, and if I added anymore to that scene then multiple textures would not render, or it would even fail to render. At that point roof junk was not done, neither was some tiny details that still needed to be completed. So, I thought about it for a bit, seeing as what ends up going into the model file is just images, I decided that some way or another I should be able to edit these files and change them so that they look like what it should.

However, rendering the main building would just fail, it seemed as if gmax just did not want to do it. But I figured out a way, the long way. Heres how it goes.

(Click images for full resolution)

I split the building into four bits. I rendered the lower half first. There is a lot of detail in the base of the building, and this was taking up a lot of the file space. Once rendered it look like this:

Then came the next step, which was to get the top half done. The most of the detail was in the windows and the very upper part of the building, so this was easier to render, however I had to also render the back of the base again as a glass texture didn't stick while rendering the first half. That turned out like this:

Now, I have the main building, well, at least in bits. I then had to go through and make the roof junk, or use some of my roof junk files. This is one of my favorite bits actually, its different from making the actual building, it turns the building from looking good, to fitting in with the feel of simcity.

So I made the bottom roof junk and rendered that as one part, heres what it looked like:

And then I had to make the very top half of the roof. Which turned out like this:

Once they were all rendered that gave me a total of about 464 fsh files that I could use, out of that I turned 298 into png files, as these were the ones that needed to be changed in order to get the building right. I then had to merge all of those files into 116 png files that would become all of the files that I need for my building. Once done I had to then turn them into fsh files again, put them in a dat, and place them into the model file. I then had to rename them all so that they would over write the old files, and then remove the old files so that it would show up right ingame.

This is only for the day scene though, I have not done the night scene yet, although I have the files needed to start to create the night scene.

To get the file to work on my mac however, I had to then change all of the fsh instance names to a free group, which is easy, I then had to go into the S3D part of the file and change the names in the mats tab so that they correspond to the fsh files. Thats changing 116 file names by hand to a different file name. 

And at that stage I had a file that eventually looked like this:

The lot isn't finished yet though, still need to add a few more overlay textures in the courtyard, but then the lot is done.

So, once I get the night scene done, which shouldn't take as long as the day scene has, then its almost done, I just need to lot it, which is quick because it wouldn't suit a complex lot, maybe just a few light fixtures would go down well, and some custom paving of the courtyard would look nice.

But, this is the final version of the building, as you can see from how long it has taken to get here, it would be impractical to go back and have to redo something. I might be able to change a fsh file or two, but not a whole part of the building.

Going to play around with the night lighting though, I may be able to fake some lights coming from props with the way that I am doing the lighting, that could look good. And that would also open up the courtyard to become lit up and fancy. Stay tuned for more updates, shouldn't be as long as this last one, although I might spend most of my time on getting the night scene working rather than showing updates. I'll try my best to show where I am as I progress through the night stage though.

Thanks for reading

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Thanks for reading

You're welcome!

I must say, an Impressive and interesting structure! The building reminds me of something Simgoober would do. Must have been frustrating to do all that work and re-name 116 files.  But overall I think it's worth it. I'm a tad concerned on that green texture on the curved roof though...looks a little too solid green. Just a thought.

Good luck with the night scene. If you need any help we BATers are here!

[Cockatoo 2,256]

Wow, Hamish, amazingly cleaver, but all that hard work!

Did you try the 3GB switch before you did all of this? It just recently worked wonders for me - made my computer render scenes I previously thought impossible. If all else fails, you can always outsource your rendering to someone with a more suited machine - heaps of people would be willing to help you out.

I'm not trying to take anything away from what you've done here - I never would have thought to do that, but rendering something of this size should never be so much work.

I feel your pain with the disappearing textures though. That (+ corrupted files) is probably the biggest incentive to move to Max. I used to find that re-applying the textures to all objects in the scene just before an export usually stopped any problems - but that's not a guarantee.

In summary - 4GB of ram should be heaps to render this thing. With the 3GB switch activated, I'd be very surprised if you couldn't get this thing to render, whole, in a single click ...unless you've already tried it in which case I sound like a bit of an idiot right now. If not, we're here to help!

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

I love this building, can't wait to see it finish. Keep it up.

[Jasoncw 11,839]

Yikes!! You shouldn't have to do all that work! But I commend your effort!

I don't really know anything about the problem you had, but hopefully you won't have it in the future.

[Hamish 1,369]

Small update...

After 4 months its finally finished, and up on the STEX.

Finished product, day view. Check out the STEX file for more images

 

Thanks for all the help and suggestions that you guys made on this building.

Going on holiday for a few weeks, be back after that with new inspiration for more projects.

[harishna 847]

Wow. That was a lot of hard work, the building came out pretty nicely. I had exactly the same problem with disappearing textures, I had to constantly re-apply the textures before rendering but I got to a point where this was not working. Mainly two textures kept disappearing, and a bunch more whenever I managed to make those two to appear. So I merged the model to a new scene leaving out the TB2camerahandlers out, cleaned the model of all not needed components, I discovered I had a couple of ghost components (mainly junk items that I thought I had deleted but appeared back in the merged scene) and some columns and other internal components that were nevert going to be seen. I also cleaned the textures just leaving exactly the ones I was using in the library, after doing all this I had no more problems during the rendering process.

[Hamish 1,369]

Its been a long time since I last updated this thread. Haven't really done much this year, but I'll show you some files that I've just been getting back into:

This file I just released onto the STEX as a small thank you to all of those that have helped make this site what it has become today.

FLAM Incorporated

Its just a collection of three small buildings on different sized lots. This was supposed to be an experimental building, just to play around with the new features of 3DS Max, however when the forum simoleons were announced and seeing the FLAM logo, I just new I had to use it somewhere. Then it turned into a small FLAM building. I knew I couldn't just release one building though, so I changed the model to fit on a 1x1 lot and made a 1x3 and 1x2 version, as well as also rendering as Dark Nite buildings too. I created some of my own props and edited some custom base textures to suit the building.

And thats how it turned out the way it did.

I've also started a few files along the way, with the intention of wanting to start some others too, but thats depending on the time I get.

Heres one. Its an apartment building, can't remember the lot sizes sorry...

Obviously, Ignore the pink, and most textures aren't final, but what do you think? Any suggestions? Shall I continue with this?

I've also done some work on a Cell Phone Tower:

Ignore the weird shadow, SC4 has been playing up a bit, been doing this on all buildings for a couple of days now...

Planning to lot onto a transparent base and make the lot more interesting. Also modd the file so it has some nice effects on the city. Going to create a few more versions for different city settings.

What do you think?

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

That small store looks great, I want you to make more. And I'm glad to see something from you.

[Ceafus 88 1,794]

Good Work, I agree with Aaron, you should make more,

[art128 4,618]

Small store is looking really nice Hamish !

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

Nice small building, like it!

[Spike345 20]

I like the apartment it looks somewhat Art Deco!

[Francis90b 748]

I think you shall continue working on your apartments .

[Hamish 1,369]

Okay, so no work on the apartment, but a couple have requested a few more small stores. Small stores aren't really my thing, but there are a few that I want to get into SC4.

Here is one that I came up with in a night.

Burgerfuel, they do the best burgers ever! No where else is better.

Anyway, Here is a small mock up of a building. The actual building itself doesn't actually exist, its just what popped into my head, and that was a mix of very dulled down art deco motifs. Textures are not final, nor is the model, however the front of the building is basically how I want it to be laid out. Day scene is pretty boring, that'll get some working on, but its the night views that have all the life (apart from there being no one inside...)

enough talking, here's what it looks like:

I know, same brick texture as the last building, I think it works better on this building though. Not too sure about the modeling of the back service door, what do you all think?

Obviously, no roof junk yet...

Now, I want to have a play around with timed props. I want there to be some out door seating on the bigger lots, so I want to see how feasible timed props of people are, then place them on the outside seating. Also, would it be possible to place timed prop people inside the building? (assuming I have the right LODs worked out) Or would it be easier, and look better if they were just modeled in there from the start?

Anyway, thoughts?

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Lovely, I love it. By you making this building I want a cheese burger.

My Sim City Story at the the Burgerfuel

One day sunny Tuesday, Aaron decided go to the Burgerfuel restaurant to order a cheese burger, fries, and a coke, he really had the munchies and he wanted a great meal so he walks in the Burgerfuel, and the waiter says, "Hello welcome to Burgerfuel my name is Kelly and I will be your waiter for this evening", Aaron says hey and finds a seat near the front window of the Burgerfuel restaurant. The waiter named Kelly walks to Aaron table and ask for Aaron's order, he ask for a cheese burger, fries, and a coke, the Kelly says, " Ok, it will take about ten minutes", so Aaron waits for this food so he can stop munching down on a juicy burger. About ten minutes later Aaron has his cheese burger, fries, and a coke on the table and he start munching down on the food like a wild dog. Once Aaron finished his meal he calls on the waiter Kelly so he can pay for the meal. The waiter walks over with the receipt in her hand and says the order will be $395.99, Aaron yelled, "what, you must be lying"!!!! Kelly shows Aaron the receipt, and it does say $395.99, So Aaron yelled, " O look there's Micheal Jackson", and Aaron ran out of the restaurant as fast as he can.

Fin

This is not a true story, I just wanted to have some fun.

  Edited July 19, 2011 by Aaron Graham  

[supremec 77]

You know what? I'm so happy to see an excellent BAT