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You'd be surprised how just following demand can trip you up.

From the region view, jot down the number of jobs in every city and total them up, then do the same for the residents. You should have approx 2x the number of residents as jobs, if those numbers are far apart, the problem should become clear. If you have the Census Repository installed, you can get these figures more easily from there too.

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Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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Demand for jobs comes from demand for housing which in turn creates demand for jobs. The cycle never ends. The developers are inclined toward overdevelopment, and a  mayors job is to control it. When there is oversupply of demand, the simulator takes control to restore the imbalance. Causing sims to move out. If left unchecked, it will continue to bounce back and forth. (They move in, no job and leave. Time passes and they move back but still no job and leave. And so on and so on.) Workforce percentage is slightly flexible with the varying health quotient. So it pays to keep them sims healthy and educated. Only over a lot of sim time, will you gain the full benefits and max out these. Also, if the available jobs become undesirable to its location, than there is a loss of that type of developer's job pool ratio, which could include the job the sims education level requires. Higher education levels requires different job pools ratios. Better EQ means better job ratios. Joblessness also increase the chance of crime. 

Below is from PRIMA ’ S OFFICIAL STRATEGY GUIDE™

"Every C or I building comes with a fixed number of jobs (usually proportional to the buildings’ size). Each job creates demand for roughly two Residential Sim (as dictated by the workforce percentage), a.k.a. “Workforce demand.”
Not any Sim will do; each building looks for workers in relation to their wealth level and requires fixed proportions of each. The proportions for all the “employer” developer types (I,Co, and Cs) are listed below: 

Workforce Demand
Developer Type R§ R§§ R§§§
CS§                     100% 0% 0%
CS§§                   68% 27% 5%
CS§§§                62% 30% 8%
CO§§                  40% 50% 10%
CO§§§                20% 65% 15%
IA                        100% 0% 0%
ID                        100% 0% 0%
IM                        50% 45% 5%
IH.                       10% 80% 10%

BUSINESS DEMAND
Business demand is the need by Residential Sims for businesses to provide their employment.
It serves as the force behind the various Industrial and Commercial demands. 
Whenever a Residential building is constructed, it demands jobs from businesses. Different residential wealth and educational levels dictate what jobs the occupants of the buildings will demand. If all goes well, a business building will appear that satisfies the demand and brings down the appropriate RCI Demand Meter. 

NOTE: Educational Quotient (EQ) is expressed here in four levels: 1–4.

Business Demand—Proportions of Businesses Called for by Residential Sims by Wealth Level

Bus. Dev. Type R§/EQ1 R§/EQ2 R§/EQ3 R§/EQ4 R§§/EQ1 R§§/EQ2 R§§/EQ3 R§§/EQ4 R§§§/EQ1 R§§§/EQ2 R§§§/EQ3 R§§§/EQ4
CS§                      25%         25%      20%         15%.        10%.         5%             —               —            5%.              —                   —                —
CS§§                     —             —            5%          10%        15%          20%.          25%          20%       15%.            10%.              5%              —
CS§§§                   —             —            —             —             —              —               —                5%.         5%.            15%              20%.          25%
CO§§                     —              —           15%.       45%.        20%.        30%.         15%           10%.       40%            40%              20%.           —
CO§§§                   —              —            —            15%.        —               5%.          15%           30%.       15%.           30%              40%.          50%
IA                           100%         —            —           —             80%          —               —               —              —                —                   —                —
ID                            75%          50%.      25%.      —             20%.        10%            —               —             10%            —                   —                —
IM                            —              25%.      35%.      15%         35%.        30%           20%           —             10%.           5%.               —                —
IH.                            —              —             —           —              —             —               25%           35%.         —              —                   15%           25% "

[pages 65 and 66]

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2 hours ago, Kloudkicker said:

Below is from PRIMA ’ S OFFICIAL STRATEGY GUIDE™
.
..
Not any Sim will do; each building looks for workers in relation to their wealth level and requires fixed proportions of each.

Thanks for that excerpt, @Kloudkicker.  Yes, I've observed that in-game.  When you couple the very specific wealth level and EQ level that each workplace is looking for, with the need (or preference) for a short and speedy commute, and the R$$$ inclination toward cars, and the R$ inclination toward mass transit, all those factors can have enormous impacts on employment.  Here's one of my tutorials on that:

 

6 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:
6 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Bulldoze and dezone any residential showing the no job zots while running time until you no longer have any which show said zot.

Umm... Are you sure? :nyah: Seems like brushing things under the carpet to me!

I'd either prefer to fix the transportation problem or offer more jobs... I guess.

Yes, both solutions are good solutions.  Better to bulldoze/dezone than to do nothing, because it's better to have one healthy tenement than two distressed tenements.  The big reason for that is when sims move out of town, they REALLY DO move out of town, and new sims moving in always move in with low EQ and low Health.  An unstable population ditches your EQ and Health progress every time they move out.

I also get the impression that an unstable population destabilises the economy in other ways, too, just like it would in real life.  Perhaps the game samples population minimums each year to determine jobs growth?

Another option is to dezone the workplaces, and move them closer to the residential.  That's particularly an issue with factory jobs, and certain civic jobs.  Civic jobs come in different flavours, too, both in terms of wealth ($, $$ or $$$), and in terms of commute tolerance.

And, as @TheMurderousCricket said, working on the transportation network to make car and mass transit more effective for the commuting sims is another solution, and that one is my personal favourite solution, too.  *:yes:

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    Guys,

    No offence, but I already read these instructions. At the moment, they bring nothing new to the game. I'll be a bit more precise...

    The question is - why is there a "Brown Hi-Rise" project which, chronologically, behaves like this:

    1. Develops and displays 1100 employees...
    2. ...just a few months later displays zero employees, "no job" zot and is in distress...
    3. ...gets abandoned...
    4. ...and is then again repopulated, showing 1400 employees. :nyah:

    All this, while there are no substantial changes to be seen in the Commercial or Industrial zone developments (no extra jobs appearing compared to what is already there).

    What makes the initial 1100 workers just loose their jobs, a few months after they have secured employment?

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    No offence, but I already read these instructions. At the moment, they bring nothing new to the game. I'll be a bit more precise...

    The question is - why is there a "Brown Hi-Rise" (and other) projects which, chronologically, behave like this:

    1. Develops and displays 1100 employees...
    2. ...just a few months later displays zero employees, "no job" zot and is in distress...
    3. ...gets abandoned...
    4. ...and is then again repopulated, showing 1400 employees. :nyah:

    Simply put, this problem is caused by over-optimism:

    1. residential building developers in SC4 are over-optimistic in their building plans, 
    2. residential sims moving in are over-optimistic about how good life will be in your city, and
    3. a long commute contributes to sims becoming depressed and leaving their job.

    The tutorial I referenced explains the commercial/industrial side of the same equation ... what I call the oompa-loompas.

    While R$$$ sims will move out for many various reasons, the biggest reason for R$ sims to leave is very simply because the jobs they want, or the jobs they can get, are too hard to travel to.  They start out optimistic that the long commute (or high pollution, or other factor) will be no big deal, but then reality bites, they get depressed, leave their job, and eventually leave the city.

    "So goodbye yellow brick road
    Where the dogs of society howl
    You can't plant me in your penthouse
    I'm going back to my plough
    Back to the howling old owl in the woods
    Hunting the horny back toad
    Oh, I've finally decided my future lies
    Beyond the yellow brick road"

    — Elton John, in Goodbye Yellow Brick Road

    The shattered dreams of individual sims bother me ... each and every No Job Zot bothers me.  :cry:
    Thank goodness SC4 doesn't model homelessness factors, but chronic unemployment is a factor in SC4 crime trends.

    The Less Abandonment mod mostly takes care of point 1 above, which also tends to take care of point 2.

    Myself, I prefer to use staged zoning, taxation strategies, commute optimisation, and keeping an eye on resident-to-job ratios (2 residents to each job) across the 12 categories of sim resident which @Kloudkicker referenced ... so I don't feel any need to get the Less Abandonment mod, but I've considered it as a way to put the brakes on gentrification.

    10 hours ago, Kloudkicker said:

    Business Demand—Proportions of Businesses Called for by Residential Sims by Wealth Level

    Bus. Dev. Type R§/EQ1 R§/EQ2 R§/EQ3 R§/EQ4 R§§/EQ1 R§§/EQ2 R§§/EQ3 R§§/EQ4 R§§§/EQ1 R§§§/EQ2 R§§§/EQ3 R§§§/EQ4
    CS§                      25%         25%      20%         15%.        10%.         5%             —               —            5%.              —                   —                —
    CS§§                     —             —            5%          10%        15%          20%.          25%          20%       15%.            10%.              5%              —
    CS§§§                   —             —            —             —             —              —               —                5%.         5%.            15%              20%.          25%
    CO§§                     —              —           15%.       45%.        20%.        30%.         15%           10%.       40%            40%              20%.           —
    CO§§§                   —              —            —            15%.        —               5%.          15%           30%.       15%.           30%              40%.          50%
    IA                           100%         —            —           —             80%          —               —               —              —                —                   —                —
    ID                            75%          50%.      25%.      —             20%.        10%            —               —             10%            —                   —                —
    IM                            —              25%.      35%.      15%         35%.        30%           20%           —             10%.           5%.               —                —
    IH.                            —              —             —           —              —             —               25%           35%.         —              —                   15%           25% "

    Even with the Less Abandonment mod, it's still important to be careful about zoning or plopping suitable workplaces for these 12 categories, near the homes for these 12 categories of sim resident.

    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    What makes the initial 1100 workers just loose their jobs, a few months after they have secured employment?

    An easy commute to a well matched job (across the 12 categories), is one of the best predictors of sim happiness.  Happy sims stay.  Unhappy sims leave.

    In my experience, highways, neighbour connections, ferries, and GLR/trams, are the most powerful methods of improving this easy commute factor, beyond simple proximity of home and work.  These are complex features, so the most powerful tool for you to analyse how to make your sims commute journeys easier, is the Route Query tool.  *:read:

    A sim with an easy commute to a well matched job ... is usually a happy sim.  Happy sims stay.  *:ducky:

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    All very fine points. Still, it's kind of unclear to me. Sims who live further out in the city, use their feet, subway then change onto bus to reach their work and don't mind it.

    Sims who live closer to the (geographical) city center and do roughly the same to reach said zone are unstable. :nyah:

    Besides, I use NAM. I'd figure Sims should be more resistant to traffic disappointments. But still...?

    On the other hand, my 200k city has a rather messy communication. Bus stops don't cover all areas. Subway does not reach the industrial zone and has a few winding tunnels... I already spearheaded its reconstruction to have more straight lines. There are also hardly any avenues leading straight from the residential zone and into the industrial zone (commercial is partially connected).

    But anyway, I still feel that I'm so darn good at this game this should not be happening. *:rofl:


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    11 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    On the other hand, my 200k city has a rather messy communication. Bus stops don't cover all areas. Subway does not reach the industrial zone and has a few winding tunnels... I already spearheaded its reconstruction to have more straight lines. There are also hardly any avenues leading straight from the residential zone and into the industrial zone (commercial is partially connected).

    Sounds like you know where to spend your time and sim money on, transportation. Its is a key component and should not be underdeveloped or overlooked for a successful, functioning city and/or region. Later on in a cities development commercial becomes a bigger part of the equation than in the begging and should be the bigger focus for the long term. 

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    38 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Sims who live closer to the (geographical) city center and do roughly the same to reach said zone are unstable. :nyah:

    Sims who live furthest from the city borders, might also live a long way from a neighbour connection.

    That would be one factor that makes unemployment more likely in the "(geographical) city center".  The Route Query tool will help you to diagnose the issue.  On several occasions for me, the problem was a faulty piece of highway or mass transit that needed rebuilding, but there are many possible causes that could afflict this one residential building ... or even an entire residential neighbourhood.

    Neighbour Connections alter the easy commute factor in powerful ways.

    38 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    But anyway, I still feel that I'm so darn good at this game this should not be happening. *:rofl:

    I've got a whole neighbourhood that's misbehaving at the moment, so I've moved off to developing another neighbour city, to provide a firmer regional economic foundation for the misbehaving neighbourhood.

    The unpredictability of the game is part of it's appeal.  I always feel like there's a few more variables I haven't figured out yet.    :LlamaLeap:

    38 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    All very fine points. Still, it's kind of unclear to me. Sims who live further out in the city, use their feet, subway then change onto bus to reach their work and don't mind it.
    ...
    Besides, I use NAM. I'd figure Sims should be more resistant to traffic disappointments. But still...?

    Nope, NAM doesn't eliminate the easy commute factor for creating sim happiness.  I confirmed that across many experiments.  On one of her famous experiment posts, @CorinaMarie did a very tightly controlled experiment along these lines, confirming that sims are happy to commute further for office jobs than for factory jobs.

    Keep in mind the 12 categories of employee that @Kloudkicker mentioned.  *:read:   It's not just about providing 1 job for every 2 residents.

    My experiments (using NAM 36) show that sims will commute further for a Police Station job than for Solar Power Plant job.  They'll commute even further for an Airport job, and are happy with very long intercity commutes if they can go via a nearby Neighbour Connection, or a nearby Ferry terminal.

    NAM gives you more tools to make your sims happy, but each and every unhappy sim needs careful investigation using the Route Query tool.

    In my experience, it was never the sim that made themselves unemployed and unhappy.  It was the city that did that to them.  Figuring out how my city made them unhappy, and fixing it, is part of what I really like about the game.  *:yes:

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    3 minutes ago, Naomi57 said:

    NAM gives you more tools to make your sims happy, but each and every unhappy sim needs careful investigation using the Route Query tool.

    Gahhhh... But how am I supposed to use it for diagnosis if they are just sitting home, unemployed? *:lol:

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    7 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Gahhhh... But how am I supposed to use it for diagnosis if they are just sitting home, unemployed? *:lol:

    Admittedly, that is annoying.

    You can find out the Route Query for their friends in the same building, or their neighbours next door, but that's still not quite as good as finding out where the unemployed sim worked.  *:no:

    If the building repopulates, pause the game to diagnose!!!

    My preferred option is to use my super powers of premonition and foretelling.  As mayor, along with being immortal, I also use Cheetah mode (Cheetah, not Cheater), to see the future before it happens, then I exit without saving and go back in time to see where the hapless sim worked (and what route they took) before they became unemployed.  *:bunny:

    I personally take this Cheetah (or Rhino) mode rerunning of the game to Groundhog Day extremes, even running difficult scenarios dozens of times with minor variations ... and you don't need to go that far!   If you've just done something that could prove tricky, pause, save, and test it out in Cheetah (or Rhino) mode.  Turn 20/20 hindsight into 20/20 foresight.  *:kitty:

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    Among all the excellent replies there's one factor that could be affecting things which I didn't see mentioned and that is transit station overload.

    If any single one (bus stop, subway station, train station, etc, etc) goes to roughly 400% (or more) of its capacity then the entire mass transit for the entire city tile shuts down for that sim day. If this is happening often, then some of the Sims get madder than a barefoot centipede standing on a hot rock and move out. Ofc, this moving out (especially in large numbers) might then drop the problem below the threshold and now things seem fine for a wee little while. New Sims move in cause it's in the barely ok category and in turn cause it to tip the other way.

    Many early custom creations were made when such huge cities where not considered nor was this transit overload known about. All it takes is one which is modded way too low to cause such fluctuations.

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    2 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

    Among all the excellent replies there's one factor that could be affecting things which I didn't see mentioned and that is transit station overload

    This does deserve a closer look at any custom mass transit stations you have. I have spent days looking at 30 or so custom stations and found some odd and strange things. Even for my limited knowledge on the issue, some things observed would help explain the weird behavior observed in game with those stations. Some due to older mods and some are because it was designed for the creators needs in mind. Others are maybe due to improperly entering info. Found 3 mods so far, that where never in any game menu list because they were missing the menu placement code to show up in the game. *:rofl:

    But all stations can suffer from over usage, even the maxis ones if they get close to 400% capacity. 

    1. Play and observe, while pausing and checking around with query tool and data graphs. Play for 2 years on medium or one on slow. Write things down for comparing later.

    2. Don't save and exit. Reenter and change a few network "things" that seem over used and/or make new paths for them to use to the main work areas keeping in mind that return trips are needed. Return trips can be different from going to work trips and can change the dynamics of the trips over all effectiveness. Don't only use the view the morning routes graph as I tend to do.:uhm:

    3. Repeat step 1 after rebuilding step 2 and make the new changes and run the simulator about 2 years on medium. Or one year on slow. Now compare the notes from the two "runs". What has changed? What can you change to help increase the sims movement around.

    4. Repeats step 3 and include the first run changes in step 2 with the new thought of changes from step 3 until you are happy they seem happy enough not to move out in droves.

    That's when you save the city.

    Trial and error is sometimes the only way to know what each city requires. And each city will require its own unique setup. 

    One other thing is not to forget to play connecting cities for a few years, after running the simulator of long periods in just one city. Their is up to a simulated 10% population growth demand(future growth) from connected cities and this 10% can be used up if playing one city for long periods. Bouncy around cites, playing them for may years to get the extra population demand back in balance.

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    It's fixed. :]

    I took a closer look on the failing neighborhood and found out that when Sims within have a job, they travel to the farthest reaches of the map, to some of the last understaffed factories they could find. As was mentioned before, the transit system was ailing and lacked coverage.

    I have expedited the construction of an avenue bridge and turned one of the roads into an avenue as well. Albeit, at a cost of about 5000 residents that lived nearby...

    But it was not until I pulled a subway line to the industrial area that a real change took place. The subway usage in the failing $R area has skyrocketed and soon stabilized the area. One of the blocks has even developed an unconditional affinity to subway - query tool shows a rock steady 1816 people ridership in this building.

    Also, the new subway lines allowed me to compensate the road construction losses - the city earned 27000 new residents.

    I now have just a few isolated problematic pockets that prefer to walk to the subway, get on the bus, and then on a ferry to reach... I don't know what, given there is no other port in the entire region... :boggle: *:P But it's just a question of about 200 Sims, rather than 6000.

    6 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

    Among all the excellent replies there's one factor that could be affecting things which I didn't see mentioned and that is transit station overload.

    Damn... I didn't realize there was a mechanism like that... Hmmm, some of my subway stations operate at 8200 people daily but so far, I can't see any adverse effects. I presume I wouldn't even know how to fix it... :lost:

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

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    50 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    It's fixed. :]

    I took a closer look on the failing neighborhood and found out that when Sims within have a job, they travel to the farthest reaches of the map, to some of the last understaffed factories they could find. As was mentioned before, the transit system was ailing and lacked coverage.

    I have expedited the construction of an avenue bridge and turned one of the roads into an avenue as well. Albeit, at a cost of about 5000 residents that lived nearby...

    But it was not until I pulled a subway line to the industrial area that a real change took place. The subway usage in the failing $R area has skyrocketed and soon stabilized the area. One of the blocks has even developed an unconditional affinity to subway - query tool shows a rock steady 1816 people ridership in this building.

    Also, the new subway lines allowed me to compensate the road construction losses - the city earned 27000 new residents.

    I now have just a few isolated problematic pockets that prefer to walk to the subway, get on the bus, and then on a ferry to reach... I don't know what, given there is no other port in the entire region... :boggle: *:P But it's just a question of about 200 Sims, rather than 6000.

    Damn... I didn't realize there was a mechanism like that... Hmmm, some of my subway stations operate at 8200 people daily but so far, I can't see any adverse effects. I presume I wouldn't even know how to fix it... :lost:

    Well done Mayor!

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    8 hours ago, Kloudkicker said:

    This does deserve a closer look at any custom mass transit stations you have. I have spent days looking at 30 or so custom stations and found some odd and strange things. Even for my limited knowledge on the issue, some things observed would help explain the weird behavior observed in game with those stations. Some due to older mods and some are because it was designed for the creators needs in mind.

    You have to consider a number of factors, starting with how most modders would have considered following the Maxis values for custom Transit Stops, seemed logically a good system, right? Add too that, the kinds of populations and capacities we are using the last 10 years, were unthinkable on a Pentium 4 system that cost a small fortune in 2003, combined it has become a legacy problem.

    8 hours ago, Kloudkicker said:

    But all stations can suffer from over usage, even the maxis ones if they get close to 400% capacity. 

    Which is precisely why the NAM has altered all of them, provided you select this (default) component during install. What needs to happen before the updated Capacity/TSEC can be used by the simulator though, is you must replace all the stations manually.

    The old NAM installer used to also run something known as SLURP, the Station Locator, Updater and Replacer (or some such, geez I should know, I'm in charge of that technically). The MTA, which is sort of a subdivision of RTMT, but also working in tandem with the NAM team, it's complex, have SLURPed many of the most popular stations over the years. Upon running the NAM installer, it would look to see if the relevant stations were in your Plugins folder, then include patches for them where necessary. Currently, since NAM 37, this is no longer possible and hopefully in future a standalone package or some other solution will be available to continue providing these patches. Although with the change in community rules, perhaps it would make more sense, where possible, to just patch the files on the exchanges.

    4 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Hmmm, some of my subway stations operate at 8200 people daily but so far, I can't see any adverse effects. I presume I wouldn't even know how to fix it... :lost:

    Query the affected lots, look at the Reserve Capacity, if it's all "white out", it indicates a potential issue and the lot in question should probably be updated. It's easy enough to change if you know what you're doing, but again it's a situation where we need to know which lots/content to fix really.

    Really, the best solution is to ensure you've the Maxis updates from the NAM, plus to use RTMT where possible, these lots are well modded for current and future needs. Of course that doesn't extend to many of the wonderful creations that are out there, but again reporting low capacity lots gives the best chances of getting them fixed/optimised.

    4 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    But it was not until I pulled a subway line to the industrial area that a real change took place. The subway usage in the failing $R area has skyrocketed and soon stabilized the area. One of the blocks has even developed an unconditional affinity to subway - query tool shows a rock steady 1816 people ridership in this building.

    Z's testing empirically proves that Subway is by far the fastest method of transit you can use in SC4. For really dense cities to function, it's almost necessary. Subways don't get bogged down by traffic very easily, tend to be much more direct in terms of routes, and if stations are placed correctly, require little distance to/from them to residences and jobs.

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    Ahhhh. Time to revive the good 'ol topic! *:thumb:

    I'm experiencing the job problem again and hope you could help me tackle it. *:yes:

    I started to redevelop large portions of my main city and, apparently, this has induced certain instability to it. When some of the zones redeveloped, I started to get some incidental (at least for now) abandonments caused by the lack of job. Only R$ Sims are affected by this and I have three buildings that continue to fail.

    I was hoping to alleviate the situation a little by offering farming jobs outside of the city.

    Well, guess what - they are not taking them...

    I use SPAM mod and when I check some of the farm tiles, they display 0/1 jobs taken (SPAM provides jobs per farm tile). For that matter, the main farm buildings fall short of their potential as well. Offering only 14/35, 10/25, 15/35 jobs and so on.

    The stream of jobless people drives right next and through these farms, on to the next town. Unwilling to secure a job there!

    What's wrong here? :uhm:

    Here is an example of what one of the farm dialogues shows:

    Current jobs: 15/34
    Wealth: $
    Land value: Low
    Powered: Yes
    Watered: No
    Parcel Class: AG-2

    Pollution: Low
    Garbage: Low
    Crime: Low
    Freight trips: Short

    Farm acreage: 27 Acres
    % of tot. commerce: 69%
    Farming workforce: 411
    % of total workforce: 364%

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    I know from experiments that sims will commute a long way for a cushy office job, or for a police or airport worker job.  I'm guessing they might commute a reasonable distance for a sweet little retail job, but I haven't tested that out.

    Sims don't like to travel far for a factory job or farm job.  That's just what it is.  If there's a long commute either side of their hard labour, they tend to decide that moving on and moving out is the better option.

    25 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I started to redevelop large portions of my main city and, apparently, this has induced certain instability to it. When some of the zones redeveloped, I started to get some incidental (at least for now) abandonments caused by the lack of job. Only R$ Sims are affected by this and I have three buildings that continue to fail.

    I was hoping to alleviate the situation a little by offering farming jobs outside of the city.

    Well, guess what - they are not taking them...

    How far and how easy is the commute to the neighbour connection?  That's usually the topmost factor for R$ sims travelling to a neighbour city for work ... with the commute on the other side of the neighbour connection being less of an issue.  One way to improve their commute involves:

    1. Highway bus route to the neighbour connection, plus
    2. Subway shuttle connection to the highway bus stop.

    A highway bus stop that has a built-in subway underneath works best for this.  I personally like this one from the NAM.

    Elevated Road Bus Stop and Subway Station - Jamaica Bay.jpg

    At a minimum, I connect a subway shuttle under the highway, between the two Elevated Road Bus Stop and Subway Stations.

    Elevated Road Bus Stop and Subway Station - Jamaica Bay (subway view).jpg

    These are designed for use on an L2 elevated highway, but I like using them for ground highways, too.  *:D

    Any strategy you pursue, is best tested on a new building, rather than a vacant one.  Dezone all your distressed R$ housing, and grow it again bit by bit, focusing mostly on those areas furthest from the neighbour connection, to test feasibility of your strategy.

    This sort of issue can be affected by other factors.  Do you think other factors might be affecting things in your case?  A screenshot might help in spotting potential issues.

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    Thanks @Naomi57. Nice to hear from you again. *:yes:

    Let's start with the stats. My entire region has 252'000 citizens and 144'000 jobs according to census.

    The main city has a population of 241'000 citizens and 135'000 jobs available.

    Now for the screenshots...

    As you can see in take #1, the Sims pour out through this road here:

    examp1.jpg.2e8a77908027dce70938f4be7fa36b5f.jpg

    Then, they continue along, passing understaffed farms on their way, and carry on to a small town... which has only 1700 jobs available. Some of which, of course are already taken. *:???:

    examp2.jpg.3ca92267392654204546b30bebb824a4.jpg

    There is nothing else further on in terms of civilization or offices. The diagonal road in the second picture is, interestingly, seldom used and carries only about 50 cars at any given time.

    I gotta say, the big city is badly designed on purpose. The idea was to build it in a similar way to like it was in the "source material". *;)

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    There are a few of possible issues here:

    The first is a lack of jobs available at these farms. The "Current Jobs" number can be misleading. Most players initially think it means the number of people employed vs. the total number of jobs available (e.g., 15 employees / 24 jobs total available). What it actually indicates is the total number of jobs currently available vs. the total number of jobs that could be available under ideal conditions (e.g., 15 jobs currently available / 24 jobs available under ideal conditions). To increase the number of available jobs, you would need to improve the desirability conditions for agriculture. This can depend on a few factors, but the most important one is flat land -- farms don't like hills, and they will provide fewer jobs if you grow them on hills.

    The second -- and the more likely problem -- is the eternal commuter bug. You posted this screenshot in another thread yesterday:

    Xtracash1.jpg

    ...which looks like ideal conditions for the eternal commuter bug.

    Basically, the eternal commuter bug happens like this:

    • When a Sim needs a job, they will look for jobs in the existing city tile, as well as neighboring cities.
    • To choose a job, the Sim will always opt for the nearest compatible job in the existing city OR the nearest neighboring city with available jobs (regardless of where those jobs are actually located within that city).
    • If the commute time to a neighboring city with available jobs is shorter than the commute time to the nearest job in the existing city, the Sim will go to the neighboring city to look for work.
    • When the Sim enters the new city, they start this process over again. That is, they will choose between the nearest compatible job in the existing city tile OR the nearest neighboring city with available jobs.
    • Sims will never go backwards to the City tile they just came from during this process. That is, if they leave City A and go to City B to look for work, they won't travel back to City A because it's the closest city. Unfortunately, Sims can end up back at City A if they complete a loop of 3 or more cities, which creates an eternal loop where they're constantly looking for work in the next city.

    For example:

    • You have three cities: City A, City B, and City C. The cities are clustered together, and you have a road that loops them together near their corners.
    • Sim starts in City A. The Sim sees a job in City A that is 20 minutes away. They also see that there are available jobs in City B. The nearest connection to City B is 10 minutes away. The Sim goes to City B to look for work.
    • When the Sim enters City B, they see the nearest job is 30 minutes away. The Sim will ignore available jobs in City A, since it just came from that City. However, it sees that City C has available jobs and it is only 5 minutes away. The Sim goes to City C to look for work.
    • When the Sim enters City C, they see the nearest job is 25 minutes away. The Sim ignores City B, but it sees that City A has available jobs, and it's only 15 minutes away! The Sim goes to City A to look for work.
    • When the Sim gets to City A, the entire process starts all over. The Sim is now trapped in an eternal commute and never finds a job, even though all three cities have job openings available.

    It's a really annoying feature. There are a couple of ways that you can avoid it:

    • Space out neighbor connections to to different cities as much as possible. Never build connections to two different cities in close proximity to one another.
    • Avoid creating continuous cities. I.e., if a Sim leaves City A, make it impossible for them to return to City A without backtracking along the same route.
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    27 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Thanks @Naomi57. Nice to hear from you again. *:yes:

    Let's start with the stats. My entire region has 252'000 citizens and 144'000 jobs according to census.

    The main city has a population of 241'000 citizens and 135'000 jobs available.

    Now for the screenshots...

    As you can see in take #1, the Sims pour out through this road here:

    examp1.jpg.2e8a77908027dce70938f4be7fa36b5f.jpg

    Then, they continue along, passing understaffed farms on their way, and carry on to a small town... which has only 1700 jobs available. Some of which, of course are already taken. *:???:

    examp2.jpg.3ca92267392654204546b30bebb824a4.jpg

    There is nothing else further on in terms of civilization or offices. The diagonal road in the second picture is, interestingly, seldom used and carries only about 50 cars at any given time.

    I gotta say, the big city is badly designed on purpose. The idea was to build it in a similar way to like it was in the "source material". *;)

    Sorry - started writing my last post before I saw this.

    There are a couple possible issues I can think of here:

    1. The first is the available jobs issue I mentioned in my first post. If a farm says it has 15/24 current jobs, that doesn't mean it has jobs available. It might be the case that your farms are already at capacity.
    2. The second is whether you have the NAM traffic controller installed. The Maxis traffic controller works very poorly, and it causes Sims to badly miscalculate commute times. The NAM traffic controller corrects this issue.

    Edit: I see a NAM overpass in one of the screenshots, so I'm assuming you have the NAM traffic controller installed. My guess would be that there simply aren't any jobs available at the farms.

    Edit 2: Another thought -- I believe SPAM expands the types of jobs available at farms, so that farms also offer jobs for R$$ and R$$$ Sims. So it's possible that you have available jobs at your farms, but that the jobs are for higher wealth Sims. I would need to double-check the SPAM readme to confirm this, though.

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    33 minutes ago, BartonThinks said:

    To increase the number of available jobs, you would need to improve the desirability conditions for agriculture.

    My farms are indeed located on a flat land. But you have a point there! It looks like the high traffic reduces this desirabilty!

    Would mean that improving farms goes hand to hand with offering more, easily accessible jobs. *:yes:

    I am aware of the eternal commute mechanism. Perhaps it has indeed finally creeped up on me!

    31 minutes ago, BartonThinks said:

    I believe SPAM expands the types of jobs available at farms, so that farms also offer jobs for R$$ and R$$$ Sims.

    Correct! *:ohyes:

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    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    15 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    My entire region has 252'000 citizens and 144'000 jobs according to census.

    The main city has a population of 241'000 citizens and 135'000 jobs available.

    Those are good stats.

    Narrowing that down by sim education level EQ1, EQ2, EQ3, EQ4, and education level required for the job, is hard, but you might find you can acquire stats comparing:

    • R$ sims to I-D, I-Ag, I-M, CS$ jobs.
    • R$ sim proximity to suitable jobs.
    • R$ sim proximity to the most desirable jobs they can aspire to (e.g. CS$ if their EQ is low).

    I've never used SPAM, so cannot comment on jobs available on SPAM farms.  Whether SPAM is even capable of making farming jobs highly desirable, is something else.  I get the impression that job desirability is hard-coded into the game, and farming jobs are close to the bottom of the job desirability pile, unfortunately.

    The most desirable jobs, as measured by willingness to commute a long distance, are airport jobs, then office jobs, then police jobs, based on the experiments I've run.

    On the face of it, what you've described sounds good.

    15 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Now for the screenshots...

    As you can see in take #1, the Sims pour out through this road here:

    examp1.jpg.2e8a77908027dce70938f4be7fa36b5f.jpg

    I've annotated your screenshot, showing the changes I'd make if the employment problems you describe are really, really stubborn.  You'll probably only need some of these changes.

    60f24ce926df3_TheMurderousCricketRJobsTrouble17Jul2021(answer).jpg.e0c58ceac3cddf20ffdb49945aa4eea2.jpg

    (1)  Turn that bridge into a highway bridge (if you've got the money), and extend it all the way out to the neighbour connection, shown by the thick double orange lines.

    (2)  Along the highway near the neighbour connection, is an ideal spot to zone some retail or office blocks adjacent to the highway, employment opportunities en route to escaping the city smog.  *:read:  Here's an example layout of what that commercial zoning looks like, adjacent but facing away from the highway.

    5ff5a1f6c037f_ConvertCAVE-4toRHW-4Plan.png.e4ed5bc6046787413302a7353b5280d4.png

    (3)  Build high density R$ tenements nearer to the city border, to shorten the key commute distance ... a speedy trip to that first crucial neighbour connection.  Once they pass that first neighbour connection, sims are suddenly afflicted with wanderlust and happy to travel extreme distances, almost forgetting that they are looking for a job!  *:lol:

    (4)  Link up the 2-tile wide highway bridge (Ground L0 MHW), with 1-tile wide highway-grade arterial roads (RHW-2), shown with pink lines.  You might need a transition from Maxis Highway (MHW) to Avenue (AVE-4) to Arterial (RHW-2), to make it work without a massive interchange.  Note that RHW-2 does not provide RCI access, so you might need to demolish some of the buildings if their zoning faces the RHW-2 arterial route.  The riverside road I've indicated with pink lines is especially tempting to make highway grade, so that it becomes a very popular scenic drive for sims on their way to work.  *:8)

    (5)  Alternatively to (1) and (4) above, you might leave the avenue bridge as it is, transition to highway from the bridge to neighbour connection, and put through a subway line from R$ tenements to highway, shown in bright yellow

    As an aside, did you know that bridges carry power?  No need for the power lines, but that spot where you have power lines could be ideal for a FLUPs tunnel parallel to the bridge, as a second route to the neighbour connection.  *:bunny:

    15 hours ago, BartonThinks said:

    When the Sim enters the new city, they start this process over again. That is, they will choose between the nearest compatible job in the existing city tile OR the nearest neighboring city with available jobs.

    This looking for the nearest compatible job is very highly influenced by proximity of one neighbour connection to the next, and I think the proximity is as the crow flies, not the traffic route.    That helps explain why your bus fare takings are so good in your nature reserve!  *:yes: 

    On 16/07/2021 at 4:36 AM, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Xtracash2.jpg.130faf4601a82117961e974a825103c3.jpg

    :lol: :lol:

    I heard there is a big party going on in the Jackson City City Hall. They no longer have to finance the national park! :party:

    If the neighbour connection is closer than the jobs, then they'll take the neighbour connection ... hence, wanderlust!

    :LlamaLeap::rofl::ohyes:

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    @Naomi57 As far as I know, pretty much everything you need to know about job desirability (beyond commute time) is contained in the game's occupation drives, which are documented here:

    https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=963.msg26318#msg26318

    Outside of possibly civic jobs (more on this in a second), I don't think any particular type of job is more inherently desirable than another. Instead, the desirability is dependent on the sim's wealth and education levels, as well as the availability of different job classes within a city.

    Based on that, I would imagine the reason so many Sims are willing to accept long commutes for office jobs is that your city's wealth and education makeup has given it a population that strongly prefers office positions. For example, R$$$ sims of every education level prefer office jobs to other types of work, as do highly educated R$ and R$$ sims. So if your city has a more wealthy or heavily educated population, that would explain why so many of your Sims find office jobs desirable.

    Regarding airport jobs, police jobs, and other jobs at civic buildings. Each civic buildings offers a set commercial services jobs (presumably for maintenance staff), plus another set of jobs that is labeled simply "Jobs." These jobs are available in different amounts for different sim wealth levels depending on the building. However, beyond that, there's no distinction between different types of civic jobs. That is, the game doesn't distinguish between airport jobs, police jobs, medical jobs, etc.

    I'm not as familiar with how demand drives for the "Jobs" category are handled. Based on your tests, I would guess that the game automatically tries to staff civic jobs first before it attempts to fill commercial and industrial positions. That is, a Sim will always take a Civic job before a commercial or industrial job, provided: (a) a suitable job for their wealth level is available, and (b) the job is within the maximum commute distance. That would explain why Sims will travel extra-long commutes for these jobs compared to other ones. Hopefully someone else stops by who knows how the game handles this job class. *:)

    As for neighbor connections -- my understanding is that the NAM traffic controller gets rid of "as the crow flies" calculations entirely -- but I might be wrong about that.

    Also -- what?? bridges carry power??? I've built how many cities with ugly power lines crossing my rivers for no reason????

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    On a separate note -- @TheMurderousCricket, one thing you might want to try is to simply zone a small patch of medium-density industry near the farms, without destroying any of the existing farm lots. If the industrial area develops and some of your low-wealth Sims accept jobs there, that would indicate that there's a lack of appropriate low-wealth jobs available at the existing farms. If low-wealth sims ignore the new industrial jobs completely, then something else (like a problem with the commuter calculations) is causing the issue.

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    14 minutes ago, BartonThinks said:

    As for neighbor connections -- my understanding is that the NAM traffic controller gets rid of "as the crow flies" calculations entirely -- but I might be wrong about that.

    All tests I've done indicate that the game first picks a potential job for a Sim as the crow flies and only then does it hand it over to the traffic controller to see if they can get to said job in a reasonable amount of time. What the Simulator Z of NAM essentially does is tweak the look ahead variable of the algorithm to a much greater distance as well as tells it to pick the quickest route rather than the shortest.

     

    2 minutes ago, BartonThinks said:

    If the industrial area develops and some of your low-wealth Sims accept jobs there, that would indicate that there's a lack of appropriate low-wealth jobs available at the existing farms.

    ^ And for this, use the Route Query tool on the individual buildings to see how many Sims go there.

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    22 minutes ago, BartonThinks said:

    Also -- what?? bridges carry power??? I've built how many cities with ugly power lines crossing my rivers for no reason????

    Yes! You don't need the ugly lines across the river really. Water line's still needed tho.

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    21 minutes ago, BartonThinks said:

    Outside of possibly civic jobs (more on this in a second), I don't think any particular type of job is more inherently desirable than another. Instead, the desirability is dependent on the sim's wealth and education levels, as well as the availability of different job classes within a city.

    According to official documentation, yes, it's just about matching wealth ($,$$, or $$$), and education (EQ1,EQ2,EQ3, or EQ4), and commute time/distance, between sim resident and job opportunity.

    Based on game experiments, there's other factors of job desirability that impact the length of commute that a sim will tolerate.  @CorinaMarie has done at least one highly structured experiment to prove that office jobs support a longer commute than factory jobs.

    I've done many less structured experiments that indicate a hierarchy of job desirability measured in willingness to commute across a Large city tile (256x256).  Much of the hierarchy is approximate but some are very obvious in the game behaviour if you test it with the Route Query tool:

    1. Airport work is different to other civic jobs, and sims are willing to travel long distances for the privilege and prestige of working at the airport.  *:lol:
    2. Commercial workers travel further than factory workers.
    3. Museum workers and elementary school workers are the least willing to commute far.

    I can extrapolate out a full list of job desirability, based on my analysis of game behaviour, but that full list is less certain, because much of commute behaviour involves finer degrees of difference compared to the above three rules.

    Just try to convince a sim to travel across a 256x256 large city for a factory job or power plant job, without using a neighbour connection!  I've never managed that feat, but convincing them to do the same for an airport job just requires a prosperous city and a good direct highway route.

    21 minutes ago, BartonThinks said:

    Regarding airport jobs, police jobs, and other jobs at civic buildings. Each civic buildings offers a set commercial services jobs (presumably for maintenance staff), plus another set of jobs that is labeled simply "Jobs." These jobs are available in different amounts for different sim wealth levels depending on the building. However, beyond that, there's no distinction between different types of civic jobs. That is, the game doesn't distinguish between airport jobs, police jobs, medical jobs, etc.

    This is, indeed, what modders see.

    If you could crack open the .EXE file, I fully expect you would see something more complicated.  There is no official explanation, and no way to check the source code, but my experiments (and Cori's experiments) indicate there is more subtlety than can be seen via iLive's Reader.  It would be rather fascinating to read the source code, but that would take the mystery away.  *:kitty:

    Power Plant jobs are most definitely less desirable than Airport jobs, even though they are both Civic jobs.  Based on my experiments, a Solar Thermal Power Plant seems to have a similar level of job desirability as a Coal Power Plant, which was a surprise.  That's even with the I-HT missing jobs fix ... a Solar Power Plant job just isn't that attractive.

    22 minutes ago, BartonThinks said:

    Also -- what?? bridges carry power??? I've built how many cities with ugly power lines crossing my rivers for no reason????

    IKR, I'd been doing that for years before I stumbled across that little feature completely by accident!  :ooh:

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    Steps taken thus far:

    1. @BartonThinks was right to suggest increasing the farm desirability. Farms suffered due to them being built right next to a very busy road. Kind of reasonable - would you like to eat corn that grew next to a traffic jam?

    I, kind of, cheated though. I simply placed some of the overpowered "rye grass" mmps to hack my way to victory. :)

    I got confused by the SPAM readme though! It states that farming near polluted areas should be no problem. Well, it is!

    2. I rezoned some R$ in favor of CS, generating more jobs, while reducing the number of people who seek them. Small suburbian farms alone are not enough to provide jobs to 2200 people. Interestingly, the outpour of workers has been reduced to 1400!

    3. @Naomi57 holy mackerel skies! Avenues carrying electricity! It works! *:thumb: *:thumb:

    • Like 4

    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    10 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

    All tests I've done indicate that the game first picks a potential job for a Sim as the crow flies and only then does it hand it over to the traffic controller to see if they can get to said job in a reasonable amount of time. What the Simulator Z of NAM essentially does is tweak the look ahead variable of the algorithm to a much greater distance as well as tells it to pick the quickest route rather than the shortest.

    Well, that's interesting. I guess I've just structured my connections in a way where this behavior's not very noticeable. Glad to learn something new today! *:)

    10 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

    According to official documentation, yes, it's just about matching wealth ($,$$, or $$$), and education (EQ1,EQ2,EQ3, or EQ4), and commute time/distance, between sim resident and job opportunity.

    Based on game experiments, there's other factors of job desirability that impact the length of commute that a sim will tolerate.  @CorinaMarie has done at least one highly structured experiment to prove that office jobs support a longer commute than factory jobs.

    I've done many less structured experiments that indicate a hierarchy of job desirability measured in willingness to commute across a Large city tile (256x256).  Much of the hierarchy is approximate but some are very obvious in the game behaviour if you test it with the Route Query tool:

    1. Airport work is different to other civic jobs, and sims are willing to travel long distances for the privilege and prestige of working at the airport.  *:lol:
    2. Commercial workers travel further than factory workers.
    3. Museum workers and elementary school workers are the least willing to commute far.

    I can extrapolate out a full list of job desirability, based on my analysis of game behaviour, but that full list is less certain, because much of commute behaviour involves finer degrees of difference compared to the above three rules.

    Just try to convince a sim to travel across a 256x256 large city for a factory job or power plant job, without using a neighbour connection!  I've never managed that feat, but convincing them to do the same for an airport job just requires a prosperous city and a good direct highway route.

    I'd be interested to see those experiments, if you have the links available off-hand. I tried searching through Cori's "Best of" list, but didn't see anything, and I had little luck Googling for either thread.

    That said, I did just run a few tests that don't seem to match what you're saying. I started a large city tile and zoned a single, 1x2 residential lot in one corner (which grew a 1x2 R$ home), then wrapped a long, L-shaped street and a set of power lines along the edge of the tile, running to the opposite corner. Following this, I tried plopping a coal plant or an elementary school in this corner to see if Sims would willingly commute to either of these jobs. In both cases, Sims took the jobs, despite the commute.

    I also tried a configuration where I plopped the coal plant or elementary school slightly closer to the Sims, and then plopped a police station further away at the corner of the tile. All buildings were plopped at the same time with the game paused, so that the jobs at these buildings were simultaneously available when I restarted the city. In both cases, Sims took the job with the shorter commute at the coal plant or elementary school, rather than the police station.

    Home.jpg.66bac5a225ca89348d59a9f7b0bd9c7f.jpg

    60f2ebe470d26_PowerPlant.jpg.47c47bd12a8b78697ceba7ddbdd128b3.jpg

    School.jpg.96893e4fe2500910475aa8dfec44b031.jpg

    60f2ed0ab6ebb_PowerPolice.jpg.65401ace43ebfce83353bcd53cccc446.jpg

    60f2ed1da9f46_SchoolPolice.jpg.9d9c540650d015138f2cb2f86fba579e.jpg

    To wrap things up, I ran a test with an elementary school and a municipal airport. This was a little bit trickier, because the construction time for the airport delays the availability of its jobs. To address this, I built a power plant first, so that the Sims took jobs there. I then plopped the elementary school and airport and waited until jobs were available at both buildings and ran the simulator a few months to make sure it had registered the jobs. After that, I demolished the power plant so that the Sims employed there would need to find new jobs. The commuters chose the jobs at the elementary school with the shorter commute time.

    60f2f7899f06d_SchoolAirport.jpg.9d93a5d6724e44f7f40a7a11728149c4.jpg

    Based on this, I don't think there's any inherent desirability in civic jobs at certain types of buildings. It seems more likely that the commute patterns you're seeing are due to the availability, location, and wealth levels of unemployed Sims when you're plopping civic jobs, combined with the number of jobs that the game needs to fill for different types of civic buildings. Airports have much higher job numbers than most other civic buildings, so if unemployed Sims are fairly scarce in your city, it would make sense that the game needs to pull Sims from much farther away to fill all of these positions.

    7 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Steps taken thus far:

    1. @BartonThinks was right to suggest increasing the farm desirability. Farms suffered due to them being built right next to a very busy road. Kind of reasonable - would you like to eat corn that grew next to a traffic jam?

    I, kind of, cheated though. I simply placed some of the overpowered "rye grass" mmps to hack my way to victory. :)

    I got confused by the SPAM readme though! It states that farming near polluted areas should be no problem. Well, it is!

    2. I rezoned some R$ in favor of CS, generating more jobs, while reducing the number of people who seek them. Small suburbian farms alone are not enough to provide jobs to 2200 people. Interestingly, the outpour of workers has been reduced to 1400!

    3. @Naomi57 holy mackerel skies! Avenues carrying electricity! It works! *:thumb: *:thumb:

    I was wondering about the traffic issue, since I know SPAM is supposed to prevent farm dilapidation due to traffic. It might be the case that it increases their tolerance to traffic, but does not make them immune to it. In that case, your traffic may simply have exceeded SPAM levels.

    In any case, I'm glad you found a solution!

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    🚜 Get well soon, Cori! 🚜

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