[2016] Lot Editor and Plug-in Manager - Forum Archive

[andix 33]

Lot Editor and Plug-in Manager Forum Archive 2016

This thread contains all of the stray topics created in 2016 in the Lot Editor and Plug-in Manager forum. This thread serves to condense those topics into one topic before merging into the new SC4 BAT & Lot Workshop forum.

However, all of the posts from the original threads are merged chronologically, which means that if two threads were posted in during the same time span, their posts will be mixed together, making it harder to read. To help with this, the title of original thread has been edited into the original first post of each thread.

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-Jasoncw

Lot editor problem

Hi,

I created my first simple building according to the BAT essentials tutorials and tried to put it on a lot with the Lot Editor.

It's a 1x2 tile building. But I cannot place it correctly on the lot (no matter if it's a 2x3 or 3x3 lot:

When I try to place it at the road in the right window I can move it to the road but in the left window which shows the result it's in the backwards area. And this is indeed the final position after saving and testing it in the game.

When I turn the building around it's in the middle of the street when I move it to the forward part of the lot:

An additional problem is that the Lot Editor creates a lot with nonsensical values for the Zone Types: 0x04, 0x05 and 0x06:

Of course I can change that and then I can plop the building in the game but this values I think should not appear in the first place.

[kingofsimcity 5,740]

I'm not a BATer by any means but from the looks of it, your model might be off-centered in gmax.

It looks like you're trying to create a CO$$ growable. From that information, your LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes are actually correct: they represent different commercial zone types, with 0x04 being low density, 0x05 as medium density, and 0x06 as high density. Having all 3 just means your lot should be able to grow under all 3 densities.

[andix 33]

Thanks very much. Yes, it was off-centered.

Normally I only change values of residential buildings so I thought the density values for residential and commercial are the same. And the really strange thing was that I couldn't plop the building in the first attempt (with "buildingplop"). And when I changed the ZoneType values to the incorrect residential values I could plop it! But now with the new model and lot I can plop it even with the correct ZoneType values.

[Ellorienne 3]

Edit custom lot

Can you use the lot editor to change some details on a custom lot from the STEX? (without uploading it of course, since the original belongs to someone else).

I downloaded several McDonalds lots, and the only one that comes close to working well using the space I would like, generates way too much garbage, even for Maccas. It filled up 8 squares of landfill in one year, and that's while using a mod that improves the decomposition of garbage. Long story short, I would like to open that file up and change that to something that fits better with the gameplay. I've never used the lot editor, but if this is possible will embark on downloading and reading up on tutorials.

 

Thanks.

[Yarahi 1,823]

You can use the lot editor to change/replace textures, prop-models or the building itself. Not much else

To edit the parameters for garbage produced, you can use Ilive's Reader

This is a great tutorial for beginners;

 

[SimCoug 5,976]

7 hours ago, Ellorienne said:

Can you use the lot editor to change some details on a custom lot from the STEX? (without uploading it of course, since the original belongs to someone else).

I downloaded several McDonalds lots, and the only one that comes close to working well using the space I would like, generates way too much garbage, even for Maccas. It filled up 8 squares of landfill in one year, and that's while using a mod that improves the decomposition of garbage. Long story short, I would like to open that file up and change that to something that fits better with the gameplay. I've never used the lot editor, but if this is possible will embark on downloading and reading up on tutorials.

 

Thanks.

If you share a link to the file I can fix the lot really quick (of course, if you want to dig deeper into SC4 modding then I highly encourage you to try it out on your own)

[Ellorienne 3]

Thank you for the offer. I had a look at the tutorial and the beginner guide. I used the building tweaker, and so far it seems to be working well now. I may find some other things I'd like to tweak now, though I think most things I have downloaded had specifications meeting my exact needs.

[Ellorienne 3]

Changing Monthly Costs

What properties would I change to edit the monthly cost for a school? Is only the "Budget Item: Cost?"  I'd like to lower both the monthly cost and the bus coverage, but I keep ending up with a very large cost, or no cost no matter how much I move the slider, or it won't show up in the game. I used the calculator to convert those values for just that one property, and it won't show up in game.

[_Michael 2,681]

Help with HD textures

Hi guys.

I'm in the process of making a custom sidewalk mod for my cities, but have run into a issue.

My old sidewalk (Gobias) had beautiful HD textures. I have a custom texture saved in 128x128 and 512x512 format (BMP) and know how to put the texture into a .dat format, but it appears SC4 Tool will only accept the 128 format. This isn't quite good enough quality when playing, so I'm wondering how I can use the 512, or other resolution HD texture.

Thanks

 

[rsc204 21,866]

Just to follow up on this, Rivit's GoFSH will happily process HD textures, I believe PNG 2 FSH Batch will also handle HD textures too.

[_Michael 2,681]

The issue has now been solved. 

Many thanks Rsc204. 

[rsc204 21,866]

It's important to note, that any lots with sliders will need to be removed from your cities before editing them.

What I usually do is make whatever edits I am looking to change, then open a blank test city (I keep test regions for modding), and check if all is working there. If your changes are fine, close SC4, remove the edited version, you keep backups, right , and replace it with the original. Then you need to remove every plopped instance of the lot, before switching to the new file and plopping the modified version.

I'm sure that's your problem, based on the behaviour you note.

Also, it usually not necessary to work in hex for inputting values. It just helps to decipher the existing ones. If you are using iLives reader, you may find it more user friendly to make edits with something like SC4 Tools or LE Prop, which display values humans can understand. Usually though in Reader, you can enter a decimal value, it then will convert it to hex as required.

[Ellorienne 3]

So do you mean all civic lots with sliders? Not just the ones I am editing? That could likely be the trouble. I made certain there were no lots in the region of the type I was editing, but not others. It got so bad I had to redo my entire plugins folder (Hovering over the broken lot in the menu froze the whole game, and many wouldn't show up correctly). Some rural downloads I was using messed it up really badly (and my edits of them). I do indeed keep backups (and now have a mess-free backup of my plugins, too).

[rsc204 21,866]

Sorry if I was unclear - it only affects any specific lots you'd edited. You see SC4 doesn't rely on the lot or a prop always to determine the values of something in-game. A lot of this information becomes part of the save file for a city and is then read from there. The settings in such cases will always be those that existed when the item was placed.

So for example:

• If you change a texture on a lot, that is read from the lot, any changes will automatically appear, without replopping.
• But if you change one prop for another, the game requires you to re-plop the lot before you will see the new prop.

Generally speaking though, it's best to remove content if you are editing it, because that can cause issues. A good rule of thumb, if the error that plugins are missing appears when you open a city, don't save the city. Exit, replace the original unmodified file (or removed content). The either replace the old file or remove anything you no longer want before saving the tile. In short, failing to do so can cause corruption of your save file, although this is a worse-case scenario.

I don't want to give the impression that modding is somehow fraught with danger. Nothing is static in my game, many other players also change things a lot to suit their preferences. But it's better to edit the content before placing it full time into your plugins if you can. It's also good practise to have a special region reserved for testing new content or modified content.

The bug you're encountering is because the game knows the original settings, but when you go to move the sliders, it's seeing a different set of values. The code doesn't understand what's going on and the sliders/coverage become broken. Often, deleting these lots will cause a CTD, hence you have to replace the originals before they can be removed.

If after following these instructions, you find your lots still aren't working in the way you wanted. I'd be happy to take a look at them and see if we can figure out the problem :).

[Ellorienne 3]

The only thing I can think of that may have been giving it problems, then, is that I had previously destroyed the city with God mode. Perhaps the game still remembered details from before the apocalypse. I'm not too worried about danger from modding I've modded a few of the games I play. If I don't find what I'm looking for I'll often make it myself, and look carefully at the work others have done if I'm stuck. I'll give it another go in a completely new region, with a completely fresh lot made myself instead of editing the ones I downloaded.

Thanks again for all the help!

[Clontron 1]

How to change lot types of buildings?

Hello all,

 

I've been play sc4 for yonks but only have just downloaded the plugin manager, lot editor, and BAT. Despite lots of forum searches I don't know how to do a simple thing. What i want to do is change some custom buildings or default maxis buildings into schools. So i know i do this in plugin manager, but it only shows a limited amount of buildings under that models section. I can't seem to find anything i want.

 

Sorry for the newbie question.

[rsc204 21,866]

The Maxis tools are pretty inadequate for making a lot of these jobs simple. It can be done, but requires a certain level of understanding of how things work.

Personally, I'd recommend you download PIM-X, an advanced third-party tool that contains a new Plugin Manager and Lot Editor. This single application makes it vastly easier to create new content. Rather than get bogged down with the Maxis tools and re-learning everything, starting here should make the process much simpler.

In essence you just need to point whichever you are using towards the model you want to make into a school. Then you drag that into the category "school" for the specific type you want to make. Then it's just a case of adjusting any settings as desired and building your new lot.

[adambailey39 86]

How do I make a 1x1 lot that is bigger then 1 tile?

I've downloaded lots that only took 1 tile to plop but were much bigger then that. Like the newer statue of liberty on the stex. I was wondering how to do this?

[Ro-Bo 183]

The actual building that contains all the stats is small (footprint less than 1 tile), maybe invisible.

The structure that is visible is set as a prop. Since it is bigger than the LOD of the 'building', all you can see is the prop.

[VeeTHis 71]

Lot Editor not showing my custom building

So, I have BAT, Gmax, SC4 Lot Editor, and the Plugin Manager. So I go into the Plugin Manager, set everything up for the SC4DESC file. I already exported the building model in Gmax, but when I go to the Lot Edtitor, I load up a lot that is big enough for my building, replace the building, but I can't find my building ANYWHERE. I could not find the name I called it in the Plugin Manager. Can someone please help me? This problem makes no sense. Did something go wrong during exporting the model in Gmax? Did something go wrong with the Lot Editor or Plugin Manager? I honestly don't know. Please help me!

[rsc204 21,866]

Did the Plugin Manager correctly create a new .SC4Desc File? That's the buildings exemplar, which allows the Lot Editor to load the SC4Model created with SC4BAT. If the SC4Desc file exists but is not showing, perhaps try removing it and making a new one from scratch to see if that fixes the issue.

Otherwise the quickest solution (assuming your model is not really large) is to attach the Model and DESC files in a .zip, that way I can see the problem more easily.

 

[nos.17 5,255]

36 minutes ago, VeeTHis said:

I load up a lot that is big enough for my building, replace the building, but I can't find my building ANYWHERE

One other thing you might want to check is the type of lot you are opening to edit. If the building is not the same type as the lot you open, it will not show up in the menu. Assuming you created the .sc4desc to be a Landmark, so you should open a landmark lot to edit also.

[VeeTHis 71]

2 hours ago, nos.17 said:

One other thing you might want to check is the type of lot you are opening to edit. If the building is not the same type as the lot you open, it will not show up in the menu. Assuming you created the .sc4desc to be a Landmark, so you should open a landmark lot to edit also.

Thanks, I loaded a lot with a landmark on it and made sure it was big enough, and it worked. Thanks for the help!

[Dreadnought 8,231]

Making Lot Changes With Reader -- ??

Yo, guys --

I know this is probably some pretty basic stuff -- but it's beyond my knowledge and skill set at the moment.

I've got an old lot file I found in my "re-make" folder.  The lot is one of Paeng's I found on his old site.  The lot works fine as it is -- but it doesn't exactly suit my current needs.  Visually -- it's perfect.  But the original function of the lot is what I need to change.

I've got an old machine -- so I work with "Reader" rather than PMIX.

The only file I've got for this one is the LOT file. (No descriptor or model files.)

(1)  I want to convert it from a dirty industry lot to a manufacturing lot.

(2)  It's a good sized-lot -- so I would like to increase the job count.

(3)  I need to make sure the query function works properly after the changes.

(4)  I need to make sure it actually interacts with the RCI demand graph.

My problem -- is that I don't know WHICH exemplars to change -- nor do I know what codes to substitute. 

And I have to work with the old-fashioned READER.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanx --

P.S. ---

(1)  What does the "Resource Key Type 1" do ?

(2)  What dies the "Exemplar Category" do ?

(3)  What is a "Plugin Pack ID" ?

(4) What does "Building Value" do ?

(5) What is a "Lot Resource Key" ?

(6)  Just out of curiosity -- how does a building "generate and income" ?

[Edvarz 1,985]

I'm by no means a savant, but I can help with a few of your questions.

(1-4) To change a I-D building to I-M, and increase the job count you have to mod the building exemplar, this is normally contained in the .SC4Desc file but it can be embedded in the .SC4Lot file, so open your SC4Lot file with Reader and check if you have a building exemplar in it. You can differentiate a building and a lot exemplar by their properties, the most obious one is "ExemplarType". The job count is fairly easy to modify, it is determined by the value of the "Capacity Satisfied" property.

Now, to change from I-D to I-M you need to modd a bunch of properties both on the building and on the lot exemplars, I wouldn't really know how to do this properly, sorry.

As for the other questions:

(1) RKT (Resource Key Type) is the way in which your exemplar references a model; automatas, flora, props and buildings can reference models in several ways, this page explains the differences between RKT0 and RKT 1 and if you're curious about the RKT4 property this post clarified it for me.

(4, 6) Actually, the "Building Value" is the property that determines a building's tax income, it is important for a balanced game to modd this properly and it's not a bad idea to check this stat, along with water and power consumption, and pollution values when you install a new building.

Hope this helps!

[Dreadnought 8,231]

Yo, Edvarz --

First -- THANK YOU for answering.

Second -- THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH for answering so quickly.  It is nice to know there are people still willing to deal with the more difficult questions.  I've only been working on making lots and doing re-lots for a little over a year, and there is so much yet to learn (there's ALWAYS so much yet to learn).

By careful comparison of known manufacturing lots to the Paeng lot, I've been able to pinpoint most of the exemplars that need to be changed.  I've even learned the classification for manufacturing -- "4300".  I also discovered an exemplar property that Paeng did not include.  When I added the property -- the query function worked properly, and the job count on the lot actually subtracted from the RCI graph.

So -- for all intents and purposes -- I now have a fully functional manufacturing lot.

BUT -- (there's always a "but", isn't there?)

I'm still having problems with raising the job count.  The query function still shows the lot's original job count of 1,245.  I have examined the "Capacity Satisfied" property and find that it is written in what I assume to be "decimal code" (??) -- probably from the PMIX tool.

First line -- "0x00004300" -- designates the jobs as manufacturing.

Second line -- "0x000004DD" -- is anybody's guess !!

I understand that is the line I need to alter.  But I have no idea what the code means.

I have tried changing the job count by using a "blank" model file to create a new descriptor file -- but it doesn't seem to work.  (I really can't be sure.)

REMAINING QUESTIONS:

(1)  How -- exactly -- to alter the jobs count with "Reader" ?

(2)  A "thumbnail" explanation of how lots create income for the game.  I presume the "mayor's" income for the city is derived from taxes -- but what exemplar qualities is that based upon -- and how would you change that ??

Is there a tutorial somewhere that explains this theory ?  I'm sure someone has asked this question before -- but this is a very large forum. 

PLEASE -- do not apologize for not being a "savant".  NONE of the people on this forum started out as a savant.  The best and most knowledgeable among us started out somewhere from scratch -- WITH A WILLING AND HELPFUL TEACHER.  Even the Maxis designers had to be taught how to do this stuff!  The key to learning is having a "mentor". 

If one takes the long view -- it's also the key to keeping this community alive and kicking.

You may not be a "savant" -- but your comments confirmed my "hunch" and kept me pointed in the right direction.

THANK YOU, again !!

[rsc204 21,866]

42 minutes ago, Dreadnought said:

0x000004DD

That's just a Hexadecimal value, converted to Decimal it works out as 1,245.

That'll be the number of jobs created. Double click the value and you can freely enter a new one. Whilst Reader only shows Hexadecimal, you can input decimal values and it will automatically convert it to Hex for you.

Edit:

There are a number of other values you may need to edit in Reader. Honestly without knowing the exact lot you are editing, it's really hard to say exactly which properties need amending. Already I sense a huge can of worms rumbling.

As such, I wouldn't recommend using Reader to edit lots, it's the quickest way to do things, but only if you are very comfortable with modding. Much better to download/install SC4Tools. That way you can stop mucking about with Hex and use a friendly editor that has includes descriptions of everything.

[Dreadnought 8,231]

Yo, rsc204 -- !!!

THANK YOU -- EVER SO MUCH !!!

That will solve the basic jobs problem -- which will allow me to get the lot done and plopped on the map.

Now I'm going to go back to searching the forum to see if I can figure out where the "income" comes from !!

Thank you, again, my friend!! 

[rsc204 21,866]

I'm not sure income works as you may think, interesting question, since I've honestly never thought about it before.

I can't find any properties, sans the value of the building, that would have some sort of monetary use. Since it's a simulator, taxing businesses would require knowing their revenue, but no such system exists for this. I think logically, all taxes are probably worked out based on the number of workers you have and their wealth. 

[vortext 573]

yeah, buildings don't generate income. Rather all taxes are based on Building Value, with stuff like occupancy and dilapidation factored into the equation.  So I guess that answers your question what Building Value does, it's a rather critical component to the game. Building Value itself depends on RCI type & wealth of the building exemplar at hand, and of course the occupant size of the actual model.

As for Exemplar Category and Plugin ID Pack, these are debugging properties and don't serve any real purpose. Lot Resource Key on the other hand is crucial for ploppables, since it references the lot Instance. Without this property most - if not all - ploppables do not work properly.