warning Microsoft continues 'bullish' Windows 10 upgrade tactics

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

So the aggressive Windows 10 upgrade tricks continue...

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3073457/windows/how-microsofts-nasty-new-windows-10-pop-up-tricks-you-into-upgrading.html

(There's also a BBC report).

Be careful guys. Microsoft has now made it so closing the upgrade popup (using the X) now gives consent to the upgrade. Seriously, what kind of legit program accepts an action when you attempt to close it?! It's just like malware.

Let's not forget this is the entire operating system, not just a standalone app being upgraded. Even for the average home user, it requires at least some basic thought and preparation (i.e. backups). They're trying to make the upgrade too simple, and Win 10 sound essential.

Don't be afraid to proceed -- Windows 10 may well have some benefits. But people have reasons for choosing to postpone it or not upgrade altogether. Whether due to compatibility (such as legacy software like SC4) or just being familiar with their current setup. You keep hearing in the news of users with broken systems after upgrading. Just type in Google "computer broken a", and see what pops up. Such issues can be resolved, although not everyone is prepared or has the time to resolve them.

Tricking people like this is not acceptable. It's causing inconvenience, hassle, and at worst rendering their machine unusable.

For a couple of years now, personally I check each update individually, making sure such junk isn't installed in the first place. There's limited official info about each Windows update, but you can usually find out by waiting a week or so after release, then searching the KB number. However, for users with automatic update settings (the recommended), it's opening the door for this kind of thing to happen.

Has anyone here been affected by this?

Update:

It would seem Microsoft has responded to the outcry from users:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36376962

This is an improvement, but really it's still far from ideal.

  Edited May 25, 2016 by Cyclone Boom  

[Terring 6,476]

I have blocked the updates altogether, so I've not been affected. Fortunately, though, it's possible to reschedule and even cancel the update. I have not test it, so I don't know if it works.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

That is just reprehensible.  The only function the 'X' on a window is supposed to do is close the window, sometimes with some clean up if is also closes the application.

It is completely correct to describe this little trick as malware.  Any software dropped on a machine that is unwanted is malware, so that makes all of Windows 10 a piece of malware that should be blocked by all anti-virus scanners.

It is rather cynical of Microsoft to do this after so diluting user knowledge over the years that they think they can get away with this.

The author of the article thinks that going to Apple is a step into the dark side, but it is only into the neutral zone.  For Microsoft (and Apple) the dark side is spelled L-I-N-U-X.  Most Linux distributions are free and fall under the GNU free licence unless you are a corporation.  I am speaking to you now from the very ultimate expression of the dark side, UBUNTU. 

So, grasshoppers, to get totally free of software license fees (well, almost) you can use this link.  Should one choose to download this operating system you will be asked for an optional donation.  Only a few entries in the software dispensary ask for a fee.  Mind you, this is a big leap.  To run your favourite Windows applications you will need to add the latest wine beta (wine-1.9.10 (Staging)) to your system after you get it loaded.  You can, however, test the base system on your machine totally without risk at the cost of one long download and a DVD.

[rsc204 21,866]

Firstly MS's behaviour is reprehensible in regards to forcing such an upgrade down peoples throats. Having the power to decide what to install and monitor on your PC would, you'd think, would necessitate trust in the provider of the service? If such actions don't prove that MS can't be trusted, well then I'd be wasting my breath going further.

Switching to Linux is simply not a solution for the masses. You see, most computer users are not like me, they don't want to know anything about them or how they work. Much like any other appliance, such as a TV or washing machine, they just want to be able to use it as a tool. Now switching from Windows to Linux is just a matter of a changing interface, something I'm sure you'd get used too. The real issue is when things (inevitably) go wrong, what then?

With Linux, the biggest issue I see, is users can't get issues that come up resolved. I don't mean they can't fix it, I'm not talking about people who could competently fix problems with a Windows machine either. But who exactly can you go to for reasonably priced support for a Linux machine, when you need someone to do it for you? Seriously, leave Linux alone unless you are an enthusiast, you'll regret the day you installed it otherwise.

So what to do about Windows? Tricky, since after 2020 support for Windows 7 will end, so there are no more security updates. Eventually some change will be inevitable. Personally, I'd rather wait it out a few years, hopefully by then the options will improve. That said, a quick look at the adoption rate of Android, iOS and apps should tell me that 99% of people reading this couldn't give a toss about privacy.

[Alejandro24 575]

I'm not also affraid of the forced upgrade from Win7,8 to Win10; but also the updates inside it. I've read and know a lot of cases where after some Win10 update something went wrong, specially the Wi-Fi and video drivers. The computer of my brother got broken because this, wi-fi stopped to work and then the whole computer ceased to work, without considering since the Win10 upgrade the whole thing was going bad.

The forced update is being irrational, not all computers since Win7 are prepared for that. If Microsoft wanted to upgrade the system, why not to follow the strategy of Google with Android: here is the system for all the manufacturers, check for what devices are compatible with this and send the OTA upgrade.

Also, I don't like Win10. Is like Win7, but with a lot steroids. It is so overloaded (two control panels, why?), overwhelming, the integration is so forced...

also, why the SimCity folder that is usually in Documents folder is now installed in OneDrive folder? Why??????????????

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Microsoft backs down.

The uproar has caused MS to back this off, but I guarantee they will find a way to do this again.

As far as going to Linux (UBUNTU), not exactly for the home appliance users, but if all they want is e-mail, the Internet and a few games (Windows or not), Ubuntu will work for them.  Imagine my surprise when I got my new machine with Ubuntu 16.04 and an upgrade to wine and I found that Windows programs run at full speed now.  Banished runs flat out using four cores, and SC4D trots along quite nicely on a single core.  I've yet to find anything I can't run at full blast.

Software developers on the other hand will find a vast array of free tools to create both native node and cross-platform programs including examples of how to use the make system to selectively compile/install for whatever machines the developer chooses.  A little learning curve beats the daylights out of Microsoft's exorbitant fees for Visual Studio and is generally free of software lock-ins.

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

Well, good to hear they've responded in some way. But like the new report says, what it really needs is a clear, no-nonsense option to opt out.

Of course, in an ideal world, Microsoft wants everyone to upgrade. Windows 10 is their main focus going forward. This campaign has been going on long enough, and that isn't going to change. As the EOL date for older versions draws nearer, it wouldn't be any surprise to see this persistence being ramped up, or similar nagware being added.

The interesting thing is, it didn't require this type of approach following Windows 7. The transition from XP to 7 came more naturally, and was at a time during XP's decline, and when Vista didn't take over.

By using these heavy-handed tactics, amongst the privacy concerns, it could well scare people into looking elsewhere. Maybe in future we'll see an alternative like Linux take centre stage. Even with a learning curve, it's always good to have more control over your system. Not everyone wants the software making these decisions for them.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

The basic hold up with Linux is that people who are immersed in Windows technology can't see past their eyelashes.  Ubuntu looks pretty much like XP to the ordinary user except that the launcher is on the left side and it has this neat search mechanism (the dash) for finding stuff rather than an extensive menu system.  If you let it, the dash will look on the Internet for things.

The basic technology of Windows hasn't changed much since Windows NT (remember that one).  If you look at a dump these days, Windows is still identifying itself as NT x.y because the basic kernel hasn't really changed.  It has just been tweaked into some kind of SNAFU.  Windows has been full of Fifi Lalas for a long time, and I don't think they'll ever get rid of them as long as they stick to that old Kernel model.

___________________________________________________________________________

For those of more recent generations, a Fifi Lala is a female Gremlin.  The female of the species is far deadlier than the male.  KILROY was here.

[NCGAIO 562]

Unfortunately the vast majority of users have no idea what the critics say, much less interested in knowing the source of problems just run behind a tip to solve your situation.

Situations like this demonstrate the ridiculous abuse of push update anyway

source - Windows 10 is now ruining weather forecasts

And the indignation of many, portrayed without mincing words

Quote

• "Windows? It's PC gone mad."

source - https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/may/25/dispatches-from-the-windows-10-frontline

 

but while this has little relevance in general ...

Quote

 "A couple of days ago, Microsoft re-released update KB3035583 for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1"

source - http://http: //windowsreport.com/kb3035583-get-windows-10-update/
 

... this one is really more than an abuse

Quote

" Windows patch KB 3139929: When the security update is not a security update"

source - http://www.infoworld.com/article/3042155/microsoft-windows/windows-patch-kb-3139929-when-a-security-update-is-not-a-security-update.html

 

Now... just to remind you of old thread on telemetry ... 

here Link to interesting analize. - - -   Even when told not to Windows 10 just cant stop talking to microsoft

UPDATES telemetry Windows 7;8.1 -  kb3068708 - kb3022345 - kb3075249 - kb3080149

 

Without entering into the merit of being true or not Keyloger, wire-less sharing; transfer data ram ; etc .. if you do not agree try

- Tip disable telemetry and data collection on windows 7 and 8

- Remove telemetry updates for Windows 7 and 8.1

Regarding telemetry that some believe to be acceptable to have a better adaptation of the system to use and more security is a thought

"Think...  if you do not care about losing some privacy in exchange for security maybe is no different than saying that does not care about the very freedom of expression talves because it does not even have anything to say "
  

Save the big brother eyes

[Sabretooth78 808]

One of the benefits of running Win 7 in a VM as I do is that if you (or someone else) screws it up, rolling back is literally as simple as duplicating a backed-up file and "starting over" again.  Thing is, as I've gotten back into flight simming, I'm actually kicking around the idea of having a custom box put together and then using the Win 7 license on that.  Once it's "the" resident OS it becomes a little trickier.

The office is also pushing the upgrade and sent an email a few weeks ago offering the option up to early adopters.  No thanks, I'm just going to wait for the main push.  Work is one thing, I guess, but for what I use it for at home it's unnecessary and in all likelihood detrimental.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Ah yes, Microsoft's corporate penetration.  The last college I worked in was Microsoft wall to wall except for one computer lab that ran AIX.  Anybody have a feel for what MS is offering as server software parallel to Windows 10?

[BLANKBLANK 4,414]

Thankfully the BBC posted an article on this so that when that pop-up screen did appear, yesterday, I just went to the Task Manager and shut down the actual program running- GWX. Didn't upgrade or update.

[BC Canuck 207]

Thanks to Cyclone Boom for the MS 10 update news.  Just installed the GWX Control Panel which eliminates the nagging window plus the automatic upgrade....jeez what were they thinking    As if no one wanted to control what happened to their PC and what they put on it.  Totally reprehensible and sneaky.  I really dislike MS/Windows 10- prowling around my computer and keeping tabs on what I'm looking at on the web.  (I'm rather dull - travel, Home Improvement , Shopping but it's none of their darn business).

Thanks again for the heads up!!

 

[NMUSpidey 3,956]

I haven't allowed my Windows 7 to automatically update online in years.  I found that leaving the option on severely taxed my CPU and made this little machine run SOOOOOOOOOOOO SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.  So I turned it off, and now it sounds like a good gosh-darned thing I did.  What am I going to do once this thing dies and I'm forced to buy a Win10 machine I absolutely do not want?  I mean, I haven't even downloaded any games from Steam because I don't want their stupid client running in the background to play games I bought fair and square.

[Whte_rbt 1,431]

Spidey, you do what I'm doing. New machine's getting an Ubuntu main with dual boot option of network-neutered Win 7 for certain games.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Or you could take a walk on the lighter side of the dark and go Apple.

[Mister Giggles 310]

Bullish is not the word I'd use. I'm sure bullish wasn't the word you wanted to use. But well, civil language and all.

[QuantumChicken 89]

Micro$courage is the most bullish company on the face of the earth now, beating Monsanto... I will stick with my windows 98se, xp, and 7 thanks. Oh yea, and Debian and Ubuntu for the win.

[Tarkus 6,933]

16 hours ago, A Nonny Moose said:

Ah yes, Microsoft's corporate penetration.  The last college I worked in was Microsoft wall to wall except for one computer lab that ran AIX.  Anybody have a feel for what MS is offering as server software parallel to Windows 10?

Curiously, my experience has been that most colleges/universities tend to be PC across the board, except the music departments, which are pretty much Mac-only (source: was music major and am now an adjunct music prof).  I did actually do something I never thought I'd do and bought a Mac Mini last month, though my reasons for it have more to do with getting into iOS app development (and my remaining reservations about getting a Mac were mostly because of my disdain for Intel and fondness for AMD).

On my PCs, I'm still on stock Windows 8 (not 8.1), which, while a bit awkward with the interface, is actually a pretty quick OS.  I blocked Windows Update after a Windows 7 update killed my previous laptop, and my current Win8 desktop and laptop also experienced severe issues with updates.  It's saved me from the whole SafeDisc-killing update, and all this Windows 10 nonsense.

Microsoft has really crossed a line with this.  I've played around a little with Ubuntu and really liked it, but sadly, a lot of the commercial software developers don't seem to be keen on supporting it, and one of the main programs I use for my livelihood (Sibelius 6) doesn't get along with WINE.  If Ubuntu (or some other Linux distro) could do what I needed it to do, I'd switch in a heartbeat.

-Tarkus

[Sabretooth78 808]

I do feel a little sorry for you MacMini adopters, however.  The line peaked in 2012 (along with the entire lineup IMHO); the offerings since have been neutered greatly - it has since pretty much become the poster child for Apple's relative neglect of the Mac lineup and seeming abandonment of trying to lure converters (the Mini was perhaps the easiest bridge).  They seem to know it, too; compare their marketing now vs. during Microsoft's previous PR disaster, Vista - which is incidentally when I switched, though it had nothing to do with Vista (I was blissfully ignorant and otherwise happy with XP and would continue to be another 7 years on).  Not a peep now, however.  Now it's all becoming un-upgradeable, tamper-proof, soldered in RAM, permanently stuck in ordered state disposable junk coupled with an ugly OS that has greatly fallen behind its own curve (granted El Cap is much better than Yucksemite).  Probably trying to figure out how to differentiate their crippled iPhone on a band.  Or find their rudder, who is unfortunately 6 feet under.  I now see them as just a Bismarck sailing around in big circles but with no Royal Navy to deliver the coup-de-grace.

When all the dust settles, Linux will be the winner.  M$ will maintain a hold on the zombies for the forseeable future, but those who get things done will slowly abandon it.  When the tipping point will occur is beyond my ability to predict.

5 hours ago, Mister Giggles said:

Bullish is not the word I'd use. I'm sure bullish wasn't the word you wanted to use. But well, civil language and all.

Bullish contains all but one letter of the most apt descriptor.  Quite clever if that was the intent, actually.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

@Tarkus:Have you looked at Muse Score?  I don't have a handle on your other package, but this one suits my purpose for occasional composition.  It does have a Midi interface.

[TekindusT 3,809]

9 hours ago, Tarkus said:

Curiously, my experience has been that most colleges/universities tend to be PC across the board, except the music departments, which are pretty much Mac-only (source: was music major and am now an adjunct music prof).  I did actually do something I never thought I'd do and bought a Mac Mini last month, though my reasons for it have more to do with getting into iOS app development (and my remaining reservations about getting a Mac were mostly because of my disdain for Intel and fondness for AMD).

 

On 26/5/2016 at 4:37 PM, A Nonny Moose said:

Ah yes, Microsoft's corporate penetration.  The last college I worked in was Microsoft wall to wall except for one computer lab that ran AIX.  Anybody have a feel for what MS is offering as server software parallel to Windows 10?

That's the general approach pretty much everywhere dedicated to do serious research.

Windows is and will be everywhere where a very specific program, that does a very specific task, for a very specific branch of science and engineering is needed. Let's say you're a developer for this kind of very specialised software: you have a potential market of, say, 1000 institutions around the world. If 900 of them are already running Windows systems, because your competitors developed on the previous years their software to be only compatible with Windows systems... For what OS should your software be compatible with? The answer to the question is obvious.

There is also a question open for interoperability and interchangeability. Using different file formats puts already a strain when interchanging data with project partners or other institutions, let alone using entirely different OSs. Our job is to get the things done, not to go fiddling with software to create a partition on which we can work to install the incompatible programs, or debuggging, so they can be compatible with our project partners/customers...

In this world, Mac and Ubuntu are out of the question, just because they wouldn't be capable of running the programs we need to do our daily job. I envy my friends who work in accounting or marketing and can work on feather-weight Macbooks, meanwhile I have to drag my armored Dell Precision here and there just because we need it to run Windows and to be fast.

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

12 hours ago, Mister Giggles said:

Bullish is not the word I'd use. I'm sure bullish wasn't the word you wanted to use. But well, civil language and all.

Why not? Personally, I think it's quite an accurate way to describe their actions. Microsoft are confident and remaining aggressive with enforcing Windows 10, trying to fast-track it to success. This is the nature of being bullish in this context. However, there are other words which come to mind.

Sure, promotion is important for any new product, but there are different ways to go about it. The fact that MS has the dominant share of operating systems, it makes promotion a whole lot easier. Tactics like the popups are cheap and effective methods of doing so. It's easy to promote and (too) easy for consumers to be trapped into using the new product.

Also it being offered as a free upgrade doesn't help matters. Most would be used to paying for a new system, not it being offered on a silver platter. To some degree, this disguises the extent that Win 10 is not a simple service pack type update. What if people don’t like it or want to rollback after the 30 day grace period? Because Microsoft are accelerating the process is the reason why these tactics can be described as ‘bullish’.

What they’re doing is very questionable from an ethical standpoint. Really, it should require explicit consent for even upgrade data to download, let alone install the new OS. A simple popup would suffice, providing options such as:

Windows 10 Upgrade

The latest version of Windows is available for you to download and install as a limited-time free upgrade.
This is a major operating system update, and contains new features and improvements such as (etc...)

Please select an option below:

No thanks
I'm not interested in Windows 10 right now, and wouldn't like to receive any more of these notifications ever again.

Yes please
I'd like to upgrade as soon as possible!
This will allow you to pick a time to schedule the upgrade, and help you take necessary steps to prepare your system (i.e. Backups & compatibility checks).

Remind me later
I'm not willing to upgrade yet, but maybe at a later date. Please give me a reminder again in future (select when).

Now wouldn't that be a whole lot better? The default choice is not to upgrade, and doing so would prevent any further popups. Maybe there could be control panel option should you wish to re-enable).

The thing is, people will upgrade in due course when the time is right (at own discretion), or when finished with their old PCs. It will soon be the only Windows edition to come preinstalled, so of course, unless switching to Mac or Linux, new users are almost certain to go down that route. It's all part of the product lifecycle.

By the way, it seems this latest uproar has now spread to China:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36397835

[Tarkus 6,933]

6 hours ago, A Nonny Moose said:

@Tarkus:Have you looked at Muse Score?  I don't have a handle on your other package, but this one suits my purpose for occasional composition.  It does have a Midi interface.

 

Yes, I have MuseScore as well, as well as a couple ancient (10+-year-old) versions of Finale.  I usually recommend MuseScore to my theory and composition students who are looking for notation software, but aren't quite ready to splurge on Sibelius or Finale.  Can't beat the price, and it's way more full-featured than the stripped-down free version of Finale (Notepad).  For my purposes, though, Sibelius 6 has been such an integral part of my workflow.  I am looking to switch over to Steinberg's new program, Dorico, once it comes out at the end of the year, however.  It's designed by the originally Sibelius development team, who Avid (Sibelius' parent company) inexplicably and stupidly decided to lay off about 4 years ago.  Will be curious to see how well that one will be handled by Linux and WINE.

Reading the further aftermath of this Windows 10 update flap, and some of the damage it's caused, I have to wonder if Microsoft may have opened themselves up to a ton of potential litigation.

-Tarkus

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Dorico looks interesting.  If they have a native mode for OS/X it isn't much of a step to get a native mode for the Linux platform and even for some Smart Phones.

Might be worth raising a music software thread, eh?

[QuantumChicken 89]

I plan to stick with Windows 7 even after it is dead because I despise windows 8.x and 10 with a passion. Micro$courage can shove their life cycle policy up the lips they never kiss with.

[rivit 3,402]

of course (Android)Google, Facebook and Apple, phone producers, banks, insurers, pharmaceuticals, medicos and governments never do the sort of things that get up one's nose.

the world is "adapt or die" and MS is late to the current party...

[metarvo 711]

On 5/25/2016 at 7:54 AM, A Nonny Moose said:

That is just reprehensible.  The only function the 'X' on a window is supposed to do is close the window, sometimes with some clean up if is also closes the application.

It is completely correct to describe this little trick as malware.  Any software dropped on a machine that is unwanted is malware, so that makes all of Windows 10 a piece of malware that should be blocked by all anti-virus scanners.

^This.

On 5/25/2016 at 10:49 AM, rsc204 said:

Firstly MS's behaviour is reprehensible in regards to forcing such an upgrade down peoples throats. Having the power to decide what to install and monitor on your PC would, you'd think, would necessitate trust in the provider of the service? If such actions don't prove that MS can't be trusted, well then I'd be wasting my breath going further.

^This!

On 5/26/2016 at 6:29 PM, BC Canuck said:

As if no one wanted to control what happened to their PC and what they put on it.  Totally reprehensible and sneaky.  I really dislike MS/Windows 10- prowling around my computer and keeping tabs on what I'm looking at on the web.

^Precisely this!

On 5/27/2016 at 1:24 AM, KillrChicken said:

Micro$courage is the most bullish company on the face of the earth now, beating Monsanto... I will stick with my windows 98se, xp, and 7 thanks. Oh yea, and Debian and Ubuntu for the win.

^Definitely this!

On 5/27/2016 at 2:30 AM, Tarkus said:

Microsoft has really crossed a line with this.

^Absolutely this!

17 hours ago, Tarkus said:

Reading the further aftermath of this Windows 10 update flap, and some of the damage it's caused, I have to wonder if Microsoft may have opened themselves up to a ton of potential litigation.

^Undoubtedly this!

11 hours ago, rivit said:

of course (Android)Google, Facebook and Apple, phone producers, banks, insurers, pharmaceuticals, medicos and governments never do the sort of things that get up one's nose.

Yeah, right.

That.  Does.  It.  I'm turning off my updates today yesterday... hey, they're already off.  Good!  This confirms my worst fears about Microsoft.  I like my SC4 CD more than I like having the latest version of Windows, and I understand that W10 is a train wreck anyway.  I've heard the stories of users getting "drafted" to use W10 and their PCs performing horribly after the upgrade because they weren't meant to run the new edition.  W7 PCs are meant to run W7!  Even for those who don't play PC games on CD, who in their right mind (here's looking at you, Microsoft) would expect a W7 machine to run W10 smoothly, unless it's been upgraded?  Come on!  What's wrong with you, Monstersoft?

  Edited May 28, 2016 by metarvo  
Clarification

[Terring 6,476]

On 27/5/2016 at 2:40 AM, NMUSpidey said:

I found that leaving the option on severely taxed my CPU and made this little machine run SOOOOOOOOOOOO SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.  So I turned it off, and now it sounds like a good gosh-darned thing I did.

So I'm not the only one who had to deal with this problem because of the updating system. And I'm glad I'm not the only one who had to turn the updates off.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

It has been more than 10 years since I've run Windows (XP) and I seem to recall that at that time you were only notified about updates and fixes.  If there was an automatic update available, I most certainly turned it off, as I have now with Ubuntu.  I could get "critical updates" installed automatically, but I don't trust anyone.  The way to hell is paved by good intentions.