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@CorinaMarie This stage 8 building has a capacity of 7,080 R$$. That should be just out of reach and impossible to grow if your theory is correct. 7,080 is certainly over 6000. You'll see no such complaints by reading the STEX comments, in fact, just the opposite, 5 months before CAM went public and well before my Turbo Mod. So in a time when vanilla was the only real option, in this sense. When you already have a stage 7 in place, then the stage 8 that it will upgrade to can be up to 6000 capacity larger, not 6000 total.

Vanilla can come in different flavors as well. But any tool used to create a building desc for a model follows a certain formula to determine a building's appropriate stats. This is determined by the size of the model. When we're discussing skyscrapers, then by nature we're discussing larger models. Not even Maxis tools have a hard limit on building capacities. So bigger building = more capacity.

That's a much more complex discussion, but the simple truth is:

Sorry. I know it's a bit much. There are far too many inaccuracies and misconceptions about CAM being circulated by people. But as I said, you can generally change any Residential or Commercial lots at stage 9 or higher to stage 8, and any Industrials at or over stage 4 to stage 3 and be just fine. There's rarely any need to recalculate a building's overall stats.

The pathfinder is capable of far more computations per cycle than you give it credit for. CAM 1.0 would have never been possible if that weren't the case, as it allows 4x the possible growth rate per cycle. CAM 2.0 and my Turbo Mod allow more than 8x vanilla growth rates, and I am testing mods with even double that. The traffic simulator hasn't missed a beat with any of these. I think the issue is probably street capacity, which is why an additional network (tram) was necessary.

I should probably clear some things up with this. There should be no issue with CAM and any lot overrides. The only thing you'd need to pay attention to is making sure that all of your installed content is modded with the same balance. The same is true for anyone using the Industry Doubler or similar lot replacement mods. These things just don't function properly when mixed with custom content that isn't specifically modded for it as well. Such drastic changes in gameplay require dedication. It is true that CAM and SPAM do conflict. CAM has more possible growth stages for farms as well as all RCI types and just has more balanced mechanics. SPAM has a number of other issues that make using CAM 2.0 Rural a much better option. I really like some of the mods in the RCI Multi pack. There are no true CAMpatibility issues with either the no caps or homejobs mods, though I would not recommend the homejobs mod to anyone that enjoys the game's simulators, It pretty much defeats the purpose of NAM completely. I suppose if you're looking for an even more sandbox version of the game, homejobs would do it though. What this mod does is turns the capacity of residential buildings into civic jobs as well. So it really doesn't matter who could be working in IHT, because instead of that, they're working in their neighbor's garage. The rebalanced jobs mod seems redundant when used with homejobs. But even on its own, it ignores balancing the actual Census/Workforce Drives that would make R$s even care about working in IHT. I should mention that the R$$$/IHT fix also ignores the Census/Workforce Drives, but it is a much smaller change than this rebalanced jobs mod. These Drives are balanced in CAM 2.0. I also play with no caps. It's not that I mind placing parks around the city, but I always hated having to remember which lots provided what kind of cap relief and how much. Plus keeping a list handy of the custom content I use is just impractical. The r_standard_uncapped.dat works just fine for that, though I am using a mod of my own creation to do the same. The included Demand Mods are problematic, like any artificial demand mods are, especially when combined with no caps. When I can get Reader going again, I'll verify, but if there is any part of the RCI Multi mod that is truly inCAMpatible, it would be the desire_override.dat. But if that's the case, then it's a simple enough fix for anyone that wanted to use it with CAM, just as with @CorinaMarie's NKO mod. But really, the desire_override.dat would be more useful if it simply lowered the Desirability Threshold Growth and Desirability Threshold Decline values, instead of relying on parks at all. Aside from possibly the r_standard_uncapped.dat, there is no part of this mod that I would ever recommend for anyone to use. The homejobs idea was original at the time, which is what originally drew my attention to this pack of mods. But civic jobs do not count as actual employment as far as most of the game is concerned, so this creates a huge imbalance. For most of the other cheats, there are better alternatives available.

I'm glad it worked.

Actually, CAM allows for faster growth in your cities, with a higher max demand possible than vanilla. CAM 1.0 and 2.0 Standard growth stages are both balanced in line with Maxis. CAM 2.0 Skyscraper lets you reach the higher growth stages with lower regional capacities. The biggest benefit of CAM is that it extends that possible growth stages, allowing your cities to continue growing much longer than the vanilla game can. Vanilla stops at stage 8 for residential and commercial, 3 for industrials. CAM raises that to 15 and 10, respectively. This allows for growth to continue in your cities long after vanilla cities are maxed out. It also allows for buildings with higher capacities to grow at later stages, instead of trying to force all skyscrapers into a single growth stage. I have no problems reaching stage 14s or so in a single medium tile city, using CAM 1.0 and can easily go over 1million population. Stage 15s are more difficult to get to, and may require playing multiple cities.

There are plenty of stage 8s that are nearly impossible to grow in vanilla as well. Some custom content is just larger than what Maxis provided. CAMelots don't necessarily have more capacity than their vanilla counterparts. Cobalt Tower by Dusktrooper was originally a stage 8 with 4000 CO$$$ jobs. The CAM version is stage 13 with 1125 CO$$$ jobs. PIMX gives more balanced stats all around than any of the Maxis tools available, thanks to the variable filling degree. For Residentials and Commercials, any CAMelots stage 9 to 15 would have to be stage 7 or 8, usually 8. If you aren't ready for CAM, but still want larger capacity buildings to grow, my Turbo Mod works perfectly with vanilla SC4 as well as CAM 1.0.

For industrials, anything over stage 4 can be set as stage 3 for vanilla.

Again, you're more than welcome to provide images of such testing. I've already shown this to be inaccurate. You're arguing possible hypotheticals here, which isn't actual data. Valid testing shows the truth. Preferences aren't valid data though. I am glad the TSCT has been included with the NAM, but as an advanced modder, I find it limiting. So any adjustments I make are in Reader, where I have much more freedom and control. Your anger issues are invalid in either case. TheCrybKeeper was perfectly accurate when he said: Notice that he never said "the game will be broken". That is fundamentally different than what you're mad about. Simulator Z does "break" the balance of the vanilla traffic simulator in many ways, quite intentionally. Many of these I have already discussed in various threads and provided either mathematical or testing evidence to support. The question here is are those changes to that balance good for the game, or is it prone to cause problems? That's the case with any mod, but especially one as significant as the traffic simulator. You are more than welcome to provide similar data to support any of your claims or to refute mine. But this conversation absolutely must be based on facts. You should also stop with the baseless personal attacks if you care to continue this or any other discussion with me.

I think you have the wrong idea about the BSC Rewards Chains. Regional requirements for unlocking a given reward are generally based on regional capacities. These rewards may also require certain buildings to exist in the given city as well. The World Trade Center, for example: Regional Residential Population >700,000 Regional Commercial Jobs > 350,000; City Commercial Jobs > 80,000 CO$$ Demand > 2000; CO$$$ Demand >1000 City Hall and Stock Market If there are specific questions or concerns about any of the lots in the BSC Reward chain, I'm more than happy to answer those, though that doesn't seem to be the topic of this thread.

@Naomi57 Have to say, it seems I was wrong about this. Testing the totally R$ city I showed in the other thread, by adding just 1 elementary school and raising the EQ from 0 to 1, R$$'s and R$$$'s both started moving in. This was using a custom lot, with the same EQ boost as the Maxis elementary. So be careful adding any education, if you want to keep your R$s just as they are. A little bit of knowledge is dangerous. Again, I am using CAM, so your results may vary.

Funny. I can grow a single city with over 600,000 R$s using only streets and roads and not have this problem with Simulator Z, medium, with no customization. Whatever you think you're observing has nothing to do with the lack of mass transit. More likely, your SIms just don't have a viable path to the available jobs they'd be qualified for, or there aren't enough suitable jobs available. Because there's a little property in the traffic simulator, all traffic simulators in fact, (0x4953E8A3) Travel Strategy Percent WealthNone which is set at a default to allow 100% of all Sims to use the fastest available method. Otherwise, cities would require mass transit to be placed immediately upon startup. This is not the case. So you should probably learn about network hierarchy and capacities. Maybe upgrade some streets to roads, in order to speed commute times up a smidge. This will be the last time I argue against your anecdotes. Please provide actual data if you care to discuss the matter any further. This is a brand new city I created to show just how wrong you are. The first sign of abandonment came after population hit 600,000. There is absolutely no mass transit placed in this city, and I am using Simulator Z medium, unaltered, for this test. I could easily upgrade a few roads to avenues or use the NWM to fix things a bit, but I've tested enough to prove my point. Why would R$s need mass transit when they can walk the entire distance of the map? Saying that I hate NAM is not only overdramatic, it's a damn lie. No one would have ever accused z, jplumbley, mott, or any others of 'hating NAM' for noticing things about the traffic simulator that needed to be improved and then taking on the massive undertaking of putting a new simulator together. In just recent weeks, I've found the issue causing MAC 64bit CTD's in a couple NAM stations as well as other lots, suggested they add Industrial Cap Relief to their Maxis Seaport override, and have made myself available on the NAM Discord as they test and prepare for the release of NAM37.

I can confirm it works on Win10 GOG version. I can't rule out anything, as MAC SC4 has many issues Windows doesn't. But I think if there were IID issues, that would show up for me as well.

I play with CAM, and use about 5.5GB of Plugins. So our games are totally different. But I think with vanilla, anything more than a Maxis Elementary School may be pushing it. Definitely avoid museums.

Gentrification happens where I want it to as well. But again, it's a matter of math. The first step is to raise education levels, which changes the census drives, so that R$ will start demanding CO$$, CS$$, and IM jobs. When those grow, they'll then raise R$$ workforce drives. It's all very circular. An improperly modded or cheat school can throw things off completely, if you aren't expecting it.

I would absolutely love to have you onboard for the testing phase, Naomi. I feel like more often than not, we're on the same page, but you have no problem speaking your mind when we aren't. I can usually bring in the math to show just how right your gut instincts are. So I would be grateful for your feedback. Unfortunately, there just aren't very many experts left in any aspect of custom content creation. Fewer that have the time to devote to such projects. I don't pretend to know everything, but I'm willing to question everything, which is sometimes more important. And for the record, Traffic Simulator XX will be using patented Freaking Awesome Pathfinding. I don't believe in "perfect" pathfinding. I think if that were possible, then you could change only that part of the simulator and your game would improve drastically. That doesn't happen. In fact, network capacities are the most important change necessary from vanilla, for most players.

Thanks for that, Alex. Steve (z) started his Simulator Z development thread with a very specific goal in mind, to recreate Chicago in SC4. Unfortunately, that has major limitations. There are no eternal commuter loops in Chicago, or the real world. Going across county or state lines doesn't automatically double your commute time, unless you forget about the inevitable speed traps. Buses in real life have designated routes to follow and carry multiple passengers, the way Cities Skylines does, but not SC4. Airports in real life are transit hubs for the entire state, region, or world. The real world just doesn't apply here. Instead, we have to deal with the game's simulators and try for a solid balance of what is possible and good for the game. I'm certainly not bashing z's work on the simulator, or other projects. Nor would I ignore his research on the matter. His thread has a wealth of information to sort through, even if I don't agree with all of it. He has definitely made positive contributions to the NAM as a whole, as have so many others.

I have updated the descriptions for both the Windows and Mac versions of CAM 1.0 on the LEX.

It looks like you're using CAM v1.0 . Did you datpack it into your SimCity_1,dat? If not, then you've run into the known regional residential capacity doubling bug. Actually, I just checked your LEX account, so I can confirm this is the case. To properly install CAM, you will need to move your SimCity_1,dat from the game's install folder to a new folder in your Docs/Plugins named SimCity_1. Then, find ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat in your Plugins/a_CAM folder and rename it to zColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat. Now move this file to the SimCity_1 folder you created. If you now have SimCity_1.dat and zColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat in this folder, then you are ready to use DatPacker to merge the files. DatPacker or JDatPacker are both suitable for this task. Once that is finished, you should remove the entire SimCity_1 folder from Plugins and put it somewhere safe, in case you need it in the future. Then, in your Plugins_Compressed folder, find SimCity_1.dat and move it to your SC4 install folder where you found it earlier. You should now be ready to play the game using CAM as it was intended. You will likely see a dramatic boost to your Residential growth and demand, though Commercial and Industrial demand may completely tank until you can rebalance your region. This may require dezoning a lot of these areas and putting in new residential zones.

Why would you think that? Do you have sources or testing of your own that would remotely suggest that? How many new cities experience immediate unemployment and abandonment issues because 50% of low wealth Sims can't get to work? If you only have two bus stops in your city, does 50% of the low wealth workforce have no other way to get around? It is completely false to think the mass transit strategy is absolute. In fact, it doesn't come into play at all unless there are mass transit options available. The leader of the NAM Team liked my last post, when he could have just as easily told me to shut the hell up. Surely he would have corrected any misinformation I provided instead? Or maybe put a mad llama or whatever. All of my testing can be verified and repeated, time and again. You are providing no data at all, just unsubstantiated opinion. That is much more harmful to the casual reader. As is inaccurate information posted to the wiki. That too will be corrected in time, as proper testing provides irrefutable and overwhelming evidence. I know it won't always make me popular, but I will never just take somebody's word for anything so important to the game when all evidence points to the contrary. With every claim I have made regarding the traffic simulator, I have provided supporting evidence, by testing my theories. Each and every one of these tests can be replicated by anyone willing to do so. Simulator Z was certainly not the first traffic simulator ever introduced. It did not arrive without controversy and disruption. To my knowledge, there has not been a qualified, critical re-evaluation of it in quite some time. So I would say that is long overdue. It is important that anyone doing such an evaluation have an intimate understanding of all game mechanics, so that the flawed logic of prior simulators does not carry on in future releases. It will require extensive testing, as well as a lot of trial and error, mixed with a bit of math to formulate a new traffic simulator. Some elements of the traffic simulator are more intertwined with other parts of NAM than others, and it is important that we keep things like intersection capacity and turning speeds balanced properly for NWM, RHW, etc. There will be a lot of fine-tuning to do and many questions that we have to ask along the way. If you like your traffic simulator, you'll be able to keep your traffic simulator.

It took me a while to type all that out. I didn't realize the posts had been moved... I'll post in the proper thread.

I can't see any notable differences between the small shrubs dat and any others in the Lowkee set.

Only 196 dependencies this time... BSC LEX Superior Collection Vol03 Assembly Line includes over 200 Industrial ID, IM, and IHT lots. Farming will come soon!