Additional Public Transit

[Delta2k5 311]

Tank you @andreharv for the latest update!  

Still the tracks flicker on my screen, the lod doesn't do so anymore. Maybe that flickering is only visible if you've got "Sharp Textures" installed and activated ( https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=793176674&searchtext= ) as it's barely visible in some cases. It also seems like that issue isn't happening everywhere somehow, but I'm not able to point out when exactly. This happens on bumpy and flat terrain and mostly on the fence-less ground tracks.

[Delta2k5 311]

12 minutes ago, wojtason said:

Guys, Can you help please. When I activate Train Converter with MOM enabled train station disappear from the train menu. They appear in Metro menu only. How can I have these stations here and there?

There is no way to directly keep both. BP wrote some comment on this:

"Unfortunately this mod doesn't allow that. My advice for you is to make duplicates of those stations (make new assets using them as templates) and use local versions as train stations and workshop versions as metro stations"

[wojtason 113]

6 minutes ago, Delta2k5 said:

There is no way to directly keep both. BP wrote some comment on this:

"Unfortunately this mod doesn't allow that. My advice for you is to make duplicates of those stations (make new assets using them as templates) and use local versions as train stations and workshop versions as metro stations"

Ok, now I understand how it works. Thanks a lot!

[andreharv 1,197]

Hey guys!  I got reports that trains are not showing up in the train menu after the update.  This was the case for me so I will look into this with @BloodyPenguin. In the meantime, unsub/resub Train Converter and that will fix the problem.

*EDIT*I talked with him and he said that it is supposed to disappear from the rail menu.  @wojtason if you unsubscribe and resubscribe the trains will go back to the rail menu.  If you place them from the rail menu, are they indeed rail stations?

[sokayha 30]

On 2016/12/12 at 0:36 AM, sokayha said:

by use elevate MMO track, save and load, some place always show blue holes, even the strange tall mountain you can see in the picture :~

use terrain tool to fix them, save and load, they will appear again.

After MOM new update today, this issue still exist :~

[wojtason 113]

Well I think it works as it should? I unsubed and resubed. When I start a game with Train Converter enabled I see all my custom train stations in metro menu. When I disabled it I see all the custom train stations in train menu.I suppose it should be like that? Well, I keep it disabled  I prefer my rail where it is

[mikamaty 47]

46 minutes ago, sokayha said:

After MOM new update today, this issue still exist :~

It looks like you have a phantom node. There is a mod in the Workshop which solves this problem.

[sokayha 30]

33 minutes ago, mikamaty said:

It looks like you have a phantom node. There is a mod in the Workshop which solves this problem.

Do you mean this one?

Phantom Lane Remover (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=536250255)

By use this mod and load, it really shows some phantom lane is exist (about 100), but fix it then save and load (exit game then load), the issue still exist.

 

And, why I say it is caused by MOM, the blue holes or strange tall mountain will just show near the elevate MOM tracks,

and by remove the MOM tracks, save and load, the strange situation will disappear.

(the blue holes issue is also exist before, since MOM alpha)

 

[skallben 21]

13 minutes ago, sokayha said:

Do you mean this one?

Phantom Lane Remover (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=536250255)

By use this mod and load, it really shows some phantom lane is exist (about 100), but fix it then save and load (exit game then load), the issue still exist.

 

And, why I say it is caused by MOM, the blue holes or strange tall mountain will just show near the elevate MOM tracks,

and by remove the MOM tracks, save and load, the strange situation will disappear.

(the blue holes issue is also exist before, since MOM alpha)

 

I had a similar issue which I managed to solve by backtracking. I think in my case I caused the error while deleting old tracks with MoveIt's bulldoze function. Yours might be entirely different but what I meant to say is that even if it appears close to MOM tracks, you might have done other things along that might also be probable causes for the glitch:

I backtracked to pre-MOM save and made one change at a time: Delete original clipping tracks and stations - save/load - Add new stations - save/load - add MOM tracks - save/load - connect lines&depot - save load. I could not replicate the error and my conclusion is that it must have been caused by something else than MOM.

Remember there was also a patch released same night causing all kind of mayhem.

[sokayha 30]

29 minutes ago, skallben said:

Remember there was also a patch released same night causing all kind of mayhem.

OK, let me do some test on a new map.

1. Just build a metro station and some track
2. save and load, no any wrong when load
3. exit game without save, load with a map theme created by me, no any wrong after load
4. use 81 tiles to unlock all, add a new metro station and some track to a tile near map edge
5. save and load, ok, the issue shows......

Then I try to re-new a game, just use 81 tiles to unlock all, add a new metro station and some track to a tile near map edge, save and load, issue happen...

so it seems an issue when build MOM track outside 25 default tile...

(I know I should try use 81 tiles and edge tile is caused by I had issue before when change bridge pillars, save and load, the brige pillars outside 25 default tiles will change back to default...

so this seems similar issue just happen when use 81 tiles and build outside 25 default tiles :~ )

[R3V0 909]

I received some complaints about AVO not working on metros, how did you guys manage to keep illuminated engines on both ends ? 

[SamsamTS 93]

15 minutes ago, R3V0 said:

I received some complaints about AVO not working on metros, how did you guys manage to keep illuminated engines on both ends ? 

I haven't heard any complaints but this is correct. Should be easy to fix.

[skallben 21]

23 hours ago, sokayha said:

OK, let me do some test on a new map.

1. Just build a metro station and some track
2. save and load, no any wrong when load
3. exit game without save, load with a map theme created by me, no any wrong after load
4. use 81 tiles to unlock all, add a new metro station and some track to a tile near map edge
5. save and load, ok, the issue shows......

Then I try to re-new a game, just use 81 tiles to unlock all, add a new metro station and some track to a tile near map edge, save and load, issue happen...

so it seems an issue when build MOM track outside 25 default tile...

(I know I should try use 81 tiles and edge tile is caused by I had issue before when change bridge pillars, save and load, the brige pillars outside 25 default tiles will change back to default...

so this seems similar issue just happen when use 81 tiles and build outside 25 default tiles :~ )

I could not replicate this, tried building outside of the 25.

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

Is anyone here having issues with the Metropolitan Depot? I'm getting a couple reports on Steam but I don't think it's the depot causing the issues. It seems fine on my end.

[andreharv 1,197]

@sokayha I will look into this, though I am not sure why that would be.

@SamsamTS I will sub when I get home.  This needs to be supported by this mod...somehow!

@Mr_Maison: I don't care what they say about you, you're alright.  But seriously, you're fine.  Most of the things I have been hearing are in regards to pathfinding which we are working on which reminds me...

Since yall are around I was wondering if you could test something for me.  I was having issues earlier with setting station depths.  As I may have explained, this is a somewhat tedious process that is done when placing a metro station in which the mod finds all paths (metro or ped) that exist at or below the level of the highest metro path and pushes them down to the level you indicate.  That part is pretty straightforward.  The part I guess I was having issues with was generating a square staircase of ped paths to fill the gap between the entrance of the station and the metro station tracks that got pushed down.  I finished this algorithm months ago but sometime since then, CO produced a patch that made all pedpaths gravitate to roads  and rendered my beautiful invisible ped paths into jumbled spaghetti (since the metro stations need to be placed next to a road).  It was weird...like the closer the station was plopped to a road, the more jumbled the invisible ped paths got.  This wasn't as bad on shallower stations, but on ones deeper than 21m, it looked like there were some inconsistencies (sometimes worked sometimes didn't depending on road interference.  Anyway, I think I fixed it and released in a small patch this morning.   Could you confirm that stations deeper than 21m are taking in and letting out passengers?  If they are, you may notice in underground mode that the cims are descending down a circular staircase.  That is an indication that it is working OK.  If you have a deep station where trains are stopping but nobody is getting on or off, then this applies to you.  You will need to replace the station for the fix to take effect.

Thanks!

[SamsamTS 93]

@andreharv It might be fixed before you get home. Well if I come home first that is. Metros are VehicleType.Metro right?

[andreharv 1,197]

yeah I believe so.  

[sokayha 30]

17 hours ago, andreharv said:

@sokayha I will look into this, though I am not sure why that would be.

Hi:

I think you can put my issue in low priority now...

Thanks for information of skallben, as he can't reproduce by same method, so I try to disable all the mods I have, just leave 3....unlock all, 81 tiles, MOM, then the issue seems can't reproduce...

So what I need is to test my 68 subscribed mods to find out which one is conflict to MMO...I think I will do it by tomorrow after going to work :~

 

If I find the answer, I will give you a notice as a reference :~

[SamsamTS 93]

@andreharv @R3V0 I added back engine option for metros to AVO. The back engines get properly replaced but don't seem to get headlights.

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

2 hours ago, SamsamTS said:

@andreharv @R3V0 I added back engine option for metros to AVO. The back engines get properly replaced but don't seem to get headlights.

I gave BP a heads up on the headlights. All my trains converted with the train conversion mod have greyed out headlights even in daytime you cannot see the actual light texture. Maybe because up until now metro trains never saw the light of day and didn't need such things. Looks like either a bug or something new need to be added to metro cars.

[Delta2k5 311]

On my end the 8x 2400 has lights - textures and cones, but the cones are visible on both ends by now lol

[Bad Peanut 826]

8 hours ago, andreharv said:

@sokayha I will look into this, though I am not sure why that would be.

@SamsamTS I will sub when I get home.  This needs to be supported by this mod...somehow!

@Mr_Maison: I don't care what they say about you, you're alright.  But seriously, you're fine.  Most of the things I have been hearing are in regards to pathfinding which we are working on which reminds me...

Since yall are around I was wondering if you could test something for me.  I was having issues earlier with setting station depths.  As I may have explained, this is a somewhat tedious process that is done when placing a metro station in which the mod finds all paths (metro or ped) that exist at or below the level of the highest metro path and pushes them down to the level you indicate.  That part is pretty straightforward.  The part I guess I was having issues with was generating a square staircase of ped paths to fill the gap between the entrance of the station and the metro station tracks that got pushed down.  I finished this algorithm months ago but sometime since then, CO produced a patch that made all pedpaths gravitate to roads  and rendered my beautiful invisible ped paths into jumbled spaghetti (since the metro stations need to be placed next to a road).  It was weird...like the closer the station was plopped to a road, the more jumbled the invisible ped paths got.  This wasn't as bad on shallower stations, but on ones deeper than 21m, it looked like there were some inconsistencies (sometimes worked sometimes didn't depending on road interference.  Anyway, I think I fixed it and released in a small patch this morning.   Could you confirm that stations deeper than 21m are taking in and letting out passengers?  If they are, you may notice in underground mode that the cims are descending down a circular staircase.  That is an indication that it is working OK.  If you have a deep station where trains are stopping but nobody is getting on or off, then this applies to you.  You will need to replace the station for the fix to take effect.

Thanks!

this  gravitation happenedd around after dark I believe, it was when ever they fixed the terrain clipping when the slope was steep -  it's been shitting me off ever since

[sokayha 30]

18 hours ago, sokayha said:

Hi:

I think you can put my issue in low priority now...

Thanks for information of skallben, as he can't reproduce by same method, so I try to disable all the mods I have, just leave 3....unlock all, 81 tiles, MOM, then the issue seems can't reproduce...

So what I need is to test my 68 subscribed mods to find out which one is conflict to MMO...I think I will do it by tomorrow after going to work :~

 

If I find the answer, I will give you a notice as a reference :~

I would say sorry about the test I made yesterday...it seems the test is too simple to let it not fully correct...just with 3 mods enabled still will reproduce the issue.

(the issue is, when use 81 tiles, build MOM elevated metro track outside default 25 tiles, save, close game, open game, load, there will be strange mountain or blue holes be shown near the track)

(3 mods is official unlock all, MOM, 81tiles)

 

the elevated metro track may not always show wrong obviously, so I may not see it clearly by the edge fog cover it yesterday, or just it has a little chance to go well...

So when I test it today, I build 4 stations and tracks each time to make my eye won't lose them again...

I build them outside 25 tiles, as this picture show

build 4 stations and tracks like this

save, close game, open game, load (just load save without leave game, this issue will not show)

So a fully new game/save, just 3 mods enabled, this issue still reproducible in my side, I think god will not tell me that I also need to close all my assets to test...will it? :~

[andreharv 1,197]

I would suggest chatting with @BloodyPenguin on this.  He has worked with both mods and may be able to bridge the gap better than I could.  In fact the original 81 tiles and really weird issues like this for other things and one by one he fixed them so he might be able to give you some pointers. 

[wojtason 113]

Hi! Would the be possible to replace normal train tracks with @Tim The Terrible's tracks as well? Maybe as an option? That would be just perfect! Thanks! 

[Distanced 114]

12 hours ago, wojtason said:

Hi! Would the be possible to replace normal train tracks with @Tim The Terrible's tracks as well? Maybe as an option? That would be just perfect! Thanks! 

They're working on it, don't worry. His tracks are super awesome, but I believe that they are only going to be implemented once @boformer finishes the next version of the Network Skins mod, as it will allow for custom meshes.

[Ronyx69 2,413]

15 minutes ago, TransitAuthority said:

They're working on it, don't worry. His tracks are super awesome, but I believe that they are only going to be implemented once @BloodyPenguin finishes the next version of the Network Skins mod, as it will allow for custom meshes.

Um, that's boformer not BloodyPenguin, right?

[andreharv 1,197]

Uhh yeah...boformer.  No @Tim The Terrible's tracks are definitely a thing.  They will be replacing those long balloon looking tracks that I copied off of CO, not an option in Network Skins.  However,  one thing network skins will be used for in the future will be for third rail replacement with (drumroll)...caternaries!  This will accommodate the niche of LRT which AFAIK falls somewhere between metro and tram.

[Distanced 114]

3 hours ago, Ronyx69 said:

Um, that's boformer not BloodyPenguin, right?

 

1 hour ago, andreharv said:

Uhh yeah...boformer.  No @Tim The Terrible's tracks are definitely a thing.  They will be replacing those long balloon looking tracks that I copied off of CO, not an option in Network Skins.  However,  one thing network skins will be used for in the future will be for third rail replacement with (drumroll)...caternaries!  This will accommodate the niche of LRT which AFAIK falls somewhere between metro and tram.

Yeah, that's what I said.

[wasmic 111]

2 hours ago, andreharv said:

Uhh yeah...boformer.  No @Tim The Terrible's tracks are definitely a thing.  They will be replacing those long balloon looking tracks that I copied off of CO, not an option in Network Skins.  However,  one thing network skins will be used for in the future will be for third rail replacement with (drumroll)...caternaries!  This will accommodate the niche of LRT which AFAIK falls somewhere between metro and tram.

That falls quite a bit short of allowing us to build an LRT system. It'll only be as useful as the current train-based LRT that you can find on the Workshop.

LRT systems are not wholly grade-separated. Then it'd just be a metro or a medium-capacity rail system (MCS). Metros and MCS's are already possible with MOM. The very thing that makes an LRT an LRT is that the vehicles run in shared traffic for at least a bit of the stretch... or perhaps they run in the road median and still have to go through light-controlled intersections, even though the lights might be timed to the LRV's.

The Expo Line is a light rail, not a metro, because it has unguarded level crossings in the road... something that's just not possible in C:S currently, since it can't handle many interchanges right next to each other. This specific line can mostly be made with a metro (or train) system, but a vast majority of real life LRT lines could not be recreated in C:S with a modified train or metro system.

For the most flexibility, the tram system would have to be extended. And I know that I have said this before, but the ONLY things that are needed in order to have a fully capable LRT system that can be used to replicate EVERY LRT system, is underground tram station track, elevated tram station track... and perhaps some prettier tram tracks without pedestrian paths. Of these, only underground station track is strictly necessary, but the others would be very nice to have.

I'm not going to complain if you add catenary power to the Metro system - more variety is always better - but I certainly believe that the effort would be better spent expanding the tram system instead, since it is so much more flexible - and flexibility is what light rail is all about.

If you check the wikipedia page for light rail, you'll see that pretty much all the examples there contain at least some amount of street running, or at least running through intersections and otherwise running in the median.

Light Rail Rapid Transit or Light Metro is completely separate from light rail and only related by name. It's much closer to a metro than a light rail, the only difference being the length of the trains.

If you want to look at some archetypal light rail systems, take a look at things like the MBTA Green Line (street running, median running, underground running, elevated running and separated ground-level running) and the Karlsruhe Stadtbahn (runs on rail main lines in the suburbs/rural areas and in the streets in the city centre).