NAM: Development

[zachos-prague 0]

Oh, that's fantastic!

[BigSlark 0]

I'm a huge GLR fan and this is amazing work! I have no problem with tearing out my current GLR systems so I would be able to use draggable GLR.

I have a couple of questions:

1. Will all the existing stations, Vester's Tram Depot, and Subway/GLR transition have to be replaced?

2. Is it difficult to make stations for GLR Avenues?

3. When will we see a release?

4. Are the GLR lines Ped Tiles as well, thus allowing people to cross the street?

Also, I agree with <b>schMo</b> with the idea that barriers of some sort are needed for  realism. However, the inability to cross the GLR anywhere but intersections and stations seems like it might cause commute time nightmares.

What does everyone else think?

[Krio 624]

Fully draggable GLR please. I just love GLR.

[mjig_dudy 11]

*jumps for joy*

Draggable GLR, the best thing since, well, GLR puzzle pieces

[bokrif 18]

Great job! When can we use it?

[Meastro444 1]

when the next NAM comes out offcourse!! (no, no ETA's!!)

[hawkpride147 1]

fully draggable. i use glr extensively in my cities but i would gladly rip it out for fully draggable glr

[zakuten 8]

This may seem like a nitpicky thing, but possibly would it be able to include diagonal-exit pieces(where the GLR leaves the median, the one on the extreme lower right of the picture) that depart to the left as well as the current right one? If you need the GLR to turn the other direction, it'll definitely become odd if there isn't one.

[screamingman12 30]

I would say use the stations as GLR starter peices, this would make it more versitile, I have made many GLR system s never designed to be connected to an el network> Also, look at my GLR in road puzzle peices thread (https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=124&threadid=87245&enterthread=y), hopefully, we can get this into the NAM when it is finished. This will probably require lots of time and assistance, as I know nothing about making puzzle peice networks, or even BATing.

[topcliff 1]

Up until now, I have not experianced true ecstacy (happiness and excitement, not DRUGS)... NOW I HAVE!!! ThankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankYOU!!! TopCliff

[Andreas Roth 607]

Ok, quite a few questions here; I can't answer everyone individually, but here it goes:

1.) As mentioned already, there is no release date, and we won't even think of making up one. It's done when it's done - quite simple, eh?

2.) Obviously, there can't be turning lanes and GLR-in-avenue at the same time, since there's simply not enough room.

3.) Stations for GLR-in-avenue should be possible, however, they will suffer from the same space problem. I guess that there won't fit much more on the avenue than a sign, a timetable and maybe some kind of barrier (that's a good idea, but we have yet to see if the lightrail trains or trams and/or the cars/trucks aren't too wide, so they would "crash" in such barriers.

Looking at a typical tram setup, there's often no barrier at all, with the tracks just somewhere within a normal avenue lane. Trams are treated just like any other individual vehicle that uses the roads, i. e. they need winkers, and they have to stop at traffic lights (but they may have special lights so they could go earlier than the rest of the vehicles).

4.) More puzzle pieces/variations might be possible, but it depends on the time and skills of the persons who are creating these things if they get implemented. Of course, we try to include as much as possible, but sometimes, compromises have to be made (that's why we asked the questions about draggable GLR, textures etc.).

5.) As far as I know, pedestrians can cross avenues only at intersections. This is also true for GLR-in-avenue puzzle pieces, so there isn't really a need for special pedestrian crossings.

6.) If we decide to get rid of the current GLR puzzle pieces and use a fully draggable GLR system (plus some special pieces, like the starter puzzle pieces), the current stations would need to be modded. This can either be done by updating the existing stations (or more precisely, the transit enabling), but it's also possible to publish a mod that contains updated exemplar files for a variety of stations that were already released. This would have to be placed in a "zzz..." folder, so it's loaded after the current stations. It might be possible to create two different NAM plugins, so the user can decide if he still wants to use puzzle pieces or not, but obviously, creating two different possibilities will also increase the time for development, resulting in the common "When can we expect a release?" question.

[bwatterud 7]

Another possible solution for the stations with a possible draggable GLR (seems feasible in my mind) is a puzzle piece that goes from the new draggable GLR, to the old puzzle pieces, so the stations would work in the same way. Of course, you would still have the game crash issue, so it would defeat part of the purpose of draggable GLR, but it could work, right?

[allan_kuan1992 6]

My votes for the draggable GLR are:

Would you like fully draggable GLR, with the need to bulldoze all existing GLR puzzle pieces and update all your GLR stations? PARTIAL YES

Do you want to keep your current GLR setup, and use draggable GLR only between your stations by using the starter puzzle pieces? FULL NO

Do you want to place the stations first, use them as starter pieces themselves, and drag GLR between them? PARTIAL YES

Finally, do you want to keep the current textures, or do you rather like the ones created by goalio and ebina? FULL YES

The avenue GLR at first look is stunning. I would like it to be draggable as well though with the hidden code used by memo, but then again, not everything works all the time. I have also seen Olasz cooking up some street GLR as well, except who knows how long UDI will survive crashes, since the automata of one network can't identify the automata of another, or that was how it was explained to me a few years ago when someone else was trying to make a road GLR. And we need some eye-candy barriers that would simulate the look that the avenue GLR is well-sealed from trespassing sims. However... how do you get some stations on the GLR network? If I recall properly, someone else was working on the avenue GLR, and there was some sort of discussion regarding placement of stations on the avenue GLR.

EDIT: Okay, I found a picture of the possible textures for the GLR station on an avenue. Now all we have to see is if it works:

- Allan K.

[toxicpiano 125]

Originally posted by: allan_kuan1992

- Allan K.quote>

!!!!! Awesome!

[GMT 389]

once i removed the glr cuz i hated it...

but now...

now I wanna have the glr again... awesome work with it, especially the dragable version.

and the ave-puzzlepieces are awesome aswell. great layouting work, wonderful pieces. good fitting.

all in all, once more a wonderfull job from the nam-team.

But I'd like to suggest 3 things for the glr/avenue pieces:

- one puzzle piece fitting in with streets running through the ave (as far as I can tell from the showcase-pic, this part is missing)

- puzzle pieces for road and oneway road that come from o side but don't cross the ave/glr (like the single-sided street puzzle-piece)

- additional security markings around the glr rails on junctions and connector puzzle-pieces ( cuz I've actually never seen nonmarked areas of glr and roads crossing in real life)

[bokrif 18]

Actually there are tramlines in Budapest which share the rail with cars too. So if you look at the intersection puzzle pieces you see the tracks on the asphalt. Turning lanes therefore are possible.

[Olasz 0]

Originally posted by: bokrif Actually there are tramlines in Budapest which share the rail with cars too. So if you look at the intersection puzzle pieces you see the tracks on the asphalt. Turning lanes therefore are possible.quote>

 

could you attach a photo for better understanding?

[Andreas Roth 607]

@bwatterud: As a matter of fact, the "dual" approach (draggable GLR and unmodified stations) works exactly like this: You can drag GLR between those starter puzzle pieces  and use the ploppable pieces in between them.

BTW, someone at SimForum just reminded me of another advantage: Unlike GLR puzzle pieces, draggable GLR shows up as lightrail in the regional traffic view.

Even the GLR-in-avenue shows up as lightrail, it's the wider purple line that connects with the white avenues.

[Spoonman 0]

Incredible mod! I've been waiting for GLR-in-avenue since ... well, ever since GLR first came out, really. In fact, I've designed many of my cities with the anticipation of this mod finally being released, and many of my busy avenue corridors can be easily replaced without bulldozing an extra one-tile strip (what would have been required for 2 one-way roads and GLR). Fine job, guys. I can't wait for this to be released.

Since you were asking for feedback and ideas, I was thinking alternatively the texture behind the rails could be closer to the asphalt colour of the surrounding road to blend it a little more seamlessly. I'm not sure how well the rail would contrast with the black asphalt (for all I know, you already tried that and tossed it out since it didn't look very good), but I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

Again, incredible stuff.

[tommiej 0]

draggable GLR, totally awesome!!! and that in avenue stations really reminds me of Amsterdam, Rotterdam en The Hague. There you'll find plenty of stops in the middle of a road/avenue! this is another great impulse for the whole community! Draggable GLR, GLR in avenue, totally awesome!!!

[Spoonman 0]

Another idea for GLR-in-avenue stops (supplementary to those other people have suggested) are simply waiting shelters on the sidewalk alongside the avenue - this way passengers wait for the streetcar on the sidewalk and then cross one lane of traffic to board it, thus eliminating the need to take up space on the road itself.

People might think this may sound dangerous, but this is how the majority of stations work here in Toronto on streetcar lines that don't run on their own right-of-way. If a streetcar stops at a station, all other vehicles going in the same direction (both behind and alongside the streetcar) are required to stop while passengers board/disembark. In the past couple of years I haven't heard of any incidents where cars failed to stop and barreled into a bunch of pedestrians (although I'm sure it's happened once or twice in the past).

Edit: Unfortunately, this is the best picture I could find. The passengers wait on the sidewalk, and the stop can be identified by either a shelter or a pole with a sign/map on it (alternatively, road markings could be used).

[BigSlark 0]

With the nifty update ped mall tiles and overpasses, could the amazing person that made them possible make both a ped overpass and a ped overpass that is part of a GLR station?

/Off to figure out GMAX, the BAT, LE, and the new Pathing tool.

[redfox85 659]

Originally posted by: Spoonman Another idea for GLR-in-avenue stops (supplementary to those other people have suggested) are simply waiting shelters on the sidewalk alongside the avenue - this way passengers wait for the streetcar on the sidewalk and then cross one lane of traffic to board it, thus eliminating the need to take up space on the road itself.

People might think this may sound dangerous, but this is how the majority of stations work here in Toronto on streetcar lines that don't run on their own right-of-way. If a streetcar stops at a station, all other vehicles going in the same direction (both behind and alongside the streetcar) are required to stop while passengers board/disembark. In the past couple of years I haven't heard of any incidents where cars failed to stop and barreled into a bunch of pedestrians (although I'm sure it's happened once or twice in the past).

Edit: Unfortunately, this is the best picture I could find. The passengers wait on the sidewalk, and the stop can be identified by either a shelter or a pole with a sign/map on it (alternatively, road markings could be used).

quote>

The picture is Queen/Yonge for those wondering. If people want, I can easily get one with people boarding if they want an example.

[theDoubleH 0]

In my region, cars won't drive over avenue to one-way transitions or roundabouts... Does anyone have any idea why? This is taking away a lot of interesting road layout options.

[Tarkus 6,932]

theDoubleH:  There's a couple potential reasons for your problem that I can think of off the top of my head:

1) the One-Way Road may be drawn in the wrong direction

2) you're running the game right hand drive and you accidentally installed the NAM with the left hand drive option (or vice versa), which would reverse everything with the One-Ways. 

Regardless, I'd try uninstalling and reinstalling the NAM.

Hope that helps.

schm0:  Those pictures of yours look awfully familiar, being an Oregonian myself.  I used to ride the MAX and the Streetcar just about everyday during the brief period of time I went to PSU, and I could probably at the very least make a fairly accurate rough guess of where all those pics are from. 

-Tarkus

[theDoubleH 0]

Originally posted by: Tarkus

2) you're running the game right hand drive and you accidentally installed the NAM with the left hand drive option (or vice versa), which would reverse everything with the One-Ways.  quote>

This must be it...  I own two copies of SC4Deluxe but neither of them installed correctly so I downloaded an .iso.  I just realized the cars drive on the left, I must have downloaded a European version.

Thanks!

[kirgam 0]

Incredible stuff! Can't wait to use it ...

But again one question: Could in general this starter piece thing be applied to practically any transportation network, eventually making all additions (like e.g. dirt roads, trails, ped malls, road/el-rail double-decker pieces etc,) draggable?

Nevertheless, I'm still waiting for fukuda to finally release the electric bus system somewhen  which he made together with Yoman and as I understand it, uses starter pieces as well.

[Tarkus 6,932]

kirgam:  To answer your question, yes, the technology can be implemented in other ways . . .  

-Tarkus

[andy33b 0]

So here are some questions for you:

Would you like fully draggable GLR, with the need to bulldoze all existing GLR puzzle pieces and update all your GLR stations?

Do you want to keep your current GLR setup, and use draggable GLR only between your stations by using the starter puzzle pieces?

Or do you want to place the stations first, use them as starter pieces themselves, and drag GLR between them?

Finally, do you want to keep the current textures, or do you rather like the ones created by goalio and ebina?quote>

Since I already have used GLR extensively (without the use of GLR-Elrail transition) I would higly prefer your suggestion 2 or 3. Tearing down the station is ok for me but the whole GLR-Systems on every city... NO, that's way too much.

I also would prefer the new textures.

[memo 1,439]

Originally posted by: kirgamBut again one question: Could in general this starter piece thing be applied to practically any transportation network, eventually making all additions (like e.g. dirt roads, trails, ped malls, road/el-rail double-decker pieces etc,) draggable?quote>

Theoretically, it is possible, BUT it would require lots of new rules. I've added more than 2.000 lines of rules for draggable GLR to give you an idea. (BTW, each one is unique and it's a great deal not to lose track.) You can imagine how many rules would be necessary to make all those transportation networks draggable, thus it will probably never be done.