NAM: Development

[the7trumpets 10]

This thread is ONLY for development of the NAM. If you are not actively creating or helping to create something for the NAM by posting models, paths, etc, please post in one of the applicable threads below.

*Irrelevant posts that do not follow the scope of the thread, &/or do not add to the thread, will be deleted without warning & without notice.*

While encouragement and comments are welcome and appreciated, it is easier to work when the development thread is clear of such comments. To make these comments, please make them in the following thread. If they are posted in the development thread, they will be deleted.

General Discussion:

NAM General Discussion Thread

The development team will check the requests thread for projects to work on. If you have a request, go to the following thread, don't post them here. Thanks!

Requests:

NAM: Requests

If you are looking for the NAM, it's not in this thread. Links for NAM and related addon items can be found in the NAM FAQ thread. Enjoy!

Downloads: Network Addon Mod (NAM) and Real Highway Mod (RHW) FAQ and Download Links

For all those who have read the interchange tutorial, and are actively creating something for the NAM, please use this area to develop those items, post completed and in-progress additions to the NAM, and ask questions of the fellow developers if you run into a snag which the interchange tutorial, reader thread, and other modding tutorials don't explain.

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

damn, i should have put the last post i made in this thread

(its in the NAM discussion thread, last one with the pics of my (basic, maybe not good enough) model)

EDIT

im going to work on models/textures for these new basic off/on-ramps

[Sabretooth78 808]

To reiterate my proposed interchanges as posted previously in the NAM General Discussion Thread:

 

Here's my first modeling update, this is No. 1 from those shown above, a 90

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

i also plan to make the same on/off-ramps but with the exiting/entering road/one-way road/avenue leaving at a 90degree rightangle to the highway; and at the opposite angle to the diagrams ive shown.

this will take care of a couple of the requests in the NAM discussion thread. and and some more possibilities, i may also make the same ramps but with a flat ramp - stays level with the highway.. and one with a depressed/sunken ramp, which goes down to a lower level terrain.

a lot of onramps i know but it will add neaded diversity but keeping a realistic look i think i (seeing as no-one else seems to know) have also worked out a way to get them exact sizes the textures will need to be, from the GMAX model - and will make all the textures required

that just leaves someone to take care of other parts, im hoping someone is willing to help

or if anyone can suggest or make improvements to my models and textures

[Member19922 0]

Okay, I need help doin railings (i mentioned this a while back and am still stuck) here is a pic that i'll do my best to describe:  [hosted offsite] 

 

http://img28.exs.cx/img28/2378/NAMturn20.jpg width=35 align=middle vspace=1 border=0>

 

See the railings... i need help making them curved (to follow the curve of the road... and i tried using a bend modifier but it did not work for me, in a way that would make the appropriate curve...) as you can kinda see i made a straight rail for the very end (closest to the bottom) this would not work very well up at the top... so suggestions appreciated!

[ardecila 124]

Okay - the original railings are boxes, and you want the ralings to match up, right?

Create two boxes with the same height and width as the original railings. Make the length on the 1st one about 3.5 meters. Make the 2nd one about 25 meters long. Make the length segments somewhere around 12. Now use the bend modifier. The bend modifier can't refine the mesh and create new vertices: it just bends what's there. If the railing looks rough, try adding more segments to the box.

I could still use that IID for the straight rail piece . . .

[Sabretooth78 808]

After a little more work on the trumpet, I did a quick export to get an idea of what it looks like in-game:

And compared to the in-game cloverleaf:

Basically all that's left of the basic modeling is the embankments (or piers should I fail) and texturing.  Next I'll attempt #4 from my list (also on the request list) before going on to the other trumpets.

-Chris

[xannepan 513]

An update for the cobble stone puzzle pieces. I've made the cobbles smaller and created additional pieces. I have included a ZIP file with the original BMP files.

 

I don't know if more pieces are needed. If so, please tell me.

 

As for the model files, this can be a simple flat box, so I didn't include it, because it is made in a few seconds.

 

(I've made 2 alternatives for the straight piece, one with and one without water drainage to get some variation)

 

   

  

    

  

 

 

[xannepan 513]

Sorry... I didn't realize the zip was larger then 250k. I had to split it up... here's part1

[xannepan 513]

here's part 2 of the zip with cobble stone textures

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

maybe ive misunderstoof here.. but when creating a texture for a network piece which is not at a level gradient (flat)..

do you create the texture AS IF the piece was flat?? or do you make it bigger so that once the texture is put at the same gradient as the network piece, it fits perfectly?? if the latter is ture, then a network piece which is a slope would require a wider/longer texture that a network piece which is flat (if they both took up 1 game tile)

can someone please confirm this for me, pleease???

also: is there a way in gmaz to make a viewpoint in GMAX move automatically to a position where it is facing a polygon at a perfect 90degree angle (the viewpoint looking directly at the face of the polygon)?

EDIT

id like to help and let my expanding creations become part of this, but there doesnt seem to be much help at the moment, i may have to give up. ive made one model, and im willing to do textures.. and im willing to make more models and textures but FIRST id need to know HOW TO MAKE THE TEXTURE THE RIGHT SIZES.. and id also need to know theres anyone willing to do the other necessary pieces... ive been reading through redlotus's interchange tutorial - unfortunately i dont seem to understand at all some of the things being done in there and i only got up to reading phase 2 - so i dont know if i can do any other necessary parts of making them be a part of the game/NAM. i may ahave to just give up if there is no interest

[Andreas Roth 604]

@Larkyboof: Since cobblestone roads don't allow high speeds, it would be more reasonable to use the streets and not the roads. Plus, it would be easier to make them, since you only need a limited amount of textures compared to the roads.

BTW, the new texture with the reduced size of the cobblestones look great, xannepan! One small request: Would you please edit your posting with the cobblestone pics, so it doesn't break up the forum layout (i. e. putting the pics in two rows with four images each row).

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

TO START TAKING CARE OF REQUESTS # 9 and # 25 IN THE NAM: Requests THREAD:-

my first offramp model and texture are attached to this post (currently in PSD & GMAX format). they can still be improved by me/someone else - i think personally the texture is a bit sloppy [see below]


the configuration would be as follows (not including diagonal use of this ramp - as for diagonal use, all that follows from this point would need to be done differently)

TILE 1A / TILE 1B / TILE 1C
TILE 2A / TILE 2B / TILE 2C
TILE 3A / TILE 3B / TILE 3C

1A: one-way road (also flattens and raises/lowers THIS tile's terrain to: the same level as the exit from ramp OR [x] metres above the ground highway) ................... can also use normal 'diagonal one-way road' texture (it would appear as the 'end of a diagonal one-way road' texture before a road or network of some kind is attached)

1B: model piece ONE

1C: DOESNT MATTER

2A: DOESNT MATTER

2B: model piece TWO

2C: model piece THREE (must be ground highway in this tile before placing this interchange)

3A: DOESNT MATTER

3B: DOESNT MATTER

2C: model piece FOUR (must be ground highway in this tile before placing this interchange)





i cannot really provide any more than this WITHOUT some assistance, or some tasks being completed by others all help will be appreciated and you will be helping this brilliant game get even better

if i make all the ramps i intend and they all end up in the NAM, them two requests in the Requests Thread will be taken care of within this set

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

thanks for the dvice - i thought this too

the offramp is actually the same gradient as an onramp to a raised highway (but then i did always think the maxis on/off-ramps were steep! )

i would prefer to make it a gradual smooth ramp so i may play with it a bit more and re-post just the model (without the texture - unless there are any changes i could make to that too)

[Larkyboof 0]

Thats looking good edcase! Although the ramp is a bit too steep.

And i have done everything on the cobbled mod:



Everything has been done apart from these two:-

1.The cobbled to street transition because the cobbled mod will replace streets so there is no need.

2.I can't put both of the straight textures in with the game and make them randomize like you wanted, Although i could make the gutters only appear when you place High/medium/high density (In any combination). So for now i just put in the ones with gutters.

[qurlix 20]

If you don't mind having the drains alternate every other tile, that would space them out.

You simply need to add the FSHies for the non-drain tiles under a new IID, then find the two street exemplars. There should be one that ends in ODD and one that ends in EVEN. One should have its texture value set to the drain tile, the other to the non-drain tile. Hopefully this will work. I'll try it out myself now...


Good work to all who are willing to go out and try to make their own additions. Soon I shall try to join the effort by making that road to one-way tile. (start out easy)


edcase: If you want me to generate an in-game sample of the ramp, I can. I just need the model as S3D files. Sadly, I don't have GMAX or BAT. I can handle most else.


Again...looking great. Duckies for all.

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

thanx qurlix i can send you the model as S3D i 'think'

EDIT

ah i see. this is where my problem was because i could not understand that far into Red's interchange tutorial - to the point where its coverted to a S3D file

i will have to try again.. unless there is a different way i can just export the whole model (without following all the phases of the Tutorial) to S3D format, just for seeing what it looks like in game?

[qurlix 20]

edcase: Well...I could make the preview overlay thing. (the transparent shadow that appears before you place the network item) I also could make a render by UV mapping the whole shebang...though either way it couldn't be tested in-game.

At least we could see what the file looks like. If you want to do this, just follow Phase 9 in the tutorial. It seems (to me, anyway) that this is much easier than the tiling-S3D phase.

xannepan: I think I'm wrong about the odd / even thing because that exemplar seems to only control lots, though there is a reference to the path file...I'll double check.

sargeantcm: That's a very smooth looking trumpet! I sure hope these make it to the next stages soon.

[xannepan 513]

Thanks to everybody for assistance and feedback .

 

One remark though; The cobbles are meant to be puzzle pieces. It's nice to have them as replacements for streets but with puzzle pieces you can have them additionally to the existing roads.

 

Oh and.. tropod said it would be better to make them puzzle pieces for roads instead of streets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

qurlix - it looks like i will have to install the BAT then to complete that phase 9?? and wait for the long period while it does its rendering...

you see i dont have tha BAT plugin installed either, im just using GMAX

seeing as ive got to go to work soon i might leave it rendering (although surely it wont take long for a small piece like this)

arrr bloody hell. simcity.com appears to be down, can i get the BAT from here..?

[the7trumpets 10]

First of all, thank you for all of your work thusfar, this is really taking off .

Concerning Cobblestone Puzzle Pieces:

In order to make them puzzle pieces, they will have to be packaged as a 'flat' s3d object. I haven't ever done it before, but I think it's necissary for the object to have some height, just not much.

As far as the drains, if you made them into props which could sit on top of the road surface s3d object, we could place them using the type 21 exemplars. It may be possible to do things like alternating sides of the road which the drain is on, we just haven't gotten super-tricky with the type 21 exemplars yet, so we don't know for sure.

Look at the existing pedestrian mall puzzle piece without the center pole for an example of the flat s3d object.

[Thalassicus 33]

With the trumpet, I would suggest moving the bypass ramps closer to the main highway, this would reduce both building and maintenance costs, and they would still have the same turn ratio as the outer ramps (since you're just reducing ramp length)

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

Thalassicus you posted this picture in the NAM requests thread


showing how the highway ramps deform to fit the terrain! i didnt realise this happens in the NAM already

to anyone who can answer: 1) if i wanted my ramps for smooth transitions into roads/avenues/oneway-roads to deform like that - will this happen anyway?? and how should they be modelled, flat?? 2) can it be changed to stop this happening - and instead make the TERRAIN deform to a certain height at the exit tile?? as id intended all along (im undecided on which i want it to work at the moment too..)

[Sabretooth78 808]

I'll take a look at those radii.  I think the inner loop radii (measured at the centerline of the two loops) was 40m and that curve you pointed out was 50m, not quite as flat as it may look.  That's also roughly the proportions of the aerial image of a trumpet interchange that I found online.  I also don't want the ramps too close to the bridge, you wouldn't usually see something like that in reality.  But I'll take a look at it anyways!

 

As for the embankment, I finished it and then I realized two possible problems and why I may go to a combined pier/retaining wall system:  First off, how would an embankment be skinned in the interchange creation process?  Second, I would have to make a different texture for every terrain type - the green would look pretty ridiculous in a desert!

 

As for the interchange tutorial, I was reading it and just want to confirm something - it leads me to believe that the models don't have to be textured when exported.  I just create the FSHs as part of the skinning process.  Is this correct?  Hopefully so because I can't texture these to save my life!

 

Thanks

Chris

[Thalassicus 33]

Whups, sorry, I think I wasn't quite clear on that.  The 2 straight ramps on the incoming side of the highway can be moved closer and still maintain the same curve ratio (by just shortening the straight part) as the outer ramps (the second one I highlighted in the first picture), reducing the cost of the interchange. Like this:

    

Also, since this is (I assume, it looks like it) a even-distribution interchange with 2 lanes per ramp, you might want to consider having the rightmost lane of the offramps as exit-only, allowing for smoother traffic flow onto and off of the spur highway:

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files/Trumpet%20Suggestion%204b1.jpg> https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files/Trumpet%20Suggestion%204a3.jpg>

edcase2k4-thugangel1983:
Yes, ramps will deform, and yes, they should be modelled flat. About 2), Smoncrie's hole-digging lots do this, the easiest method might just be saying that the user needs to use *this* or *that* hole-digger, I'm not sure it can be applied to puzzle pieces (since they depend on their parent network for min/max terrain change information)

[xannepan 513]

T7T (and Tropod): I have corresponded with Tropod a bit, about the cobble stone puzzle pieces. I think he will have a look at it... but I'm not sure if it is his top priority. One issue he mentioned that concerned him is space in the menus for again an additional network piece. I have no idea how big this issue is, since I have no modding skills at all. My (simplistic) idea was that we would only need a single menu 'position' for the entire set of cobble pieces and then enable the TAB key to switch to different pieces.

As for the S3D model issues: Since I'm no good with modding, I really don't know if I can be of further assistance in this, except for creating more textures if needed. But isn't it possible to simple copy everything from the ped-mall tiles? and maybe copy the path files from the existing roads???

If it really is as simple as this, I hope this can be finished in not to long time ...

-xannepan

BTW: I'll repeat that I have no modding skills, but if you need textures for some projects your working on (turning lane etc) then I'll gladly offer my assistance. Just tell me what's needed and I'll see if I can find the time for it.

[Tropod 144]

Firstly, will people pppllleeeaaassseee oh pppllleeeaaassseee actually read the first post in this thread, if intending on posting in this thread ~ as it is obviously clear that some people obviously don't/didn't/haven't/hadn't/etc bothered to read what others have already posted, especially the first post. People cluttering up the thread with posts that don't actually contribute towards the actual contribution aspect, are not helping at all. If you want to debate the finer details of something, debate it in the NAM General Discussion Thread thanks, not here.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Interchange Tutorial Thread . This tutorial covers the whole A~Z almost, on how to create something 3D with BAT/Gmax. If you haven't got it, then get it. For interchange-based items, this does include Puzzle Pieces, Ped Mall Tiles, onramps/offramps, cloverleafs, dual-networks, double-decker-networks, overpasses, & even bridges (though bridges are dealt with a little differently). All folk need to do, is follow this tutorial. It is as simple as that (it is not the intension of the tutorial to teach users how to use BAT ~ there are plenty of tutorials in the BAT forums for that. The tutorial is mainly intended to show users how to make real 3D Models, in conjunction with & for the purposes of network-based items). anyhows.......


Creating Models:
Models made in the BAT/GMAX should be done accordingly to the interchange tutorial. Deaf2 & sargeantcm, what you have both currently done, looks astounding (sargeantcm good luck on the slicing up aspect on that interchange ). Folk should take note of their work, especially sargeantcm; that interchange, looks fairly accurate in terms of size, alignment & everything etc. If/When making anything, folk should imagine what the model should be like on flat level terrain in-game, & use that as a guide when making the model in BAT.

Rendering Models:
For a majority of network-based items, the model piece(s) are rendered with BAT without proper texturing (or in other words, are rendered just with default texture/colour). The Texturing aspect takes place *after* a render is done, via the Reader; this is *currently* a must (& those of you who read the tutorial will already know this). If some method can be sought whereby texturing can take place *in* BAT itself though, that would be great too (to date, I don't think anyone has managed to find a way to do this, properly, with proper 3D models).

Textures/Skining:
With texturing taking place via the Reader: again, the steps involved with this are explained in the Interchange Tutorial.

As far as a Model deforming to the Terrain, or the Terrain deforming to a model, when placed; This isn't really something that has a variable (height) control. And nor will modelling something in a particular fashion necessarily impact on how the Terrain/Model is deformed when the item is placed; Terrain/Model deformation is handled by the RUL files (mostly), basically in such a manner that a tile will either deform to the terrain/model or it won't.


As for priorities; I would like to think that higher priorities would & should be given to those items that *improve* existing network aspects *functionality*, &/or are *new functional* items in themselves: examples of this would be; corner Puzzle Pieces, diagonal Puzzle Pieces, new highway stacks covering more/new configurations, more Ped Mall Tiles covering more/new configurations & similar items. These sorts of items would actually add more new functional items/aspects to the game, as opposed to just prettying up &/or changing the look of something. And this is something of importance, since there is not an endless supply of menu'ing values for menu Tabbing &/or menu slots. The network file that handles the main menu aspects of the networks, only contains 65535 possible menu IDs. This is reduced though because of the games existing IDs used, & also because of the format of the file itself. So please just keep this in mind thanks.


And lastly; technical-based questions are more than welcomed in the thread. Just be sure it is not something already covered in the tutorial &/or elsewhere such as here (some of us are getting a little annoyed of the repetition). Folk should remember to make use of the NAM General Discussion Thread for general questions, &/or the debating of any aspects, & for anything else if unsure (including technical-based questions as well). And please, do make use of the forum PMs thanks. All this will just help with the new threads, & to help those creating new items for everyone.

[Sabretooth78 808]

Thalassicus - Yeah, I looked up a couple more trumpets last night and most of them had those ramps opposite the loop pinched in a little more, so I'll look at bringing them in a little as you show.  It means I'm going to have to redo the gores on that side of the interchange, but they weren't really as difficult as I like to make them seem.

 

Also, I originally thought of cutting that outside lane out, but there are a few reasons why I don't want to:

• The other Maxis interchanges don't feature that. (although they only feature one-lane ramps)
• Disrupts the continuity of the 3-lane highway.  In real life, this is called violating driver expectancy.  Same thing as why we highway people try to avoid left-exits where possible.
• For justification, I can think of a few 2-lane exit ramps around here that come off like that, however, I don't like them!  I think the better way to attack this problem is to have an auxillary 4th lane for some distance before or after the ramp.  That way the 4th is an exit only, and the 3rd is an option lane.  Come to think of it, I like that idea, the only problem is I'd like the aux lane to be at least a tile, it not 2 tiles long, but then I won't be able to keep the interchange shorter than 16 tiles (unless I gain more space than expected by reducing the length of the half-diamond ramps, especially the lone one diagonal to the loop).  I can probably also pinch the off-ramp loop a little closer to the on-ramp loop.  I'll play around with it a little tonight, now that I don't have to worry about texturing yet!

 

Tropod - I see comments on here about making interchanges flat because the ramps will deform to terrain.  Now since I have approximately a 9 meter rise from underpass to overpass, I'm assume the best (only) way to do that is to have a roughly linear profile falong the ramp?  I can't think of any other way it can be done.  That's good news about the textures also, as I said I suck at that and will try to avoid it at all costs!

 

Also, the tutorial mentions to avoid lofts.  I've used lofting to construct this, and without the embankment (or piers as I believe I must go), I get around 2300 polys, which doesn't seem especially high (maybe 10-15 per tile on average).  I basically use the same S3D cross-section I imported from Reader (to explain why my model is more-or-less perfectly consistent with the Maxis stuff).

 

-Chris

[Sabretooth78 808]

I don't know if this material has been posted previously, so I've taken the liberty to compile a bit of information pertinent to Maxis' highway segments.  This was derived by using Reader to export the highway 3DS files into gMax.  One important thing I found (which may or may not have been noticed) is that the orthagonal and diagonal highway pieces are of identical dimension.

 

Here's a simple diagram of the dimensions of a highway cross-section.  From what I can interpret from the 3DS, it appears Maxis essentially takes this and lofts it to develop a highway segment:  (mirror about the C/L for the full width segment)

 

 

The lane width is obtained simply by dividing the deck width by 3, assuming no shoulders and all lanes are of equal width.  So a 2-lane section would be 6.3664 m wide.  By overpass height being deck-to-deck, I mean that the deck surface of an overpass is 9.7144 m above the lower deck surface.  Essentially a point on the overpass is 9.7144 m above the corresponding point on the underpass.  I would assume this means a ground highway sits at the same elevation?

 

Hopefully this stuff helps and encourages some people to create more highway interchanges, getting this stuff down is probably the only block to creativity!

 

Thanks

Chris

[the7trumpets 10]

Thanks for that, sargeantcm.

This is what I tried to point out a while ago, in the old thread. Basically avenues are different widths for the orthagonal and diagonal sections, but highways are exactly the same, just rotated.

The application of this is that ANY highway interchange models can be made diagonal simply by rotating the model before slicing and exporting. One note about the interchanges: while there are 8 directions a highway can lead, there are actually 12 possible interchanges for all the rotations because of the way the diagonal tiles line up against each other. These 12 possibilities are extrapolated from the 4 90 degree rotations done by the game of 3 basic interchanges, all with thier individual pieces.

In short, for each diagonal two-network interchange, it must be shifted orthagonally in the xy plane by one half tile (8 meters), and re-sliced.

In interchanges where highways meet at 90 degrees (all the original maxis ones), this means there are 12 possible rotations, 8 diagonal and 4 orthagonal. However, for interchanges which have one diagonal highway and one orthagonal highway, there is a diagonal two tile wide network in each of the 8 rotations, meaning there are actually 16 possible rotations, made from 4 different rotations of the model, sliced and exported.

Since we don't have the capability of exporting fully skinned s3ds from gmax, it's probably simply beyond our manpower to do all the possible rotations, since a lot of the work is in the reskinning and path/rul writing process. However, if someone does want to do all of the possible rotations to create a complete interchange set, that is what's necissary.



I realize this is very confusing and possibly clouds the subject even more, but I wanted to point it out. I'll try to draw some pictures and word it intelligably, editing my post in the next day or so.