Network Widening Mod (NWM) - Development and Support

[Ganaram Inukshuk 906]

I was curious as to whether or not a transition between MIS and OWR-1 could be made at some point in the future. It would actually be really useful for making intersections and such, since the MIS (being a highway-type thing) doesn't have too much support for such.

There's a handful of other transitions like that, and those are the OWR-4 to 8S, OWR-5 to 10S, and ARD-3 to RHW-3 transitions. The transitions themselves, for the record, take about 30 minutes to make, so they're extremely easy to make, and at least one of those has already been made. The issue is this: where do you put the code for it if we're on the verge of making a code-writing system (really a high-level programming language for RUL2 code) that can write all of the code for us with practically no human error?

Also, if the MIS network is really skimpy in functionality, the fact that all the code for it was written by hand and copypasta'd countless times is part of the reason why we need a high-level RUL2 programming language.

(Personal thoughts in spoiler, if you wish to keep reading.)

Also, if you consider the fact that the MIS's original name was "MIS-1", you'd be denying the MIS network from what it really should be: the primary interchange network for the RHW. The name also implies that a MIS-2 to MIS-3 would've been possible, but the RHW-4 and RHW-6S networks have taken over those functions. Just by the name, what I think the MIS should be is a cross between One Way Road and Turn Lanes, with variable widths and the same level of intersectability as any other network. I don't find it fitting to just substitute the MIS with something else entirely, unless it's for a specific workaround.

[MushyMushy 3,617]

The issue is this: where do you put the code for it if we're on the verge of making a code-writing system (really a high-level programming language for RUL2 code) that can write all of the code for us with practically no human error?

 

Oh, yeah. That makes sense now! I had forgotten about the major changes you guys have been trying to implement to RHW (stuff talked about on the SC4D page if I recall..). I see what you mean - no point in working on new stuff if it's all going to change in some (significant) way soon.

 

Thanks!

[waddupp00 3]

Is there any mod to change the TLA-3 median texture ?

[Tarkus 6,932]

There are the Euro textures, which are now in the NAM itself.  That's about it, as far as I know.

 

-Tarkus

[Canelo 5]

I cannot create highway-like exits and entries with NWM roads, right? So that means I can't create these kinds of exits using a NWM 6-lane road or avenue. With these I can only do traditional intersections, and if I want to have highway-like exits, I need to transform it into a RHW. Is that true?

[rsc204 21,808]

It just requires a little creativity to make such things work, for example when you have the RHW cross over the NWM there is no problem with making interchanges. Additionally a number of the NWM networks will transition smoothly to RHW, for example if you are using TLA-7/TLA-6 you can transition to RHW-6C to make an overpass over RHW that looks and works just fine. Even for those networks that don't support it directly, using the NWM transitions to switch to a network that does is usually possible without looking bad.

[TakemeThere 5,833]

Spoiler

Can't seem to find the transition piece above where the two one way roads join into one. I've been cycling through the NWM transition puzzle pieces(NAM 34) and it doesn't seem to be in there.

Edit* Figured it out, you have to drag them out.

[Breki 6]

...

[f3cs 1,063]

Can I create RHW exits and entries with NWM roads? If no, it will be possible in the future?

[rsc204 21,808]

Do you mean like dedicated ramps? If so, not currently, but I do think there are plans afoot here. Probably connected with the flexification of TuLEPs.

As it stands, it should be possible to connect ortho MIS to NWM networks to create simple junctions. I often find though you'll need a one-tile gap either side of the RHW before making the intersection, because starters are inevitably required to keep the NWM overrides in place.

[f3cs 1,063]

Yes, dedicated ramps. Thanks rsc204!

I have another question:
It's possible to make NWM Viaducts? thanks

[Tarkus 6,932]

NWM Viaducts are definitely planned.  I don't know how they'll work into the grand scheme of NAM updates, but likely sometime after there's more updates to the base Road/One-Way/Avenue Draggable Viaducts.

-Tarkus

[Dracoceros 33]

hello. I have sucessfully installed NAM. However, the starter pieces for NWM are not appearing. This includes roads, one way streets, and avenues. Can someone please help me?

[APSMS 1,892]

Did you choose the standard installation, or a custom installation? IIRC, NWM is not installed unless you choose a custom install and select the NWM networks in the menu.

[Dracoceros 33]

57 minutes ago, APSMS said:

Did you choose the standard installation, or a custom installation? IIRC, NWM is not installed unless you choose a custom install and select the NWM networks in the menu.

I choose both custom and selected NWM network, as well as it's subroots, and it didn't show up. After, I selected full installation, which includes NWM networks, and that didn't work either

[APSMS 1,892]

Are you aware that the NWM starters are all located under the same button, midway down the Roads menu?

The TAB key is used to cycle through the various starter options once selected. The same goes for any other NWM options that may pop up, like transitions or Rural Roads curves.

You have verified that the NAM is actually installing into your SC4 Plugins folder, correct?

[nathkel 31]

Myself, I'm waiting for upgrades to the NRD-4, especially in regards to the transitions to other widths, like TLA-3 and AVEs. We have many streets like this here in Clearwater Florida, and I can make use of this street type in a lot of places where I don't want to reclaim easements for an Avenue, but the traffic is getting too thick for a single lane road even with a turn lane. Frankly, I don't know why this isn't wished for more; I'd be using it everywhere I could before I HAD to make room for Avenues.

I see your planning on elevated versions for the next release (or maybe the one after). Will you also have transitions?

[Tarkus 6,932]

The NRD-4 has always been the proverbial "redheaded stepchild" of the NWM family, in part because its addition to the mod was initially controversial.  We are continually and gradually adding to the set of transitions available to all the NWM networks, including the NRD-4, though it depends on texture creation, and the current focus of the development team.  MushyMushy, one of the newest members of the team, did supply some textures for NRD-4-to-ARD-3 and NRD-4-to-RHW-4 transitions recently, as well as a few of the other NWM-to-RHW missing links.  I believe either Dexter or michi_cc (possibly both) made NRD-4-to-Avenue and NRD-4-to-RD-4 transition textures as well a few years ago, but as there's been very little NWM activity since NAM 30/NWM 2.0, these haven't made it in yet.

Right now, NWM development remains on the backburner, aside from improvements to RHW x NWM crosslinking (particularly in relation to the QuickChange Xpress project) and interfacing with the FLEX Turn Lanes (FTL) project.  It's possible that some of these transitions might sneak in during that process, but I wouldn't anticipate the elevated NWM networks to make an appearance until NAM 36 at the earliest.  I can't say for certain what the initial phase of that might look like, but I would anticipate merely enough there to create some basic overpasses, with ground-to-elevated transition support through overrides on the existing FLEX transitions, but no transitions from Elevated NWM-to-Elevated NWM.

-Tarkus

[Tarkus 6,932]

Well, NRD-4 fans, it's time to rejoice . . .

Four new transitions will be coming your way.  Textures are courtesy of @Dexter and @MushyMushy.  Pathing is done on the ARD-3 one, and still needs to be done on the other three.

-Tarkus

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

I've only recently discovered two capacity-enhancing features: NWM (specifically TLA-5) and avenue roundabouts (aka traffic circles). I am wondering what the recommended technique is for using them together. I've gotten some weird results from dragging.

Is it expected that one or two squares of vanilla Maxis avenue must connect to the circle so that the TLA-5 sees something familiar to transition to? Or is there some trick I am missing? Should I be using something other than the 4x4 avenue roundabout to connect TLA-5's?

I have a similar connection issue with FLUPs. Should I use two road ramps instead of the avenue ramp?

And how do I make a diagonal TLA-5? The starter piece shows me only the two ortho orientations when I rotate it. I've also tried to drag from an ortho TLA-5 to diagonal (put a bend in the road), but I end up with a transition to two single-tile roads with a messy intersection where the curve is supposed to be. I looked at the NWM user manual, but I don't understand the pictures on page 20.

Please let me know if you need pictures of my failures.

[rsc204 21,808]

1 hour ago, jeffryfisher said:

I am wondering what the recommended technique is for using them together. I've gotten some weird results from dragging.

Drag ave from the roundabout so you've a Ave Stub before trying to transition to NWM, since the middle parts of these roundabouts are simply not built to accept road connections. You might need an extra tile or two to cover the transition however.

1 hour ago, jeffryfisher said:

I have a similar connection issue with FLUPs. Should I use two road ramps instead of the avenue ramp?

Same as above really.

1 hour ago, jeffryfisher said:

And how do I make a diagonal TLA-5

There are two methods for diagonal multi-tile networks. Shared tile and Split tile. If the two roads are dragged such that on every other square two roads are in a single tile, that's a shared tile setup. If they do not ever touch, that's a split tile one. I can't remember off hand which TLA-5 is, but it's one or the other. Check out my NAM Tutorial videos, part 4 covers NWM and shows examples of transitions to diagonals. (link in my signature).

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

On 3/6/2017 at 3:29 PM, rsc204 said:

I can't remember off hand which TLA-5 is

By the doc, it is split-tile.

EDIT: After several trials and errors, I managed to drag an ortho TLA-5 into a corner and diagonal. The trick (it seems) is to drag the outer road first and then the inner. If I do it bass-ackward, I end up with the inner lanes looking TLA-ish, but the outer draws a simple road, even when spaced correctly.

Many simoleons died to bring us this information...

  Edited March 11, 2017 by jeffryfisher  
Success

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

OK, new question:

I have an avenue emerging from its FLUP, and I want to transition to one of the triple-tile networks (TLA-7). Dragging is failing in both directions, I'm not seeing any transitions among the puzzle pieces or in the doc. Is there some three-step process to turn a Maxis avenue into a TLA-7? If so, it's not obvious, and I haven't found it in the doc or searching Google.

As far as I can tell, TLA-7, AVE-6 and RHW-6C exist in a warp bubble that can convert amongst themselves but not convert into anything else in the universe. Is there some secret sauce that will turn one of these into a 2-wide that can be transitioned into a vanilla Maxis avenue?

PS: Does the vanilla Maxis avenue have an AVE-something abbreviation among the NWM alphabet soup?

[rsc204 21,808]

2 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

As far as I can tell, TLA-7, AVE-6 and RHW-6C exist in a warp bubble that can convert amongst themselves but not convert into anything else in the universe. Is there some secret sauce that will turn one of these into a 2-wide that can be transitioned into a vanilla Maxis avenue?

Not really true, RHW-6C isn't the most flexible network in some respects, neither are it's 7C/8C brethren. But transitions (Width Transitions) do exist. Mostly to convert back to S networks though.

TLA-7 / AVE-6 though are a different story, puzzle pieces have long existed to transition them to Ave. Look in the NWM Transitions menu.

Recently though (NAM35) new draggable solutions have been implemented for many NWM transitions, some which didn't previously exist.

 

2 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

PS: Does the vanilla Maxis avenue have an AVE-something abbreviation among the NWM alphabet soup?

AVE or MAVE-4 (Maxis Avenue 4-lane).

[Tarkus 6,932]

MAVE was actually the abbreviation for "Medianless Avenue", which was the old name for the "Road" networks in the NWM (RD-4, RD-6, and NRD-4--though the ARD-3 has always been the ARD-3).  We ditched the MAVE designation a few years back, because people kept getting the MAVE-6 and AVE-6 confused, which greatly complicated support and general questions about the mod.

The other designation for the Maxis Avenue that has been thrown around internally among NAMites is just plain "AVE-4" (to go along with AVE-2 and AVE-6--networks where opposing directions of traffic are separated with a physical median).  There have been intermittent discussions over the years about potentially implementing a Road-based override network that looks like the base Avenue, but uses a split-tile diagonal setup like the TLA-5, instead of the Avenue's shared tile setup.  (There's also even been prototypes of a RD-4-styled Avenue replacement, since RD-4 uses shared-tile diagonals).

-Tarkus

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

16 hours ago, rsc204 said:

new draggable solutions have been implemented for many NWM transitions

OK, the video shows an undocumented transition from TLA-7 to twin OWR-somethings. It also shows some techniques such as dragging into, not out of the NWM roads, dragging 3 or 4 tiles in in some cases. I'll experiment some more (and leave more room) to see if I can find more undocumented draggable transitions.

With twin OWRs, maybe I can transition to MAVE-4. I'll also try replacing my avenue FLUP with a pair of OWRs.

[rsc204 21,808]

12 minutes ago, jeffryfisher said:

With twin OWRs, maybe I can transition to MAVE-4. I'll also try replacing my avenue FLUP with a pair of OWRs.

You could try that, but there is a much simpler solution, perhaps you missed this:

17 hours ago, rsc204 said:

TLA-7 / AVE-6 though are a different story, puzzle pieces have long existed to transition them to Ave. Look in the NWM Transitions menu.

[APSMS 1,892]

On 3/6/2017 at 10:26 PM, jeffryfisher said:

Many simoleons died to bring us this information...

Maybe I'm a terrible person but my slope mod is edited so that the cost of roads and such is reduced by ~90% (road tiles cost $1 to drag out, other networks are similarly priced).

The simulation and budget still matter to me, but only as a signal that the game's economic simulation is still functioning (since I don't run Lot Editor cities). Too much trial and error, and not enough real consequence for ignoring the budget game has led me to totally ignoring the cost of ploppables, including infrastructure construction in SC4. RHW interchanges bear the brunt of this, given how much bulldozing ends up being involved, but other construction projects go similarly. There's not enough joy in managing the budget for me to care about it, as long as the city turns a profit and runs smoothly.

[rsc204 21,808]

I have to agree with @APSMS here. There are plenty of situations the game can't account for where budget is concerned. I'll run a monorail over a large tile and end up bankrupt from my initial half million coffers. Much of this is because I am relaying the network many times to get slopes in place and for other considerations. Should that affect my bottom line?, I don't think it should, so I just use the Moolah cheat and give myself the money I need. I want to build things, I do keep my cities in the black when they get going, but otherwise I'm happy to take as much Moolah as I need to build it as I want.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

13 hours ago, rsc204 said:

perhaps you missed this:

On 3/10/2017 at 7:42 PM, rsc204 said:

TLA-7 / AVE-6 though are a different story, puzzle pieces have long existed to transition them to Ave. Look in the NWM Transitions menu.

Not finding such in the transitions loop or the doc is how I started my question here. Perhaps I am not understanding a label.

Anyway, the conversion to twin OWR looks (ugly but it seems) like it worked:

One difficulty was that the OWRs would not go diagonal, hence the zig-zag to align with the TLA-7. BTW, those drawpaths are what's left on after commanding drawpaths off.