Twinkle, twinkle, little BAT...

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

I love them, I do miss you making these type of building, they are so damn cute.  

[raynev1 1,887]

      So cool . You know I had to make a city tile named after you . It is called "Madhattersville" . I don't know what else to say except , thank you . Thank you for all of your hard work you have done with making Simcity4 such a versatile medium . 

      What's next ? Maybe , some low to midrise R$ or R$$ ? (HintHint) 

[Thin White Duke 4,072]

Yes! Just what we need! 

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Sir Lamps-a-Lot! That one alone certainly brightened my day. All these little shops are beautiful! By now, the days of boring low-rise commercial services are over, especially on the smaller lots (1x1 to 3x2/2x3).

@raynev1 has a good point, though - those 2x3/3x2 apartment buildings are also rather ubiquitous. @Gn_leugim once made a few that were designed specifically to compete with vanilla buildings, but apart from that...

It may very well be possible that residentials are just not up your alley, though.

[DavidDHetzel 1,816]

10 hours ago, madhatter106 said:

As much as I love doing the office buildings (and I confess, I don't think I'll ever have plumbed the depths of those completely), I have been wanting to do some medium wealth commercial service buildings to add some variety to that realm.  From left to right, here are their tentative names...

• Beards & Shears Fine Barbers
• Rita's Fashion
• House of Fabric
• H-2-Oh! Water Filters
• Kitchen & Restaurant Supply
• The Vitamin Depot
• Carpet World
• iFixit Phone Repair
• Sir Lamps-a-Lot Lighting Fixtures

EDIT: I think this one ended up being too wide, so the site squishes it a little and makes it look fuzzy.  If you click on the image, it will bring it up in a better window so you can see these little dudes at the proper resolution...next time I'll arrange them in two rows so the image isn't as long...

yes! We need small commercial!

edit: Random idea, but I think you should make a vaping store.

 

[Ceafus 88 1,906]

Nothing like a building with a giant pill on it!

 

I love what you have done here.  

[matias93 7,535]

45 minutes ago, Ceafus 88 said:

Nothing like a building with a giant pill on it!

It felt a bit like Simgoober releasing something new  

[madhatter106 3,931]

Yeah, I agree with the sentiment that these are sorely needed - even with what is available on the various exchanges, it seems one can never have enough CS variety, of any wealth level.  I find that I tend to spend a good chunk of my playtime (what little there is) floating around the commercial zones more than the other types, and when you don't have a lot to dilute the Maxis stuff, it gets really boring looking.  Thankfully BATters like jmyers2043 and SimGoober and all have given us a great jumpstart to mixing things up with their commercial buildings.

Lowrise residentials have been in the back of my brain for years now - particularly three or four or (maximum) five story apartment buildings.  I think other, better BATters have the single family homes well covered and represented, but I do like to see variety in low or medium wealth lowrises.  Lots of cities are composed of dumpy little apartment buildings between six to twenty units total, which our eyes just glaze over and we don't notice when we drive past them. 

Part of the problem for residentials (at least to me) is the varying scale that Maxis seems to employ - some of the single story houses are either way too tiny or way too large, and I can never get a good handle on what looks best.  I think it has been discussed in other threads before, but my few attempts at tackling residentials of this nature always seem to be oversized.  I guess it could just be my mind playing tricks on me, too...

I think a good number of NYBT members have done some really great larger multi-family buildings, and I don't think I can even touch their greatness, but eventually I may try my hand at some residentials.  I even know what naming conventions I would use for the first pack...haha...

[matias93 7,535]

That sounds great! Also, congratulations on your 1,100 posts!!! 

[Ceafus 88 1,906]

@madhatter106 you have been doing an amazing job with every building you have made, these are no exception! Good eye for something that is much needed.

[DavidDHetzel 1,816]

31 minutes ago, madhatter106 said:

Yeah, I agree with the sentiment that these are sorely needed - even with what is available on the various exchanges, it seems one can never have enough CS variety, of any wealth level.  I find that I tend to spend a good chunk of my playtime (what little there is) floating around the commercial zones more than the other types, and when you don't have a lot to dilute the Maxis stuff, it gets really boring looking.  Thankfully BATters like jmyers2043 and SimGoober and all have given us a great jumpstart to mixing things up with their commercial buildings.

I really have been tempted to post an editorial piece on the lack of CS content on the STEX lately, so I'm glad to see this lot come to fruition.

As for Jmeyers and Goober, yes they have good models but there are two inherent problems w/ their works. A.) Age and b.) the Lots

When I say age, what I mean is; the buildings that they built were representative of the time in which they were made so most buildings are at least in design 10 years old since most of there work was from the early 00s. A lot of major retailers have since updated their looks in the last 10 years, only a handful have ended up in game, even some of Goobers newer works like O'Charley's has rebranded since he made that building.

Also a lot of the actuall Lots and buildings were designed for 6x6 growables and plop lots were a mere after though. Now a days Plop lots are the common meta as people move towards a more detailed micomanaged style in which unlimited money cheats allow them to plop every last detail into their cities w/o any monetary reprocussions. So now we're dealing with lots that come off as massively undersized.

In short, I think we need more modernized commercial service and retail lots, I'm glad  @kingofsimcity and @RRetail are working to fix the second problem I listed, but reelly we need more fresh commercial retail!

Hopefully your work will spark more people into BATing commercial retail instead of the dime a dozen skyscrapers we're getting on the STEX right now.

 

Cheers!
David H

[RRetail 7,912]

BARBER SHOP!!!

Awesome to see you doing some commercial stuff too! You have a good eye for detail which is something which I love about your BATs.

[madhatter106 3,931]

23 hours ago, DavidDHetzel said:

I really have been tempted to post an editorial piece on the lack of CS content on the STEX lately, so I'm glad to see this lot come to fruition.

As for Jmeyers and Goober, yes they have good models but there are two inherent problems w/ their works. A.) Age and b.) the Lots

When I say age, what I mean is; the buildings that they built were representative of the time in which they were made so most buildings are at least in design 10 years old since most of there work was from the early 00s. A lot of major retailers have since updated their looks in the last 10 years, only a handful have ended up in game, even some of Goobers newer works like O'Charley's has rebranded since he made that building.

Also a lot of the actuall Lots and buildings were designed for 6x6 growables and plop lots were a mere after though. Now a days Plop lots are the common meta as people move towards a more detailed micomanaged style in which unlimited money cheats allow them to plop every last detail into their cities w/o any monetary reprocussions. So now we're dealing with lots that come off as massively undersized.

Speaking to age, therein lies the merit (or, shall we say, lack of pitfalls) in doing something that is either "generic," or something entirely dreamed up by the BATter.  I've never done a recreation of an existing branded building - far too many before me have done McDonalds and the like, and probably much better than I could have done.  It's not that I want to avoid this very problem, it's just that creating "name brand" buildings doesn't interest me.  The great thing about something like Kahuna Kip's Surf Shack or Yuzo's Teriyaki Bowl is that they don't exist in "real life," and therefore won't age out or grow stale years after they've been downloaded and added to the plugins folder. 

Though I wouldn't say that ageing is a major problem for a lot of SC4 players - while places like Chipotle and McDonalds have certainly changed their image in regards to their physical locations for their storefronts, I know of places where their older, outdated designs still haven't been applied yet; in fact, I love finding those "time capsules" where you can encounter a name store that corporate headquarters hasn't gotten around to rebranding and retrofitting for whatever reason (lack of funds, schedule, zoning and permitting, etc).  It's similar for places that have gone out of business since they were BATted - if a Circuit City or a Washington Mutual grew in my cities, I wouldn't mind it one bit. 

As for lotting, the great thing about that is that one can use the Lot Editor and tweak and relot to their heart's content.

[DavidDHetzel 1,816]

@madhatter106. To be fair that wasn't directly directed at you. the point of that post was more or less, there's been a complete lack of low level suburban commercial buildings in recent STEX history.

26 minutes ago, madhatter106 said:

while places like Chipotle and McDonalds have certainly changed their image in regards to their physical locations for their storefronts, I know of places where their older, outdated designs still haven't been applied yet; in fact, I love finding those "time capsules" where you can encounter a name store that corporate headquarters hasn't gotten around to rebranding and retrofitting for whatever reason

Yes, but if there's no newer building, it won't be a time capsule. So far only really new commercial rebrands out there are McDonalds, Burger King, Starbucks, and KFC. (There area few others from back in the day (mid 2000s) that do look updated too)

I mean I'd love a Cowboy Hat Arby's next to a shiny new McDonalds or a Western Auto to go alongside a shiny new Advance Auto, so I'm entirely ok w/ the idea your mentioning. But the idea of a "Time Capsule" only works if there are newer version of the building available.

[T Wrecks 10,210]

@DavidDHetzel: I see your point, but there are more sides to the affair IMO. For example, not every city is supposed to represent the current situation. My preferred scenario is ficticious, but based on a vaguely Northern American style with wooden single-family homes in the rural areas and outskirts, brownstones and other W2W stuff in the cities, much Art Deco plus even older buildings - think of what the Chicago 1890 & NY 1940 tilesets are supposed to represent. If anything, I'd love to have more choice of retro retailers and groceries, but there are precious few buildings out there that fit the bill. Other people may play 1990s cities and be perfectly fine with the offering.

However, I'm not that much into this kind of realism - recreating those exact brands with the exact logos from the exact time they were used (and I lack the knowledge to be good at such a recreation anyway). I'm aiming at a generally sound and plausible overall appearance - this alone would prevent me from putting a too modern-looking retailer anywhere, not so much the question whether the company may have had a different logo these times. Of course, such details are probably easier for me to ignore because I'm simply not from the USA anyway, and I haven't grown up with the brands and seen them change. Therefore, having a WalMart with a typical 2000s branding next to a Kroger's or whatever in what you may identify as 1980s livery wouldn't bother me at all, as long as the buildings themselves look the part.

This is where @madhatter106's strategy of using purely ficticious brands is beneficial for me because as long as the buildings have the right architectural style, I can blissfully ignore the rest. All this talk about big-box retailers, however, made me wonder: Would you be up for some slightly bigger buildings such as a larger suburban grocery store or similar? Not necessarily huge, but suitable for lot sizes between 4x4 and 6x6?

[madhatter106 3,931]

8 hours ago, T Wrecks said:

 All this talk about big-box retailers, however, made me wonder: Would you be up for some slightly bigger buildings such as a larger suburban grocery store or similar? Not necessarily huge, but suitable for lot sizes between 4x4 and 6x6?

I doubt I would make anything too big - I have been wanting to do a bowling alley, and that would probably be the largest I would go.   Something utterly silly and Googie style.  There's only been one grocery store that I've wanted to BAT, and it would be a fictional brand - based on a building that I drive past a lot.

[DavidDHetzel 1,816]

@T Wrecks / @madhatter106 honestly I wouldn't care, any Suburban Commerical is good in my book. Do what ya'll feel like.

 

As for the Super Markets, you might be able to fit a smaller one in a 6x6, but my big concern would be how to fit in a realistic amount of parking.

[SimCoug 5,976]

Love the cute new CS buildings... but one is a total pill. 

[DavidDHetzel 1,816]

On 3/22/2017 at 11:44 AM, matias93 said:

It felt a bit like Simgoober releasing something new  

Reminds me of this

 

[philforhockey51 4,220]

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes, more low CS variety, yes please, and of the Madhatter quality ohh I think I'm going to be dizzy

Would you please please please consider making an additional set of smaller commercial services that are of the 2 and 3 floor variety? Something very similar or can fit in with one of no funk's,  Jingo & Blotts, with some awnings perhaps

edit note: for some reason I did not see the other posts after you posted your picture and just posted the first thing that came to my head in my excitement, sorry my comment includes a request, I'm sure you get plenty

[madhatter106 3,931]

5 hours ago, philforhockey51 said:

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes, more low CS variety, yes please, and of the Madhatter quality ohh I think I'm going to be dizzy

Would you please please please consider making an additional set of smaller commercial services that are of the 2 and 3 floor variety? Something very similar or can fit in with one of no funk's,  Jingo & Blotts, with some awnings perhaps

These are all going to be medium wealth CS.

I expect I'll be doing a bunch of two or (at max) three story ones, too.  Right now I'm focusing on the single story guys.  The trick with multi-story ones is that they're quite often multi-use zoning (commercial on the ground floor, with residential floors above) in "real life," but since SC4 doesn't handle that, we're forced to either create them as entirely commercial or entirely residential.  I suppose they could be popped into the plugin Manager as either...

[Bombardiere 591]

On 22.3.2017 at 5:48 PM, madhatter106 said:

Part of the problem for residentials (at least to me) is the varying scale that Maxis seems to employ - some of the single story houses are either way too tiny or way too large, and I can never get a good handle on what looks best.  I think it has been discussed in other threads before, but my few attempts at tackling residentials of this nature always seem to be oversized.  I guess it could just be my mind playing tricks on me, too...

Yeah, this is my "favourite" subject. Not only the Maxis, but many Batters have not been constant with the scale. I would suggest that use real world scale, or slightly larger if it is a small building or prop, as most US batters seems to be using it. There are already enough of quality customs BATs that few odd scale buildings can be forgotten.

 

Anyway, I welcome more lowrise commercial. I am in need of those. Especially of CS$ and CO$$ and CO$$$. It seems to me that most Commercial Offices are highrise skyscrapers and I want small Office too.

If I can do a request. I would love to see more lowrise for Chicago 1890 tileset. That is my personal favourite from Maxis sets and I would love to see more buildings in that style. I have recently gone through all your brilliant packs and picked those BATs, which I feel could fit in the Chicago tileset.

[madhatter106 3,931]

Working up some shapes for the multi-storey ones.  I don't think I'll be going above three stories - there are a number of dumpy two storey Maxis CS that I'm wanting to compete with, stuff like King Design, which I see too often popping up in my cities.

Let's see where they go...

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Aw yiss! These will be a welcome addition for sure! I especially like the prospect of getting a few more 1x1 and 1x2 corner buildings for those W2W areas. Hate it when always the same Maxis building pops up - especially since Maxis often made the lots such that the building faces away from the street corner it is set to grow on. That's always a great moment - you'd go for a facepalm, but you're just too tired.

[SimCoug 5,976]

2-3 story commercial!  That's the sweet spot!  I love some of the maxis stores in the chicago/NY sets in this category, but there are just not enough to give a town a varied look.  Looking forward to what you come up with!  It would be especially cool if your buildings match up with the 'storefront' props that maxis utilizes... that will ramp up the variation some.  One fantasy of mine was to learn the BAT and make a bunch more of the storefront props and add them to the maxis family.  Unfortunately my lack of free time always seems to get in the way.  

[CT14 2,486]

Looking very good! These models remind me of pre-war facelifts on late 19th century buildings...

Regarding mixed use, I agree and favor the Goofyguytpa approach of lotting it either as growable residential, or as commercial.

[madhatter106 3,931]

On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 6:00 AM, SimCoug said:

2-3 story commercial!  That's the sweet spot!  I love some of the maxis stores in the chicago/NY sets in this category, but there are just not enough to give a town a varied look.  Looking forward to what you come up with!  It would be especially cool if your buildings match up with the 'storefront' props that maxis utilizes... that will ramp up the variation some.  One fantasy of mine was to learn the BAT and make a bunch more of the storefront props and add them to the maxis family.  Unfortunately my lack of free time always seems to get in the way.  

Actually, I rather hate the Maxis storefront props that randomly pop up on the buildings; I get what they were trying to do, but I never thought they looked good.  There's been past discussion about creating BATs to match up with them (I think cogeo was exploring it a while back with some office buildings) but it requires BATting to a specific set of sizes and dimensions for LODs and prop sizes and building families and such like, which is a discipline which I frankly couldn't devote myself.  I would much rather make ten different BATs of a variety of shapes and sizes and flavors than spend the time it takes to create something that aligns to the Maxis storefronts.  Plus, I think their coloring is a bit too bright and garish - I think that's why they stick out for me and why I don't like them - you'll have a perfectly mundane looking grayish building that Maxis made, and then there's a bright orange and yellow entrance plastered on the storefront.

Now, creating a storefront prop set and either adding them to or replacing them over the Maxis set would be interesting - I think if someone did it, it would be quite an achievement, especially if they can get a uniform look to match the buildings while still keeping a good deal of variety.  Alas, it's not a project I would tackle (as the time it would take me to figure it all out, I could just create a bunch of varied BATs) but I think it might be a worthwhile endeavor for someone ambitious.

[rsc204 21,866]

28 minutes ago, madhatter106 said:

Actually, I rather hate the Maxis storefront props that randomly pop up on the buildings; I get what they were trying to do, but I never thought they looked good.

I agree, although I don't think a replacement set would look all that great either, since the size is so small there isn't much to work with. But somewhere in my archive of things to do I am working on a similar concept for small shops. The idea being a simple object in prop families being used for the store front, much like I did with my small retail store. One thing I learned from that, you need to have a good plan in place. Because all the props have to be a fixed size, so you have to be reasonably sure the buildings to work with them will be similar.

On 11/04/2017 at 7:33 AM, madhatter106 said:

I don't think I'll be going above three stories - there are a number of dumpy two storey Maxis CS that I'm wanting to compete with...

Yes, Yes, Yes!!! You have a knack for weeding out those areas of the game in need of more attention than they get. As impressive as skyscrapers can be, we've so many choices on that front, but so much less variety in the medium and sometimes small side of things. They already are looking good and I've no shortage of space for such useful additions.

[RRetail 7,912]

I honestly didn't know how you could top your already awesome BATs but you doing 2-3 stories for your small shops literally does just that!

[madhatter106 3,931]

Here are a couple of them textured.  The first is going to be a stationary store, while the second is a five-and-dime...

These have been much fun to make.