Why So Many Moderators Here?

[Propfam 2,305]

Hello everyone,

I'm don't want Mod rank now and I don't request it and I only accept the rank if the staff give me the rank. I want to ask. Why so many moderators here? And, how CorinaMarie that's joined 2016 (correct me if wrong) can obtain the rank (beside of trustness)? Is it caused by an 'moderator contest'? I don't criticize or even disagree your hard work that led to Mod rank. Again, I'm just want to ask some questions. 

Thank you.

[HayleyRenaNemeth 465]

honestly I have wondered this as well. the ratio of active users to moderators is rather high. 

[rsc204 21,866]

Perhaps because those most active on the site have proven themselves worthy of these special "powers", if you will. Also, there wouldn't be a lot of point in having a bunch of moderators that are never active, who then would do the moderation?

The thing is, this is a community site, not for profit and moderators and administrators are here to keep things ticking along. Sometimes that means trying to make the site tidier and as easy to use as possible. Other times it means fixing things like broken links or formatting on the STEX. It also means trying to help other members out and just keep things running smoothly. Occasionally we need to step in to prod those who are not acting in an appropriate manner, in the right direction. Where that doesn't work, we have a number of options to ensure those who don't conduct themselves properly can be sanctioned and only as a last resort, if necessary, weeded out of the community.

The undertones of such questions presented here, give rise to the suggestion of some sort of heavy handed club of friends, running amok. But this really couldn't be further from the truth. The role of moderators is not to bully people around, but to ensure this a positive place for people to spend time. However, the internet is full of all sorts of people, some of whom just don't fit in the internet equivalent of civilised society. Since this is not a democracy, nor a free state, we can choose who can and who can't be part of this site. Running a site is expensive, but it also takes a lot of hard work, from unpaid volunteers. Want to see the internet when it's a free-for-all? It's a messy and terrible place I can surely promise you. ST is a community, that's a very different thing and we won't allow those who seek to ruin, upset or antagonise people for fun to exist here. Ultimately moderation is about nurturing the community, not running it, after all this isn't a democracy, it's a Dirktatership, we must all ultimately answer to Dirk. But I for one think Dirk's vision if you will, is a very free place with sensible boundaries/protections, that over the years has become a beacon for supporting the city building genre. Look at all that has been accomplished here, yet without some sort of "policing", do you really think the site could have flourished? A community, much like society, needs rules to work properly, therefore it needs people to enforce them.

As for how long one must be here to become a moderator, well that really depends. There isn't a set rule I suspect, you just have to prove yourself worthy through your general conduct. I don't like to single out people, but since Corina was mentioned, I for one think she's done a fantastic job in a short time here. She's always polite and friendly, contributes a lot, much behind the scenes that you may not see and is an all-round fantastic example of community sprit. As such I can't imagine how anyone would not think she was an ideal candidate to be given moderator status.

The number of moderators is not something I really know about, I guess when the feeling is we don't have enough, we look to get more? Considering how quiet things can be around here these days, it might make the number of moderators, who coincidently are some of the more active members, seem high. But I can't imagine that's anything more than coincidence frankly.

[Propfam 2,305]

13 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

... It's too long to quote

I've seen a community that a way of 2 ways to be a staff is always active, contribute, and make an application. I think, this community doesn't need anything but trustworthiness, active (I think the member doesn't need to active 24 hour a day), and make a big contribution. I think, the moderators here is more relaxing than more need-moderated-things community, like multiplayer servers. Correct me if I wrong.

Thanks.

[rsc204 21,866]

I'd certainly like to think things were pretty relaxed around here, within some sensible parameters of course.

[APSMS 1,893]

@Chief ZDN Yes, staff selection is often done by choosing active members which have shown themselves to be helpful and friendly, and reliable at maintaining site etiquette in their posts (users who attempt to act like staff are not typically helpful).

Part of this is that an application system is not helpful with a large community that is mostly self-policing like ST. Inevitably people who apply for the job would likely be least equipped for it, though perhaps this is the case across the internet. The other part is that, as noted, Simtropolis is not a democracy, it is a service provided by the benevolent Dirktator, so demonstration of ability to work with existing site staff and admins is also necessary.

I guess you could call it deputizing all of the most helpful, active members. A lot of the mods were constantly contributing to the site before we were made mods, and continued to do this afterwards, though now with the mod tag and everything that brings with it.

At the end of the day, it more or less becomes a community of people who have shown that they're willing to devote their time to making this a productive part of the internet. If you visit SC4Devotion, you'll notice that a lot of the people that frequent there are also mods or other site staff, and again part of this is more a product of the fact that the people who add to the community and stick around are also likely to be valued for their consistency, level-headedness, and their ability to work with other community members, so the decision to add them onto the staff is a natural progression.

I admit it may seem like a large moderator presence, but this can be ignored for the most part when we're not dropping posts in Moderator Blue.

As the venerable @A Nonny Moose liked to point out, the moderator pay doubles annually. I haven't yet been a moderator long enough to confirm this personally, but I can say its true of others I've seen go before me, and its a humbling thought to think about when I realize their dedication to fostering the attitude of the community, which is one of the friendlier and more well-behaved of the internet gaming communities I've been to.

[SecretMbr_735754 2,158]

Welcome to Simtropolis ZDN (Zamboanga del Norte, province of Philippines).   Can we interest you in some city-builder games?  Some interesting graphics and arts and fun technical computer gizmos, gadgets and widgets and maybe some good humor and friendly gamer talk?  Gog is selling the games at such a low price now, it does not make sense that anybody anywhere in the world who afforded a computer or handheld device capable of accessing the internet could not also afford the game.  

[Propfam 2,305]

2 minutes ago, RandyE said:

Welcome to Simtropolis ZDN (Zamboanga del Norte, province of Philippines).   Can we interest you in some city-builder games?  Some interesting graphics and arts and fun technical computer gizmos, gadgets and widgets and maybe some good humor and friendly gamer talk?  Gog is selling the games at such a low price now, it does not make sense that anybody anywhere in the world who afforded a computer or handheld device capable of accessing the internet could not also afford the game.  

. ZDN in my username isn't mean that. ZDN is meaning acronym of my call name, Z ay d a n (spaced word mean a character of that acronym, I'm using tablet to post so bolding is 'painful'). Yes, I can buy but my mom 'prohibit' me to withdraw my balance. See my posts for giveaway suggestion. I couldn't explain it here because it can be out topic.

[SecretMbr_735754 2,158]

2 minutes ago, Chief ZDN said:

. ZDN in my username isn't mean that. ZDN is meaning acronym of my call name, Z ay d a n (spaced word mean a character of that acronym, I'm using tablet to post so bolding is 'painful'). Yes, I can buy but my mom 'prohibit' me to withdraw my balance. See my posts for giveaway suggestion. I couldn't explain it here because it can be out topic.

My second guess was ZDNet, but that seemed more unlikely.  I did read the bit about your school fund in another thread.  I can understand a parent resisting a child spending too much time watching TV or playing vid games, but you seem to be a student more focused on productivity than just passively wasting time.    Also, if your direction in school is in graphic design as you've said, then studying the CGI of a family-friendly city-builder game like in the SimCity series would seem to be a good small investment in your education.   Thanks, Zaydan   

[Fantozzi 4,068]

5 hours ago, AprilAero said:

the ratio of active users to moderators is rather high.

Not shure about that. I think every moderator has a double existence - he is a user and a moderator at the same time. One had to qualify which posts by moderators are 'moderator post' and which posts by moderators are 'normal user posts'. Or one could say: you can count moderators only as moderators when they doing a moderator job but you can't count a moderator as a moderator as long as he/she is enjoying the community like everybody else.  Downloading a file f.e. - the moderator don't moderate he's just a user.

Members having the label 'moderator' can be talked to in two ways you can talk to them like to a normal users and you can talk to them in case you need some site related service. So as long as you don't call him/her 'hey moderator!' - they aren't moderators. One could say - it's more like a button to activate, it's not an 'always on' state.

So maybe, doing a 'ratio' only by the label is wrong. One had to make the ratio by 'actions'. And then I had to say - I don't see that much 'moderator action' here compared to 'normal users action'. As - in terms of the theory of sets - 'moderators' are only a subsets of the set 'users'. They aren't 'authority only' or like in hospital where they wear special clothes to make clear - I'm working here, I'm no patient. They aren't doctors - they are patients like me but I can 'activate' those patients to become a doctor. All in all - they are quite strange, they are what may be called shapeshifters.

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

On 14/05/2017 at 3:03 AM, Chief ZDN said:

I'm don't want Mod rank now and I don't request it and I only accept the rank if the staff give me the rank. I want to ask. Why so many moderators here?

Thanks for asking.

Some most excellent, accurate and well-reasoned clarifications have already been posted.

Just to add, I also think a previous post I made helps address this question:

On 17/01/2017 at 12:50 AM, Cyclone Boom said:

Well, I do believe for any online community to flourish, there needs to be a careful balance of moderation. Too much and it can become overpowering, but too little and it quickly becomes a free-for-all. Rest assured, all new staff were considered based on their existing proven contributions to the site. It was a very thoughtful, not a random selection process. With so many helpful and valued members, finding suitable candidates is never easy. However, from an admin perspective, the idea is to always make these decisions considering the wider implications.

This is a voluntary team effort to keep Simtropolis open and enjoyable. Generally, city-building rarely encourages spiteful discussion. Although when situations do require a response, it's reassuring to have people on hand to restore calm and stability, in the fairest possible way.

Sure, we're not robots. We all make mistakes and learn from them. But as site staff (both new and old), our goal is to always strive to maintain the right balance, for the benefit of everyone in this magnificent community.

So speaking from an admin perspective, I can confirm there isn't a contest to become a moderator, and no application process (formal or informal).

We independently consider those who've proven to be consistently active, trusted and helpful in the community. With less focus on how long someone has been a member, rather more about the contributions made whilst being here. There's also no timescale for when new recruits are considered, and it's really a matter of supply vs. demand in a continuous, yet variable cycle. If there aren't seats to fill, we don't create new ones unless the demand overwhelmingly suggests otherwise.

As for the staff list, please bear in mind this currently includes previous moderators who are no longer active, or have since officially retired from duty (through mutual consent). The list will soon be updated to reflect these alterations.

At the start of the year, we felt a need to take on new staff in order to fill notable gaps in coverage. Which I must add have done a highly commendable job so far, being an enormous help to not only assist with keeping the site running smoothly the past few months, but drive it forward with momentum.

Although it does play a part, as mentioned, the role of moderator is also far from just about enforcing rules and so forth (in the fairest possible way). A big task for staff is to work and collaborate in the background on a range of projects including the Trixies & Challenges. Assisting in a broader role to help keep Simtropolis what's hopefully an enjoyable, fun and friendly city-building society to be a part of.

[Hamish 1,370]

I'll add a few more comments in addition to what's already been discussed;

The sites users are international, and we like to have a wide moderation base that can react to issues in different time zones. We don't actively seek this out when considering people for a moderators position, but it's a great benefit of having a large moderating group. 

Moderating is a voluntary position, and we understand that not everyone can dedicate their time to ST 24/7. Some can only fit in a couple nights a week, and that's fine. It's really useful to have a few eyes on the same area, so that when one of those eyes isn't looking,  we have another set that can help out.

We love having a broad range of views on issues behind the scenes. It's helpful being able to discuss issues with everyone before we take a stance on any situation so that our actions are representative of the morals of ST. It keeps all of the staff on the same page and means that we don't have dominant personalities orchestrating how the sites rules are enforced, but we have one unified stance.

Lastly, the moderating team is pretty awesome, and I wouldn't want to have any less members than we do now. We don't have much to moderate these days, not in comparison to 10 years ago, but it's awesome having this great team who like to get stuck into other projects, are always willing to give their feedback and are generally just great people 

 

[Propfam 2,305]

Sorry for turn back this topic on. If you need to separate it, it's fine.

OK, I've following the site etiquette since beginning and only 1 time broke it with 1 consequence (all contents posted need moderation). But, my reputation point is less than my posts, so I am in state of reputation deficit. I've ported the sc4ever article as Omnibus article. I have organized a event for making the better plugin downloading system happen (check my profile activity for more info). I have made replies for question and recently, I have made FAQ for SimCity 4. But, there are some posts without many responses, including the Citysim Conference. Sorry for listing my contribution. I'm not being arrogant so I allowed people to criticize and suggest to my contributions. Also, my contributions are made solely for the community, not mod rank. Are those enough for me as (may not officially) mod candidate? Or, do I need few steps to be a mod candidate (especially regarding my low rep point)?

Opinions are welcome. Thanks.

[twalsh102 1,601]

This is my opinion from the outside looking in as a non-moderator / non-administrator.

I think the gist of what the administrators and moderators have posted above is that there is no fixed list of specific requirements that must be met to be asked to be a moderator.  Nor is there ever likely to be such a "list" posted.  My guess is that the reason they won't do that is because they are not looking for people that participate on the web site in certain ways so that they can "check off the boxes" to become "eligible" to be picked as a moderator.  Another guess is that once they start thinking that someone might be "moderator material", that person isn't likely to be notified of such judgement until such time as it is decided that more moderators are needed, and that person is actually asked.  A key point is that people are asked to volunteer to be moderators only when a decision has been made that more moderators are needed, not when any specific person or group has met some nebulous set of milestones.

If you do in fact desire to be moderator at some point in the future, I feel you are shooting yourself in the foot by first stating " I'm don't want Mod rank now and I don't request it and I only accept the rank if the staff give me the rank." and then continuing to ask questions about what you need to do to be considered.  Also I would not consider it rank, but rather a position.  Rank would imply a level of power over lesser members.

I think that you are maybe trying too hard.  Participate on the website as you will, because that's what you like to do, and not so you can tout how much you are participating (which is how your last post came across). 

A reasonable question to be asked is "What do you think being a moderator would allow you to do for the community, that you can't already do?"  Probably 99% of the contributions one can make to this community don't require that one be a moderator to do so.

I highly suspect that in the minds of those who make the decisions on who they want to be moderators, how you participate, how you interact with others, and your online personality goes much farther in making those decisions, than the number of contributions you make.  Just look at the number of current members who have thousands of posts, and thousands of rep points that aren't moderators (of course some of them may have been asked, but declined).

The bottom line is that at some point when it is decided that more moderators are needed, either the staff will decide you have what they are looking for in a moderator, and ask you to volunteer, or they won't.  And they likely won't tell you why not, if asked.  And there doesn't look to be any planned course of action you can take to increase the odds in your favor.

I hope you understand that what I have said here is not in any way a judgement of you as a person or a member, nor is there any judgement involved on the types of contributions you have made , or their quality.

[TekindusT 3,809]

I still don't know what do you think we moderators and site staff in general do that you need to get there SO desperately to bring the topic up again and again...

It's been pointed out already in this thread, but let me underline: we don't get paid and we have no kind of privilege whatsoever outside this little and remote corner of the vast Internet. We are no members of any secret society (that I know of). Admins even work their butts off to keep the site running when technical hiccups occur every now and then. And the "privileges" you "enjoy" as a moderator or chat op, they are no privileges as such. You see them as privileges, I think of them as tools. You are given as a mod a series of tools in regards of forum control and you have the responsability of using them properly to keep the site civil and clean. As a fun addition, you get the word "Moderator" added under your profile pic so anyone can see why you have taken some action, but also, to denounce it to the admins in case of misuse of these tools.

Chief, as soon as I go offline from ST, I'm back to being Daniel, that dude who works at the labs in building 15 and still has problems to fill in some work related forms. Or whatever people think of me. Very few people in real life know about my ST activities, and the ones who know, couldn't care less about them. What matters, after all, is who you are in real life. And once the computer is off, we almighty moderators are back to being Daniel, the engineer; or Matías, the political science student; or Tim, the journalist and radio commentator; just to name a couple of us.

Hope this post can help you put things in perspective and help you understand why do you want to be a moderator so much. And sure you know that, but as reminder on the site guidelines:

15. Staff Positions
The site administrators pick only trusted, active, and helpful members to fill vacant positions. Staff positions are never obtained by asking or campaigning for them.

[Propfam 2,305]

On 4/21/2018 at 4:47 PM, TekindusT said:

I still don't know what do you think we moderators and site staff in general do that you need to get there SO desperately to bring the topic up again and again...

It's been pointed out already in this thread, but let me underline: we don't get paid and we have no kind of privilege whatsoever outside this little and remote corner of the vast Internet. We are no members of any secret society (that I know of). Admins even work their butts off to keep the site running when technical hiccups occur every now and then. And the "privileges" you "enjoy" as a moderator or chat op, they are no privileges as such. You see them as privileges, I think of them as tools. You are given as a mod a series of tools in regards of forum control and you have the responsability of using them properly to keep the site civil and clean. As a fun addition, you get the word "Moderator" added under your profile pic so anyone can see why you have taken some action, but also, to denounce it to the admins in case of misuse of these tools.

Chief, as soon as I go offline from ST, I'm back to being Daniel, that dude who works at the labs in building 15 and still has problems to fill in some work related forms. Or whatever people think of me. Very few people in real life know about my ST activities, and the ones who know, couldn't care less about them. What matters, after all, is who you are in real life. And once the computer is off, we almighty moderators are back to being Daniel, the engineer; or Matías, the political science student; or Tim, the journalist and radio commentator; just to name a couple of us.

Hope this post can help you put things in perspective and help you understand why do you want to be a moderator so much. And sure you know that, but as reminder on the site guidelines:

15. Staff Positions
The site administrators pick only trusted, active, and helpful members to fill vacant positions. Staff positions are never obtained by asking or campaigning for them.

The cause I flag Moderators, Admin etc as rank and privilege because my background. I'm coming from a Minecraft server that "Moderator" & "Admin" assigned as rank, not a tool. The admin even use the Creative Mode to get items for them. It's not fair. Even, the "economy" isn't economy anymore because the player can sell items into thin air and get money from the thin air. Also, the items obtained from the world called "Resources" reset monthly. So, the rich becoming so rich and the poor can be rich too. But, to be fair, the server adjust the price manually. This is done without notification even in the front of the "shop" (it should be called admin shop because of "sell into thin air") so the player protested against the price.

Thanks.

[CorinaMarie 29,884]

9 hours ago, chfzdn said:

I'm coming from a Minecraft server that "Moderator" & "Admin" assigned as rank, not a tool.

I'm not familiar with that setup, but here Moderators tend to be those peeps who have been actively helping others day in and day out as guides to knowledge or techniques. They get the extra tools to move or merge threads which are used to maintain consistency and ease of finding things. Administrators simply have a few more tools. For both types of staff there are no extra file related privileges.  We have the same access to downloading files from the STEX as any member.

[Fantozzi 4,068]

Sometimes internet gives you the illusion, you can build up community, a social network everywhere. But they are just virtual and often worse: commercial fakes..

Instead you have to find your friends always where you are, not where you want to be.

This relationship is explained by the story of the soldier and the princess:

 

Basically you're doing like the soldier, @chfzdn you want to conquer the princess heart because she seems the most beautiful, most respectable, the most glorious treasure. And all the tasks she gives to you, you will execute lighthearted - just in the hope to gain her heart.

But the princesses always will mary princes - and they will always only play with your heart and your faithfullness. And all the gain will be - you will be her fool, her pet or toy. 

You must find a bride that suits you - a bride that wants you the same as you want her.

And that's the same on all social networks - don't go for fame, for those people on the balconies looking down at you, find your friends amongst the common people. 

Now they tell you, you have to become a prince first. And you do everything they tell you is necessary for a prince. But believe me, they will always find new tasks ... as you and me - we will never be a prince. 

And believe me, dancing with the maidservant in the yard is much better than crying for the princess up on the balcony.