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Cities: Skylines - "Mass Transit" Disucssion

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Dev Diary #4 has been posted, showing off the Monorail!

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Posting on behalf of Karoliina, who is travelling at the moment.

So, the monorails. I’ve written about all the other new public transport systems, so they are the last remaining one. The type in Mass Transit is an elevated monorail, basically meaning that it goes on tracks elevated with pylons. This allows the monorail to operate on top on roads and on water, given lots of options on placement and making sure it does not need much free ground.

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The basics of the monorail are much like the metro. Build stations, connect them with tracks and then mark lines. The line will automatically start operating once it is looping. What separates the monorail from the metro, is that it can be built on top of roads. A new avenue type has been added with monorail tracks going on top of the section between lanes. This avenue is just like a regular road, so that you can easily upgrade existing roads to use it. While the monorail has stand-alone stations that work just like stations for any other transport type, the new and awesome thing is the station type you can place on top of a road. A lot of space is saved by building on the roads.

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The monorail station comes with a piece of road, so you may need to remove some road or plan the stations very early. When you have chosen the spot where you want to build, place the station there and connect it with both roads and tracks to make it operational. The tracks also work without a road, so you can creatively connect sections of stand-alone track and sections of track on top of an avenue. You can even build on water, making outstanding scenic routes and saving space on land.

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The monorail can turn at the end of the line, so you don’t need to construct loops in the ends. A station is enough, the monorail train will automatically change direction if that is how the line loops. You do need to mark each individual stop, but this allows you to also skip stops if that is what works best for your line. The train does not need to stop on a station every time it passes a station.

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I personally find the elevated monorail one of the most interesting transport types in the game. Not only does it look cool on both tracks and stations, and you can also peek into the stations to see the trains stopping and even see the timetable screens, but it is also very useful. Fast means of transportation that takes up only minimum space and can be built on top of existing infrastructure, as well as in stand-alone sections, and mixing these freely gives a lot of possibilities on how to create just the type of monorail system that fits your city.

I can’t wait to see all the wonderful and weird monorail systems you will built!

Cheers
Karoliina

 

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I've seen many of their hub stations in the last stream. Many have integrated metro stations, for example the two big railway stations or the one with two railway tracks and two monorail tracks (all parallel). I guess many people will like them as they are. I think they are all a bit huge, but well, it is as it is.

Those streams are still hard to watch. To see those Paradox people struggle for ages when they build a simple electricity connection or a tunnel is a bit disheartening. No wonder that they cannot give any useful feedback.

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7 hours ago, Cork said:

So those monorails function as an elevated subway and replace it? Just like in Cim1.....  Hopefully it won't have low capacities as seen in that game. It ruins the fun....

Even for the CiM games, especially the second one, you needed mods to replace the ridiculously low passenger counts on the vehicles. It's a CO thing. I hope there will be some replacement coming up after IPT will get completely obsolete with the next update.

Let's see what passenger numbers they choose for those big ferries. I think they said it will be less than a bus, which would be ridiculous for these big ships.

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@Turjan: I don't think IPT will become obsolete. It will still be necessary if you want to set a discrete number of trains to a train line, and it'll also be necessary if you want to choose which models to use on a specific line.

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1 minute ago, wasmic said:

@Turjan: I don't think IPT will become obsolete. It will still be necessary if you want to set a discrete number of trains to a train line, and it'll also be necessary if you want to choose which models to use on a specific line.

Setting the number of trains per line will be part of the free core game update. You still need a mod for choosing a specific vehicle though. Also, I did not want to imply that IPT becomes completely redundant, but that it looks abandoned (the creator hasn't logged into Steam in ages).

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39 minutes ago, Turjan said:

Setting the number of trains per line will be part of the free core game update. You still need a mod for choosing a specific vehicle though. Also, I did not want to imply that IPT becomes completely redundant, but that it looks abandoned (the creator hasn't logged into Steam in ages).

Why would anyone integrate train per line to game but leave vehicle selection outside ? 

It's like integrating BP's Sub Buildings Enabler as a half mod.... oh wait. 

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29 minutes ago, R3V0 said:

Why would anyone integrate train per line to game but leave vehicle selection outside ?

I guess you know the answer: There's only one model per traffic mode in the game, which means you don't need vehicle selection without mods.

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6 minutes ago, Turjan said:

I guess you know the answer: There's only one model per traffic mode in the game, which means you don't need vehicle selection without mods.

But.... we do use mods for vehicles, isn't it interesting to think for their end that people will stick their default vehicles ? CS is CS because mods happened, most people will use monorails with mods anyway, why not simplify things for modders and add vehicle selection when you're at it ? 

Hell, I already made 2 monorail trains ready to release lol 

*sigh*

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You don't have to convince me that this would be useful. In this regard, I fully agree. But you know their philosophy: Keep the game as simple as possible. And as the base game doesn't have different vehicles for the same public transport or service, the base game doesn't need a vehicle selection feature. And as the user has to use the Workshop anyway to add some choice of vehicles, he can also use the Workshop to make the selection happen. That's their logic, and I don't see it change.

Maybe, Transport Lines Manager will pick up the rest of IPT's functions (without the unbuncher), but it probably also needs an overhaul. And IPT's unbuncher is preferable, as you can switch it off per line (useful if you have only one vehicle on a line).

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@Turjan: the update won't allow you to set a discrete amount of vehicles per line. Unless I'm mistaken, it only allows you to set how large a portion of the overall budget is allocated to which line, meaning that if you increase the overall budget, all lines will get additional vehicles - unless you manually go through every single line and modify all of them. The method used by IPT is far preferrable to this.

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Oh, does it work this way? I had only seen it in action with the blimps, and there the number chosen seemed to match the number of the blimps. That may have been by chance though.

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Dev Diary #5 has been posted, showing off Transit Hubs and intersection settings!

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Ever wanted your citizens could easily switch between transportation types? With new hub buildings, now they can! There are several types: Ferry Bus Hub for ferries and buses, Monorail Bus Hub for monorails and buses, End-of-Line station and multi-platform station for trains that also have a metro stop, and the ultimate hub which has train, monorail and metro stops. The idea behind the hubs is that placing two stops or stations close by to allow citizens to transfer wastes time and space, so having a hub with several types of transport on one lot is very efficient. When citizens can switch transports easily on the same lot, they do not need to find their way to another building, possibly hindering traffic while doing so, as they might need to cross roads. You don’t even need to connect all transport types the hub supports, it can be used as a regular stop on station and you can keep the other transport options for the future. The bus hubs support many lines on one hub building. Both the Monorail Bus Hub and the Ferry Bus Hub have several platforms for different lines to stop at, so your buses don’t have to line up to queue to one stop.

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Monorail Bus Hub

The new railway buildings, the end-of-line and multiplatform stations, have the possibility for different lines to you different platforms. This, combined with the new setting for accepting or not accepting intercity trains, gives much more control over train traffic. No more trains lining up to get to a station, they can have their own lanes! And as there are also one-way train tracks, there are even more possibilities.

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Multiplatform train station

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Trains on many platforms

And my absolute favourite features: yield rules and choosing if intersections have traffic lights! Before it was just that whoever went first in an intersection got to go. Now you can have a say in this. When in the Routes infoview, when you zoom in on an intersection, small buttons pop up. The center one controls if the intersection has traffic lights or not. If traffic lights are off, you can place stop signs to choose who yields to whom. Basically all traffic coming from behind a stop sign needs to actually stop before proceeding to the intersection. I have found this to be especially useful in roundabouts (well, that is kind of expected, as the game roundabouts used to not work like IRL roundabouts) when you can let the busiest street feeding the roundabout enter freely and have others yield. Or when you want a main street, where traffic has right of way, and all intersecting roads yield. For this, there’s a shortcut, because it simply is not fun if you have a very long road and would need to go and click on each stop sign at each intersection. When you click on the road name, you can not only re-name it, but also set it as a priority road. This automatically sets stop signs to every road joining the selected road. By turning priority road off, all signs are removed, but you can also set priority on and then just go and remove a couple of signs if you feel that helps traffic best. The road will no longer be a priority road, meaning that the setting is off, but all of the signs set by the setting are still there and you can adjust them manually.

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Yield rules in an intersection

If managing intersections is not your thing, you don’t ever need to touch the intersection rules. But if you are like me and can spend hours on adjusting the road network to get the traffic to work perfectly (though there’s always something to tweak, as the city needs change with aging citizens), you might really love this feature. The changes are instant, so you can try different combinations, then observe how they work, and adjust. The traffic reacts fast.

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The naming of Cool Street

The naming of Cool Street

And as I mentioned naming roads, that is also a thing now! Every road gets assigned a name when the update is installed. If you want to change a name, just click on it, the logic is the same as with everything else in the game. Clicking on the name in the info window lets you rename basically anything it the game. If for some reason your road is cut up or the system does not understand what you need to be one road, you can adjust it by choosing Adjust road in the info panel and redefining what is considered to be one road.

Road names, intersection settings, hub buildings… I do hope you are as excited for this expansion as I am!

PS. Try naming a road Steve. It’s fun, I promise!


Cheers,
Karoliina

Lead Designer of Cities: Skylines

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Attached file of Train-Metro-Monorail hub

 

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While I appreciate the principal idea of hub stations, I am not completely sure whether I will have any use for those that have been presented so far. They are all rather big, and somehow I can never bring myself to use a bus hub with 12 platforms when I only have use for 4 (well, Avanya and Senfkorn to the rescue). We will see how the train stations work. I don't need six platforms there, either, and I hope they didn't do anything like, if you allow outside traffic, every platform will spawn trains.

Anyway, I guess I will know soon enough how this works. I even won't have to force myself to wait till the mods are adapted, as I'm going on a trip just on release day and can hope that everything will be fixed when I return.

Still no price info, as far as I can see. Will they push it to €20? Even higher? Oh, $12.99. Thanks, Dezelles.

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15 minutes ago, Turjan said:

While I appreciate the principal idea of hub stations, I am not completely sure whether I will have any use for those that have been presented so far. They are all rather big, and somehow I can never bring myself to use a bus hub with 12 platforms when I only have use for 4 (well, Avanya and Senfkorn to the rescue). We will see how the train stations work. I don't need six platforms there, either, and I hope they didn't do anything like, if you allow outside traffic, every platform will spawn trains.

Anyway, I guess I will know soon enough how this works. I even won't have to force myself to wait till the mods are adapted, as I'm going on a trip just on release day and can hope that everything will be fixed when I return.

Still no price info, as far as I can see. Will they push it to €20? Even higher?

I am still amazed that they are so thrilled to announce, that trains can STOP AT MULTIPLE PLATFORMS WOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Good lord, we have it, like for years now. I do appreciate the fact they are integrating most used mods (MTSE this case), but still I don't understand why are they showcasing something which was already here as a mod. 

I still don't understand the purpose of hubs either. Way too many buildings, still doesn't give a flexibility to the user; what if i want to have 1 mono and 3 train connection ? or 4 mono and 2 train what will the game offer then ?

Modular stations, yes. 

Prefabricated  "transportation hubs" ? Just a waste of RAM. 

On a completly unrelated note, I will release my modular station before the release of Mass Transit it seems. 

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15 minutes ago, R3V0 said:

I am still amazed that they are so thrilled to announce, that trains can STOP AT MULTIPLE PLATFORMS WOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Good lord, we have it, like for years now. I do appreciate the fact they are integrating most used mods (MTSE this case), but still I don't understand why are they showcasing something which was already here as a mod.

I'm reading the threads on the Paradox forums from time to time, and you won't have any trouble finding current threads where people insist on getting multiple platform stations from CO. They don't want mods, they want "official quality" content (I just read this in one of today's posts). I can understand this attitude with regard to game mechanics, although CO's history of actual implementation is decidedly half-assed. For items? Yes, there are some that show, let's say, more enthusiasm than capability, but there are also tons of assets that are at least CO quality, if not higher.

15 minutes ago, R3V0 said:

I still don't understand the purpose of hubs either. Way too many buildings, still doesn't give a flexibility to the user; what if i want to have 1 mono and 3 train connection ? or 4 mono and 2 train what will the game offer then ?

I guess someone who knows the code better than I may be able to correct me, but Cims in former CO games considered walking distances between stops, and hubs had an effective distance of zero.

15 minutes ago, R3V0 said:

Modular stations, yes. 

Prefabricated  "transportation hubs" ? Just a waste of RAM.

Yup. I hope I will be able to exclude some from loading with the Loading Screen Mod.

15 minutes ago, R3V0 said:

On a completly unrelated note, I will release my modular station before the release of Mass Transit it seems. 

I'm really curious how this one will turn out ;).

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1 hour ago, Turjan said:

Still no price info, as far as I can see. Will they push it to €20? Even higher?

12,99€ => https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/cities-skylines-mass-transit-release-date-announced-and-new-awesome-trailer.1013144/#post-22668188

1 hour ago, R3V0 said:

Good lord, we have it, like for years now. I do appreciate the fact they are integrating most used mods (MTSE this case), but still I don't understand why are they showcasing something which was already here as a mod. 

BloodyPenguin had explained that the multitrack was already in the base of the game. => http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=820157360

1 hour ago, R3V0 said:

I still don't understand the purpose of hubs either. Way too many buildings, still doesn't give a flexibility to the user; what if i want to have 1 mono and 3 train connection ? or 4 mono and 2 train what will the game offer then ?

Modular stations, yes.

I totally agree with the modular. But I think compatibility would be much more effective. Many stations in the world have retained their original building which a modern extension has been added.

gare-strasbourg-wifi.jpg

Gare-Marseille-St-Charles-7.jpg

e1414f7b2.jpg

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Here is another vid this one telling us the 5 ways Mass Transit makes CSL even better..  One very cool thing that was probably a mod, but is that you can now track the route each vehicle takes, and they must of taken onboard the Traffic Manager President Edition as you will have loads more control over each intersection..  Also emergency vehicles will weave through traffic to get where they need to go just like what you see in real life but still requires the player to make a proper road network to ease congestion spots.. All in all can't wait for this DLC..

 

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There's some wonderful editions coming, but I wouldn't say TM:PE has mostly been implemented. Besides toggling traffic lights and setting stop signs the game still doesn't do what the mod does. :)

I also really really wish they had added road segment length to their road tool - and kept it showing angles when angle snapping is off. Their tool looks really neat, but I just really wish it had those numbers showing so I could get rid of the mods.

Super interested to see how much the updated emergency vehicle AI will help! :D

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I wonder when it will drop. I'm enthusiastic, but at the same time I'm looking at my city as if something really big and bad is about to happen to it. An inevitable un-natural Disaster, if you will. It's ok tho.. the price of progress. I hope my favorite mods will be swiftly updated by the die-hard modder coders that have brought this game to life. 

I think it would be better PR if these "new features" that have been in mods forever were spoken about plainly, and the modders names were used specifically and often. This sandbox environment is fantastic and CO gets full credit for creating it, but and as much credit should be given to community modders as possible, where credit is due. It's an interesting relationship between developer and community. I feel like we're on the cutting edge of something that is really beautiful -- a huge crowd-sourced project with significant contributions from all over the world. Pretty amazing when you think about it. *:thumb:

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It should be here at 15.00 CEST. :)

The mods they looked at actually got credited back when they announced the features - see this post. They've only credited the mods and modders they looked into and not for example the Road Namer mod as that was a feature on their wishlist from before the mod was created. Honestly it also seems like we're much more aware of mods and modders than the devs - ofc they keep somewhat up to date with mods for the game, but we're the "experts" more so than they are. :)

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On 2017-5-10 at 8:20 PM, Turjan said:

I'm reading the threads on the Paradox forums from time to time, and you won't have any trouble finding current threads where people insist on getting multiple platform stations from CO. They don't want mods, they want "official quality" content (I just read this in one of today's posts). I can understand this attitude with regard to game mechanics, although CO's history of actual implementation is decidedly half-assed. For items? Yes, there are some that show, let's say, more enthusiasm than capability, but there are also tons of assets that are at least CO quality, if not higher.

I guess someone who knows the code better than I may be able to correct me, but Cims in former CO games considered walking distances between stops, and hubs had an effective distance of zero.

Yup. I hope I will be able to exclude some from loading with the Loading Screen Mod.

I'm really curious how this one will turn out ;).

Released.... and bam

Quay Anarchy, RICO and Transport Line Rendering mods are gone 

 

Let the fun begin for modders who has to update their mods/assets 

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81 tiles, Loading Screen Mod, and Quay Anarchy are the only mods that I use that failed.  Keep in mind I avoided NeXT, IPT, and various other network related mods in anticipation for this update.  Most of my mods are either related to appearance, quality of life (anarchy mods, UI mods, etc), or sim fixes/enhancements.  I donated $10 to bloody penguin and encouraged others to do so as well.  81 tiles is really the only one that severely cripples my style of game play.  Sometimes it takes an update like this to make us realize how important the work of the community is to our own styles of game play.  They deserve a tip every now and then.

Edit* I found that the Loading Screen Mod that I was subscribed too failed to load my assets.  I posted to the test version of the mod as well but didn't try it as it was parallel with the other mod at the time of my posting.  CO probably changed a way that they loaded the assets, and the Loading Screen Mod's asset loading methods became broken.  It is a very useful mod to me, and hopefully it will not be difficult to fix the issue.

 

Edit #2* I haven' tested the mods that didn't fail in game.  I just listed the ones that apparently failed at startup.

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So far the only mods that I have running since the others did some freaky stuff to the game..

So far working is:

Eyecandy Mod which is working..

CSL Music Mod and all the music packs are working..

Turned off everything else as had a case of houses building and then demolishing and power not working..

One big change I have noticed is that the water area of effect and the power area of effect are no more..  Makes placing water and power more interesting..

Also Rico is very much broken..One other thing not sure if this was in game or not but there is now an warning icon next to assets that may affect the game..

At least this DLC has given me an excuse to do some asset house cleaning..

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1 hour ago, TransitAuthority said:

I'm actually leaving my game open until I'm sure that everything has been fixed and I can restart. I've had it open for a day for today, so hopefully nothing will happen.

Yesterday I changed the update settings of cs to "update this game only at start". And before I start the game. I activate the offline mode for steam.

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5 minutes ago, schokoladeneis 1 said:

Yesterday I changed the update settings of cs to "update this game only at start". And before I start the game. I activate the offline mode for steam.

I thought I tried that for ND but when I started C:S it didn't give me any mods. I could boot just fine into C:S w/o ND but got a vanilla experience.  Has this changed?

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