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Tim The Terrible

Cities: Skylines - "Mass Transit" Disucssion

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I must say that it looks pretty good, that monorail hub looked pretty nice. Just a pity of those clipping ferries... I do hope they fix that (although I rather doubt it :(). I also think they make way to much bus platforms at those hubs, that was already the case with the bus station and it seems the monorail and ferry hub have it too. And I'm not sure how to think about the new public transport options and the new roads; I like that they now will be officially implemented and supported, but I do think they should give credit to the modders that first provided us with these new (and rather needed) options. 

Overall, I am rather excited about this new expansion. I just hope the release will be soon :LlamaLeap:

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Is it bad that I'm hoping the release will not be soon?  I'm expecting it to break all my mods and be quite a lot of work (tbh mostly on modders' shoulders not my own) to get everything back together.  I'm already recording my YT series ahead of schedule to be ready for it...

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@hitzu Nowhere did I mention marketing "fluff". We're talking about an ineffective presentation that is part of CO/Paradox current strategy. It was ineffective, useless- a waste of time, human and financial resources that could be improved 100% with effective evaluation- identifying problems that can easily be addressed by a few simple steps when preparing/planning for future events such as deploying those members of staff who are the most effective communicators (not always the developer).

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2 hours ago, mutton noir said:

@hitzu Nowhere did I mention marketing "fluff". We're talking about an ineffective presentation that is part of CO/Paradox current strategy. It was ineffective, useless- a waste of time, human and financial resources that could be improved 100% with effective evaluation- identifying problems that can easily be addressed by a few simple steps when preparing/planning for future events such as deploying those members of staff who are the most effective communicators (not always the developer).

Holy crap, you've made posts like this both here and on the Paradox forums... why are you so angry? 

Yeah, the presentation was pretty inefficient, but I'm pretty sure the streams were a spur of the moment thing at a convention, and weren't planned. It could have been better, but I was happy to get at least a tease of the new content when as far as we knew the only information we would get would be from very spaced out dev diaries.

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I watched one of the videos when they demonstrated the cable cars. These look great, but I have major concern. You need a road for the end point!? This is crazy in my eyes, as the whole point of having a cable car is because a road can't go there. For example in the French Alps they have cable cars with no roads with the end points. I hope this can be fixed. 

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13 hours ago, barcasam7 said:

I watched one of the videos when they demonstrated the cable cars. These look great, but I have major concern. You need a road for the end point!? This is crazy in my eyes, as the whole point of having a cable car is because a road can't go there. For example in the French Alps they have cable cars with no roads with the end points. I hope this can be fixed. 

I don't think it will be: in the video they said you will need a road anyway, as the cable cars cannot deliver goods. And if you want to build a mountaintop village with only houses, those houses also need a road connection, so I don't think cable cars without a road connection would actually be necessary. But maybe a modder will make it for you?

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In principle, I like the idea of this expansion, as I love the transport play, but I'm always somewhat disappointed, how lazily CO implements these things. One example would be the one-direction tram system that still needs trams with doors on both sides from Snowfall, which is pretty much the only situation that usually doesn't exist in real-life, except on mixed systems (which this isn't). Here we now have blimps that wobble around but stay otherwise horizontal, but the cable cars actually bend always in a way that they stay perfectly parallel to the cable, which looks very silly on steep lines. Not sure whether that is fixable for a modder, but this shouldn't be necessary.

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18 hours ago, Giveaway412 said:

Holy crap, you've made posts like this both here and on the Paradox forums... why are you so angry? 

Why do you assume the OP is angry? Because they don't like what they saw? Frankly I agree that what took 40m to explain could and probably should have been shown to us in about 10m tops. At one point you can't even see the information they are trying to show off because the video window totally blocks the feed. They only notice when someone on chat tells them. So basically the point that this was done very poorly is a valid one, pointing it out doesn't make you an angry person. I suggest perhaps you have a problem with someone criticising something you like, because maybe you are too sensitive to handle it?

Once again I feel the need to point out that this forum is not just for happy thoughts, it's for discussion, good or bad. Can we please stop treating those who dislike something like they should be banished. If you have a counter point with some substance, great, let us know what you think. But I don't see any point in your comment whatsoever. Did it occur to you that some of us feel passionately enough to want things to be better? Rather than bash those people for their opinions, join in the debate or simply leave them be.

Moving on...

Overall I can see there isn't a whole load of substance shown there for what I had expected to be a major update. The free stuff is all nice and well, but nothing modders haven't already given us. I understand why the traffic functions (stoplights/stop signs) were dumbed down from Traffic ++, but that just makes me want to use the mod instead. Great to see the problems with buses (all bunched together on the route and overflowing stops) are still there! :( This is a concern for me, it's great to have new transport options, but I'd really like the existing ones to work properly. The monorail hub looks fantastic, not that I'll be having access to that anytime soon, I can't justify the cost of the expansion for that alone. It's great that the bus stops are integrated, I don't actually think there's too many, I love to have many lines. The problem I see is that once more the underlying faults with the bus networks will bork the whole thing, at least visually. That's another thing I don't particularly like in CS, everything works (sims get to where they are going), but the visual representation of them shows a broken system of chaos. I'd love to build fluid multi-modal transport systems and watch them all working together. In theory you can do that, but in practise it never seems to work right.

Blimps and Cable cars seem like very niche addons to me. I can't really see how they are anything more than eye-candy for the most part. The reason why the latter needs road access is frankly quite obvious to me. Every building in the game must be serviced by garbage trucks, hearses and other service vehicles. So without a road, how would it work? Ferries are somewhat more useful, but again given the size of cities, this is not really something I feel will be hugely important. Perhaps for linking out of the way islands/areas more efficiently. Even so, once more there will need to be bridges, so it's all a moot point for me. I get the feeling a lot of this content is designed to get traffic off the roads, presumably so the service vehicles stand a chance of running on more efficient routes? But I'm pretty underwhelmed by the update for the most part.

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4 hours ago, Pluispixel said:

I don't think it will be: in the video they said you will need a road anyway, as the cable cars cannot deliver goods. And if you want to build a mountaintop village with only houses, those houses also need a road connection, so I don't think cable cars without a road connection would actually be necessary. But maybe a modder will make it for you?

Not all cable cars lead to houses etc, some can be view points. E.g. the one I mentioned Mont Blanc in the French Alps or the one in Hong Kong. It would actually limit where you could use a cable car if you need a road at the end, as you might not be able to create a road up the top of a mountain.

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56 minutes ago, barcasam7 said:

Not all cable cars lead to houses etc, some can be view points. E.g. the one I mentioned Mont Blanc in the French Alps or the one in Hong Kong. It would actually limit where you could use a cable car if you need a road at the end, as you might not be able to create a road up the top of a mountain.

You're of course right, there are many places where the cable cars don't have a road, and it would be nice if CO made a cable car endpoint without a road. I would however understand if they didn't do it, because in terms of gameplay it wouldn't be used. Cims simply don't go to a nice mountaintop to enjoy the view, at least not if there's no building or park there. And well, CO has to do as if there's gameplay at all in Skylines (oops, that's maybe a bit too much salt? :blush:)

By the way, I do think they (or maybe a few helpful modders?) should make a smaller kind of cable car station, for ski resorts.

 

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First off: they require road acces in order to be serviced by city services like police and garbage trucks just like any other transport facility. It's a part of the game until you use mods that eliminate this.

If you use mods to eliminate city services, you wouldn't mind to use MoveIt! either to relocate your station anywhere in the map regardless the road connectivity.

And lastly: cable cars in the game are inspired by the latinoamerican practice as a real city transportation mode, not by recreational and touristic attractions used in ski resorts. There are real examples of cable systems in cities across the South America to reach some densly populated districts on the hills where the metro would be too expencive and where is no room for on ground facilities.

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21 hours ago, Giveaway412 said:

Holy crap, you've made posts like this both here and on the Paradox forums... why are you so angry? 

Yeah, the presentation was pretty inefficient, but I'm pretty sure the streams were a spur of the moment thing at a convention, and weren't planned. It could have been better, but I was happy to get at least a tease of the new content when as far as we knew the only information we would get would be from very spaced out dev diaries.

Angry?  I look forward to new content. I love this game, warts and all. I was looking forward to seeing what the expansion contained. The presentation was BAD- Nothing angry or controversial in pointing that out!

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Perhaps a discussion about HOW these videos can be improved would be better (and prob better on the official forums actually). Do we just want 10 min showing off the new stuff? Is the issue here they're building the city up (which many, if not all, of us know how to do)? Should they split it up and do a preview and an interview seperately? There are many options and I'm sure with the size of our community we totally won't all agree. But perhaps we could get somewhere productive and actually tell CO/Paradox what could make these videos more enjoyable for us.

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Well @Avanya, here are my ideas to make those videos better: not a 40 minutes livestream building a *cough cough* mediocre *cough* vanilla city, but like in the second part of the video, a city that's already built (preferably a nice city, but hey, anything goes I guess) with everything you want to highlight in there, then you can cut out the boring city building. I also would like it if those videos were a bit shorter, not necessarily 10 minutes, but actually as short as possible without cutting out interesting information. For the rest, I don't think the 'interview' idea is bad, this way the viewers can actually see how the new transport modes work in the game itself.

I do think they should make their trailers a bit more interesting. I'm not actually fond of that old man and his strange rimes.

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If you think this video was bad you have to watch the "natural disasters" dlc video.

It was even worse. The host weren't prepared at all. cKnoor, the guy at the right is not really interested in this game. They did not know how the new disasters worked. And the city was always zoomed out.

In the comments a lot of viewers criticized the video but as we can see they improved not a lot since then.

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4 hours ago, rsc204 said:

 I suggest perhaps you have a problem with someone criticising something you like, because maybe you are too sensitive to handle it?

...

Rather than bash those people for their opinions, join in the debate or simply leave them be.

The hypocrisy is strong here...

But, regardless, I do apologize. I suppose my comments were unwarranted, I was simply surprised when I saw the comments on the Paradox forums, came here and found the same comments made by the same guy. It just came across as petty to me.

I do agree though, that the presentations were bad. Paradox would do well to get more professional streamers and organizers to reveal content. I simply think some gratitude is warranted as we weren't supposed to get any streams at all and would still be waiting another week for a dev diary to get even a smidgen of new info. Well, maybe not gratitude, but it seems a lot to be so vehemently complaining about when it literally has no effect on the content of the expansion itself. 

Regardless, I meant no offense to mutton noir or anybody else. And, as you requested, I will join in the debate.

4 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Overall I can see there isn't a whole load of substance shown there for what I had expected to be a major update. The free stuff is all nice and well, but nothing modders haven't already given us. I understand why the traffic functions (stoplights/stop signs) were dumbed down from Traffic ++, but that just makes me want to use the mod instead.

I'm sure Colossal Order does not want to completely devalue a large overhaul mod, nor introduce a gratuitous amount of micromanagement to the basegame. They're merely introducing some of the smaller fixes and features for free, and crediting the modders who inspired them.

4 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Great to see the problems with buses (all bunched together on the route and overflowing stops) are still there! :( This is a concern for me, it's great to have new transport options, but I'd really like the existing ones to work properly.

I agree here, it would be nice for there to be a delay between bus spawning. It's not too big of an issue for me, I find the general functionality remains the same and the problem fixes itself over time. Maybe you don't have enough stops/traffic lights on your routes? The frequent stops could help them space out.

4 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Blimps and Cable cars seem like very niche addons to me. I can't really see how they are anything more than eye-candy for the most part. The reason why the latter needs road access is frankly quite obvious to me. Every building in the game must be serviced by garbage trucks, hearses and other service vehicles. So without a road, how would it work? Ferries are somewhat more useful, but again given the size of cities, this is not really something I feel will be hugely important. Perhaps for linking out of the way islands/areas more efficiently. Even so, once more there will need to be bridges, so it's all a moot point for me. I get the feeling a lot of this content is designed to get traffic off the roads, presumably so the service vehicles stand a chance of running on more efficient routes? But I'm pretty underwhelmed by the update for the most part

I think the cable cars are not designed to provide sole access to a mountain, but rather ease the traffic, as you suggested. Wide six-lane roads and highways don't look good running up mountains, most people use dirt roads, two-lane roads and will probably use the upcoming two-way highway as well. With the cable cars, pedestrian traffic can be seriously reduced on these roads, allowing them to primarily service industry trucks and the like. The same can be said with Ferries and islands, with bridges servicing trucks while the passengers use ferries. Not to mention, ferries have been a highly-requested feature from Simcity 4.

The blimps... I see a lot of complaints because blimps aren't a realistic form of transport but I see C:S as a spiritual successor to Simcity. Simcity wasn't completely realistic in the past and I don't see why Skylines shouldn't be the same. I will quite enjoy using them for my dystopian alternate reality.

All in all... I'm surprised that people think the update is underwhelming. This expansion contains quite a bit more content than After Dark or Natural Disasters, and definitely a lot more than Snowfall! Many of the features are highly requested and the tweaks that have been inspired by mods will improve the game's complete-ness and longetivity. All in all, I think this expansion will be very satisfying.

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2 hours ago, Giveaway412 said:

The same can be said with Ferries and islands, with bridges servicing trucks while the passengers use ferries. Not to mention, ferries have been a highly-requested feature from Simcity 4.

That's true I suppose, although it is a bit of a pity... I would like ferries to also supply far-off islands, where a cargo harbour would be overkill. But you can't have it all I suppose. And maybe I'll find some nice small harbour with matching ships on the workshop.

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As for usefulness of the new traffic options, I'm definitely looking forward to the new additions. In the CiM games, monorails were superior to pretty much any transport mode, except the cash cow metro. They were cheap and off the road, which is always a plus. Let's see how this will play out here, although I guess it doesn't matter much, given that buses work well enough in this game. Regarding the vehicle bunching, I've been using unbunchers for ages now, mostly the one that's built into IPT (I'm a bit sad to see this mod will probably be dead soon).

On the map where I built the different iterations of Cagayan, ferries should work nicely, given I have an extensive waterway network more or less ready for use. I'll probably upgrade the city canal, too. The cable cars are also something I always wanted to have for that map, as it's split into a valley section and a section high up on a rim. Building roads and railroads up there was quite a challenge without making them look overly silly (however, the railroad is still not hitzu-approvable *:D). One or two cable car lines should help here. As I will most definitely use the cable cars, I'm a bit miffed that they dropped the ball in the realism department. I guess you can't have everything. Of course, there's always the blimps, although I think they are kind of silly as a major mode of transportation.

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The presentations would benefit from some forward planning- 

  • establish the important info they wish to share about the new expansion
  • decide the format and structure of the presentation
  • break the presentation down ie-  focus on- a) free upgrade,  b) paid content
  • run through the new content each element  contains
  • show the new content in action using short practical tutorial type builds 
  • have a dialogue with fans- a live  Q&A where points are clarified and fans can provide feedback all in real time that will help CO refine the expansion

Once established-

  • decide who is their most effective communicator to deliver the message
  • have at least an outline script containing all main points to be covered
  • run through the presentation "in-house" and evaluate at least once before the live webcast
  • do it!

I'm certain that this kind of approach would avoid a lot of confusion and be a more positive experience for all concerned

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On 04/04/2017 at 6:18 PM, Giveaway412 said:

Holy crap, you've made posts like this both here and on the Paradox forums... why are you so angry? 

Use of the words "Holy crap" to start a sentence is already forming an aggressive tone. Then you go on to ask why the user is so angry? What is the purpose of this action if not to be inflammatory? So I felt as a moderator I would call you out on it, you then apologise but seek to undermine me by accusing me of hypocrisy.

10 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I suggest perhaps you have a problem with someone criticising something you like, because maybe you are too sensitive to handle it?

5 hours ago, Giveaway412 said:

The hypocrisy is strong here...

Nuance can be everything in language. I wasn't telling you you were too sensitive, merely suggesting that's one reason I could think of why someone would attack another user. Perhaps that didn't come across as clearly as I hoped. In that respect I'd disagree that I'm being a hypocrite in this regard. My motivation in calling out your behaviour was for the good of a balanced discussion to be enabled. No one should feel unable to contribute their views, positive or negative, provided they are done politely. It's not fair to throw such negativity around at others because you don't like their viewpoint. Whilst it may be a subtle difference, suggesting a reason for someone's actions is not the same as asking someone a loaded question that casts aspersions as to their mood. But it would be quite funny if you did find it hypocritical, because it's basically a reflection of how you behaved towards another user, but when you feel it was turned upon you, suddenly you have cause to complain?

5 hours ago, Giveaway412 said:

I was simply surprised when I saw the comments on the Paradox forums, came here and found the same comments made by the same guy. It just came across as petty to me.

Well, I for one do not visit/read the Paradox forums. I also don't see a problem with voicing ones opinions in more than one place. Again the general point here is that such actions in no way equate to someone being angry. Since you seem to accept this point, I think it's best if we leave things here.

6 hours ago, Giveaway412 said:

I'm sure Colossal Order does not want to completely devalue a large overhaul mod, nor introduce a gratuitous amount of micromanagement to the basegame. They're merely introducing some of the smaller fixes and features for free, and crediting the modders who inspired them.

The issue I have with that is that sometimes that works counter-productively. So now Traffic ++ is mostly made redundant, because most of it is part of the base game. Where is the incentive for the modder to re-make only the parts CO felt were too much micro-management for the average user? In these cases, we often go backwards because assuming at least you use mods, there is now less flexibility due to the implementation. Also crediting modders is not saying "thanks modders for showing us the way", it means crediting the individuals who's ideas you've taken. I can't say for sure, but I don't see this happening.

6 hours ago, Giveaway412 said:

Maybe you don't have enough stops/traffic lights on your routes? The frequent stops could help them space out.

Nope, I'm sure my lines are built just fine. It bothers me because it all looks like it's not working. The problem is most likely that buses get caught up in traffic, traffic lights are the opposite of helpful in my opinion. What we need is a little fine-tuning of the automata, not just for buses, but subway trains and perhaps other networks too. The real problem is how it makes huge queues at stations, cims that wait there too long simply never leave the stop. It just seems like such a simple thing to fix, not a priority, but it would be nice if someone cared enough to make it work properly IMO.

6 hours ago, Giveaway412 said:

All in all... I'm surprised that people think the update is underwhelming.

When I say underwhelming, I'm referring to the paid stuff only, because everything else you are going to get anyhow. So if I'm paying for just a Monorail network, Ferries, Cable Cars and Blimps, that might seem like a good deal. But if the Cable Cars, Blimps and to some extent the Ferries (IMO) aren't really all that useful, there isn't a whole lot else to temp me to part with cash. As for the free part of the update, most of that I've had since launch through mods. Sure it's great that's being integrated into the base game, but that doesn't make me jump up and down with joy. It's just a few less mods I'll need to have installed, not withstanding my point above about how that can be a negative sometimes.

46 minutes ago, mutton noir said:

The presentations would benefit from some forward planning- 

Absolutely agree with you there. What this is about is not paying someone to do marketing fluff. But simply coming across as professionals and not some YouTube amateurs. Think about it, would a normal person spend 40m to watch that video? Most people wouldn't. If you want effective marketing or publicity, you must be effective in how you go about it.

48 minutes ago, mutton noir said:

decide who is their most effective communicator to deliver the message

Agreed. On a similar note I saw parts of a video by Nintendo in the run up to the switch launch, showing off multi-player bomberman. It was so boring and totally missing the one key thing they should have done. Show four (or more) mates playing the game and having FUN!!! I had a party a few years back with 10-player bomberman, we took some video and it's clear how much fun playing a game with a lot of friends together can be. But the very essence of the game was the very thing they missed. No one wants to sit and listen to people telling you what buttons do what for 20m without a sense of excitement or joy. Find someone who loves C:S, get them to enthuse about the game. Geez, people do this stuff for free you know, just compare this to the launch build up from YouTube live streams? Watching those people play made me want to buy the game so badly.

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I'll admit, I was one of those people that thought Mutton was "just angry" and foolishly ignored his argument, but then I tried watching the second VoD and found myself doing something else a few minutes later. I owe him an apology for that.

I agree with the things already said about the presentation: even if they made a decent job with the expansion, the VoDs just felt... boring. Yes, it could be because it was made during an expo and they had to improvise, but even then I think they could have followed a basic presentation structure and then improvise with that in mind. Something like Mutton suggested, for example.

What I also see in many parts of the gaming scene (not just this thread, or this game to begin with) is that many people today gets shocked to see their beloved game take any kind of criticism, constructive or otherwise. Internet trolls aside, the people who criticise doesn't necessarily hate the game, but quite the contrary: they want it to improve. Any piece of media needs criticism to improve *;)

Back on topic, I do like what they've shown so far, though I agree that more ways to transport freight would be nice. You can only do so many underground freight rail networks before that starts to become boring.

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Posted (edited)

Dev Diary #2 has been posted, showing off Blimps and Cable Cars!

Direct Link

Quote

With Mass Transit, you can take control of not only the waterways, but also the sky. Last week I wrote about Ferries and how they offer excellent solution for connecting isolated islands to the city with fast routes. Blimps are another way of doing that, but work better for larger settlements, as they have a higher passenger capacity than Ferries.
MassTransit_015.png

A blimp gliding over the city

The basics of Blimps are much like Ferries. Since they do no work on roads, you need to mark Pathways for them to travel. Blimps fly from stop to stop and need a route to the Depot. Pathways are two-way, basically like virtual roads for Blimps, so you have exact control over where they travel. Stops need a road connection, but other than that, can freely be placed anywhere on the map. Depots need to be connected to roads as well, but can send vehicles to any line they have a Pathway connection with. The amount of Blimps per line is determined by the public transport budget for them, but can be adjusted more carefully with the new slider for vehicles per line. Blimps glide over the city, ascending and descending on their own, following the marked routes.

MassTransit_018.png

That's some quality education right there

As an extra benefit, there is space on the sides of Blimps for advertisements. By default they show adverts from various companies, but if you wish to use the space to your city’s benefit, you can set a policy so that Blimps show educational posters. This boosts your city’s education facilities a little bit, and of course looks quite cool.

MassTransit_003.png

Cable cars operating on a slope

And then there are the Cable Cars. Don’t think of the San Francisco Cable Cars, but the type that travel steep hills suspended on cables. The Skylines Cable Cars are very useful on slopes, but can also be placed on level ground. There are two types of stops: end-of-line stops and stops where Cable Cars can pass through and continue to further stops. Pass through stops can also be used at the ends, but end-of-line types can be used to get that finishing touch. Cable Cars lines are somewhat easier to set up than other types. Built the stops you want to have in the city and connect them with cables. When any two or more stops are connected, the line will start to operate automatically. All stops connected to each other are considered one line. Cable Cars do not have Depots, so no Depot connections are needed.

Cables can go over roads and their height can be adjusted with PgUp and PgDown, just like roads. However the cables cannot pass over houses. Cables can be built on water, even so that the concrete bases of the pylons are standing in the water.

MassTransit_007.png

Cable Car stop in action

Cable Cars don’t have a huge capacity, but they run often, allowing a constant stream of passengers to be transported. Avoiding roads is a huge plus, that’s less vehicles on the roads so less traffic congestion. Operating on level ground, slopes and allowing cables to go on water makes sure Cable Cars are very flexible as means of transport and can be used in many different cases.


What will your city get first, Cable Cars or Blimps?

On a further note, CO apparently listened to the criticisms with the livestream and released a more concise video to provide some info on the new content. 

 

 


  Edited by Giveaway412  

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1 hour ago, Giveaway412 said:

Dev Diary #2 has been posted, showing off Blimps and Cable Cars!

Direct Link

On a further note, CO apparently listened to the criticisms with the livestream and released a more concise video to provide some info on the new content. 

 

 

That video was quite informative and showed us some thing we hadn't seen before, like the blimp paths and emergency vehicle overtaking. With no release date yet, I hope they take time to fix both the lack of pivots on the cable cars and add priority/yield signs along with the stop signs. As is very visible in the video above, every single car stops before the junction, making it only marginally (if at all) better than stop lights. Useful for some smaller junctions, but just another bottleneck for higher volumes of traffic.

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Posted (edited)

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket - and it's only because I want so much out of this game I have over 1000 hours in - but I have a few comments:

  • Blimps, monorails, and cable cars? I personally don't really care and won't likely use any of them.  This is entirely due to my playstyle though (realism/replication of real cities). I recognize that others may find them really cool/useful. Ferries will be nice though. 
  • Yield signs would be much more useful than stop signs, and even more than that the "feel free to block the intersection" tool that TMPE has.  It really helps designate small side roads/alleys as such without disrupting the main road too much.
  • Emergency vehicles can now change lanes but are still stuck in traffic, stopped by lights, and other cars don't pull over at all for them.  As stated in the video this is likely computationally limited and I can accept that.  I just note that it's only mildly useful - and only on roads that have multiple lanes for them to switch into/out of.
  • I'm actually the most excited for the road namer.  I hope it's in the free patch because it's debatable if I'm buying the expansion based on the information we have so far.
  • The route tool seems like it has the same features as the existing mod version - I suppose it's always good to get more things in the base game to be more efficient.

Overall I'm fairly ambivalent about the update/expansion.  Again I don't want to be a downer but I'm more concerned with the time and effort to update mod compatibility than excited for any new features.


  Edited by Rotype  

typo

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9 hours ago, Giveaway412 said:

On a further note, CO apparently listened to the criticisms with the livestream and released a more concise video to provide some info on the new content. 

So apparently they gave the pre-release version to letsplayers to review. Not my favourite letsplayer though :(

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5 hours ago, wasmic said:

... and cable cars have successfully been integrated into metro systems in South America.

That's also the case in Taipei. Well, half-way successfully.

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3 hours ago, wasmic said:

@Rotype: Actually, monorails are very common in East Asia, and cable cars have successfully been integrated into metro systems in South America. The only unrealistic transport option is the blimps; all the others are well-grounded in reality.

Fair enough.  That's why I stressed personally in that bullet, though perhaps I should have added "American" to my playstyle. Art imitates life eh?  I evidently need to broaden my experiences.  Gives me even more reason to visit Asia and South America - research!  :)

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