Windows 10 Problem Reporting Thread

[rsc204 21,805]

!! Update 05 Aug !! - READ HERE FIRST It seems that CD versions of SC4 will not run under Windows 10 - The necessary OS support files for validating SafeDisc2 copy protection simply isn't part of Windows 10. This issue is not unique to SC4 either, SafeDisc and associated technologies were widely used by game discs for such validation.  For now, unless MS decide to retroactively support it, your only option appears to be a digital version of the game which will not have such copy protection. If you put your CD-Key into Origin they will provide you with a free digital copy of the game, so it needn’t cost you any money to resolve.

This thread is aimed at users who cannot run SC4 using Windows 10, if your games starts but has other issues, this is not the place to go into that. The only way to try and understand why certain users can not get the game to work, and hopefully, find a solution, is to start gathering some data.

-Note-

I've removed the superfluous information from this thread, to avoid confusion. But in-short the summary above explains the issue here.

  Edited September 28, 2016 by rsc204  
Remove superflous info.

[markussaage 762]

Hello,

I upgraded my Windows 7 Pro to Windows 10 Pro, after the upgrade I formatted the HDD an did a clean Windows 10 Pro installation. My laptop is a Dell Latitude with a 4th Gen processor and Intel HD Graphics. I use the internal laptop speaker. No other applications are installed so far.

I made a fresh SimCity 4 install from a digital download from Amazon years ago. The build level here is 641.0. For now I am running the game with administrative rights, but I am gonna try to play as a standard user as well.

So far I don't have any problems running the game. My plugins folder is 6,8 GB. I use NAM 32 and several other mods.

For now I was able to run some tests on the tools as well. iLive's Reader 0.93 works just fine, LEProp Tool, also the SC4Dat Packer 2008, SC4Mapper 2013 (had a Virus warning with the new build in defender version though), and the BSC Cleanitol. Not working yet are the SC4Tool and SC4Data Node. They expect .NET Framework 3.5 to run and for now I wasn't able to install it because of an error during installation. But I wanna take a look at this later.

Kind regards!

[Ulisse Wolf 4,398]

Hi my laptop has Windows Home 10 (64-bit)  i have all the drivers to the latest version. I have two graphics cards Intel HD Graphics 3000 (built-in) and Nvidia GeForce gt 620M, working audio, simcity 4 builds is 640, Directx 11.1 4 GB of RAM you have the disc for simcity 4 deluxe edition.
This is my problem
When I start simcity nothing happens and checking task manager sees that the process disappears like the game won't start I don't know what should I do 

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

^ Did you do a reinstall of SimCity 4 Deluxe?  If not, I suggest you do so because there could be registry problems otherwise.

When you do the reinstall, do not forget to patch with at least EP1 to level 1,1,638,0 to fix bugs.  It might also pay to run the patch to update version 640.

The other thing that may be happening is that Simcity 4 Deluxe is a 32-bit program.  With your 64-bit decor, the game should have installed in C:\Program Files (x86)\ which is where Windows seems to want 32-bit programs.

Look at the properties of your shortcut (on the desktop) and see if the complete pathname is for the 32-bit directory.

Also, what options have you selected on the command line (target) in the shortcut.  As a minimum I suggest:

-intro:off, -cpucount:1

If you have an HD screen you will also need

--CustomResolution:enabled -r1920x1080x32

The -r option may be changed to reflect your actual screen resolution as this is the standard 1080p set up for my monitor.

[Ulisse Wolf 4,398]

I answer in order 

1. Yes I did including cleaning the registry and rebooting the system
2. with the current version I have just installed the patch 1.1.638 EP1
3. Carefully supervised the installation directory and corresponds to 100%
4. run the post-installation inspection
5. posted in configurations target suggested by you
6. I inserted a different resolution which is as follows: "-CustomResolution:enabled -r1366x768x32"

with the following version I get an error message: Access is denied       please login with administrator privileges and try again

I have not a shred of idea on how to fix it 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Log in to the administration account and launch the program.  If you are not the system administrator, you'll need to have a chat with him/her.

[Ulisse Wolf 4,398]

I'm in my account that is an administrator account

[rsc204 21,805]

Not how I understand it you aren't... Windows 10 doesn't allow full admin rights by default, it's part of the sandboxing done to protect end users. To my knowledge, there is no such thing as having full admin rights unless you specify you want them and that's not just when you install the game, but also when you run it, every single time too.

I'd try removing the game totally, installing with Admin rights (Right click, Run as Administrator) and then run the game in the same fashion, does the CD now load? It does seem to be all the CD users having this problem.

Sorry to be unspecific here, I'm passing on second hand information from technically minded friends here since Windows 10 is not coming to my PC anytime soon.

[Ulisse Wolf 4,398]

I live in Italy which is night I will try again with installing tomorrow morning

Good night

02/08/2015

I tried with "run as Administrator" to install the error message now disappeared but now does not start as if the app didn't match

  Edited August 2, 2015 by ulisse  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Did you, as recommended, do a reinstall with full Administrator rights?  This is probably necessary.

My system (Ubuntu) also has administration blockages for some things, but not for 'user' applications.  If you want to run a system update for example, you are required to use the administrative commands and give the admin password.  I've generally found that this works best from a console.

Does anyone understand just what boogeyman Microsoft is afraid of?  Why do they do all this Dick and Jane stuff?  The implication is that they don't make use of the hardware protection afforded by the architecture.

 

  Edited August 2, 2015 by A Nonny Moose  
Clarification

[rsc204 21,805]

I think the problem is two things. Firstly MS want you to use the AppStore, only Windows apps run in the true sandbox where they can't cause harm (theoretically) to your system. But security is not the only focus, these apps lock you into the Windows ecosystem as opposed to say Apple's, Google's or Amazon's, this is a fight for the companies survival, you may laugh, it's true though. If they get you on the desktop or mobile or Xbox, they can get you on all three since they are linked together being the idea. So if as a by-product of security you happen to make it as hard as possible to use non appstore programs, MS are happy with that. Of course armed with knowledge and the will to get around it, you will find you don't have so many issues, I think fundamentally legacy support is required or businesses will simply ignore Win10, that's harmful to MS since that's where all the money comes from, you'll note Win10 for business is not free at a client level.

Legacy support is the second problem, whilst it's there the security layer never used to be, in some cases they may not play nice together. We know the installer works with Win10, so I would not be surprised if the problem was the CD Security check done when launching the game was the cause of the app closing without appearing to do anything. Somewhere specific permissions need to be granted to enable this operation and if you've not got them the launcher can't validate your copy, so it terminates the process. Since the digital versions do this through the Steam or Origin clients, the same problem should not occur and both clients will have full Win10 support even if not right now. DRM-Free copies are obviously bereft of all of these requirements by their nature.

Of course this is all theory based on anecdotal evidence in these forums, without the data/testing to back it up it's hard to really pinpoint. My friend who let me try the game on Win10 is very in-tune with Windows 10, something I can't say I am personally, so if I can replicate the error with the disks there at some point, hopefully we can find out what's causing this behaviour and how to bypass it.

Admin rights for the installer/running the game seem like a no-brainer, since any application that accesses Program Files and it's equivalents in a 32-bit environment in theory need such rights to modify/read files within that directory. This doesn't cause problems on Win7, since most users simply run as administrators all the time, something you'd never do in Linux. Hence MS changed things so that this would not be possible, the problem is most users don't understand all this security, they want it handled for them. So UAC (user account control), Antivirus/Security programs (including Win Defender) and Permissions are all possible contenders for screwing with things.

If someone did manage to get the CD version working on Win10 without hiccups, it would be really useful to know what they did or what settings they've applied in respect of security. Unless I've missed something, I don't recall any CD users specifically mentioning success here. Of course if the theory is right, the digital version will solve the problem, if a sale was one for $5 that's great, but having the disks I'd be damned if I'd pay $20 to run a game I own where the new disks cost $6. That said, if a purchased digital version doesn't work out of the box you should have access to support, or at least the option of a refund. 

[KiethMarkus2014 14]

Can you patch and use custom content using the Origin version?

  Edited August 2, 2015 by KiethMarkus2014  

[Ramona Brie 121]

Legacy support is the second problem, whilst it's there the security layer never used to be, in some cases they may not play nice together. We know the installer works with Win10, so I would not be surprised if the problem was the CD Security check done when launching the game was the cause of the app closing without appearing to do anything. Somewhere specific permissions need to be granted to enable this operation and if you've not got them the launcher can't validate your copy, so it terminates the process. Since the digital versions do this through the Steam or Origin clients, the same problem should not occur and both clients will have full Win10 support even if not right now. DRM-Free copies are obviously bereft of all of these requirements by their nature.

That doesn't surprise me at all either. My setup is indeed the CD version (the disk is virtualized with a disk image containing the security code). That sounds like it could be the problem.

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Can you patch and use custom content using the Origin version?

The Origin version doesn't need patches.  It is 1,1,641  the same as the digital version from other vendors.  The only fly in the ointment is that they set up a DRM structure where one is unnecessary and this blocks after-market items such as the BAT because the system entries are not what is expected.  If you ask Origin (EA), they will deny that the BAT exists, even though it is a Maxis product.

[rsc204 21,805]

I can't understand why anyone would prefer the Steam or Origin versions over the DRM-Free vendors, obviously price may be a factor, but any idea that somehow buying from EA (Origin) would lead to a better experience is sadly misplaced loyalty.

Until Tarkus from the NAM team got publicity about the Origin version being distributed unpatched, and worst of all in a non patchable state, EA/Origin basically denied the problem. The changes made to these DRM versions stop the tools like BAT from being recognised as genuine when trying to install them, the Origin version is really the worst of all of them despite the patch issue being resolved.

[KiethMarkus2014 14]

I installed the game using Origin, had to make a few tweaks to get it to run in the correct resolution but it runs and way better then it did on my Windows 7 setup. The BAT, Gmax, Lot Editor and every other SimCity 4 tool works amazingly well too.

[rsc204 21,805]

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I do hear of many users having huge problems getting certain things installed. Ultimately if you want the Origin version, that's your choice, but personally I'm very anti-DRM.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I fail to see the point in Steam or Origin raising the issue of DRM with SimCity 4 Deluxe which has been on the market long before the DRM issue raised its ugly head.  The after market materials were all predicated on the known structure as installed from the CD versions and the non-DRM digital versions follow that 'standard'.  Some outfits are just too full of themselves to think of the customers.

First principle of computer applications: The system is for the end user.

[Cyclone Boom 16,850]

I've merged the two discussions into one unified topic, and pinned it. Hopefully this makes it easier to keep track of.

By the way, we also have another topic running here, in which Win 10 users have reported their experiences. Maybe some of this info will also be useful to find common solutions.

[KimB 3]

I am a SC4 Deluxe CD user, and have not been able to run the program since I upgraded to Windows 10 64-bit, from 8.1.  I was able to run it on 8.1 with a few tweaks.

What happens after Windows 10 install:  I start the program, I get the security check screen, click ok, and then... nothing.  No active SC4 processes in task manager.  Every time.

At first, I got the same access denied, login as admin - message that other users have mentioned.  Since I am the sole user/admin, this was some kind of error.  There is a proposed workaround that failed - create a second user account and make that user an admin, and run from there.  Same problem as before.

Tried "run as administrator" - same problem as before.

Then I tried installing the most recent SC4 patch... seemed to solve the "access denied, login as admin" problem (I don't see that box anymore), but the program still won't execute.

  Edited August 3, 2015 by KimB  

[rsc204 21,805]

As mentioned above, there is no admin account in windows 10, at least not akin to the system on previous versions. You may have an Administrator account, but it does not run everything with Admin rights. I propose you see the information in the first post and try a clean setup following the outlined steps. In addition, I would try both installing and running SC4 as an Administator - requires you to actually find the installer program on the disk, right click and select "Run as Administrator", the same needs to be done every time you start the game and in addition whenever you install the game patches.

It has been noted here that the CD version simply doesn't seem to want to run under Win 10, until I can test this for myself I can't really offer anything concrete as a solution to this problem.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

From the user description of the events, it appears that the security system for the game fails.  This may be due to lack of proper permissions when the security daemon spawns.  The only avoidance I know of here is to purchase the digital version which doesn't have this protection.  When it comes to dogs in the manger, MS takes the blue ribbon.

[rsc204 21,805]

Well EA and most other publishers all used fairly similar systems for CD copy protection and validation, so if SafeDisc 2 was indeed broken by Windows 10, this problem would by no means be unique to SC4. I couldn't find any information to suggest this was likely either, that said, who knows about the specific implementation of it EA used? Best guess it can be bypassed, not knowing Windows 10 intimately I'd prefer to go through it myself than provide generic advice more suited to Win 7, I know a lot of it is simply not relevant anymore.

Hopefully I can dig into this issue on the weekend, put it this way, if my CD works and yours doesn't, the issue must lie with software on your machine.

Best guess, Windows Defender, Anti-Virus and other security programs would be the culprit if not permissions.

[Ramona Brie 121]

No need to do so:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/games_windows_10/secdrvsys-not-loading-in-windows-10-this-will/65a6fe83-08df-4760-b2ad-6b1ce61d40d4

This thread is specifically about SafeDisc not working on W10, and it seems to offer a little more technical information.

Apparently this German user says Age of Mythology and Age of Empires 2 have the same problem.

Looks like after a decade of playing SC4 it's time to re-buy the thing from GOG or similar.

  Edited August 4, 2015 by Raymie  

[KiethMarkus2014 14]

Here is what I did to get SimCity 4 deluxe running on my machine and it worked like a charm.

I installed the retail 2 disk version applied all patches, installed BAT, Lot Editor etc. then I uninstalled the disk copy and downloaded and installed the Origin copy.

Every program runs perfectly and cant tell the difference between the two copies, hope that helps.

Kieth

[rsc204 21,805]

Do you simply mean you paid to bypass the problem, or were you able to get the Origin copy without charge? I know at once point Origin would happilly give you a copy of the digital version if you made a fuss about the CD not working and could provide a valid licence key, if this is still true then at least others would not have to pay to resolve this issue.

[KiethMarkus2014 14]

I just entered my CD key into Origin and they gave me a free copy.

I believe that's the case with any game you buy via retail.  If Origin sells it just enter your key online to redeem a free digital copy.

 

  Edited August 4, 2015 by KiethMarkus2014  

[rsc204 21,805]

Well that's not such a bad solution, even if Origin isn't my thing, at least no one is out of pocket. However looking at the SafeDisc problem reports, I wonder how many other classic titles will fare such a good fate. I hope no one will give MS any money for working products made redundant by this oversight, do MS even sell decent games on their AppStore?, actually I could care less, Windows 7 doesn't have an AppStore.

[KiethMarkus2014 14]

Not to sure, I refuse to buy anything off the App store.

MS better look into rectifying this problem before it angers the gamers still playing older games.

 

[NCGAIO 562]

What exactly would this " SafeDisk problem "  on cited reports?