Jason's BATs & Tutorials

[tonyr 926]

I love it, Jason!

[Jasoncw 11,840]

 

WIP List:

 

• Grand Haven Lighthouse ^{(needs: query, update modding, export prop versions))}
• Big Red Lighthouse ^{(needs: query, updated modding, export prop/hd versions)}
• Porto Ponta Negra Residence ^(DONE)
• Design Research HQ ^(DONE)
• 220 West Congress ^{(needs: some texturing, nitelites, modding)}
• Art Deco Department Store ^{(needs: roof, interiors, nitelites, modding)}
• Mystery Building ^{(needs: some texturing, nitelites, modding)}
• Water Street Maisonettes ^{(needs: roof, alley, nitelites, modding)}
• Northern Trust Bank ^{(needs: roof, texturing, nitelites, modding)}
• The Kean ^{(needs: a lot)}
• 1001 Woodward ^{(need to figure out lotting, ground texture. needs: modding, query)}
• Old Detroit Police HQ ^{(needs: a lot)}
• The Pavilion ^{(0% complete, as i'll be restarting it)}

[Jasoncw 11,840]

WIP List:

 

• Grand Haven Lighthouse ^{(needs: query, update modding, export prop versions))}
• Big Red Lighthouse ^{(needs: query, updated modding, export prop/hd versions)}
• Porto Ponta Negra Residence ^(DONE)
• Design Research HQ ^(DONE)
• 220 West Congress ^(DONE)
• Art Deco Department Store ^{(needs: roof, interiors, nitelites, modding)}
• Mystery Building ^{(needs: some texturing, nitelites, modding)}
• Water Street Maisonettes ^{(needs: roof, alley, nitelites, modding)}
• Northern Trust Bank ^{(needs: roof, texturing, nitelites, modding)}
• The Kean ^{(needs: a lot)}
• 1001 Woodward ^{(need to figure out lotting, ground texture. needs: modding, query)}
• Old Detroit Police HQ ^{(needs: a lot)}
• The Pavilion ^{(0% complete, as i'll be restarting it)}

[SimCoug 5,973]

The red text is slowly taking over...

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

VIP*

[Hotwheeler 409]

As a Custombike builder once said "blue is good and red is bad"...well not everything red is bad.Here it is good,no....it is awesome.

Can`t wait to see them being released.

[BossDragon 220]

Can't wait to see those finished builidings on the STEX.

[ilikehotdogsalot 308]

Wowza! So many awesome BATS! Looks fantastic as always!

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Thanks guys! 

 

I've made the prop versions of the lighthouses. 

 

WIP List:

 

• Grand Haven Lighthouse ^{(needs: query, updated modding)}
• Big Red Lighthouse ^{(needs: query)}
• Porto Ponta Negra Residence ^(DONE)
• Design Research HQ ^(DONE)
• 220 West Congress ^(DONE)
• Art Deco Department Store ^{(needs: roof, interiors, nitelites, modding)}
• Mystery Building ^{(needs: some texturing, nitelites, modding)}
• Water Street Maisonettes ^{(needs: roof, alley, nitelites, modding)}
• Northern Trust Bank ^{(needs: roof, texturing, nitelites, modding)}
• The Kean ^{(needs: a lot)}
• 1001 Woodward ^{(needs: to figure out lotting, ground texture, modding, query)}
• Old Detroit Police HQ ^{(needs: a lot)}
• The Pavilion ^{(0% complete, as i'll be restarting it)}

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

VIP* again.

 

Maybe to help people calm down you could post pics so they got something to see. People like seeing something and become a bit disappointed if there are literally letters everywhere. (Hey, I just gave Jason some advice \o/)

[SimCoug 5,973]

Hey, progress is progress, with or without pics... you can post nothing but emoticons for all I care   

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Toothless:

 

WIP List:

 

• Grand Haven Lighthouse ^(DONE)
• Big Red Lighthouse ^(DONE)
• Porto Ponta Negra Residence ^(DONE)
• Design Research HQ ^(DONE)
• 220 West Congress ^(DONE)
• Mystery Building ^{(needs: some texturing, nitelites, modding)}
• Northern Trust Bank ^{(needs: roof, texturing, nitelites, modding)}
• Water Street Maisonettes ^{(needs: roof, alley, nitelites, modding)}
• Art Deco Department Store ^{(needs: roof, interiors, nitelites, modding)}
• 1001 Woodward ^{(needs: to figure out lotting, ground texture, modding, query)}
• The Kean ^{(needs: a lot)}
• Old Detroit Police HQ ^{(needs: a lot)}
• The Pavilion ^{(0% complete, as i'll be restarting it)}

 

[slickbg56 778]

Hate to ask, but are you considering retirement at the conclusion of this list?

[SimCoug 5,973]

Perish the thought! Actually, I'm curious how seamless content creation will be for C:S... Will BATers be able to create buildings for both games with the same model? If so, maybe well get some new SC4 BATers in the mix.

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

Yes, Jason?

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I still plan on BATing afterwards!

 

Pretty much anything that you can get into 3ds max can be exported as a building for SimCity. It just depends on how suitable it is. A building made for Cities Skylines might be a little too low poly for SC4 and might need some additional work to look its best in SC4. Things also need to be adapted in general, although the grid in Cities Skylines is 8 m which is a multiple of SC4's 16 m, which makes things easier. However, BATs are not optimized enough to be used in real time games.

 

So hypothetically just about everything made for C:S can be exported as a BAT.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

So, I have no money so I haven't bought Cities: Skylines, but I've done a little looking around. The models just need to be in an .FBX format, and have the standard map types for 3d games. So none of the weird palette stuff of SC2013. I haven't been able to tell if there's resolution limits on the textures, and I also haven't seen how you choose things like icons and the bigger menu images. The game has a built in tool where you import the model, choose what you want it to be, and then select the stats. I'm also not sure how more complex modding is done. But I'm sure all these things will be figured out soon. 

 

But the main thing is that making the buildings should be pretty straightforward. If you can BAT now, you'll have to learn how to do things a little differently because it's a real time game, but you should be able to make buildings for th enew game. I'm also looking forward to seeing buildings in 3d, with shadows correctly interacting with their surroundings, and with the ability to zoom up more closely. The ability to see the building up close makes a difference because you can model and texture things to their actual sizes, instead of having to figure out how to exaggerate certain things, and then be disappointed when a bunch of the cool parts of a building that you liked are too small or subtle to actually be visible in the game. On the flip side though, this means that everything on the building you have to model reasonably accurately, since people will actually be able to see it. Other things you won't be able to model at all or will have to texture, because it might take too many polygons. So there's a lot of pros and cons but I think with careful building selection (choosing to make buildings that are conducive to a real time 3d environment) there's potential for a lot of fantastic looking buildings.

 

 

But right now I'm still working on SimCity 4. The mystery building is 95% done, but since it's a mystery building I can't show you.

 

And now I've moved on to the Northern Trust Bank. There's one more dormer on the roof to do, a little more ornament on the roof, a bunch of penthouses and roof junk and stuff, and on the main facade there's still a few bits here and there missing. Then I can start texturing.

 

[wallacet 336]

But the main thing is that making the buildings should be pretty straightforward.

 

So says you! It's been years since I've fired up 3dsMax. I'm going to wait for someone to post a tutorial of the basics of file type necessities and importing into Skylines before I make another attempt at BAT'ing. But I'm definitely excited to try my hand at it again.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

As far as I can tell you'd just go to File>Export, and choose .FBX as the type, and that's it.

 

Still though the requirements for making buildings for real time are much more strict, so waiting for tutorials isn't a terrible thing. For example the building needs to be one uvw unwrapped object.

[wallacet 336]

That's the kind of thing I know nothing about. It was hard enough for me to make the two BAT's I have up on the STEX....now all this new information is coming...enough to make my head spin!

[Seraf 1,238]

The ability to see the building up close makes a difference because you can model and texture things to their actual sizes, instead of having to figure out how to exaggerate certain things, and then be disappointed when a bunch of the cool parts of a building that you liked are too small or subtle to actually be visible in the game. On the flip side though, this means that everything on the building you have to model reasonably accurately, since people will actually be able to see it. Other things you won't be able to model at all or will have to texture, because it might take too many polygons.

 

Well, I always model everything to actual size (ok, maybe except windows, and even that only in terms of depth) so it's nothing new to me. Besides - modeling everything as it appears in real life always seemed easier to me than exaggerate some parts to make the better visible in game. The polycount on the other hand is a nightmare for me. I never had to watch it too closely and now I can easily go up to 15-20 million before max will slow down. It's also much easier for me to model some details than paint a texture. And in some instances texture won't do the trick, corinthian capital being one of them for example. And what's the point of watching something from up close if there's nothing to look at? That's why I'm not really convinced with the idea of city-builder in 3D. BUT. I still think C:S is a good game from what I've seen.

 

Ok, enough with my babble

 

Northern Trust Bank looks great Jason   I have my eyes set on another branch, you may even know it

[SimCoug 5,973]

Northern Trust Bank looks delicious!  

Would you consider rendering a diagonal version (maybe just a prop for us lotters - or heck, I'll whip up a lot if you want to include one)?  It's too good to just have one 

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Love the work on the Northern Trust Bank.

 

Jason, the exporting does not look to hard, and you may have to learning a few more things if you have not learned it yet. Something to keep in mind is texture baking. I wonder if you can do texture painting using 3ds Max or it's not necessary.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

That's why I'm not really convinced with the idea of city-builder in 3D. BUT. I still think C:S is a good game from what I've seen.

I'm with you here. I generally feel that some game types require a certain amount of detail in order to be really enjoyable. When the move to 3D is made, 3D often comes at the cost of detail, texture definition and polygon count, resulting in the game looking somewhat bland. It often takes a while before computers have become powerful enough to display an amount of detail comparable to earlier 2D graphics, but in full 3D. I also think that some games benefit more from true 3D than others, and that city or transport simulators don't generally belong to this category.

 

Anyway, back to topic - I really like how the bank is shaping up!

[Vlasky 1,803]

I second Seraf and T Wrecks. It's a great simulator game, just not aesthetically as pleasing to me as sc4. Tho aesthetics might come later... I won't judge at first glance. 

 

And OMG that little BAT is gorgeous! Instant classic!

[PBGV103 729]

Someone needs to develop a SimCity type game with CryEngine. xD

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN5yIhIsDAg

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Thanks guys

 

 

I think the thing about polycounts limiting things like ornament in C:S, is that those things are already severely limited by resolution in SC4. So it's true that in C:S if you zoom too close in you'll see that the column's capital and other ornament is simplified, but in a BAT it's just a jumble of shapes anyway, and once it's in the game there's not enough pixels to show anything. If a building were made for C:S and exported for SC4 people would consider it a detailed BAT imo. 

 

 

It probably doesn't look like much but there's a bunch of little things here and there that have been added. And there's still a bunch of little things yet to be added.

 

[JP Schriefer 5,590]

Looking great!

 

Will you do models to C:S too?

[Seraf 1,238]

 

I think the thing about polycounts limiting things like ornament in C:S, is that those things are already severely limited by resolution in SC4.

 

Yes, that's why I think the perfect solution would be to make game in 2.5D like SC4 but with bigger resolution  

 

 

So it's true that in C:S if you zoom too close in you'll see that the column's capital and other ornament is simplified

 

Very simplified in some cases, you can get away with simplifying the Doric order and maybe even Ionic but even remotely simple Corinthian capital takes about ~1500 poly.

 

 

It probably doesn't look like much but there's a bunch of little things here and there that have been added.

 

It looks great It will be a lovely BAT once finished

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Looking great!

 

Will you do models to C:S too?

 

When I get the game (probably at the end of June for my birthday) I'll definitely try it out. I'm excited to test my chops and make some really good looking buildings. I think the trick will be in the texturing, even more so than it is today. The models I see around have enough geometric complexity to reproduce most buildings but the textures have been lacking imo. But I want to finish my SC4 WIPs before getting serious about C:S buildings.

 

 

 

I think the thing about polycounts limiting things like ornament in C:S, is that those things are already severely limited by resolution in SC4.

 

Yes, that's why I think the perfect solution would be to make game in 2.5D like SC4 but with bigger resolution

 

 

So it's true that in C:S if you zoom too close in you'll see that the column's capital and other ornament is simplified

 

Very simplified in some cases, you can get away with simplifying the Doric order and maybe even Ionic but even remotely simple Corinthian capital takes about ~1500 poly.

 

For SC4 a corinthian capital only takes 100-200, because the resolution isn't capable of showing anything more than that. If it was going to be shown closeup in a movie or if it was 3d scanned it would be millions. I don't think a corinthian column would have more than a palm tree, and yet we're allowed to halve palm trees in the game.

 

It's also getting to be less practical to increase the resolution of prerendered graphics. Even for SC4 which is low resolution our plugins folders are already getting too big, adding a true zoom 6 render would almost quadruple the size, and you still wouldn't be able to zoom in as much and see as much detail as in C:S. And C:S's graphics can be improved with better hardware while SC4's don't (and unfortunately nowadays they actually get worse with better hardware ).