The unpredictable GLR

[TheMurderousCricket 5,055]

I am in a world of hurt trying to figure out how to build a tram network in my city.

I know that I need to use elevated rail to drag the network, k?

What I don't know is how to make the tram-on-street feature draggable. I tried running both street and elevated rail through the starter piece and couldn't get it to work.

What is more, any lot which lies adjacent to tram-on-street stop displays "no road access" zot?

Comments and suggestions welcome.

[rsc204 21,808]

GLR is a mix of legacy Puzzle Pieces, draggable GLR-only and Flex-based setups.

Click on each individual tile of an Avenue with the El-Rail tool (do not drag), to convert it to TiA, TiR/TiS work the same, only on the road & street networks. These flex-based sections can be used to make automatic junctions, by dragging networks away from them, like roads etc. However aside from the straight and curve sections, this method is not fully implemented. You need to use the original Puzzle Pieces for the remaining GLR setup.

10 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

both street and elevated rail through the starter piece and couldn't get it to work.

Note there is no starter piece for these networks, the piece you placed is a Puzzle Piece, use the TAB-Ring to flip through all available pieces.

10 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

What is more, any lot which lies adjacent to tram-on-street stop displays "no road access" zot?

Any sort of transit enabled lot, or any lot for that matter, simply isn't able to provide actual network functionality and therefore will not support zoning. Just like RTMT stations, you need to modify how you zone around such lots if you want buildings to grow. Simply ensuring a single zone touches at least one zoneable tile is sufficient, you can achieve this by having zones touch adjacent roads/streets or by extending beyond the lot on the same segment.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,055]

Ok, that helped a bit.

I understand there is no way to retain a street texture under the rails, is there...? 

7 hours ago, rsc204 said:

GLR is a mix of legacy Puzzle Pieces, draggable GLR-only and Flex-based setups.

Do I get it right that the tram network is a "dusty attic" type of thing and there are no plans to continue developing it?

That would be a shame. I really like trams as a form of transportation. 

[11241036 5,097]

51 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

I understand there is no way to retain a street texture under the rails, is there...? 

Well, @Sarsey developed a mod changing the Tram-in-Street textures in a way that there are GLR tracks on asphalt instead of the usual cobblestone. It's unfortunately not available anymore, Sarsey never uploaded it directly on the STEX but on Dropbox instead, but the link doesn't work anymore. Tagging @CorinaMarie if this mod can be uploaded (the pictures in the post I'm linking tell you most you need to know).

 

[TheMurderousCricket 5,055]

Thanks @11241036. Do you have any info whether this could work with the SAM textures as well?

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

2 hours ago, 11241036 said:

Tagging @CorinaMarie if this mod can be uploaded

Yep. You can do that.

Our policy is that when there are files which are no longer available thru no fault or deliberate action by the creator, then we allow them to be uploaded to the STEX in good faith for the benefit of the entire SC4 community.

[Leo -- 186]

Here's one seemly undocumented thing you can do with trams, draggable-ish TiR and ToR !:

 

[Tarkus 6,932]

It's possible to do the "semi-draggable" method just by simply building a Road as one normally would, and then clicking over each tile with the (Elevated) Light Rail tool, without all the Road stubs.  Same works with Avenue and Street for their respective Tram Dual-Networks.  The Rail overclick for the Tram-on-Road doesn't really work, unfortunately--the Tram traffic can't actually use it.  We're exploring alternate implementations there.

14 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

Do I get it right that the tram network is a "dusty attic" type of thing and there are no plans to continue developing it?

That would be a shame. I really like trams as a form of transportation. 

GLR/Tram is definitely still something we plan to continue developing into the future, along with its Dual-Networking options.  It's been a lot slower going, however, because we haven't really had a dedicated Tram development group since Chrisim and his Tram Team were a prolific part of the NAM effort in the late-00s/early-10s, and for a bit, we only had 3 developers, total.  With the recent rapid expansion of the NAM Team, it's pretty much inevitable it'll be dusted off in some form, and there's already been some discussion about its next steps (and in fact, one such concept can be seen here).

-Tarkus

[Leo -- 186]

15 minutes ago, Tarkus said:

It's possible to do the "semi-draggable" method just by simply building a Road as one normally would, and then clicking over each tile with the (Elevated) Light Rail tool, without all the Road stubs.Same works with Avenue and Street for their respective Tram Dual-Networks. 

Sadly that doesn't work for me I need to have those stubs or else it would just refuse to plop.

And I couldn't get anything to corporate with the avenue network.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,055]

@Tarkus - Good to hear it! And yes, the semi-draggable method is quite effective. However, when I re-click junctions, they just tend to disappear. So it's probably better to use puzzle pieces for that.

[rsc204 21,808]

5 hours ago, Leo -- said:

Here's one seemly undocumented thing you can do with trams, draggable-ish TiR and ToR !:

I'm fairly certain it was documented somewhere, this functionality was added many versions ago.

If I'm not mistaken your YouTube upload contains the SC4 music?, if this is the case you should be aware the SC4 music tracks are not owned by EA. Those entities that do own the copyright have been known to flag content which includes it, including SC4 videos. You might want to remove it and/or reupload your video to avoid the ire of the YouTube police at some point.

2 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

However, when I re-click junctions, they just tend to disappear.

RUL code works such that everything gets refreshed within a certain radius when you re-click things. First, if you aren't altering such, why would you need to re-click the junction anyway? If you do, just delete the first tile away from the GLR piece and re-drag the junction again.

My personal methodology is to build the base networks (without GLR) first, for example an Avenue. I'll map out where I want the equivalent GLR (TiA in this case) network, before removing anything where I might need to place Puzzle Pieces and stations. Once I've got all those in place, then I'll fill in the remaining sections by clicking on top with the El-Rail tool, the last of all any Flex-based connections I need.

The addition of the Flex-Based GLR networks may seem small, but it unlocks the ability to make RUL overrides, something static Puzzle Pieces simply can't do. So you can drag say an E-RRW piece to one side of such a piece and it will 'jump' across it making a suitable viaduct (OxO only currently). It has also allowed for such networks to interact with RHW crossings, including junctions on the GLR networks and much more besides.

18 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

Do I get it right that the tram network is a "dusty attic" type of thing and there are no plans to continue developing it?

I don't think you could say that about any single-part of the NAM, ultimately anyone is free to come along and alter or expand any component. Of course that differs quite greatly from saying that someone is currently either planning or actively involved in such.

I do have some unfinished cross-compatibility for GLRxSAM crossing for example, annoyingly I just had one setup that wasn't overriding stably before RL hit hard.

[11241036 5,097]

18 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

Thanks @11241036. Do you have any info whether this could work with the SAM textures as well?

This should to my knowledge only work with the Tram-in-Street and the Tram-in-Road textures. You can choose which of both mods by installing only one of the files that come with it.

15 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Yep. You can do that.

Our policy is that when there are files which are no longer available thru no fault or deliberate action by the creator, then we allow them to be uploaded to the STEX in good faith for the benefit of the entire SC4 community.

I just realized that Sarsey has been last online in May. While this may mean that he/she hasn't been very active in a while, I'm first sending him/her a PM because it might be easier that way. I'll upload these files if I'm not getting an answer in due time.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,055]

1 hour ago, 11241036 said:

I'm first sending him/her a PM because it might be easier that way.

Good call and a fair one!

[Leo -- 186]

4 hours ago, rsc204 said:

QIf I'm not mistaken your YouTube upload contains the SC4 music?, if this is the case you should be aware the SC4 music tracks are not owned by EA. Those entities that do own the copyright have been known to flag content which includes it, including SC4 videos. You might want to remove it and/or reupload your video to avoid the ire of the YouTube police at some point.

Thanks for your concern about I am not planning monetize any of my content for the channel's existence so I wouldn't care about copyright claims. (Judging by your post I assume copyright claims and not strikes)

[rsc204 21,808]

My understanding is that these tracks can lead to the later. They expect royalties for their use, regardless and for sure a few around here fell foul of the issue. It was a number of years back, but it’s all algorithms so I doubt they won’t ever notice. 

[TheMurderousCricket 5,055]

2 hours ago, Leo -- said:

Thanks for your concern about I am not planning monetize any of my content for the channel's existence so I wouldn't care about copyright claims. (Judging by your post I assume copyright claims and not strikes)

Copyright is clear on that - whether commercial or not, it is an infringement to use someone else's resources without permission.

Of course, the "fair use" clause does apply sometimes. It lifts copyright restrictions if a material is used as an academic resource, for the disabled individuals' convenience as an element of a research et alia.

However, inserting a copyrighted music into a video doesn't seem to fall into this category.

Do yourself a favor and re-edit it to be on the safe side. It's not reasonable to take chances with this sort of thing.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

5 hours ago, 11241036 said:

I'll upload these files if I'm not getting an answer in due time.

Very good for the PM and in it you can mention the upload will be transferred to their account so they'd get all the views, likes, and credit it for it. (Just let any staff member or @Tyberius06 know and we can do the reassignment to them.)

[TheMurderousCricket 5,055]

Still not getting there...

I just can't find any way to continue building a tram line leading from the grass onto a road-street intersection. I can either have an intersection or a GLR...??? 

It only works if the entire intersection and the network type further on is of the same kind. What the heck?

Another thing - why am I forbidden to build a tram station right next to the intersection??!!

[11241036 5,097]

19 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

Still not getting there...

I just can't find any way to continue building a tram line leading from the grass onto a road-street intersection. I can either have an intersection or a GLR...??? 

It only works if the entire intersection and the network type further on is of the same kind. What the heck?

Another thing - why am I forbidden to build a tram station right next to the intersection??!!

1. Question: There is a puzzle piece, I believe in the Tram-in-Street section, which makes a transition between Tram-in-Road and Tram-in-Street. Sometimes, especially for settings like this, you need to use this one. I believe there also is a puzzle piece for a road T-intersection with the tram tracks running to the end with no road.

2. Question: Transit stations that are transit-enabled for a certain type of network cannot be placed next to puzzle pieces. You need to first place the transit station, and second the puzzle piece. Be careful, though, not to hover the cursor over the station while it contains the puzzle piece, this can trigger a nasty bug causing the game to crash! (Or download SimMaster's fix to prevent that from occurring.)

[TheMurderousCricket 5,055]

Thanks @11241036. I tried that and cycled through all the pieces but I can't find any that would fit in this situation.

30 minutes ago, 11241036 said:

Transit stations that are transit-enabled

Oh, by the way, what does "transit-enabled" mean?

I just realized that some of the station's descriptions say "drag oneway to activate" but this is totally obscure to me - I don't understand NAMite.  

EDIT: Oh wait, there is one, but it ends with a blind street rather than a sidewalk (it's an X instead of T).

[rsc204 21,808]

1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

It only works if the entire intersection and the network type further on is of the same kind. What the heck?

Only those pieces covered are available, it takes some practise to have a good understanding of what is and isn't possible. There is no piece for intersecting Tram in Street with Tram on Road as a junction. Instead I'd use a 4-way Tram in Road intersection and the Tram in Road to Tram in Street transitions on either side.

1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

Another thing - why am I forbidden to build a tram station right next to the intersection??!!

It is possible to place this station on top of a section of GLR, but indeed the presence of a TiR intersection prevents this. The station you are trying to place isn't a TiR station, so won't look or function as intended in this setup. Either use a TiR station, rather than placing them on the network, these stations use the Gap-Method to place. Otherwise you may want to use the piece that transitions to a regular GLR connection after the intersection.

1 hour ago, 11241036 said:

I believe there also is a puzzle piece for a road T-intersection with the tram tracks running to the end with no road.

There are such pieces for Tram in Avenue, but not Tram in Road so far as I know.

47 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

Oh, by the way, what does "transit-enabled" mean?

It means that traffic can pass from one side of it to the other, since lots can't technically function as networks, settings determine what can Enter and Leave the lot, this facilitates the functionality of both a station and allowing the relevant traffic types to traverse the lot.

47 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

I just realized that some of the station's descriptions say "drag oneway to activate"

Due to the way some GLR stations must be modded, you may find the paths require activation before they work. This would happen anyway when you reloaded the tile, but dragging through the station with the OWR tool will activate them right away.

If you look inside the NAM download, there is a folder OLD, which contains a lot of the legacy NAM documentation. The PDF NAM Transit Stations Manual explains a lot of useful techniques for placing NAM stations. I believe work is underway to bring this (and other) content into the new online documentation. But due to the amount of legacy content that needs updating, the process has taken a while.

[youngwii 74]

For reference, there is a piece that ends the Tram-in-Road at a T-intersection while allowing the tram to continue through:

[RobertLM78 1,597]

On 9/14/2021 at 3:54 AM, rsc204 said:

My personal methodology is to build the base networks (without GLR) first, for example an Avenue. I'll map out where I want the equivalent GLR (TiA in this case) network, before removing anything where I might need to place Puzzle Pieces and stations.

This is essentially how I roll.   The Avenue  corridors are almost  always already established, and i just simply map out where i want to install the TiA.

 

[11241036 5,097]

Since I've not heard from Sarsey within 7 days, I've uploaded the Tram Replacement Mod to the STEX. I'll write a PM to Tyberius in order to have the upload assigned to Sarsey.