Got a quick SC4 question?... Ask here!

[carlosmarcelo 975]

Sounds like a TV show question, but here it goes... 

When is the plugins folder read? 
A. When do we start the game
B. When we start a city
C. The two options, A and B, but only enough is read
D. The two options, A and B, but the entire folder is read twice
E. None of the above, I think it's better to choose another game... 🤣

[Silur 3,304]

Is there a way to change the distance between contours in SC4?

[Cyclone Boom 16,875]

22 minutes ago, Silur said:

Is there a way to change the distance between contours in SC4?

I recall Cori and I looked into this extensively a while ago. While it might be possible via some method we're not yet aware of, we didn't find any way which the contours could be modified. So this is likely something which is internally integrated into the game.

 

33 minutes ago, carlosmarcelo said:

Sounds like a TV show question, but here it goes... 

 

@CorinaMarie tells me she will give her final answer on this shortly...

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

37 minutes ago, carlosmarcelo said:

When is the plugins folder read? 

My own testing suggests the plugins folder is read prior to arriving at the Region Screen. This is one reason when running the full NAM with RHW installed that it takes much longer to get there, but if going in and out of city tiles (exiting back to the region), those subsequent city tile loads are quicker than the full start up time.

In our chat, CB just mentioned that once the game has loaded all the Plugins during startup and has processed the data, it doesn't re-load any plugins. This is evident if tabbing out of the game (whether in region view or in a city tile) and adding new plugins, they will not get applied to the game for use in that session.

I believe during any city tile loading (from the region screen) is when the game reads all of the city's placed/grown content and matches those up to the plugins information. Like how it knows to show the various terrain mod's textures and updates them if the plugins are different than last seen. Some city tile data is updated from plugins which is why the Phantom Slider Bug can occur.

Then there are specific loading orders for the Lua entries which are separated into what CB and I call:

1. Region Memory code
2. System Memory code
3. Game Memory code

Generally you won't need to worry about the Lua stuff unless programming those.

A recent discovery we made are those Lua which have a #-package:HexNumber# are loaded in hex numerical order since they are not called with a dofile() command. This completely bypasses the file load order no matter what they are named or where they are within the plugins folder structure.

[SIM-ple Jack 17,444]

2 hours ago, Silur said:

Is there a way to change the distance between contours in SC4?

Terraformer wont do it. If the map is in grayscale format, you can create raised contour levels as little as 7.5m in photoshop simply by lightening the midtones 1/10th of a degree. I imagine you could do this in bitmap too, but I've never worked in that format. You can leave the contours as is for a mesa-type elevation, or hit the gausian blur for smoother slopes.

[rsc204 21,808]

15 hours ago, carlosmarcelo said:

When is the plugins folder read?

So far as we know from observing things, upon starting the game, it indexes all your Plugins, this isn’t the same as loading them. This is why SC4 starts up faster a second time, because some of this information is held in memory until you reboot your machine unless it detects the contents of your Plugins folder has changed between starts. 

When you subsequently load the first city is when the RUL code is loaded, possibly  along with some other things related to content in the save file.

So far as I know that doesn’t involve any double-loading, SC4 is too ruthlessly efficient for me to think they’d do such a thing.

[carlosmarcelo 975]

2 hours ago, rsc204 said:

When you subsequently load the first city is when the RUL code is loaded, possibly  along with some other things related to content in the save file.

So far as I know that doesn’t involve any double-loading, SC4 is too ruthlessly efficient for me to think they’d do such a thing.

I have a big problem here with SC4 initialization and I'm doing several tests to try to understand.  I asked the question to get some light and it really helped a lot, but it's not being 100% like you're saying.
When I complete the tests and have all the data, I'll open a thread to show what's happening to me and what exactly the problem is. 
Thank you all. 

[rsc204 21,808]

40 minutes ago, carlosmarcelo said:

I have a big problem here with SC4 initialization

If those problems are purely related to the speed (or lack thereof) of loading the game, there isn’t a lot you can do. The larger the plugins folder, the more time it’ll take and 2-3m to get into a city is pretty typical these days for anyone using the NAM Full Controller.

Adding an SSD if you don’t have one will make a big difference. But faster SSDs and even RAM Disks can’t do things any quicker than typical 500mb/s read drives.

DATPacking has reduced benefits for SSD users but do make things a little quicker. If you are using an older spinning disk, DATPacking can have a big impact though.

Outside of this, you are limited to the speed at which your machine can move data from The HDD into RAM/VRAM, although given modern super-fast devices are barely quicker, it’s clear to me we’ve gone past the point where the hardware is the bottleneck for most, it’s the game’s ancient code simply can’t take advantage of faster devices.

[Whte_rbt 1,431]

9 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Adding an SSD if you don’t have one will make a big difference. But faster SSDs and even RAM Disks can’t do things any quicker than typical 500mb/s read drives.

True, with one exception: If the machine has a slot for an m2 ssd then the speed boost is seriously noticable. If you're using a SATA connection then the above statement is correct.

[carlosmarcelo 975]

40 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Adding an SSD if you don’t have one will make a big difference. But faster SSDs and even RAM Disks can’t do things any quicker than typical 500mb/s read drives.

Believe me, the situation is absurd, so absurd, that I'm doing a lot of tests before I'm afraid it's something stupid that I'm not realizing.
Fact: On a defragmented SSD, the game takes over 1.5 minutes to load only the 12MB NAM 37 controller file without RHW. There's only this single file in the plugin folder. 
Please wait for me to open the new topic on the subject before sending suggestions, because I really will need it. 😅

[rsc204 21,808]

1 hour ago, Whte_rbt said:

True, with one exception: If the machine has a slot for an m2 ssd then the speed boost is seriously noticable.

I upgraded my SATA3 drive to an m2 one a few years back. The change from 550 to 1,800mb/s read is for me totally unnoticeable overall, specifically for loading times with SC4, it’s just not any faster.

Granted that’s a z97 Deluxe chipset with a Broadwell i7 chip, mated to 1600mhz DDR3, not the latest/fastest hardware, but those shouldn’t introduce bottlenecks given the bandwidth of the PCIe bus. Benchmark results look more positive, but in the real world, it just doesn’t feel any quicker for me.

[Hotwheeler 409]

Which one of the currently available SimCity 4 Deluxe versions are the best and have the highest chance on working on a new rig? I think there´s an Origin version, a GOG version and a Steam version? Some of them are patched and some aren´t, so which one to choose and is there a handy compendium on how to properly make SC4 Deluxe ready on a new PC and how to properly transplant old game files (and also things like graphics rules etc?

[twalsh102 1,601]

STAY AWAY from the Origin Version! It is un-patched and un-patchable (if you're interested in the specifics, take a look at this article: https://simtarkus.wordpress.com/2017/04/18/origin-nerfed-SimCity-4-situation-gets-worse/). All digital versions other than Origin comes fully patched. But if I'm not mistaken (I've never used Steam), after downloading and installing, the Steam version requires the Steam client to start the game, which means you have to be connected to the Internet. I highly recommend the GOG version (this is the version I use) because 1) It was super cheap when I bought it ($4.99 on sale) (if it isn't on sale when you decide to buy, just wait; GOG regularly puts SC4 on sale); and 2) It is DRM-free. If you do choose the GOG version, the default method to download involves installing and using the GOG Galaxy client. This just creates an extra layer of software that isn't necessary to play the game. Instead download the stand-alone version.

NOTE that there is NO difference in the actual game code from the various vendors. It is the same game code that was in the original CD version. The only difference is how the different vendors chose to package their "version."

There really isn't any magic in installing SC4 on a new PC, or moving your existing Plugins folder to the new installation (i.e. copy you current Plugins folder to a thumb drive, or an external drive; plug the thumb drive or external drive into your new PC; copy the contents of your old Plugins folder to the new Plugins folder created when SC4 was installed). I can't speak for versions other GOG as far as specific for installation. From GOG, you download a single installation file (setup_simcity_4_deluxe_edition_1.1.641_(24038).exe - approximately 1 GB in size), double-click the EXE file, and it does all the rest. You will likely need to reinstall any tools you want to use on the new PC

Depending on whether you buy a laptop (If you do this, you are better off getting one with a dedicated graphics card), or a full PC, sometimes it requires jumping through a couple of hoops to get the graphics card properly recognized. But there are topics and posts in several different places in the forums that can talk you through these hoops if you run into problems. Since I've never had to deal with this type of problem, with a new PC, I don't have the knowledge to give you any specifics on this. But never fear; I'm certain someone with the necessary knowledge will chime in.

[rsc204 21,808]

You can't use the disk-based versions if you have Windows 10 or newer, Origin can't get their shit together, but otherwise it makes no difference, all versions have the same code. I personally recommend GoG because I like DRM-Free gaming not attached to a stupid launcher, but there is nothing wrong with the Steam edition if you want to go that way. I'd be more focussed on trying to find it on sale because the $20 everyday price is just ridiculous for a game of this age. On sale it's more like $5, which is about what it's worth after all these years.

18 hours ago, Hotwheeler said:

is there a handy compendium on how to properly make SC4 Deluxe ready on a new PC and how to properly transplant old game files (and also things like graphics rules etc?

Any custom modifications you've made to Graphics Rules will presumably relate to the hardware of the OLD machine, so won't be relevant anymore. Unless you're upgrading your PC and keeping some of the old parts, namely the Video Card, I would advise against copying such files.

DO

• Make sure you properly install SC4 on your new computer, using the installer provided.
• Copy the Plugins and Regions folders from Documents\SimCity 4\ on your old machine.
  Best to use a USB Stick/External HDD, use Copy not Move, so if anything goes wrong you still have a copy of the data safe.
• You might need some files from the INSTALL DIR\Plugins too, if you've used this location.

DO NOT

• Simply copy the SC4 install folder from one PC to another, it may look like it works, but you may run into unexpected problems as a result.
• Modify the contents of the INSTALL DIR\Regions folder, ever!
  This simply contains the default and tutorial regions, as they came with the game, in case they need restoring.

After installing the game on the new machine, the Documents\SimCity 4\ folder will be created on your new machine. Now you can copy the contents which were part of the old install to here.

One caveat with regards to the regions, if you played with any of the Regions that came with the game, simply copying the data over can lead to problems. Let's say you had been playing with the San Fransisco region and wanted to continue with the new install. BEFORE you copy that region's folder, you must delete the corresponding folder (region) from the new install. Even if the file/folder names have changed, the ID's of the internal save files will conflict. In fact, because the filenames change when you name cities, it's almost guaranteed that you will end up with more than one save file for each city tile.

So for every one of the default regions you are copying over, remove the corresponding folder beforehand to avoid much hassle. Note this only applies to the regions that came with the game, any custom created/download regions you may have can just be copied over without thinking about this.

[SIM-ple Jack 17,444]

I notice that when I turn shadows on, only the shadows within my screen view come up. When I go to take pics, I constantly have to zoom in and out to get the area I see, on. Is there a mod that will get the shadows up, all at once?

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

17 minutes ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

Is there a mod that will get the shadows up, all at once?

I'm not sure, but you could try:

-BackgroundLoader:on

As listed here.

[SIM-ple Jack 17,444]

Is there a way to generate flying planes in a city, without actually building an airport? I've been through the effect list in LE, but other than helicopters, I didn't see anything but timed parked plane props. I'm basically looking for something I can put on 1 tile and bury under some trees.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

1 hour ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

Is there a way to generate flying planes in a city, without actually building an airport?

While not my area of expertise, you could try effect_small_runway, but that needs like 16 x 2 for the lot. You could also look at the generators @xannepan created in their JENXAIRPORT Air Traffic Controller BetaV2 files.

 

[monkeywater 910]

On 11/3/2021 at 3:40 PM, Silur said:

Is there a way to change the distance between contours in SC4?

How do you make those contours show up?

[Silur 3,304]

4 minutes ago, monkeywater said:

How do you make those contours show up?

Cntrl+Shift+C

[City_Slider 2,716]

20 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

Is there a way to generate flying planes in a city, without actually building an airport? I've been through the effect list in LE, but other than helicopters, I didn't see anything but timed parked plane props. I'm basically looking for something I can put on 1 tile and bury under some trees.

Remember the "Underground Airport" that i postet few Month ago? Deep deep under the Seaground.

[SIM-ple Jack 17,444]

18 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

While not my area of expertise, you could try effect_small_runway, but that needs like 16 x 2 for the lot. You could also look at the generators @xannepan created in their JENXAIRPORT Air Traffic Controller BetaV2 files.

 

No, those require a runway.

12 minutes ago, City_Slider said:

Remember the "Underground Airport" that i postet few Month ago? Deep deep under the Seaground.

I'm looking for something simple. It's just eye candy.

[City_Slider 2,716]

On 12/7/2021 at 9:06 PM, SIM-ple Jack said:

Is there a way to generate flying planes in a city, without actually building an airport? I've been through the effect list in LE, but other than helicopters, I didn't see anything but timed parked plane props. I'm basically looking for something I can put on 1 tile and bury under some trees.

If you asking this way... no, no chance. Sorry my Friend. You need to cheat about it.

About wut Planes are u talking?

[TheMurderousCricket 5,055]

What's the exemplar/code/address for the following buildings in the "PlopLot" cheat:

1. Avery Abode

2. Bungalow

I tried to be patient and bulldozed unwanted development over. To no avail.

I just want to plop these m#@%&׿s and be done with it...

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

That'll be these, I presume:

 

I believe you need to use the BuildingPlop to get a specific one. For Maxis growables, they are generally in families and I'm uncertain if a LotPlop would get the right building.

So, here they are by building names:

5 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

1. Avery Abode

R$$10x14_123EuroStdHouse2_01ED

 

5 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

2. Bungalow

There are more than one by that name.

• R$$10x14_123HouStdHouse1_00C9
• R$$10x14_123HouStdHouse2_00CA
• R$$10x14_123HouStdHouse3_00CB

 

So first you pick the building from the list, then chose an available lot size you want it to be on.

Ofc, plopping residential needs to be done on top of an existing grown residential lot of the same size, but even then it's subject to abandonment and if it does abandon, it will not revive no matter what you do amenities-wise.

[Cyclone Boom 16,875]

Just adding to what Cori said above...
 

48 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Ofc, plopping residential needs to be done on top of an existing grown residential lot of the same size, but even then it's subject to abandonment and if it does abandon, it will not revive no matter what you do amenities-wise.

 

It came to mind of the topic @smf_16 posted here:

This allows a saved city to be processed using their functional plopped residentials method for modifying SC4 saved games. As such, after plopping any residential, upload the city save file to his site for it to then get converted to have no abandonment issues. Of course, it'd be worth making a backup copy just in case.

[Tubthumper 499]

Quick question - when dealing with demand cap for industry, neighbor connections are a factor. Is that the number of connections MADE or the number of NEIGHBORS connections are made to?  For example, if I have a city tile with only 4 possible neighbor connections (NSEW), does it matter how many roads/ave/highways/rail/etc I have to each neighbor, or just 4 connections in general?  (I hope I made sense)... TIA

[TheMurderousCricket 5,055]

1 hour ago, preitman said:

Quick question - when dealing with demand cap for industry, neighbor connections are a factor. Is that the number of connections MADE or the number of NEIGHBORS connections are made to?

It's the number of neighbours and demand.

I personally like to keep neighbour connections down to a minimum to avoid eternal commuter bug. 

Connections are thoroughways and a signal for the game that it should propagate and average the data of the connected cities, but neither do they "magically" kickstart development nor generate more demand.

[Tubthumper 499]

Thanks much! Will keep that in mind

[monkeywater 910]

13 hours ago, preitman said:

Quick question - when dealing with demand cap for industry, neighbor connections are a factor. Is that the number of connections MADE or the number of NEIGHBORS connections are made to?  For example, if I have a city tile with only 4 possible neighbor connections (NSEW), does it matter how many roads/ave/highways/rail/etc I have to each neighbor, or just 4 connections in general?  (I hope I made sense)... TIA

There is math on this somewhere, multiple connections to the same neighbour does give improved cap relief over a single one, but not as much as to a separate city.

 

Further reading

 

 

https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=17968.0