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    Thanks @11241036! I have three options to choose from - perfect! :thumb:

    I get your point. We definitely don't want to get rid of all effects a traffic can bring (think no traffic effect on commercial zones... :O :dead:).

    Besides, I don't want to just completely get rid of the traffic effects on agriculture. It is quite an interesting challenge to try and work the cars around one's farms. I just think the effect is a tad too damaging than it should be.

    This is why I am more inclined to just edit out a thing or two in the SPAM or vannila .dat files, so I appreciate you named the property for me. *:yes: Since I don't have the iLives on me right now I'll test the files you provided first. Thank you. *:)

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    9 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    @CorinaMarie, do you have any ideas or experiences to share regarding the influence of traffic on farms? Sorry for putting you on the spot - I just know that agriculture is a powerful force in your game and you are a powerful force in agriculture. *;)

    Yep, I was troubled by this early on in my playing. Long ago, I found and installed the Farm Desirability MOD (which @11241036 linked above). I use it with the vanilla game as I've not tried SPAM yet.

    Back in June I also tweaked the next property in that same exemplar.

    The Trip Length Effect serves a similar purpose as the Traffic Effect, but in this case it's based on the 0 to 255 rating of the freight trip length. Since I control where a farm building grows based on initially allowing only one cell of a street or road to touch the new Ag zone until it develops, this often means there is no freight path yet if it's not convenient to be connected to my traffic network at the start.

    My adjustments make them happier even when they are further away from freight delivery locations. (I pretend that means the produce and/or livestock is used locally which is why being far from a port or city connection no longer upsets my Agrarian Sims.)

    Here's the revised numbers I use for Trip Length Effect. You can copy and paste them over the existing ones. (It'll still be 36 reps total.)

    0.000000,15.000000,15.000000,15.000000,30.000000,15.000000,45.000000,14.000000,60.000000,14.000000,75.000000,14.000000,90.000000,14.000000,105.000000,13.000000,120.000000,13.000000,135.000000,13.000000,150.000000,12.000000,165.000000,12.000000,180.000000,12.000000,195.000000,11.000000,210.000000,10.000000,225.000000,9.000000,240.000000,8.000000,255.000000,-15.000000

     

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

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    If the farms need to appear along the roadway itself (e.g., can't be spread out too far away from the roadway that has all of the traffic), you could create some short access roads that allow you to zone the farms a few tiles away from the main roadway itself. This creates a buffer that reduces the effect of the traffic itself. You can also line this buffer with flora, which captures air pollution and helps further reduce the impact of car traffic on the farms.

    E.g.

    R - B - F - B - IR - IR - IR
    R - B - F - B - IR - IR - IR
    R - B - F - B - IR - IR - IR
    R - S - S - S - IR - IR - IR
    R - B - F - B - IR - IR - IR
    R - B - F - B - IR - IR - IR
    R - B - F - B - IR - IR - IR

    R = Road, S = Street, B = Blank Tile, F = Flora Tile, IR = Farm Zone

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    🚜 Get well soon, Cori! 🚜

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    On 28/07/2021 at 2:10 AM, TheMurderousCricket said:

    There is no easy way to tell their EQ level though, is there?

    Yes, there is an Education data view, that shows green for highly educated residents, and red for illiterate residents.  That point on that red-green scale at which EQ exceeds 150, is not something I've ever tried to figure out.  I base my employment re-zoning and mass transit decisions on experiments, knowing that the overall shape of the game leads to high EQ .... and checking my Education data view for red and orange gaps.  No child left behind!  *:read:

    On 28/07/2021 at 2:10 AM, TheMurderousCricket said:

    The shift to CO$$+ was my next idea for redevelopment, albeit at an even later stage. *:yes: After the "I-M, I-HT, R$" character that is.

    A broad array of sectors generally provides the most resilient economy, though the sectors can be in neighbouring city tiles, too.

    Generally the biggest issues with CO$$ is to ensure that it's adjacent to high traffic, well away from pollution, near plazas, and within moderate commute of well educated sim residents of all three wealth levels (R$, R$$, R$$$).  I often feel like my SimCity 4 is an enormous game of tetris.  *:lol:

    15 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Hmm, I keep noticing that any traffic near farmlands greatly reduces the agricultural desirability and the number of jobs a farm can offer.

    It's really troublesome as any volume above 100 cars already has detrimental effects on the farm's wellbeing!

    Yes, agriculture is the opposite of commercial that way.  The corn has very sensitive ears.  *;)

    Agriculture is very sensitive to both Air Pollution and nearby traffic.  Weirdly, I get the impression agriculture doesn't mind Water Pollution at all!  *:P

    Here's what I do with my agriculture:

    • Zone the agriculture early in the game.
    • Set the farm back one or two tiles from the road, with a line of trees in the gap.
    • Put agriculture in backwater portions of the city, far away from highways and thoroughfares.
    • Important secret:  Heavy rail generates no traffic noise and no air pollution.  If you grow your farms so that the farm building is adjacent to the heavy rail, the freight automatically goes out on the rail, too.
    • A train station near your "reception desk" is a way of reducing car and bus traffic of agricultural workers.

    Yes, I know it's weird, light rail generates masses of traffic noise (and customers), whereas heavy rail is silent.  :rofl:

    At a guess, agricultural sensitivity to traffic noise is probably Tract-based, so that can be awkward to predict in advance.

    Note, however, that my agriculture is small bickies compared to what @CorinaMarie does.  She's the expert, and she taught me most of what I know about agriculture.  *:yes:

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    1 hour ago, Naomi57 said:

    Yes, there is an Education data view, that shows green for highly educated residents, and red for illiterate residents.

    Oh! That reminded me of this:

    *:)

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

    Are you new here? Check out the Introduction and Guide to Simtropolis.

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    Just wait and see @TheMurderousCricket ... even though SC4 is a great game and very addictive, eventually you'll get tired of it and return to good ol' SC3000 again *:thumb: That's what happened to me after having loads of fun with SC4 for a few years.

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    Ah, by all means! That is a thing well understood @SimCityHawk.

    I'm not forgetting our dear SC3000 clan. *;) Autumn will be a good time to dive back in there. Keep a free seat for me! *:ohyes:

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    Another curiosity has just happened. :lost:

    In my new city, one of my R$$ MySims keeps loosing jobs just a month or so after finding them. This is always accompanied by the "X's commute a no-go" message. What is completely crazy is the fact that this guy can't even maintain a job within a walking distance from his house!

    The area he is in did indeed have some "No job" zots in the past, but the situation seems to have stabilized. All buildings have access to roads and there are even two bus stops nearby.

    Interestingly enough, this guy is not moving out. He just keeps having 12 jobs per year but is apparently unfazed by the purported "poor" commute and his life-long quest of job hunting. What is even more ridiculous, is that the building info shows "Commute: Short".

    Should I just ignore this crank, or is there something I should address here?

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    That's a glitch I've never been able to track down the exact cause for. :O

    Sometimes just moving the MySim to a home on the other side of the street can help. I'd have to check, but I imagine I could write a Lua override to simply suppress that message, but if doing so we'd prolly want the Hums 'Hi Ho' Over New Job one ditched too.

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

    Are you new here? Check out the Introduction and Guide to Simtropolis.

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    6 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

    That's a glitch I've never been able to track down the exact cause for. :O

    Thanks Cori. It looks like a glitch, no doubt.

    Don't get too preocupied with it though. I don't mind MySims behaving oddly as long as the neighborhood as such is in a good shape.

    I want to ask another question now, which is - what drives the CO$$$ desire?

    I managed to create a nice skyscraper district in one of the cities and of course forgot how. :lost:

    Another city that I work on now has negative demand for CO$$$. My thought is that the health and education might still be too low for this developer to call for the workers but I don't know...

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I want to ask another question now, which is - what drives the CO$$$ desire?

    I managed to create a nice skyscraper district in one of the cities and of course forgot how. :lost:

    Another city that I work on now has negative demand for CO$$$. My thought is that the health and education might still be too low for this developer to call for the workers but I don't know...

    I've never paid enough attention to what conjunction of factors brings on the skyscrapers.  It just kinda happens.  First it dribbles in, and then slowly more and more.

    The most significant part of it relates to Growth Stage.  The skyscrapers you're referring to are probably Growth Stage 7 and 8.  Check out this list of buildings to see.

    The largest skyscrapers are 3x4 and 4x4, so you'll need to have a few of these high density large lots which actually catch the adjacent(ish) traffic volume to get High Customers.  3x4 and 4x4 lots are a wee bit trickier to catch traffic with, because the High Customers is measured from a grid square near the middle of the lot, and it depends on whether that grid square falls in the right tract.  The easiest way to find out is to just test it with low density 3x4 and 4x4 lots, and check that they get enough customers.

    The more difficult and finicky (but more precise) approach is to use "Status.txt" to determine exactly where the lot's key grid square is, and calculate it's tract corners.

    Quote

    Sample Status.txt
    |-----------------------------------------------------------
    | Query info for cell (41, 189) on 3/6/2121
    |-----------------------------------------------------------
    | Lot: (39, 188) 3x4, west-facing, state: occupied new, configuration: CS$$8_3x4_60003e80
    | Jobs $350.9 $$139.3 $$$25.8 - Travel Jobs $351 $$139 $$$26
    | Building: CS$$40x54_7ChiCinema_0526, 552 $$
    | Occupancy--building (tract): Cs$ 0% (0%), Cs$$ 93% (100%), 
    | Zoned: C###
    | Altitude: 253.4
    | Land value, intrinsic: 21, total: 148 (High)
    | Slope: 0.0
    | Powered: yes
    | Watered: yes
    | Traffic Volume: 255   Traffic Congestion: 0

    The biggest factor controlling Growth Stage is probably the regional population.  Demand Drives and Workforce Drives and Demand Caps and Tax Rates are other economic factors to consider.  Pushing any one of those factors, e.g. 0% tax, or using a demand mod, is not going to solve the entire equation.

    I just look after an active and diverse regional economy, and making sure my sims are employed well, and making sure that each workplace has a good number of real sim employees (using the Route Query tool), and it all just happens with time.  It's when a city stalls in it's growth that you need to find a solution ... and that solution is often found in the city's neighbours.

    To take an analogy from the African proverb, "It takes a village to raise a child", for SimCity 4, it takes a region to raise a skyscraper city.  *:D

    For the city tile that you want to turn into your Central Business District (CBD), it helps for it to have many economically prosperous neighbour cities, with several neighbour connections to each of those cities.  Several highways and light rail lines through the middle of your CBD helps, too.  *:yes:

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    2 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

    For the city tile that you want to turn into your Central Business District (CBD), it helps for it to have many economically prosperous neighbour cities, with several neighbour connections to each of those cities.

    Ah, okay. This city is two empty tiles away from any civilization, so from what you are saying it looks like a concern. :sly:

    But just to clarify - I don't have a problem with the growth stage or traffic and customer numbers. I lack demand for CO$$$.

    Perhaps I should develop one of the empty tiles first (developing it was indeed my plan anyway) and then come back to see what's up in my other city. I'd like to have two small CBDs really... I just hope it is possible!

    2 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

    using a demand mod, is not going to solve the entire equation.

    Why, of course. Who do you take me for? *:thumb:

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    2 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    This city is two empty tiles away from any civilization, so from what you are saying it looks like a concern. :sly:

    Yep, definitely!

    2 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I lack demand for CO$$$.

    Yes, a city without any neighbours will suffer that way.  When you look in the real world, and at history, prosperous businesses occur at the places of great interaction.  The classic cross-roads town is a simple small-scale example.  New York's beginnings is a similar example, at an international level, a cross-roads across nations.

    For SimCity 4, these real-life cross-roads are simplified down to simply neighbour connections with prosperous cities, which each support the economy of their neighbour.

    Even a neighbour city which is just a little agricultural community, is better than a completely empty neighbour city.

    3 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Perhaps I should develop one of the empty tiles first (developing it was indeed my plan anyway) and then come back to see what's up in my other city. I'd like to have two small CBDs really... I just hope it is possible!

    That sounds like a good plan.  *:yes:

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    I currently make some experiments with the bus network. Trying to maximize ridership numbers.

    I used to arbitrarily put bus stops where I thought they fit best. This time, however, I found a better (and cooler) way to get more Sims aboard.

    This time, I decided to use the route query tool to see where to and where from, my Sims drive their cars and only then build bus stops. This way, I was able to quickly identify any underserved areas.

    My initial observations point to the fact that there are two sources of mediocre passenger counts as far as the busses go. One - no bus stop at all. Two - the "I'm going the opposite direction" case.

    In this second scenario, a Sim does have a bus stop on their street but the street is open on both ends (no cul-de-sacs). Sim exits their home towards the perceived faster route which heads away from the bus stop. Kind of logical - if you want to go forward, then there's no point to turn back.

    In any case, this route voyerism seems to have good results. My current town has a positive income from transportation, outpacing costs by 100%. :thumb: What is also important is that this is a medium-sized city tile so the distances (read: fee per road tile) are quite small. In other words, this time it's the number of Sims and not the distance they travel that accounts for these profits!

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    9 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I currently make some experiments with the bus network. Trying to maximize ridership numbers.

    I used to arbitrarily put bus stops where I thought they fit best. This time, however, I found a better (and cooler) way to get more Sims aboard.

    This time, I decided to use the route query tool to see where to and where from, my Sims drive their cars and only then build bus stops. This way, I was able to quickly identify any underserved areas.

    Good one!  You're entering deeper into the game.  Route Query is also one of the keys to identifying businesses that are having trouble attracting sim employees, and residential buildings with high levels of unemployment ... even before the No Job Zot shows up.  It also helps identify the ways you can improve your transport infrastructure, to increase the pool of suitable workers for businesses.

    9 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    My initial observations point to the fact that there are two sources of mediocre passenger counts as far as the busses go. One - no bus stop at all. Two - the "I'm going the opposite direction" case.

    In this second scenario, a Sim does have a bus stop on their street but the street is open on both ends (no cul-de-sacs). Sim exits their home towards the perceived faster route which heads away from the bus stop. Kind of logical - if you want to go forward, then there's no point to turn back.

    Yep, sims hate to backtrack on their way to work.  Funny enough, humans tend to hate backtracking, too.  :ooh:

    9 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    In any case, this route voyerism seems to have good results. My current town has a positive income from transportation, outpacing costs by 100%. :thumb: 

    Well done, mass transit is a government monopoly in SC4, and with each sim having a "big brother" style transit smart card, there's lots of opportunity for tweaking and improving the transit systems with marvellous results.

    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smart_cards
      Some widely used contactless smart cards include Melbourne's myki, Sydney's Opal Card, London's Oyster card, South Korea's T-money, Hong Kong's Octopus card, Stockholm's Access card, Japan's Suica and Pasmo cards, Singapore's NETS FlashPay and EZ-Link cards, Manila's Beep cards, Nigeria's ETC Card, Paris's Calypso/Navigo, the Dutch OV-Chipkaart, Greater Toronto's (as well as Hamilton and Ottawa) Presto card and Lisbon's LisboaViva card
                        Oyster_Card.jpeg 220px-PersonalisedOctopusCard.jpg 

    The government knows where you live, and where you go, when you go, and how you get there.  :uhm:*:bunny:

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    Yeah... I remember that when I went to London, just prior to the Covid, I figured I won't be travelling much outside my hotel so I can just go ahead with the single-use tickets and be done with. I knew about the Oyster card but was like "meh".

    Of course, my fun-loving colleagues proved me wrong and we frequently boarded the "Ramada Inn - Fish and Chips" line (it's been called "Circle" once we left). I spent lots of money on the transit...

    Usually, it is possible to save up some of your travel allowance and I always managed to do so. London is the only city which brought me a loss. :sly:

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    I have just discovered that when you pause the game during a firework show, you can make it last indefinitely. *:party:

    As I write this, the game has been paused for five minutes and the fireworks just keep popping and popping.

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    It is not polite to double post. How about triple-posting then? :D

    But I have a serious question this time and would like to ask for your assistance. Our topic for today are railways. *;)

    I know it's probably hard to believe, but so far, I have rarely even built any A-to-Z rail network in any of my regions!

    I'm just not sure where should I start with regular rail, let alone elevated or high-speed networks. It's just black magic to me...

    For some reason, the SC4 railways seem somewhat unweildy to me... :lost: Requiring lots of space and taking forever to make a 90-degree turn or drive up a viaduct. *:P

    So, do you have any ideas or tips on how and where I could start building some railways that actually make sense? Thanks in advance!

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    It is not polite to double post. How about triple-posting then? :D

    No worries at all! Especially not in this case to ask a new question in your topic here. *:)


    As for your railway question, it depends on the scale for what you have in mind really. They can be central arteries for transport routes.

    One idea is to construct these main lines initially before developing a tile. They could even spread interconnected through the entire region. Then by building them initially before developing, it saves needing to build them once zoning establishes. Later on it a city, there then is scope to expand them further to create branch lines. Another possibility too is using the NAM's special drag patterns to make curved rail which looks more realistic.


    Cori will reply to you soon with more details about her railway railroad layouts... *;)

    Watch this space...

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    As @Cyclone Boom mentioned, I like to lay out the railroad throughout my region from the very start so each city tile is connected somewhat like they might be in the real world. The rail basically follows the paths which have a minimal amount of elevation changes and the least amount of zigs and zags.

    Here's a sample in the mostly undeveloped portion of my region. The rail lines are highlighted in orange:

    01 - Railroad in Unfinished Area of Region - 7010b-3444.jpg

     

    Now peeking inside one of my city tiles:

    02 - Railroad in E10 Town Overview - 7010b-3446.jpg

    ^ In the upper left(ish) part, I tend to make rail loops for dead end destinations and that's where small towns will go.

     

    One thing I've recently changed is how I make a wye intersection. This is my old method:

    03 - Old Wye Method - 7010b-3448.jpg

     

    And here I've made it more of a roundabout style. I like the look of it in the region view much better.

    04 - New Wye Method - 7010b-3447.jpg

     

    Another recent change I've made is using mostly STR instead of DTR. I feel it represents reality better for the pretend long distances between towns. Although the accepted standard is each cell in a city tile is about 52 feet across, I envision them 10 times larger such that each 10 cells is a mile. This is a concept know as compression in the world of model railroading. (Note: There is no difference in the capacity of the rail lines between Single Track and Double Track. It's merely a visual difference although trains passing thru each other head on does look a wee bit strange on STR.)

    One thing I haven't done in this region is to lay out a full interstate highway since my idea is more like the late 1800s where nearly all over land long distance travel was via passenger trains. So just a few ideas, and it's ultimately all however you decide what fits best.

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

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    @CorinaMarie - Sorry for the late reply. *:) My attention went elsewhere and "Overwhelmence" fell off the table for a while.

    Your system makes sense. Drafting lines before anything is build around them seems like the easiest solution. :lost: At least it doesn't involve mandatory large-scale redevelopments at inconvenient times.

    I can't think of anything better really...

    On 30.10.2021 at 8:18 PM, CorinaMarie said:

    Although the accepted standard is each cell in a city tile is about 52 feet across, I envision them 10 times larger such that each 10 cells is a mile.

    I myself like to reinterpret and warp the game space this way. *:thumb:


      Edited by TheMurderousCricket  

    Corrected the final sentence because it didn't make too much sense!
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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    On 31/10/2021 at 2:27 AM, TheMurderousCricket said:

    But I have a serious question this time and would like to ask for your assistance. Our topic for today are railways. *;)

    I know it's probably hard to believe, but so far, I have rarely even built any A-to-Z rail network in any of my regions!

    I'm just not sure where should I start with regular rail, let alone elevated or high-speed networks. It's just black magic to me...

    For some reason, the SC4 railways seem somewhat unweildy to me... :lost: Requiring lots of space and taking forever to make a 90-degree turn or drive up a viaduct. *:P

    Yes, rather like Cori and CB, I build my heavy rail and light rail at the start of each city tile, alongside my highways and bus rapid transit routes, focusing on high demand routes that are readily suited for ideal commute journeys from home to work.

    Connections are also important, the inter-city and suburban heavy rail needs to link up with urban light rail or bus rapid transit at the workplace end, to make it truly productive for attracting large numbers of commuters.  Sims don't mind using a variety of different mass transit connections in each commute.

    One of the weirdnesses of SimCity 4, is that heavy rail generates no noise, no pollution, and no customers.  Light rail, buses, and cars, all generate noise, pollution, and customers, which is important for developing healthy commercial districts.  Heavy rail is ideal for servicing agricultural and industrial zones.  Light rail is ideal for the final leg of the journey in CBD/downtown districts.

    This City Beautiful video covers the issue of connections and station environment rather well, and these real-life issues really do translate substantially into public transit design in SimCity 4.

    Quote

     

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    8 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

    One of the weirdnesses of SimCity 4, is that heavy rail generates no noise, no pollution, and no customers.

    Maybe the reasoning here was that heavy rail transports people over large distances, doesn't let them out before they reach their stops (not like the trams would, though :lost:) and swishes by rather quickly compared to other forms of transport that you mentioned, which involve moving at reduced speeds, honking and revving when stationary.

     

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    I have another, different problem to solve now. I think I know how to approach it, but I'd like to consult it first.

    The number of parks, ponds, streams and decorations I have gathered in my game folder is over the roof...

    While I am quite good at managing my budget and have already reduced the maintenance costs of some items, there are so many of them that they still put some of my towns in fiscal problems. >.<

    After all, the game's finances have not been designed to support anything more than the vannila park/decor set. I am not surprised that tax income is insufficient to pay for the extra items that should have never been there.

    My idea is to reduce the costs of some items but... some of these items are already present in my cities en masse! :O I just can't remove all of them now! This is why I'd like to try these steps:

    1. Create duplicated instances of the chosen items, just like police stations in ModPacc Zero.

    2. Modify expenses (and profits! *:ohyes:) for the chosen items.

    3. Over time, remove all "vanilla" instances of the relevant objects.

    Sounds good?

    ________

    Edit:

    Looks like I can't accomplish this on my own... :meh:

    I started to make some budget tweaks to change the cost of PEG Ponds to zero. I copied the files and worked on these copies.

    Then, I wanted to test if my files work fine and deleted the source material.

    The instances of original PEG's ponds turned into brown boxes (which I actually expected to see) but... my versions of the reduced-cost ponds have disappeared from the menu!

    I can't see them in any of the in-game menus, so it's not like they are in the wrong place or something. What did I do wrong?

    • Like 1

    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    5 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    What did I do wrong?

    Prolly goofed somewhere. *:P

    How did you do the copying? All via Reader? (That's how I'd go about it, but many peeps like using PIM-X to make the copies which handles the various TGI references.)

    Did you give the Building Exemplar a new TGI? Did you update Rep 13 of the 0x00000000 entry in the LotConfig to point to the new Building exemplar?

    When you deleted the source files, did those include Item Icons that are not in your new file(s)?

    There're all kinds of little interrelationships between parts and a mistake for any could cause them to not appear in the menu. *;)

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

    Are you new here? Check out the Introduction and Guide to Simtropolis.

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    5 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

    Prolly goofed somewhere. *:P

    :)

    5 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

    How did you do the copying? All via Reader?

    Yes. Opened up the original, then "save as" for each file.

    5 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

    Did you give the Building Exemplar a new TGI?

    I assume you mean the "New group and instance" step? In this case, I did.

    5 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

    Did you update Rep 13 of the 0x00000000 entry in the LotConfig to point to the new Building exemplar?

    Ermmm... no. *:???: Sounds like it might be it! What should I do to fix it?

    6 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

    When you deleted the source files, did those include Item Icons that are not in your new file(s)?

    Yes, but I copied the source in its entirety, without removing or changing the icons in any way. Besides, when the source is in the folder, I can actually see the icons for both original and duplicated instance.

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    12 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I started to make some budget tweaks to change the cost of PEG Ponds to zero. I copied the files and worked on these copies.

    Then, I wanted to test if my files work fine and deleted the source material.

    The instances of original PEG's ponds turned into brown boxes (which I actually expected to see) but... my versions of the reduced-cost ponds have disappeared from the menu!

    An alternative option, if you'd like an alternative, is to introduce a "Petrol Tax" by putting a  Monthly Fares per Sim per Tile  value on  Car  travel.  I've heard it has no ill effects.

    In a similar way, you can raise the fares on  Bus  or  Train  travel, to help pay for your ponds and other goodies.  *:D

    large.5ee035a0e730d_TSCT-TrafficSimulato

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    Thanks @Naomi57. I know of this option but I'd prefer to edit out the lots, so I don't have to put up with that in the future, you know. *;) Besides, I can change some other properties while there.

    @CorinaMarie, is this the value you were referring to? At least this is what I figured out from your tip. *;)

    value.jpg.55bdcb47f795c9c035c9da9762ae1dd8.jpg

    • Yes 3

    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    13 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I assume you mean the "New group and instance" step? In this case, I did.

    Yeah, I was referring to all 3 values, but I generally only generate a new Instance ID (which then does make the whole TGI different.)

     

    12 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    @CorinaMarie, is this the value you were referring to? At least this is what I figured out from your tip. *;)

    Yep. That's the place. You'll notice the initial value after you did the Save As will still have the IID of the original Building Exemplar. Edit that to match the new IID and that'll prolly be the where the trouble was.

    The reason this is needed is when you go to plop (or grow a growable) lot the game actually does it as a Lot Plop (or Lot Grow internally) and only then does it go looking for the Building Exemplar. For ploppables, if it can't find the right building exemplar it also then can't find the item icon so that would prevent it showing in the menu.

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

    Are you new here? Check out the Introduction and Guide to Simtropolis.

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    I just made a mistake and somehow edited the cost of the ponds for already existing instances which resulted in phantom cost remaining in the budget...

    So I had to remove the pond plugin from my game folder and raze all ponds from my regions...

    I feel tired and irritated. :boggle: :cry: I'll report back when I rest a bit.

    • Sad 1

    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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