[2016] Lot Editor and Plug-in Manager - Forum Archive

[Dreadnought 8,231]

Yo, guys --

There were two specific exemplars -- that seemed to me -- to be tied to the theory:

Building Value

Worth

I read some long-winded thesis on a website somewhere back in the Dark Ages that expounded a whole formula for how the "income" was based on a "tax structure formula."  It was tied into the lot exemplars / properties.  He seemed to think he knew a great deal about the system -- but didn't really explain very much.  He was more of a philosopher than an economist!!

But looking back -- it seems to be that those two properties MUST be tied to the generation of tax income. 

My curiosity stems from one particular lot.  Back in ancient times, the "HK" team produced a building called the "Kong Building".  It was lotted as a grow or a plop -- 2x2 -- and was classed to provide IHT jobs.  I stumbled across it when rsc204 started to teach me lotting.  I was looking for variety in my industrial zones and this particular building seemed to fill the need.  Anything with a different look and some IHT jobs was a winner!

Turns out -- it also generates tons of money!!  If you plop four of these buildings, scattered around a large map tile, your city will NEVER go broke!

I like to build functional cities -- but my new interest in realism and custom content comes at an expensive price !!  You can debate the ethics of "cheats" as much as you like, but cities "in the red" don't develop very well.  The Kong Building is my way of maintaining the pretense of a functioning economy.

But I have been unable -- with my meager knowledge -- to figure out how this building generates the income, when others do not.

It MUST have something to do with the worth / value of the building / lot -- AND -- the size of the lot footprint.

There are times when I wish the actual designers had explained some of their reasoning!

[Edvarz 1,985]

Glad to be of help!

As far as I know there are only a couple of ways to get income from a building, via taxation or a business deal, the "Worth" property only determines the amount of money your city will have to pay if the building is destroyed in a disaster or the cost to plop a non-ploppable lot via the "LotPlop" cheat; from what I've seen, this value is usually identical to the "Bulldoze Cost". Also, I don't think the lot footprint has anything to do with tax collection.

12 hours ago, Edvarz said:

Actually, the "Building Value" is the property that determines a building's tax income

About taxation, I'm afraid I was ambiguous in my first response (english is not my mother tongue, and even though I've spoken it for years I still make silly mistakes ) The taxes collected from a building are based upon the "Building Value" property, there's no such thing as "a building's tax income" so Building Value is the property you may want to modify for a normal RCI lot. When I have to edit values manually, I use a helpful spreadsheet contained in this pack to make sure the pollution stats and building value are balanced.

Some buildings can also generate income by business deals, an example of this is Paeng's Parking lots I don't know if this is the case with your building, I'm not even sure if you can have buildings with jobs that also have business deals included.

In any case, the relevant values for taxation are contained in the building exemplar, not in the lot exemplar, even if the lot doesn't have a visible building (like the aforementioned parking lots).

[Dreadnought 8,231]

2 minutes ago, Edvarz said:

Glad to be of help!

As far as I know there are only a couple of ways to get income from a building, via taxation or a business deal, the "Worth" property only determines the amount of money your city will have to pay if the building is destroyed in a disaster or the cost to plop a non-ploppable lot via the "LotPlop" cheat; from what I've seen, this value is usually identical to the "Bulldoze Cost". Also, I don't think the lot footprint has anything to do with tax collection.

About taxation, I'm afraid I was ambiguous in my first response (english is not my mother tongue, and even though I've spoken it for years I still make silly mistakes ) The taxes collected from a building are based upon the "Building Value" property, there's no such thing as "a building's tax income" so Building Value is the property you may want to modify for a normal RCI lot. When I have to edit values manually, I use a helpful spreadsheet contained in this pack to make sure the pollution stats and building value are balanced.

Some buildings can also generate income by business deals, an example of this is Paeng's Parking lots I don't know if this is the case with your building, I'm not even sure if you can have buildings with jobs that also have business deals included.

In any case, the relevant values for taxation are contained in the building exemplar, not in the lot exemplar, even if the lot doesn't have a visible building (like the aforementioned parking lots).

Yo, guy --

I've got you covered!!

I understand that the building itself (or the lot) does not generate any direct income.  For game purposes -- it uses the building value property to generate tax dollars.

From an economists viewpoint -- a city manger or comptroller would consider taxes to be "income" for the city.

Therefore -- if you want more money in your budget -- you would set a building's "value" to a higher number.

It's all a matter of semantics -- and I may have been a bit ambiguous, as well.

Thanks, again --

[Dreadnought 8,231]

2 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Edit:

There are a number of other values you may need to edit in Reader. Honestly without knowing the exact lot you are editing, it's really hard to say exactly which properties need amending. Already I sense a huge can of worms rumbling.

As such, I wouldn't recommend using Reader to edit lots, it's the quickest way to do things, but only if you are very comfortable with modding. Much better to download/install SC4Tools. That way you can stop mucking about with Hex and use a friendly editor that has includes descriptions of everything.

Yo --

I have downloaded "Tools" and the required dependency system to operate it -- mainly because it is compatible with WIN 2000.  Looking it over -- the transit enabler function will be most welcome!!

Thanx, again, my friend.

[Dreadnought 8,231]

Yo, guys --

I found the smoking gun !!

The "Building Value" is the determining factor.  I had been searching in the wrong place.  The data was not in the lot file -- it was in the descriptor file.

The building value was set at $3,220K !!!

No wonder Kong Industries is such a money maker !!!

[adambailey39 86]

so how do i make to LOD bigger or the lot smaller? still cant figure it out

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Do you have Maxis' Plugin Manager and the Lot Editor at all? You'll need these tools, and any experience and familiarity with them will help, of course.

If you have these tools and know the basics, the easiest way would be to start with a lot that already has an invisible building on it - for example, Maxis' open grass 1x1. Then you'd use the Plugin Manager to turn any model you'd like to use into a prop. In the Lot Editor, you can put this prop on the lot, and since props may extend beyond the edges of the lot (as long as their centre point is inside the lot), you'd get the desired result.

One problem is that the Lot Editor will only offer props that will fit onto the currently opened lot. Therefore, you may have to enlarge the lot (e.g. to 6x6) temporarily in order  to be able to select the desired prop in the first place. However, once it's on the lot, you can shrink the lot again.

 

[adambailey39 86]

ahhh thank you! i got it.

[VeeTHis 71]

Custom lot thumbnails

How do I make custom lot thumbnails for my custom lots? Like, some buildings in the menu have a custom thumbnail and not a boring picture of the front of the building. How do I make those custom thumbnails? Do I have to do something in the plugin manager?

I hope someone can tell me how

[vester_DK 477]

Here is a Photoshop file that I uses for icons:

Paste you image in the folder Image.

The image size is 44x44px that is copied 4 times.

Icons.psd

[Urban Vibravant 815]

This program will.

This is a tutorial on how to photoshop the image yourself. Hope this helps   

Download the psd file @vester_DK just posted. It already has the borders made. Which btw Vester thank you!

 

[ussoldier2002 109]

My BAT's have stopped showing up in Plug in Manager

For some reason my BAT's have stopped showing up in the Plug in Manager after I export. The SC4MODDEL file is in my plugin folder after I export but it is not showing up in the plug in manager. I have tried deleting it, then refitting LOD's, then re-exporting. This has happened on two projects in a row now. Not sure what to trouble shoot next.

[Ro-Bo 183]

One thing I can think of is to make sure your sc4model files are directly under \Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins folder. Not inside other folder that is inside the plugin folder.

[ussoldier2002 109]

6 hours ago, Ro-Bo said:

One thing I can think of is to make sure your sc4model files are directly under \Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins folder. Not inside other folder that is inside the plugin folder.

No, it's in the plugins folder directly. For the life of me I can't figure out what is going on here.

[ussoldier2002 109]

Ok, so I tried something. I removed everything from my plugins folder and then re-exported what I was working on. I am beginning to think I have something in there that is making my PIM act wonky.

[T Wrecks 10,210]

For the model file to be visibe in the Plugin Manager view, the .sc4model file must contain an XML file. Maybe the export somehow failed to insert that file?

[rsc204 21,866]

If you aren't familiar with the inner workings of the SC4 files, then you can always upload the model somewhere. It would make the problem much easier to ascertain.

[VeeTHis 71]

How to tell what custom dependincies your custom lot uses

I was making a lot once, and used some custom prop stuff for it. Mainly custom benches for the front of the building (for some reason they were not showing up in the game) and I could tell what prop pack it was from, because it said SFBT in the prop browser. But... I also added custom Flora... but could not for the life of me find out what that custom Flora was part of. Someone told me to use Ilive's Reader, but... I don't really know how to use it... so can someone please tell me how to find what dependencies your custom lot has using Ilive's Reader? Thanks.

[cogeo 960]

That's quite easy, the LD file (generated by the Lot Editor) contains a list of the external plugins required, ie the "dependencies".

[ussoldier2002 109]

On 6/11/2016 at 6:38 AM, rsc204 said:

If you aren't familiar with the inner workings of the SC4 files, then you can always upload the model somewhere. It would make the problem much easier to ascertain.

Ok, I might have to do that. I discovered I have a new issue now though. I built a generic baseball stadium a little while back. I started a new one recently and when I exported it the new one replaced the old one. When I remove the new one the old one reverts back. I had the same issue a while back with the Polo Grounds and Ebbets Field and thought I had it fixed but alas I guess I don't. I have a MAC that I use for work and I think I am going to start BATing on that computer. Do you guys have any thought about what could possibly be going on? I am pretty sure it's not a texture issue that I thought I had before.

 

On 6/9/2016 at 2:13 AM, T Wrecks said:

For the model file to be visibe in the Plugin Manager view, the .sc4model file must contain an XML file. Maybe the export somehow failed to insert that file?

That's possible. Where would that file be?

[T Wrecks 10,210]

This sounds like all your models are exported with the same IID, resulting in an ID conflict.

The XML file is inside the .sc4model file. If you open the model file, you should see the S3D and FSH files (those are used by SC4 to display the model visually) inside, as well as an XML file, which contains some basic parameters such as name and ID of your model and makes the model file visible for the Plugin Manager.

Should your problem be that the XML file is somehow not added during export, there would be a workaround. However, it sounds like your problem is the ID conflict mentioned above.

[ussoldier2002 109]

On 6/13/2016 at 2:45 AM, T Wrecks said:

This sounds like all your models are exported with the same IID, resulting in an ID conflict.

The XML file is inside the .sc4model file. If you open the model file, you should see the S3D and FSH files (those are used by SC4 to display the model visually) inside, as well as an XML file, which contains some basic parameters such as name and ID of your model and makes the model file visible for the Plugin Manager.

Should your problem be that the XML file is somehow not added during export, there would be a workaround. However, it sounds like your problem is the ID conflict mentioned above.

Thanks brother. I will look into it tonight. I will let you know what I find out.

[ussoldier2002 109]

On 6/13/2016 at 2:45 AM, T Wrecks said:

This sounds like all your models are exported with the same IID, resulting in an ID conflict.

The XML file is inside the .sc4model file. If you open the model file, you should see the S3D and FSH files (those are used by SC4 to display the model visually) inside, as well as an XML file, which contains some basic parameters such as name and ID of your model and makes the model file visible for the Plugin Manager.

Should your problem be that the XML file is somehow not added during export, there would be a workaround. However, it sounds like your problem is the ID conflict mentioned above.

Here is what I found. I opened the sc4model file. The Res Key on two of Recreation Park and baseball field layout are identical. Here is what it looks like.

ResKey="0x5ad0e817-0xff76ec0c-0x00030000"

If I change that in the file will it fix my problem?

[nos.17 5,255]

Also, some thing to keep in mind for the future: always mod with an empty plugin folder and only add the dependencies you want to use. That way, it is super simple to keep track of what you used, and it also limits you (in a way) to the number of dependencies used. 

[VeeTHis 71]

1 hour ago, nos.17 said:

Also, some thing to keep in mind for the future: always mod with an empty plugin folder and only add the dependencies you want to use. That way, it is super simple to keep track of what you used, and it also limits you (in a way) to the number of dependencies used. 

This post is dead. I learned how to find the dependencies using iLive's Reader. Thanks for the help, though!

[Tyrone9876 2]

Landmark > Growable ?

I'm pretty new here but Ive been using SC4Tool, LotEditor and SC4PIM for a few months now so I have a basic understanding of them.

But my question is this: How can I easily turn a Landmark into a growable?

 

So far the only method I found by myself is to edit the .SC4Desc file in SC4Tool and remove some properties out of it, then open it once more in SC4PIM and let it 'recompute properties' on the file so it adds other properties needed for a growable.

Great, thats pretty simple and quick for the .SC4Desc file, no issues there.

 

HOWEVER, when it comes to the .SC4Lot file I encounter issues, mainly because SC4Tool is not showing the 'WealthTypes' and 'PurposeTypes' properties which are needed for any growable lot, and other times it does show them but they are empty and I can't edit them.

Then I open this .SC4Lot file with SC4PIM and I try to let it 'recompute stage', but this never works out because I always get an error about something 'missing' and it simply doesn't work.

So unlike the .SC4Desc, then .SC4Lot cannot be edited with either SC4Tool or SC4PIM to turn it easily and quickly into a growable lot, which leaves me with one last choice ->

Creating a completely new growable lot in SC4PIM and re-doing the entire lot manually by placing the new building and adding all new props myself, this is VERY time consuming and can take 30minutes to one hour just to make a realistic lot from scratch.

 

So can someone please help me out here, is there an easier way to turn a landmark Lot into a Grownable Lot without creating a new lot from scratch?

There are so many fine buildings to be found on this website, but the sheer amount of landmarks that I have to create new Lots for just to turn them into growable is going to take me forever through this method

 

Thanks.

 

ps: yes I did a search first to find more about this topic, but the only thing I found was a post from 2005 but it seemed very outdated and not all that helpful.

[Tyrone9876 2]

My apologies, seems there was another topic that I did not notice before that talked about my exact issue and was greatly helpful, allowing me to copy Lot Config Properties through the use of yet another program (Ilive Reader), this will make things so much easier for me.

Though 15 posts down in that topic I learned that PIMX allows you to do this as well, which is even easier than using Ilive Reader.

Sry for the post, I'm still learning and searching so forgive my noobness

[Fantozzi 4,068]

*Deleted*

Sorry, didn't see that has all been discussed here.

 

 

[Tyrone9876 2]

Rotate entire lot (building, props, textures) ?

Lets say I have a 2x3 lot but I also want my game to have a 3x2 of the very same type, currently the only way I can do this is by creating a new lot and placing the building, textures and props manually all over again, basically I'm creating an entirely new lot from scratch.

Though I'm wandering if there isn't an easy way to simply rotate an entire lot with building, textures and props all included in that rotation, basically the same 2x3 lot as before except everything is turned 90° making it a 3x2 lot.

Is this possible?

 

ps: I'm not talking about rotating a single object here, I'm specifically talking about turning an entire lot which would not only rotate objects, but also move them depending on where their correct placement should be in that 90° rotation.

[rsc204 21,866]

There is no easy shortcut to this problem. Because when you rotate everything, the positioning of all the props will need altering. There is nothing stopping you working out a mathematical formula and manually editing the positions of everything using HEX. However, getting that going would take a lot of work.

The simplest solution is probably to open it in the Lot Editor. Move the props about first, then change the lot size. But even this has difficulties. Best to make the lot 3x3 when editing it. Then scale it back to 3x2 once you've got everything into position.