Additional Public Transit

[andreharv 1,197]

 

@Mr_Maison As mentioned, love your subway cars and I will be relying on you heavily for modeling (if you are so willing and if I can get my act together).  As far as integrating rail and subway, I am somewhat of a stickler for the separation of networks.  In Boston, where I'm from, there are Trams (green line) Train (amtrak) and Metro (MBTA red orange blue etc).  IMHO, they all seem to serve different purposes.  For example, while I imagine there may be underground amtrak stations, Im sure they are not common.  Green line (tram) has numerous level crossings but those are not common or existent with above ground metro nor are they nearly as fast and they stop at all the traffic lights.  All this to say, I will try to make sure that an above ground metro has a distinct AI so that it is not entirely redundant to conventional rail or tram.  Also, metro would not have outside connections.

@boformer <assumption>  Modeling the subway will be the easy (fun) part (just requires a lot of time and a portion of my sanity) but models and textures would fill in the tunnels and train models quite nicely.  Since subways are a netinfo, there should be properties to control how vehicles and pedestrians are displayed underground.</assumption>

My biggest concern is the AI and the lack thereof.  If I could replace the SubwayAI, I could allow for the improved metro network to connect to existing Subway or replace it altogether.  Either way, I will probably be stealing a lot of code from TrainTrackAI.

@hbn This will be a separate network type altogether.  It is not a way to connect existing rail to subway but rather to allow subway to go above ground.  I still won't connect to rail.  Bridge selection would be in another mod altogether (ie Network Skins or sth)  @boformer was tremendously helpful in providing me with what is required to build custom bridges but making them dynamically available would be complicated since it would involve selecting pillars and selecting the road type.  For example, with the standard suspension bridge, the pillars are not a part of the road but the cables are so they both would have to be replaced if you wanted, say, an arch bridge.

Bidirectional tracks are used for the stations and they seem to work nicely.  The only thing I haven't tested is how traffic behaves for longer lengths of bidirectional track and to that I am not entirely sure.  I have had situations where on longer stations, trains did get locked up.  While some people would wise up and revise their layout, many people would just complain and say the track is 'broken'.  Nonetheless, common sense goes a long way when using single rail (which might be why the devs never added it).                                                   

[mikamaty 47]

 Here in Dortmund (in the whole Ruhrgebiet) we have a Stadtbahn.

This is a system which has tunnels in the city centre and outside the city centre it is over the ground or it has bridges. Furthermore we have the S-Bahn Rhein-Ruhr (normal train system). Some Stadtbahn-lines use some of this tracks.

[Macronomicus 128]

That sounds like an epic undertaking!  I hope you're showered in treasures and goodness to propel you forward!

I admit to long staring at the little dots of people in the metro wishing we could jump down there and see them, or have some above ground segments which is common when metro's get near certain watery zones.  In Miami where I lived for several years, all three of our MT rail systems were 100% above ground, the mini-metro downtown, the metro, and the double decker tri-rail, all three had distinct tracks/cars which didn't intersect.

 

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

My biggest question is if there is support for texturing the metro trains with lights and everything. Subways definitely need lighting. The vanilla game already do not support tail lights on regular trains for example...so I can just imagine what if at all we can do with metros. Did anyone take a look at the metro model textures if there's any?

[andreharv 1,197]

I would imagine the models would be minimal at best...probably a line of squares.  As far as tail lights are concerned, one possible reason for the lack of this is due to the fact that when a train gets to a terminus and changes direction, the tail lights would have to be converted to headlights and that may not be possible.  In the vanilla game, one set of lights is off on one end of the train and the forward facing engine has its on. When the train changes direction they switch.

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

5 hours ago, andreharv said:

I would imagine the models would be minimal at best...probably a line of squares.  As far as tail lights are concerned, one possible reason for the lack of this is due to the fact that when a train gets to a terminus and changes direction, the tail lights would have to be converted to headlights and that may not be possible.  In the vanilla game, one set of lights is off on one end of the train and the forward facing engine has its on. When the train changes direction they switch.

It would be cool if somehow that could be mirrored and both ends will always be on but the back end will switch to break lights while the front switches to headlights etc. as normal.

[Macronomicus 128]

yeah I dont think there is much of a model, the line of squares sounds about right, man it would be cool to ride it with the cims but thats a lot of stuff not in the game, tunnels, trains visible cims seated/standing on metros etc.  seems like loads of work right?

[Tim The Terrible 586]

Everytime I see new images I get a mini heart-attack (the good ones) but that's just me.

Anyway, is there a way to get a train track that uses the concrete bridge mesh of the roads? The default mesh looks like something from the 30's so it would be nice to have a bit more modern mesh to use arround airports and  stuff like that. Using the road bridge mesh just seemed like the most easy option, which is probably still a pain in the ass

Can't wait!

[andreharv 1,197]

@Tim The TerribleNew bridges are most def doable but there is no easy way to toggle between them so it would require cloning the network x number of times in the menu but just changing the bridge which would be kinda silly imo.  Most def new elevated subway/metro will have all new everything (to your point, the existing elevated rails look like they used to carry Ford Model Ts and WWI tank parts lol.)  The metro will have updated new tracks/models, etc.  As far as modeling them, everything about developing this game is a PITA so don't worry.  In fact, cloning the vanilla bridges for new roads was the hardest part of all because CO does not make their models available for modifications so I had to painstakingly replicate them from scratch...This alone took literally months to get right (and it's still not perfect).  Looking forward, I see a great divide between players in different regions/countries and what they expect this stuff to look like.  Being from 'Merica, all our public transit is either dirty or...nonexistent so I will try to keep an open mind to what people are used to and make something everyone can enjoy .

[Tim The Terrible 586]

Awesome to hear about your plans for the new metro! All I want I the option to build something modern of something old and grungy, I don't need endless options to be satisfied.

But you're saying you made a mesh from scratch, but why make it look like the default one, why not make it completely custom? Is there anything that forces you to use the Steampunkish 1930's mesh?

[andreharv 1,197]

Well the main reason is transparency.  The goal of this mod (and the NExt) is to add new options in such a way that users cannot tell the difference.  Ironically, we actually get the least requests for style changes when we go with the more default looking style, supposedly because it is more of what people are used to.  However, we are coming to the place where we are creating all new content so there is no default to fall back on so you can expect more original work.  For example, all the tunnel interiors and the 8L pillars and cables were custom designs along with all the new ped roads we are releasing.  Not to mention, everything we make must connect seamlessly to the vanilla networks so they don't stand out like a sore thumb...but like everything else with these projects, they are a work in progress.

[Tim The Terrible 586]

Ah I understand completely. I will just wait patiently then

Another thing: depending on when single track will be released, I would like to make a serious non-piece-of-crap Island Platform train station (if I can find the time) to go along with the release. I'm already working on a Dutch station from my home town which has a 2+1 layout so that might be fun. Was planning on making a mod-free version too.

I'm also still wondering when we're going to get custom catenaries for the railroads. Is it on your list of will boformer add it to Network Skins?

[andreharv 1,197]

Believe it or not, the 1L rail catenaries were built from scratch as well.  They should be potentially replaceable with network skins if that mod is set up to handle building and prop placement.  Subways will not have catenaries (I personally dislike them) but will rather have a 3rd rail (fried cims sold separately).

[boformer 3,169]

3 hours ago, andreharv said:

New bridges are most def doable but there is no easy way to toggle between them so it would require cloning the network x number of times in the menu but just changing the bridge which would be kinda silly imo.

Actually it's not that difficult with a NetworkSkins-like approach: Detouring the rendering code.

There are a few challenges:

• Performance (only use arrays, ints...)
• Loading textures and meshes (basically what NExt does)

After that it's just one line of game code that has to be replaced. The boilerplate is already included in the NetworkSkins code, I just don't have the time and motivation.

[andreharv 1,197]

I feel you on that one.  

[bboybrian 0]

Nice I've wanted this in the Game for A While

 

[bboybrian 0]

Can you Make this Compatible with More Train Tracks Mod?

 

[bboybrian 0]

Can you also Make the Mod Compatible With Sharp Junctions Angles Mod?

 

[HipHop01 21]

Would it be possible to make a 2 way highway so that when I or others make highways, it doesn't look like a mess?

[andreharv 1,197]

YES! This mod is compatible with EVERYTHING and makes all your cities look better than RL and makes you rich and will fix your broken marriage!  In theory...never mind it wont do any of those things (especially the marriage part) but now that I have your attention, brief update on some minor changes.  I have teamed up with @BloodyPenguin to deliver these delicious bits (so it won't be a part of the NExt **collective sigh in 3...2...**). This will allow for more room to grow on this project without winding up with something too bulky.  With that said, we have been working at present to pull the existing 1L rail into a new mod.  BloodyPenguin has also convinced me that it would be nice to see a 2L oneway which at first I was skeptical but after creating it I must say, I was so thrilled with the result, I filled a whole map tile with rail and stations and just watched trains overtaking one another for about 30 minutes...So once we have a new platform to launch you will be seeing this stuff in game.  I would show some pics of the 2L oneway but without seeing the trains in motion, it would be rather useless.  Nonetheless, you shouldn't have much longer to go.  I have said that a half dozen times but...you really don't.  Stay tuned...

[Bad Peanut 826]

@andreharv if you're including the single track station tracks I could make a station that can be released alongside the mod (like when elevated stations was released)

[andreharv 1,197]

I would be eternally grateful and I couldn't think of a better person.  You're stations are awesome!  

[Bad Peanut 826]

add me on steam, I've already got bloodypenguin http://steamcommunity.com/id/badpeanut9

[andreharv 1,197]

We are already friends lol  Oops forgot to mention.  I'm Lazarus*Man on steam.

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

And I will follow a bit later. Been dreaming of making express/local stations for some time now. The 1L rail will make this possible.

[Bad Peanut 826]

8 hours ago, andreharv said:

We are already friends lol  Oops forgot to mention.  I'm Lazarus*Man on steam.

hahahaha never made the connection!

[andreharv 1,197]

@BloodyPenguin is making dreams come true as he is in the thick of completing the subway ai, allowing for a more comprehensive metro experience.  Reddit HERE!

[LittleMac 48]

Amazing work! Please keep us updated about how things going! 

[wilson124 8]

Hope that we can select the track over-ground between third rail and overhead cable

 

[wasmic 111]

On 24/6/2016 at 7:45 PM, wilson124 said:

Hope that we can select the track over-ground between third rail and overhead cable

 

According to the reddit thread, the metro system will use a third rail. Tracks will be available in two styles - clean concrete at-grade and above ground with circular tunnels, and old-style metal and wood.

If you want overhead wires, you'll have to use the current heavy rail network type, along with underground and/or elevated stations if you want that.