Windows 10 Problem Reporting Thread

[Haljackey 17,272]

Update- all good. Wasn't an issue with my plugins at all!

I needed to patch the EXE to 4GB. NAM requires it and since I didn't reinstall the NAM, D'oh moment insured after going through all my plugins and only having NAM and NAM-like files left.

My game & city tiles do seem to load slower overall. Once the cities do load, things seem to be fine.

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Now getting to some of @Cyclone Boom's questions

21 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Something else came to mind is how you're setting the game to use 8 cores from the -CPUCount:8 command. From what I've heard, the game isn't able to optimally support multiple processor cores, and stability can be improved when limiting this to a single core only using the -CPUCount:1 switch on its own.

Maybe this is a possible thing to try also. Then again I wouldn't have thought it'd cause an instant CTD when switching to another region than the default Timbuktu.

Setting the CPU count here from my knowledge does not set the number of cores used, just which core is used. I have a quad core duo (so 8 units) and my 8th unit is the least utilized overall. Thus, I run SC4 on this one.

On 3/2/2020 at 7:38 AM, Cyclone Boom said:

Just a random thought on this. I wonder if your SimCity 4.cfg file might've become corrupted or is missing somehow and not being created. This should be a settings data file found in the root of your "SimCity 4" folder in Documents, and provides the instructions for the last loaded region (with positioning), along with game settings. My thought is how if this is indeed invalid and it might be causing the issues when changing regions or saving graphics options.

This was possibly due to not patching the EXE with the 4GB patch.

[Cyclone Boom 16,854]

@Haljackey

Nicely done!  I'm pleased hear applying the 4 GB patch to the game's executable did the trick.

This I know comes bundled with the NAM when running the installer after permission was granted to do so, but it could also be applied directly for anyone who wishes to use this, and I've wondered whether it might have benefit on other SC4 tools like the Lot Editor or Reader for instance. I've not tried that though yet, but I've heard others have reported how it does have an advantage for the added memory allocation. I suppose it can't hurt and is well worth a go.

 

1 hour ago, Haljackey said:

Setting the CPU count here from my knowledge does not set the number of cores used, just which core is used. I have a quad core duo (so 8 units) and my 8th unit is the least utilized overall. Thus, I run SC4 on this one.

Sounds good if this works for you should stability still be acceptable.

As a bit of info...

I did just have a look into how the command behaves for what Task Manager says in the "Set Affinity" option when right clicking a process. I'm still on Win 7 for what I run SC4 using, but there's a similar function in Win 10 also. What I did was here on 4 CPU cores to try the following commands:

• -CPUcount:1
• -CPUcount:2
• -CPUcount:3
• -CPUcount:4

And setting to each individually and starting the game, here are the results from the Affinity dialog indicating the total processors enabled for SC4 to use:
 

   

   

 

For each of the corresponding pics above I used:

-CPUcount:1  -CPUcount:2
-CPUcount:3  -CPUcount:4

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Based on this, it does seem how the command is setting the total CPU cores to be used, and not necessarily which in particular as the instance. To get your desired 8th core to be used only, try going into Task Manager and then following this guide that describes doing so on Windows 10 systems. There might be some way to set this to happen each time when starting the game (or any particular program), but otherwise it might need setting whenever SC4 is launched. I'd have thought how setting to use any individual core would suffice the same as the -CPUcount:1 does in restricting to the 1st available system core.

So just something I thought I'd mention from what a quick test found, but it might still be fine keeping how you've got it set. That's the main thing with anything like this, and perhaps some CPUs would be more of benefit than others for how the multiple core usage is distributed.

How the game can be redeemed from Origin as fully patched is nice for people to know it's a viable option, and I'd just keep wary in case there is an upgrade downgrade that might cause the unpatched and unpatchable version to be overwritten in future. I don't use Origin myself and so I'm unsure whether there is any way to prevent specific games from updating, but if so that'd be well worth disabling as a preference to hopefully prevent this happening.

Great that you've found the solution and can now get back to SC4 again!

[philforhockey51 4,203]

Again!   That same city tile keeps crashing on me.  The city tile I mentioned previously in this thread has crashed on me yet again. It is only this one tile that has had an issue. Created the city terraformed laid out roads save no issue, in and out no issue, random crash on start. reloaded from save file worked on it crashed it, reload same thing saved no issue it crashed on open, deleted started over and I crashed it myself doh started over save no issue in and out, it crashed on its own, delete and start from scratch again changing city name to see if file was maybe reading from older version somehow, rebuilt layout and terraforming, save no issue, tried opening city today and it crashed on open. Granted I screwed up and crashed the city myself a couple of times but the game has crashed it a good handful of times, was very careful not to cause reason for crash last night and it saved no problem.  Granted I've crashed cities in the past and even this one a couple of times and I've been careful to command save and not use save and exit button etc. and the city still randomly crashes on start up. This is the 4th time I've rebuilt the city, have loaded previous saves a couple of times also, but for whatever reason only this one city tile in the region or any region I've played crashes repeatedly on it's own. This has only happened under Win10 in all my years of playing and that is why I posted it here in this thread. 

[twalsh102 1,601]

@philforhockey51,

Random and/or inconsistent problems are usually some of the hardest to troubleshoot. Having said that, the one consistency you do apparently have is that you are not experiencing crashes with any other city tile (or I assume you would have mentioned it). This would lead me to believe that the problem is not tied to Windows 10, else you would be experiencing the problem with more than just this one city tile.

It's obvious you've been around a while.  Without knowing what troubleshooting you may have already done, it's hard to know what questions to ask you without insulting your intelligence.  You're obviously aware of the Save and Exit issue with corrupt savegame files. There are unfortunately many other possibilities. My initial thought is that the problem is in your Plugins folder someplace. Is the Plugins folder you use with this particular city possibly unique to this city? I'll assume you've already gone the route of temporarily removing the contents of your Plugins folder to see what happens. Unfortunately, given the apparent inconsistency of when the game crashes, this may or may not prove anything. When the city doesn't crash when you open it, are you able to play for an extended period of time without crashes?

The one thing that comes immediately to mind:  If you are playing windowed mode, save the game and change focus to another program while the city is still saving, this can cause savegame file corruption. None of the other most common causes of CTDs (that I am aware of) seem to fit the scenario that you have explained

[rsc204 21,807]

Re: 4GB Patch

On 04/03/2020 at 4:35 AM, Cyclone Boom said:

I've wondered whether it might have benefit on other SC4 tools like the Lot Editor or Reader for instance. I've not tried that though yet, but I've heard others have reported how it does have an advantage for the added memory allocation

Certainly it can help keep Reader, SC4Reader and SC4 Terraformer from toppling over when dealing with very large files/maps in my experience. One thing is for certain, it can't hurt to use it, all it does is a set an internal flag in Windows that tells it to allocate memory differently.

When running 32-bit applications, they are all limited to a maximum of 2GB RAM, but this includes a large area reserved for OS use. This switch just moves the OS allocation, potentially freeing up the full 2GB for the application, with the other 2GB being used for the OS. It requires a 64-bit operating system (practically speaking at least), to utilise this feature.

On 04/03/2020 at 4:35 AM, Cyclone Boom said:

To get your desired 8th core to be used only, try going into Task Manager and then following this guide that describes doing so on Windows 10 systems.

@Haljackey: Seriously, don't worry about which core is being used, it's totally immaterial. Windows is multi-core as is almost every application you'll be using that isn't as out of date as SC4. It will automatically manage your cores, very smartly too. Once it sees the load on the core in-use by SC4, it will move all other processes onto other cores long before that one is running at 100%. In other words, there is literally no performance boost to be gained from trying to lock down a particular core.

2 hours ago, twalsh102 said:

My initial thought is that the problem is in your Plugins folder someplace.

@philforhockey51: I would also agree this is absolutely the most likely scenario. Whenever I've come across such weirdness, it's because the trigger of the CTD only exists in the affected city, even though the problem exists in Plugins.

However, it would be really dumb if we didn't double-check the simplest solutions before moving forwards:

• Do you have the -CPUCount:1, have you verified (in task manager - see CB's post for how), it's actually working properly?
• Is SC4Fix installed to prevent CTDs when hovering over TE lots? Again, verify it's actually working.

This is simply because, if you spend hours messing around, having neglected one of these, you will not thank yourself.

One common example of a head-banging CTD issue I've experienced:

Duplicate Network Placement Exemplars
Commonly known as Slope mods but also included in anything modifying Bridges/Tunnels. Say you terraform something next to a network, but the conflicting settings trigger a CTD whenever you perform an action that adjusts something relating to them.

Most common causes:

• Use of the Maxis Highway Override AND a slope mod which covers Maxis Highways.
  In this case, it potentially affects every user of MHO, because the redesigned tunnel portals, necessitated different settings and including such an exemplar. I'm sorry to say it, but this is really not ideal, anyone using a slope mod should update the tunnel placement properties there, to match those from the duplicate exemplar in MHO. Then delete the duplicate exemplar from the NAM.
  You must remember to remove this every time you reinstall NAM. The number of times I've forgotten to do this (I install the NAM a lot), then after wasting hours, realised what was going on, is very frustrating.
• Use of Rivit's Tunnel mod AND a conflicting slope mod.
  In the case of Rivit's mod, the readme pretty much tells you about this issue and gives step-by-step instructions to edit your slope mods as needed, to avoid it.
• Simply having two conflicting Exemplars for the same network, where important properties conflict.
  Much the same really, combine all the properties into one exemplar and remove all duplicates. If you know what you are doing, DataNode can help here. Otherwise, Ebina left step-by-step instructions on how to use a little-known feature of Reader, which will search out every file in your Plugins, for an Exemplar with an identical ID. This is much easier than DataNode, since the search is limited to the very Exemplars affected. I.e., no huge reams of data to sort through. Problem being, I've forgotten where the blasted hidden setting is and also what query to use in Google to find the information. If anyone else can help here, please do chime in.

Otherwise we're looking at any one of the files in your Plugins suite in potentia, which makes it a real bugger to diagnose. The bottom line here though, despite all the myths I keep hearing, with some effort and very careful use/verification of my entire Plugins suite, I know first hand, SC4 simply never needs to CTD. It can be absolutely rock-solid stable, but getting there can take a lot of care and work.

Really, this isn't a Windows 10 problem or I suspect a generic one either. As such, if the above doesn't get to the bottom of it, I'd recommend starting a dedicated thread. Here we can try to go through the possibilities, ruling them out in a logical order. Only those who do this methodically, stand a decent chance of finding the actual problem.

[CorinaMarie 29,580]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

Problem being, I've forgotten where the blasted hidden setting is and also what query to use in Google to find the information. If anyone else can help here, please do chime in.

It sounds a lot like this post over on Devotion.

[rsc204 21,807]

9 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

It sounds a lot like this post over on Devotion.

Thank you

I'll add that to a cache of links I keep in a local webpage, so I don't loose it again. Man I wish I'd starting doing that a long time ago or was more consistent about it.

[philforhockey51 4,203]

Twalsh and rsc204  thank you for the suggestions

To note a couple of things,  I use the Launcher to personalize my system at startup and have had no issues as far as cores etc. playing in full screen not window. I also am running it on a new computer with more than needed everything as far as juice with nothing else on the computer so no issues there. It's actually a bit of a joke to see this rig's stats and only thing running on it so far is SC4 and it's tools lol. 
Checking some more things off the list cpu control check, sc4fix check, no MHO check, prior testing with BTM and RHW slope mod do not affect rivit's stuff and no slope mod pieces used in this city tile, only plugins used in various attempts at this city tile are used in other working city tiles in same region, and work without issue in combination in other city tiles in other regions, no known issue with the few lots actually used in this specific city, plugins folder is setup specific to region not just city tile to make it easier to jump in and out of city tiles in same region. I should note I actually only CTD the city one time by my hand because I placed a road tile prior to advisors tips loading, other CTDs have been at city load. 
I also recently, prior to latest series of city crashes, went through the time consuming process of reviewing my plugins folder looking for duplicates etc. and tested some of those umm 'poorly labeled' files to check for potential conflicts etc. . In the process I did find some random duplicate files that oddly did not cause conflicts but I tested and then removed them.

I have no issues playing in any other city tile in the region, some larger than others some have started the growing and pruning process, can play for hours in specific cities without issues only CTDs that have happened by my hand has been the same reason and one I intentionally carefully avoid typically which is zooming in and out too quickly and not letting the the zoom change fully load first.  Basically I've had no issues, other than the doubleclick win10 issues with mmps and this one specific city tile.