NAM General Support

[z1 566]

Does Cleanitol work on compressed plugins folders?

 

No, unfortunately it doesn't.  You should leave a copy of your unDatPacked files in your Plugins folder when you either install the NAM or run Cleanitol.  You'll have another chance to run Cleanitol when the bugfix release comes out.  (There's a standalone version available, but it hasn't been updated recently, and it runs much slower than the version in the NAM.)

 

Hmm... I think I'll put an option in the installer for Cleanitol, so people can run at any time.

 Also I still have the old hole digger lots in the menu as well as the new ones that came with v31. Is there a difference?

 

The new ones are slightly more comprehensive.  You should uninstall your old ones and use the new ones.  In a coming release, this will be done automatically.

 

    While I'm here....... I will be using the High Speed Rail for the first time. I looked at the HSR transit hub station.....does a subway connect to it

    and where? It's bright green when in subway mode and do not see the subway connection if any is there.

 

Yes, the lot is subway-enabled.  Technically, the subway can connect to anywhere on the lot; you don't need to connect to that special-looking square, which can't be seen on this lot in any case.

[Lost Realist 762]

Welp. To ease everything up a little with all the bug reports, I gotta say that I find this release to be freaking great. Sure there are some glitches, but in general it's especially the small features that I'm really enjoying, like the self-demolishing starters and raiser/digger lots, the new turning lane thing you got going on where they don't show up automatically is just the best thing ever and added smooth curves for stuff are always welcome to me. I'm very satisfied with this release, more so knowing that the bugs and instabilities will be removed in due time. Just wanna say thank you to the entire NAM-Team for giving us these great toys.

[aaaling 83]

Anyway, did anyone read my new CPs post? If not, you can find it 

[Jim14409 448]

As I stated in another post (probably wrong thread...sorry) I have not downloaded NAM 31 and will wait for some of the bugs to be smashed. My main reason for waiting is because while I have learned a lot about NAM 30 and now able to do a lot with it, I don't feel experienced enough at this point to be any real help to the team. I still do a lot of "trial and error" not always knowing how things should be. Therefore I will do what I can do and that is try to encourage you all to not despair or feel you have done badly. You have not. I've paid good money for software in worse shape than what I'm reading about NAM 31.

 

Over the past months I've pretty much kept up with everything reported about 31 and know there are a lot of changes/improvements and that always opens up new cans of worms er bugs so not surprising. I'm sure everyone would have liked things to be perfect right from the download and installation but we live in a real world and as far as I know we are all human and prone to error. This is life.

 

The wonderful thing is that we have a team of folks to thank who are doing their best to give us all something for nothing. The least we can do is support them, encourage them and show a little gratitude which many are doing even now. I hope I have done this by this post. Thanks also for those knowledgeable souls who help with bug finding. Maybe next time I can as well.

 

Thank you NAM team. We appreciate all your work.

Jim

[MandelSoft 2,769]

Day 1 of the NAM 31 in a nutshell:



Yeah, we still need a lot of bugfixing to clean up our own mess we made. We hope we get a stable version soon within a reasonable amount of time...

Best,
MandelSoft
(one of your NAM Bronies)

[aaaling 83]

I know it’s not your fault. Just surprise us next time!

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

@haljackey:  Of course it was a horrible lesson.  Probably more for the community than the NAM team, who have always refrained from the dreaded release date deadline.  Generally speaking, the NAM team releases have not produced a shower of bugs, mostly due to having time for careful, thoughtful QA.  This is an object lesson to the community, perhaps, about controlling cravings.

 

There is also the idea of a timely cut off for added material.  The mob will always ask for more than you can give, and there is no point in beating yourselves up over this.  Sometime you just have to be hard nosed and cut off the programming at a point where you are sure you can satisfy a lot of the customers, if not all.  The trick in long standing services is to keep a reasonable level of unhappy but not dissatisfied customers (users).  It is an old, old lesson I learned when running a time-sharing service in the early days.

 

Meanwhile, the NAM team should feel good about what has been accomplished, and not kill themselves over fixing things up.  Don't be shy about withdrawing something if you must.  You can't keep everyone happy and there is no point in worrying about it.  Just keep on working, and feel good.  Thick skins required.

[Haljackey 17,306]

Well, horrible lesson learned.

 

What makes you say this? We chose to make a release date public and knowingly went into it with both eyes open. Sure we felt the pressure of a deadline, but that also helped motivate us to get something that was highly anticipated and in development for 18 months done.

 

Say what you want about making a release date but it has certainly rekindled a lot of attention for SC4. There have been over 1,000 people on Simtropolis all day and we broke one-time records on SC4Devotion. (Not to mention hype on other places like the official SimCity forums and the SimCity Reddit.)

 

 

@haljackey:  Of course it was a horrible lesson.  Probably more for the community than the NAM team, who have always refrained from the dreaded release date deadline.  Generally speaking, the NAM team releases have not produced a shower of bugs, mostly due to having time for careful, thoughtful QA.  This is an object lesson to the community, perhaps, about controlling cravings.

 

I still don't follow you at all. Horrible is such a strong word, and I don't think it applies to the NAM team in the slightest sense. There is nothing horrible about this release or the release date itself.

 

This release is by far both the largest NAM ever and the longest period between releases. With so much new content, and the looming SC13 release, we simply vouched for a different approach this time by announcing a release date and conducting something of a open-beta post-release. (In fact, the NAM has always been beta.)

 

So yes, this release is indeed much different from earlier versions, and if you compare these you will see some distinct differences. Having said that, this will be the first and only time we will use this release method... future versions will revert to an unannounced release date.

 

[Jazzmaster 716]

I think it's not such a bad thing that it's buggy now. Perhaps it'll teach the impatient ones exactly why it is the NAM takes so long to be released, but it could also lead to the bugs being found and resolved much faster, considering we've got so many times more people working on the NAM as opposed to just the NAM team and its associates (not that you folks didn't do a fine job already!).

 

 

It is what it is, is all I can say.

[Swordmaster 50]

Nonny, you know what would have been horrible? Releasing a NAM that's backwards incompatible, causing constant crashes, filled with IID conflicts, and corrupting save files. You have no idea what the team had to do to get these basic problems out of the way. Now we can start fixing the functional areas of NAM 31. This is obviously a lot easier when we have an army of bug testers instead of just a couple associates (all of whom do great work, though). The last stage will be the cosmetic side of things (including documentation). If we were to have done all of this in one go, you might as well have been looking at a 24-month release cycle. That would have been horrible, too. Now this will happen much faster.

So yes, of course it could have been better. But I've heard a lot of positive comments from people who are happy to have the new features that work.

Cheers

Willy

[Jazzmaster 716]

What if the NAM team were to do betas similar to SimCity?  Before the official release, make the mod open with a statement that it won't be 100% functional and in fact quite buggy, but at the same time you could use it and it would lead to faster debugging etc.  Do a few of those, but without announcing an official release date.  I think it could work.

 

 

Just food for thought.

[aaaling 83]

I agree with The Jazzmaster.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Fellas, horrible in the true sense that you were coerced, by your own hand mind you, into a rather horrible experience that could have been avoided all around by simply sticking to previous policy.  You have to have a less literal sense of dishonour.  If it was any other group, I would stop using your stuff altogether, but since you are well known and well intentioned, I only look on with dismay.

 

Now the good news:  I have created a clone account on my system to try out the new features.  I know many of them work, but this is to be seen. 

 

I've spent the last four hours setting up for this test, and there were some strange handsprings due to that never to be sufficiently damned Program Files (x86) directory.  This installer, when you don't take out the (x86) nonsense actually causes my system to create a complete C: drive complete with a User folder and all that that implies.  A new feature of the wine (Windows Executive) on Linux.  What a nice (not) surprise.  The user area is now nicely buried in a (hidden) directory on my system instead of in my user account area.  Grrrr!  Not your fault.  Linux users beware.

 

So I am now going to unpack your file.  In the process of doing this, by the way, I noticed you did not put the version number on the file name.  When you get to the new release, please try to remember to do that, thanks. 

 

I have an archive and it would be easier for me if the distribution did this instead of my having to rename the file.  Trivial, but a nice thing to do.

 

So, anyway, I will now go play with the new edition.  I pulled over all my current regions, so this might be very interesting.  More to come, good and maybe not so great, but the reporting thread has rather a long list, so I will have to have a look at it before I report anything I happen to stumble on.

 

Hope you get all these problems swatted soon.  Too many crushed little beetles in the plug board.

[Ganaram Inukshuk 906]

Think of it this way: We need more testers.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I volunteer.  I am retired and available almost every day.

 

Just installed V31 on my version of Linux/wine.  Ubuntu 12.10 (GNU/Linux 3.5.0-25-generic x86_64) with wine-1.5.25.

 

Cleanitol crashed.  I have Version 27 of Python.  Which one should I have?

 

The rest went very smoothly.  I chose the default install.  Ye gods and little fishes!  There is a lot of stuff in there.  I'll be reading documentation for the next week or so, just to catch up.  The TSCT came up in my browser but wasn't running.  I'll have to look further into that.  I do have the JRE in my wine environment.  Cross system testing is such fun. :kitty:

 

But right now I feel like I've just jammed an elephant into my breadbox, and need to go see where things are bleeding. 

 

The readme file was not displayed even though I requested it.  That's the next thing I need to read, I guess.
 

[mitsos 12,854]

what i think is that such kind of issues are normal for a such large update with so many features. i'm not worried.NAM TEAM will fix everything.they are very experienced. 

[MandelSoft 2,769]

Think of it this way: We need more testers.

More importantly: we need more time.

[z1 566]

So I am now going to unpack your file.  In the process of doing this, by the way, I noticed you did not put the version number on the file name.  When you get to the new release, please try to remember to do that, thanks. 

 

I have an archive and it would be easier for me if the distribution did this instead of my having to rename the file.  Trivial, but a nice thing to do.

 

The code for doing this is already in the installer for NAM 31.1.  Having the version number in the installer file has never been done before in the NAM, but as the installer gets more sophisticated, things like this are getting done.

[Tarkus 6,932]

What if the NAM team were to do betas similar to SimCity?  Before the official release, make the mod open with a statement that it won't be 100% functional and in fact quite buggy, but at the same time you could use it and it would lead to faster debugging etc.  Do a few of those, but without announcing an official release date.  I think it could work.

 

 

Just food for thought.

 

I think that's a very sensible suggestion, and that's kind of how we've decided to treat things now.  And given the commendable job that the broader community has done in terms of finding things, I think it's pretty likely that it's a strategy we'll follow in the future.  The general nature of our initial phases of QA aren't really conducive to a wider audience.  When there's 3-4 controller builds happening in a single day behind the scenes, we need to have people comfortable with the inner workings of the NAM, or else we run the risk of inaccurate reports caused by file version mismatches.  That's why we have the invite-only NAM Associates group.  But there are sometimes things that we don't think to test, that someone in a larger sample population may be prone to doing.  A controlled release like that seems to be, as we're finding, a good way of getting around that.

 

The scope of what is involved in an open test also needs to be quite large.  We have, in the past, had some open tests on very small single components--the initial FAR puzzle pieces, for example--but as there wasn't much to test, we basically ended up with an echo chamber, of all the testers saying the same thing, and it wasn't terribly productive.  Something as large as a Monolithic NAM is certainly of the necessary scale, however.  Not to mention that it creates excitement among the community.

 

-Tarkus

[arozarker12 51]

@haljackey:  Of course it was a horrible lesson.  Probably more for the community than the NAM team, who have always refrained from the dreaded release date deadline.  Generally speaking, the NAM team releases have not produced a shower of bugs, mostly due to having time for careful, thoughtful QA.  This is an object lesson to the community, perhaps, about controlling cravings.

 

There is also the idea of a timely cut off for added material.  The mob will always ask for more than you can give, and there is no point in beating yourselves up over this.  Sometime you just have to be hard nosed and cut off the programming at a point where you are sure you can satisfy a lot of the customers, if not all.  The trick in long standing services is to keep a reasonable level of unhappy but not dissatisfied customers (users).  It is an old, old lesson I learned when running a time-sharing service in the early days.

 

Meanwhile, the NAM team should feel good about what has been accomplished, and not kill themselves over fixing things up.  Don't be shy about withdrawing something if you must.  You can't keep everyone happy and there is no point in worrying about it.  Just keep on working, and feel good.  Thick skins required.

Patience, patience, patience is always a good idea in these matters.  I was happy to see it be released but I could have waited if need be.  These things are tricky matters and often not easy at all.

[Wiimeiser 444]

But there are sometimes things that we don't think to test, that someone in a larger sample population may be prone to doing.  A controlled release like that seems to be, as we're finding, a good way of getting around that.

 

 

 

For example, using puzzle pieces in unconventional ways, for instance, using the FARHW Diamond pieces for a terminus or connecting a roundabout interchange to frontage roads or the collector roads of a collector-express setup.

 

Also, quoting on this forum is a huge pain. Can't something be done about this?

 

 

[Ganaram Inukshuk 906]

Think of it this way: We need more testers.

More importantly: we need more time.

Scratch my previous statement: Many of us have restricted time schedules (and messed-up lives that you probably wouldn't begin to believe) that we really need help by having more people on board.

[zedas 0]

Can someone explain how exactly to use the draggable far in NAM31? People talk about it, the documentation says it's there but I can't seem to find it. I can find the puzzle pieces well enough, but not whatever draggable FAR uses. Is it a hotkey? I don't know. Appreciate any help.

[timmie 988]

Draggable FAR uses your ordinary networks, that's the 'draggable' part op the name. Mandelsoft has a youtube video where you can find how you can do it:

 

http://youtu.be/YJIhHF7mwoc

[zedas 0]

Draggable FAR uses your ordinary networks, that's the 'draggable' part op the name. Mandelsoft has a youtube video where you can find how you can do it:

 

Ahh ok thanks. I've got it now. @Developers it seems clear how to use draggable FAR in retrospect, but you may want to alter the documentation to make it absolutely clear. Something like "Draggable FAR uses patterns made with the normal road tool to create smooth curves and diagonal roads." Personally I was searching for a separate tool and within the puzzle pieces tab for a way to use this.

 

Edit: Ooh I forgot. This is this first time I've tried this mod, and it's really awesome! Adds whole new life to playing the game. Great work.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

In my testing so far, everything I've tried has worked.  My test environment clearly needs a slope mod, though.  Any recommendations for one with this version?  At the moment, I am still playing in my (new) sandbox.

 

P.S. Making a clone account to test this was a great idea.  This saves anything that might have been munged in my production system which is still on v30.

 

Oh, I backed it out and did a custom install. 

 

There are some problems in the drop text box with the options where some of the text gets lost.  You can get it back by fooling around with some of the expandable lists.  I don't know whether this is a problem with my version of the windows controls or a bug.  Testing under Linux adds a dimension of excitement.

 

Did I miss something, or did Project Symphony not make it in after all?

[timmie 988]

It is included, but not under that name (I've read the NAM team thought it might confuse users). It is included in the installer as 'Maxis highway override' (or something like that).

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Thanks, I must have overlooked it.

[Revenger 13]

Can the RHW highways use traffic intersections for 4? with either tulep or something.

 

RHW 4 kinda already with roads on dragiable sections but they are buggy and don't work well.

 

I want to make highways with both ramps etc traffic lights in areas  as all our highways here are faster speeds some have and have flyover ramps and stuff as well as lower area parts etc traffic lights.

 

Closest I can find is using a avenue for what I need without the dedicated on/off ramps etc.

 

I know you guys are thinking of it and saw the in development scrapped test stuff.

 

It was said that abuse was a reason why you didn't do them but if limited to RHW 4 and 2 as 2 has them already as any more lanes for transitions to normal networks wouldn't be needed as you can jiust bump down to 2 or 1 lanes with transitions where needed imo as the duel lane each way can give us more realistic options if you allow them to transition to only road or avenue networks and other highways not streets as that's dumb imo..

[Revenger 13]

This is more an annoyance than bug etc but please fix the prefab breaking into little pieces taking out the surrounding stuff you have built making you have to redo everything if you get one piece wrong.

 

Like the overpasses on rhw for ave if I screw one one bit a mis the ave on sloop or whatever it means I have to cleanup and redo the entire overpass from the actual road, to turning lane, mis, the ave over pieces its really annoying, I have just spent a hour or more on a single and should be simple ave over rhw and rail/road or accidently misplaced a piece wrong or I forgot to link the rail up underneath.

 

If anything is wrong you need to redo the entire thing and that's not good id rather be building my city than spending a hour on each NAM exchange I'm doing just and then if I ever want to redesign that interchange there goes a few more hours.

 

So please allow each component to be stabalised by itself so you can remove or redo components and not take out the surrounding nam components etc.