Maxis Visit, thoughts and impressions

[Dirktator 2,320]

First, thank you Maxis and EA for having us down there, our host and hostess were awesome. We had a great time, there just wasn't enough of it! We appreciate the opportunity to connect with you!

Fellow Simtropolians, these impressions are for you (this is not a review). Sorry for the posting this a couple days later than intended, got distracted with some server stuff, and I also wanted to give it some more thought. If there's a topic I didn't cover, please feel free to ask and I'll try to get an answer for you. Do keep in mind, these are really early impressions, and I'm sure lots of things are going to change.

Please share your thoughts, let me know where I'm wrong, or what you disagree with.

----

Oct 2012 Maxis Studios Visit, Thoughts and impressions

In the hands of Maxis

SimCity is back in the hands of Maxis. And last week, we were invited to visit their studio in Emeryville with an opportunity to interact with the team and to to get a detailed inside view of the development of the new game.

I have a few thoughts and impressions to share with you guys, but I want to make it very clear that while we enjoyed lots of candid, insightful conversation, we simply did not have enough time to fit in an extended play session with the actual game. So it made writing this difficult because I wanted to be honest with what I saw, informative for you guys, but fair to Maxis, knowing that I didn’t really get a full experience with the game.

What I did get was a brief exposure to a limited tutorial, and while I tried to take in as much as I could given the constraints, I just couldn’t get enough out of it without time to play freely. Again, this was just the unfortunate result of scheduling not conspiracy (I think). Anyway, even though our time there was condensed, it was packed with plenty of information, lots of demos were shown and plenty of discussion. I’ll share what I thought was interesting, but I’m not going into specific gameplay stuff that has already been shown or talked about.

Before moving on, one caveat: given that what we saw was all based on early software, some behaviour we discussed was undemonstrated, and what in-game art we saw is not final, I may totally change my mind on any of these things as new information arises.

The very limited tutorial I went through amounted to little more than click here, drag down this road, put down a zone and that’s about it. It’s a serviceable tutorial for a new player, but I didn’t get much out of it. I got a chance to draw a couple of roads; yes, it feels pretty good and intuitive. Painting down zones feels just as you might expect. I like how buildings sort of swing around as you drag them across the terrain before placing them. Yes, all pretty superficial. Sorry to disappoint, but if I get another chance to actually sink my teeth into the actual game, I’ll tell you something more meaningful.

City sizes, repetition, and why Glassbox could play really differently

But we did get to some talking about city-building, and city sizes. Yes, it’s 2x2, sorry, no change right now. I brought up the issue of building repetition. So from what I understand, to help mitigate this a little bit, the idea is that each building will have some slight variation, I’m assuming texture, colour, props, so that even a row of similar looking houses, should at least have a little variety between them. That’s good news.

When I asked if it extended any further than just cosmetics, for example, will the simulator be able to recognize that 4 car washes are growing next to each other and, maybe, you know, not do that? The answer was no. It will still be possible to still get a bunch of similar stuff bunched together, like 4 gas stations all on the same street. It’s a small gripe for me, but maybe not for you. As long as the underlying simulator is fun, I can overlook that.

About the simulator, I think Glassbox, based on the demos we saw, will really make the new game feel and play very differently form its predecessor. You already

all about it, but I like the idea that every car, vehicle or sim is an agent with goals, that they will use whatever infrastructure you’ve laid down, to attempt to get to their destination. And if for some reason they can’t, you will see where things screwed up naturally as a result of your own boneheaded networks. I like that. It gives your city a sense of real physicality because you will see sims physically using your transportation network, and you will be able to see exactly what isn’t working and understand why.

In SimCity 4 the simulator was purely statistical so trying to get the current state of your city meant staring at windows with rows of numbers, and looking at a value like “47%” and then trying to figure out what that means, what affected that, and what you should do to move that number up or down. There’s usually a lot of guessing, and then you just stop guessing, and just spam bus stops (or whatever) everywhere and moved on. For me, playing SC4 sometimes felt like balancing a spreadsheet.

So with Glassbox, I like how the data is presented like a real-time animated info-graphic style, allowing you to see what’s going on right now. It’s nice to not have to comb through rows of data while playing the game to understand a situation. I do see some value for having charts though, perhaps more like a summary, or annual report, where you can see a nicely plotted graph of trends in crime, pollution, population, what improved, what’s declining, that sort of thing. It’s info fluff for sure, but it would give the city a growth history.

The complexity of buildings, and modding

As we walked around the studio, nearly every wall it seemed was covered with large format print-outs of concept artwork. I was impressed with the attention to detail that went into the design of every building. This stuff makes a SimCity geek happy. And looking at them, I started to appreciate just how much more there is to consider for each building now that they are in 3d, animated, and can be expandable with modules.

That’s going to take modding and custom content to a new level.

There are still a lot of questions with modding and custom content support. I can tell you that Maxis is very keen to support modding, but don’t expect any tools until well after launch. Right now, they just don’t have any solid answers or solutions on how modding could work in a persistent world with these online regions. How does a modded building affect that global economy? Would it? Should it? What about other players in your region? Maybe if you play with modded or custom content, you play in your own region, and you affect nothing else, including the global economy. But should you get to access the global economy? Does that not just isolate you, you know, just as if you were playing a single-player offline game?

The other thing to consider is the leap in technology and tools just needed to create a building. In SimCity 4 the buildings were essentially static sprites. Buildings in the new SimCity are fully 3d objects. And I’m assuming with the Glassbox simulator there’s even more to account for: Building have animations to indicate their state, such as doors opening, or conveyor belts moving. Lighting is now volumetric, no longer simply baked onto the texture as in SC4. Buildings that provide services can be upgraded and expanded with snap-on modules; those snap-on areas must be considered in the over all design. All buildings require road access, so the artist must plan where road connections on the lot would be ideally placed.

I’m certain there’s more that goes into creating a building. Additionally, all models are now built in Maya (along with some proprietary tools and palettes that Maxis developed to work in Maya for the project). So if all the above requirements are true for Maxis-made buildings, it seems reasonable to expect that custom content makers must follow the same standard. It’s a lot to consider, but I know it’s on their minds. When the time comes, content creators can expect a big leap in both complexity and creativity. While Maxis doesn’t have all the answers to modding yet, they are open to a dialogue with the community and to hear your feedback.

Road geeks win with 3d

The other great benefit of everything in true 3d, is roads. Because roads are now full 3d paths, Road Geeks will literally have a whole other dimension to play within. Ocean Quigley gave us a demo of the road tool and it was pretty sweet to see just how easy he was able to create a three level overpass by using the free-form tool and dragging out an elevated road, dragged another one beneath it, and one on top. Elevated roads create their own support pylons, and if there’s sufficient space beneath, you can run another road or rail under it.

The road tool is smart enough to try to solve bumpy or hilly terrain for you. At times it will suggest a bridge as a solution to span a gap, other times it might draw a road down one incline and up another. But if you want finer control, you can still create your own solution by inching the road tool along and clicking to commit as you go along.

There seemed to be endless possibilities, and unlike previous titles, making these complex configurations looked pretty effortless. Also, I loved the fact that as you draw your road, you’ll see a dotted line hinting the optimal space required for zoning. So if you wanted to carve a winding road down a hill, the zone hinting line will make sure you leave enough space to zone your hillside houses.

Zoning, changes and omissions

On the topic of zoning, you no longer specify density for your zones. The density of the building that will grow there will depend on the type of road its adjacent to. Busy roads with lots of traffic will result in high density, but low volume roads will create low density buildings. There will no longer be an agricultural zone. No farms. When asked, the team felt that farm zones offered no real gameplay value. Well, two things to say about that: they may not add much to gameplay, but it did allow players to design a city with that distinct agricultural look so it’s a shame it’s gone, we lose variety. Second thing, what about actually adding a gameplay element to farms?

Make farms produce goods that would be sold on the global market. Now people have a choice to specialize even further if they want to export grown goods for income. There’s a built-in trade-off since farms take up a lot of space and there are risks such as pollution, disasters, drought. If you get a good yield one year, you might make a lot of money selling high wine (or whatever) sold to rich sims everywhere. But you may not always get a profitable year, so it's risk versus reward. It’s also a challenge to operate a purely agricultural based city; you’d need to support it with neighbouring cities and deals to ensure your other needs are met. If anything it’s just more interesting choices for the player.

In other words, turn agriculture into a challenge. People might enjoy the challenge of trying to sustain a profitable agricultural city. It could add another dynamic to both the global market and multiplayer regions. Anyway, just an idea.

Speaking of multiplayer, when I first heard that the new SimCity will be an “online multiplayer SimCity”, I probably had the same reaction as some of you. Honestly, the term “multiplayer SimCity” must, to a core fan, confuse as much as it offends.

Multiplayer and always-online

So far, we have no real idea how online multiplayer, global markets and global economies will play out. I’m guessing the Beta is where we’re going to discover all that. My initial resistance was based on the fear that I would be forced to play in a region with other people and I had no choice. For me, leaderboards and group challenges hold almost no appeal whatsoever, other players might dig that. I hope the online component offers some surprising dynamic that we haven't already seen before and that serve to engage more than to annoy.

So we know now that you can still play an entire region by yourself - though you still have to be online.

So that brings us to a burning point of contention which has been debated all over the forums here and abroad. I don’t think I can add much more to the conversation, but I did bring up the topic with Maxis at dinner the one night:

“Ok, so hey, let’s say I had a long day at work, and I just want to go home, relax and load up SimCity. In fact, I can’t wait to get home and work on my city. I’ve been thinking about it all day. So I get home, I load it up, and the servers are down. I can’t play… so… now what?”

The only answer I got was about the only answer I deserved for such a loaded question. Kip shrugged his shoulders and offered a “c’est la vie” face. Really, what else could he say? We are told that online play is asynchronous, so temporary outages will not disrupt your game. And yes, occasionally Origin servers may be down for maintenance, and you won’t be able to login or you may be kicked out of the game, but we can be assured that plenty of notice will always be given.

While not new, I still reject the idea of “always online” but I am accepting that it will be the way many games will go. Still at the risk of being obnoxious on the topic, I wanted to press the point another way:

“Ok, so you look at SimCity 4 released 10 years ago, and I can still load it up today and play it. I can load it up five years from now and still play it. I don’t need to sign in, I don’t need a server, I just load it up and play. How can this always online requirement be able to assure me that I can still play my game, say, a year or 10 from now just as I can with SimCity 4?”

As an answer, Kip hunched over and waved his fingers: “Hmmm… let me look into my crystal ball…”

There was laughter, it was kinda funny. And really, what did I expect? Still, however glib Kip’s response, within it contained about as much truth and assurance as I could have hoped to extract on the matter. The honest answer of course is that no one really knows for sure, and there really are no promises. There was no answer that could have satisfied.

Not to paint Kip as completely glib and dismissive (he’s actually very patient, great to talk to and good humoured) he did address my concern as best as he was able to: Maxis values SimCity greatly, it’s one of their flagship titles, and that we have every good intention of making sure it has a long life. Something along that line. So there you go, that’s the best answer they can possibly give us, whether that affects your buying decision is up to you.

Final musings

Some final thoughts, I have noticed that the SimCity coming out in February has a disconcerting lack of version suffix. We’ve just been calling it the New SimCity. Is it possible that this is the Final SimCity? From what I’ve seen, and I have not seen it all, the concepts and the intents behind the ideas all support a distinct possibility for a great game. While I am mostly, cautiously, optimistic by what I have seen so far, and despite a few points on which I disagree with -- if I have any meaningful reservations to share with you it would be the overall visual style. I’m not warming to it yet.

It could be that I just haven’t played the game enough, and that I’ve only really seen very early builds and demos, but the truth is right now, I’m not connecting with the visual style which feels to me overtly cute, bright and cartoony. SimCity 4 had a clean stylized realism to it that felt right, at least for me. In the new SimCity, there’s something about the scale of the city in general, the look of the buildings, the awkward spaces between buildings (ugh), the way all the cities we’ve seen look and feel sparse. I’m not looking for realistic, just believable. So for what it’s worth, there’s my big disconnect right now, perhaps real gameplay may cure that at some point.

Overall, Maxis is doing a lot to move the game forward. And I believe them when they say that having a deep simulator is important, we’ll wait and see how deep it is, but it’s looking promising. It feels like they want to make SimCity more connected, socially engaging, encouraging you to partner up to build “great works” and complete challenges.

There’s lots of evidence that Maxis wants to make the game more appealing and more accessible to bring in new players without, hopefully, alienating the dedicated fans (too much). I can see this effort in some of the design choices, super friendly interface, the way data is rendered in a more friendly way, the new music is friendly and relatable (unlike the electronic, abstract mix of SC4), and mostly in the art direction; the brighter palette, the sense of scale. The tilt-shift style makes it all look miniature, like a toy … like a doll-house city, maybe?

At the Maxis Live broadcast event, one thing about the presentation format did not escape me. The SimCity portion of the live event was bracketed by two major The Sims 3 announcements. I mean even the “promotional” mystery box for SimCity, required owning some Sims 3 expansions. Now there’s nothing wrong with this. It was just an observation and I’m not suggesting anything more nefarious than just savvy marketing and PR. Whatever the intention, I think it was a good thing. Maxis is known for The Sims and SimCity (what’s Spore?). The difference, is that The Sims 3 has approximately nine thousand expansions. SimCity 4, has one.

If there’s any hope for the title to be a commercial success (and more than just fan service) -- which means continued support, more expansions, servers remaining online -- it’s got to appeal to more players than just us core fans. So, core fans, in February what we’ll see will be the next generation of SimCity. I for one hope that the game has enough in it for me so I can include myself in this next generation, too. That’s all I have to say for now.

Thanks for reading.

Dirktator

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Thank you for that detailed review. It confirms some of my suspicions but most importantly, it eases some of my worries and brings a new, informed, and reliable opinion on the matter.

Also, I love your suggestion to Maxis about agriculture and I really like the photos of the concept art on the walls!

--Ocram

  Edited October 17, 2012 by OcramSeattle  

[cirugo 1,889]

very fair.

thanks for that!

[Architechnid 186]

Thanks Dirktator for the info. You were a bit more...diplomatic than I might have been.

I disagree (with Dirktator's view of Maxis' reaction to his questions): Shruging your shoulders and making a joke about looking into the future, nor basically ignoring the inquiries that have been going on for several weeks now, is not an appropriate response. An appropriate response would be to explain what the plans are, what conditions would shut the servers down? Why choose the multiplayer ONLY direction if it's going to cause so much heart ache?

I'm not saying we should lynch them or anything, but many people are frustrated by the PR games being played, and the lack of dialougue that is happening. I'm cool with Maxis wanting to make a financially sucessful game, and appealing more to a general audience, but it's like they are only trying to appear to 'listen to the fans'.

I've harped on this before, but they should be looking to companies like Bungie and 343i for how to run PR, and make overarching game decisions. They have been able to take the narrow FPS genere, and move it into film-making, custom map editing, and ongoing episodic content, all while maintaining the base of what made Halo "Halo". It is now a BILLION dollar franchise, and there is no reason EA and Maxis can't look at some of these lessons to turn SimCity into just as large a franchise.

IDK, it just seems everytime Maxis creates or is given an opportunity to make resonable people like me a believer, they just totally blow it and create more frustration.

  Edited October 17, 2012 by Architechnid  

[cirugo 1,889]

I disagree (with Dirktator's view of Maxis' reaction to his questions): Shruging your shoulders and making a joke about looking into the future, nor basically ignoring the inquiries that have been going on for several weeks now, is not an appropriate response. An appropriate response would be to explain what the plans are, what conditions would shut the servers down? Why choose the multiplayer ONLY direction if it's going to cause so much heart ache?

well, I would agree with this but I'm happy that he brought it up to them and he acknowledges that it's a big problem. Their answers are not sufficient but that's what I would expect from them after all we've gotten out of them so far.

Thank you for that detailed review. It confirms some of my suspicions but most importantly, it eases some of my worries and brings a new, informed, and reliable opinion on the matter.

Also, I love your suggestion to Maxis about agriculture and I really like the photos of the concept art on the walls!

--Ocram

confirms all of my worries but I'm satisfied with his insights. I think he was fair.

[nathanthemayor 1,261]

Wow this totally shocked me, paticulary the elevated roads and how the slopes are actually good for this game...However, i"m still disappointed about the origin thing and the city tile size(Although not as much)

  Edited October 17, 2012 by nathanthemayor  

[Bipin 3,402]

Thanks for such a superb review. With what's been said about modding and custom content alone, my view has already been slightly changed for the better. Thanks for informing us potential customers Dirk!

[jacksunny 741]

A very though-out and unbiased review. Thanks Dirk.

Now this may be an odd question, considering the city tile sizes, but is there a limit to the number of overpasses we can make over one another? You mentioned you were shown one with 3, is it possible to have more than this?

[Hamish 1,369]

Good to hear your impressions of the trip, sounds like you had a good time.

I would get behind making agriculture a resource and have a farming style city. That would be the best way to use agriculture in my mind. In SC4 it wasn't really utilised that much, it was more eye candy. You could get more jobs, for a little bit more money with regular industry zones.

3D road paths sound good too, hope to see more from maxis about this soon, would change a lot of peoples minds about the game I think.

While it would be good to get some assurance that the servers won't be taken down within a few years of release, their answers were probably appropriate. Im sure they would have never thought that SC4 would still be played 10 years or more after release, so its always hard to know how long a game will stay recent and usable. I'm sure they will support it for as long as they can. But I hope they bring out many more simcity games within the next 10 years.

Good to hear your thoughts on the game so far, would have been better if you had more time with the game. But a chat with maxis is always a good trip, and its good to hear that they are really excited about the game.

[Dirktator 2,320]

A very though-out and unbiased review. Thanks Dirk.

Now this may be an odd question, considering the city tile sizes, but is there a limit to the number of overpasses we can make over one another? You mentioned you were shown one with 3, is it possible to have more than this?

While I didn't see it, I believe it should be entirely possible.

[Haljackey 17,325]

Thanks for the review Dirk. It was awesome of Maxis to invite Zel and yourself to their offices and give the game a try.

Your thoughts and impressions reinforce my cautious optimism for the game. Like other 'core players' of SC4 I yearn for more options, control and choice. I want to make my SimCity experience totally unique to me, and that's something I've loved about the series ever since I first popped it into my SNES. The 'always-on' multiplayer aspect and removal of some key features present in SimCity for so long startles me as a result. I'm hopeful this won't affect my gameplay much, but with it being this early on, we do not know for sure.

I also find it a little disheartening that SimCity (2013) already has a scheduled release date. I do not like the fact that the latest game in a series I love so much may be rushed to meet a deadline. If some of the issues we (and you) have addressed are not considered by the development team before it is too late, the product may result into something we might not care for and may not ultimately buy. Thus pleasing the community is a big issue for them, but so is working to meet a tight deadline with whatever limited resources they have at their disposal. To them, it's all a matter of balancing the community needs with what the company (EA) wants and carefully managing what you have to do it.

Anyways I don't want to get carried away and I thank you for your review of the game and your visit. It certainly reinforced some of my perceptions but also leaves me optimistic to see how this game will come together up to and possibly after release.

-Haljackey

[RipRap 4,400]

Wow, that's a great review. Thanks!

[VeritaScientia 150]

Excellent writeup, very thorough and professionally done.

I actually hope this is the last SimCity....in that they decide to lay groundwork and then build off of the game instead of coming out with a whole new game.

The lack of farms and their justification shows a potential lack of understanding of just how important agriculture is in the world. According to the Wikipedia article, which appears to take data from the CIA World Factbook, agriculture accounts for roughly six percent of the world's cumulative gross domestic product. That number pales in comparison to the service sector, which comprises about sixty percentage points, but when you look at the end result, agriculture alone is responsible for $4 trillion of the world's GDP. Factor in the jobs that are created directly and indirectly by the agriculture sector, from food processors to heavy farm equipment. If they are going to build an economic engine, they should not neglect the importance of agriculture. I live in the state of Wisconsin, forever America's Dairyland, and if I remember correctly, a large portion of the jobs in my state are directly or indirectly tied to agriculture, I couldn't find hard numbers, but I believe it is around 10-25%.

I disagree (with Dirktator's view of Maxis' reaction to his questions): Shruging your shoulders and making a joke about looking into the future, nor basically ignoring the inquiries that have been going on for several weeks now, is not an appropriate response. An appropriate response would be to explain what the plans are, what conditions would shut the servers down? Why choose the multiplayer ONLY direction if it's going to cause so much heart ache?

Most companies in the world won't talk about stuff if they aren't ready to. Not to mention, you WOULD need a crystal ball to tell if the SimCity servers are still up in five years.

On the point of multiplayer, I just had an idea. It is likely easier to build a more realistic simulation that is dependent upon other human players using the game to manipulate the game variables, than it is to hard-code an advanced AI to handle the simulation.

[Cartographer29 13]

Thanks for the review and sharing it Dirk.

I'm more optimistic this will be a good "restart" for the franchise, and I'm hoping that certain aspects will come in future expansions (like a "transportation" expansion including subway, EL, etc. or a "business expansion" that brings back farms, as well as other industrial endevours for your city).

February can't come soon enough. My excitement for Cities in Motion 2 has now fallen far off the radar. SimCity is where it's at, and I may have many sleepless nights and lost work productivity for a while after that.

I don't have any problem with that either!

[grugor 60]

Yep. very happy with your honest review. No brown envelope for you i suspect .

Just a few questions.

Roads are 3dmaps. Is it possible to elevate tram lines either on their own or as part of an elevated Avenue ? Same question for heavy rail.

You asked about water in the interview. Is there going to be rivers ?

Can disasters be turned off?

You have a picture of a bucket excavator in your photos. Is that in the game somehow?

who paid for dinner ?

tks

[Zulnex 1]

Very nice and helpful review. Many thanks! Looking forward to the release very much.

  Edited October 18, 2012 by Zulnex  

[Firebird 40]

Thanks for the review, Dirk. It's good to finally hear some information directly from the sources, and I'm glad you had such a great time! Many aspects of the game look quite interesting, and I'm still definitely going to be watching the reaction of the beta. Thanks for being so thorough (as you could be, anyway) and thoughtful, as you always are with these kinds of things.

I've gotta say though, I'm still a little disappointed about their replies regarding the online element. Many people view it as a form of DRM, and we all know the mess that caused around the release of Spore, and what title it was given that year. I still love Maxis, but I'm genuinely worried about them. I personally think twice about putting down money on a game that may end up being unplayable in a few years. At least, without a mod to allow the game to work offline.

[jacksunny 741]

I actually hope this is the last SimCity....in that they decide to lay groundwork and then build off of the game instead of coming out with a whole new game.

I somewhat agree with this. I would like to see them try and expand on this game, instead of making me spend another $100 5 years from now when they release another one. However, as time goes on, I would like to see them release a new Simcity, one fit for the technology of the time, with bigger maps, better graphics, etc. Things that cannot be accomplished now, but perhaps in the future.

[Dirktator 2,320]

Yep. very happy with your honest review. No brown envelope for you i suspect .

Just a few questions.

Roads are 3dmaps. Is it possible to elevate tram lines either on their own or as part of an elevated Avenue ? Same question for heavy rail.

You asked about water in the interview. Is there going to be rivers ?

Can disasters be turned off?

You have a picture of a bucket excavator in your photos. Is that in the game somehow?

who paid for dinner ?

tks

Thanks

1. Just a guess, but since trams run on avenues, and avenues are roads... ? We'll have to wait to hear more about roads.

2. While there will be water in the game, no confirmation about rivers, specifically yet.

3. Don't know yet.

4. Didn't see the excavator in the game yet...

5. EA paid for everything.

Thanks for the review Dirk. It was awesome of Maxis to invite Zel and yourself to their offices and give the game a try.

Your thoughts and impressions reinforce my cautious optimism for the game. Like other 'core players' of SC4 I yearn for more options, control and choice. I want to make my SimCity experience totally unique to me, and that's something I've loved about the series ever since I first popped it into my SNES. The 'always-on' multiplayer aspect and removal of some key features present in SimCity for so long startles me as a result. I'm hopeful this won't affect my gameplay much, but with it being this early on, we do not know for sure.

I also find it a little disheartening that SimCity (2013) already has a scheduled release date. I do not like the fact that the latest game in a series I love so much may be rushed to meet a deadline. If some of the issues we (and you) have addressed are not considered by the development team before it is too late, the product may result into something we might not care for and may not ultimately buy. Thus pleasing the community is a big issue for them, but so is working to meet a tight deadline with whatever limited resources they have at their disposal. To them, it's all a matter of balancing the community needs with what the company (EA) wants and carefully managing what you have to do it.

Anyways I don't want to get carried away and I thank you for your review of the game and your visit. It certainly reinforced some of my perceptions but also leaves me optimistic to see how this game will come together up to and possibly after release.

-Haljackey

I also wonder about the February 2013 date, and the fact that the beta hasn't started yet.

My suspicion is that the "beta" is really just a stress test for Origin servers than anything, and a chance for them to see how the global economy will balance.

Other than show-stopping bugs, the beta will probably contain all the features we're likely to see in the game, if anything features will be disabled for the sake of the final.

It's doubtful that actual "gameplay" feedback during the "beta" stage will be addressed.

[maddogmark25 58]

Great, honest review, Dirk. I truly hope I am selected for the beta so I can see for myself...

But the two things I was left wondering about from your review were:

1. What were your thoughts on the empty/unusable grasslands between cities, and did Maxis make any notions if that empty space would be filled automatically by statis farms, suburbs, etc.?

2. Did you get a chance to see about the "dead space" between tall buildings, and if there is any lot clutter that will make these lots more realistic?

Thank you! I hope you enjoyed the visit.

[Dirktator 2,320]

Great, honest review, Dirk. I truly hope I am selected for the beta so I can see for myself...

But the two things I was left wondering about from your review were:

1. What were your thoughts on the empty/unusable grasslands between cities, and did Maxis make any notions if that empty space would be filled automatically by statis farms, suburbs, etc.?

2. Did you get a chance to see about the "dead space" between tall buildings, and if there is any lot clutter that will make these lots more realistic?

Thank you! I hope you enjoyed the visit.

1. No mention of that, sorry, didn't think to ask.

2. That dead space between buildings was what I was referring to, doesn't look great so far. I didn't see any generated 'cluter' or anything like that, however, maybe they will address it.

[MaxisGuillaume 289]

2. That dead space between buildings was what I was referring to, doesn't look great so far. I didn't see any generated 'cluter' or anything like that, however, maybe they will address it.

Yeah we're working on it.

[LexusInfernus 908]

Thanks Dirk, this clears up quite a lot of stuff I was wondering about.

Hmm, Im guessing that there is a good technical reason for not increasing the city tile sizes, namely computer performance. I mean, the whole thing is in 3D, making the city to big might be a problem for people who dont have a custom build supercomputer at home. And Maxis has always been rather mainstream in the audience they try to approach, even more so with this SimCity, so I would guess it includes a lot of people who have only a 'normal' computer. Just saying. I could be entirely wrong though

Also, I can understand their vague response to the online part. I mean, as much as it is a valid reason to be worried about the game, they cant really do anything about it. They have chosen for this model, they cant really back out of it at this stage anymore. Yes, servers will go down, or players might have connection problems on their end, thats really annoying, but its not something they can change without overhauling that whole concept of the game.

  Edited October 18, 2012 by LexusInfernus  

[Cyclone Boom 16,938]

Thanks Dirk, a honest and comprehensive insight into your trip. It's great to hear about the game from the community's perspective for a change.

Although details are not confirmed at this stage, the potential for modding and custom content does seem exciting. But somehow, custom content will have to either combine or exclude the multiplayer aspects. It's interesting that Maxis themselves are not quite sure how this will work. Who knows, maybe a future expansion is the solution.

[chimeran 208]

great review by the way but either maxis or EA is taking the wrong approach in my opinion and here is my explanation why; it seems to me that maxis/EA is betting the fate of the simcity franchise on the glassbox engine which seems to me a huge mistake. and almost anything you hear is about glassbox and then things start to fall into place. why only the on-line play ? two reasons i can think of, 1 it's proprietary and 2, the average home computer will not be able to meet the processing demands. take SC4, the engine is built in allowing off-line play but as you progress in the game the engine stresses performance until the game breaks itself trying to keep up w/the logistical demands of managing all the data. maybe after a few years maxis/EA will create a parsed version of glassbox which will either allow off-line play or allow the average player the ability to host their own server w/a standard desktop or laptop set-up w/o the need of a dedicated server which is out of reach for the average consumer.

it's origin which is my biggest misgiving and the fact that EA would only choose to use them is cause for concern. origin is a start-up and is only a year old while steam has been around for 10 years. that alone should have you hearing, "danger will robinson, danger" and i found out a nasty truth about origin, if you don't download your game through them first you won't be able to download it at all unless you uninstall the previous version of the game from a third party and then download the game through origin. if origin finds it on your drive as far as it's concerned then it's work is done and whatever money you spent for the same exact game is money down the toilet.

while you are correct, there is no way maxis could know that SC4 would still be around even after all this time and 10 years is an eternity in the gaming market it's that precise fact that is allowing maxis to chance the fate of the new simcity to rest on the laurels of it's predecessors. while the bean-counters may think it's a great idea to dumb down an established niche game to fatten wallets one of the premises of the simcity franchise is that it's a thinking man's game and requires a longer attention span and attention to detail. while getting rid of the graphs and making it more of GUI for the city information sounds good i would rather have the graphs than sacrifice key aspects of the game that it made it successful and still allow it to be successful despite it's shortcomings (single processor). one of the running jokes is to take any politician or city leader and let them play SC4 in order to manage an actual city, that can't be said for the new simcity.

then there is the agriculture to be examined, exactly how do you plan to feed your sims ? even the sims games require you to make sure they eat or they will die but i guess they take the manna from heaven approach and that is wholly unrealistic. agriculture would add a whole new dimension to the "global" market. in a positive setting a player can grow a specific crop endemic to his region, similar to oranges, macadamias, or cocoa plants to name a few which can't grow in any place but in only certain parts of the world. but on the negative side, it can cause mass famine and population extinction if a player refuses to sell his crops to the world economy which is far more realistic than non-crater forming meteors and to be technical it's meteoroids since they breach the atmosphere and hit the ground.

in closing it seems to me that maxis/EA is taking the iphone approach to the new simcity and thinking the uneducated masses will line up like sheep for the newest version which is woefully underpowered and in my opinion retarded (apple maps anyone?) but like a meme i saw once regarding said iphone that showed an iphone store w/a poster in the store window that said,"because you have more money than sense".

regards, chimeran

[Wiimeiser 444]

Agriculture would actually make a great expansion pack, if anyone at EAxis is listening...

[BarbulaM1 38]

^^For the given tile size it seems agriculture would be difficult to make incredibly believeable, I think we can wait for an expansion for that. Otherwise from the sound of it the dynamics and building blocks are in place to build on the game in the future. As long as the glass box is flexible, which it looks like it is, hopefully the possibilites are nearly endless.

[FoldingSleet8 2]

Wow, I'm actually starting to get excited for the new SimCity! Great article!

[Spinmaster 75]

How can this always online requirement be able to assure me that I can still play may game, say, a year or 10 from now just as I can with SimCity 4?

Thank you for asking this. I don't appreciate the answer, or rather, the lack of one... but I do greatly appreciate you trying.

Unfortunately I'm left but one conclusion: there is no assurance. Speculation? Yes. But with such pressure on this question, I can't imagine if the answer would be in any way "assuring" they would withhold it for any reason. It's the single biggest deal-breaker, in my opinion. Simply the "online only" requirement is bad enough. But the thought that I might not be able to play this game even two years later, without shelling out money for a sequel I may not have any need for, is sickening. I've said it before and I'll say it again; call me an old fart if you want, but if "buying" a game - and thus being able to play it many years after official support is gone - has become a thing of the past, then I guess I won't be buying any new games.

I'll be as optimistic as I can that maybe I'm wrong about all this, and there will be a way to keep playing it for years without effectively renting it. But that optimism will be ranked somewhere between winning the lottery, twice, and world peace, I'm afraid.

In any case though... thank you Dirk, for asking!!!

[Porter 68]

Would like to see agriculture in the game (especially since I live in the middle of the US) but I can understand if they make it part of an expansion pack (just better throw some other things in there as well to make it worth the money).

One thing I would like to know... would it be possible to have servers located somewhere other than with EA if down the road they decided to close their servers? Hopefully someone from Maxis sees this and can give up some insight?