BAT Soapbox

[.soapy 127]

Greetings!

I'll ask everyone to bear with me here while I try once again to produce some BAT's, and hopefully get a few of them onto the STEX this time perhaps...
Since I don't expect my presence to be known by anyone outside the ST live chat room, I'll just say that some many ages ago I attempted to kick-start a BAT thread which never got anywhere and I've staggered into BAT'ing on and off since. I have a limited knowledge when it comes to working in 3dsmax and everything I know I taught mostly myself, however I'll mainly be doing most projects I think with Gmax, so forgive my potential crudeness...

Now to business - I've gathered the courage to start this thread and face the criticism (I hope) of the now very experienced and professionally BAT community so that I can finally contribute at last... by this I mean strictly Toronto BAT's, for now at least.
However I don't have anything really I can post here yet, I do apologize if this thread turns out to be a little pre-mature, but as I am still busy in the real world I'll be sure to make the time to get something to show after the weekend when I get to really sit down and hammer something out...

Looking forward to having something to show later and hear what you guys think!

Cheers!

[Silur 3,297]

Hi, Soapy ...

Welcome and You're right with Your own BAT thread ... You can show us Your works and You can see some minds about it ... before some cracks and humiliations on STEX ...

There are many Simtropolians can help You here ...

This thread is a real way to a Glory ...

Good Luck ...

  Edited June 28, 2012 by Silur  

[Prens 168]

Good luck Sopay, and have fun!

*Eagerly waits for some creations to be posted*

[darn42 1,268]

Good luck Soapy. I recently posted an omnibus tutorial on some basic spline modeling, and polygon modeling as pt 1 of a series of tutorials. I think you should check it out if you are having trouble getting started modeling.

I look forward to what you can make

edit: https://www.simtropolis.com/omnibus/_/simcity-4/batlot-editor-tutorials/3ds-max-mixed-modeling-tutorial-r238

there's the link

  Edited June 28, 2012 by darn42  

[Jasoncw 11,839]

I think if you have 3ds Max you should use it. It has tools which make it easier to do various things, it doesn't crash as much and files don't get corrupted as much, it renders better and faster, and I think most importantly, it's a lot easier to get information about 3ds Max than gmax. There's a huge amount of information in Help>Help, and for anything you can think of you can search google and you'll get tons and tons of tutorials and tips and advice.

Good luck with your BATing endeavors.

[.soapy 127]

well you were certainly right about render times, Jason- I was reluctant to work with 3dsMax but after the render times in gmax were killing me I started a new project in 3ds...

so I cooked this up rather quickly and have been getting some decent looking renders, and am quite happy with it overall thus far...

  Edited August 22, 2012 by Soapy.  

[gutterclub 2,729]

Looking good. Have you installed BAT4MAX as it might be great getting nice looking renders but ideally the only render needed is a proper preview render so you can gauge the scale and how it will loolk in game. Keep it up, you'll enjoy max

[Deathtoall 28]

Soapy, i am so happy you have restarted your BATting and i love this building already. Lots of props to you!

[harishna 847]

I really like what I see!

[zahrul3 471]

gMax seems to be slightly better for me in smaller/more repetitive BATs(suburban stuff, small offices, euro tileset, etc), while 3dsmax is better for large buildings, especially those with lots of glass. It explains why houses modeled in 3dsmax look slightly odd while gmax modeled skyscrapers look too bland and novice. That said, there are gMax users who could emulate 3dsmax(madhatter106, most of BSC, NDEX) and there are 3dsmax users who emulate gmax by using BAT's renderer(scanline) to fit in tilesets dominated by gmax stuff(Parisian set, SFBT set, Scandinavian set and the BSC set). The Mental Ray renderer in BAT4MAX is a bit tacky on the mentioned tilesets. Anyway though, 3dsmax is also easier to use than gmax once you know all the techniques.

[gutterclub 2,729]

The Mental Ray renderer in BAT4MAX is a bit tacky on the mentioned tilesets.

Are you able to supply us with some examples of these 'tacky' BATs and your actual reasoning as to why you find them tacky??

[.soapy 127]

gMax seems to be slightly better for me in smaller/more repetitive BATs(suburban stuff, small offices, euro tileset, etc), while 3dsmax is better for large buildings, especially those with lots of glass.

I'm inclined to agree with you here...

as I have a smaller building I was initially going to make in gmax, it seemed - for the reasons you mentioned - a better choice...

[IDS2 3,344]

gMax seems to be slightly better for me in smaller/more repetitive BATs(suburban stuff, small offices, euro tileset, etc), while 3dsmax is better for large buildings, especially those with lots of glass. It explains why houses modeled in 3dsmax look slightly odd while gmax modeled skyscrapers look too bland and novice. That said, there are gMax users who could emulate 3dsmax(madhatter106, most of BSC, NDEX) and there are 3dsmax users who emulate gmax by using BAT's renderer(scanline) to fit in tilesets dominated by gmax stuff(Parisian set, SFBT set, Scandinavian set and the BSC set). The Mental Ray renderer in BAT4MAX is a bit tacky on the mentioned tilesets. Anyway though, 3dsmax is also easier to use than gmax once you know all the techniques.

So it's not a matter of gmax vs. 3dsMax, it's a matter of MR vs. Scanline...3dsMax surpasses gmax in many ways, and I wouldn't recommend modeling a building in one or the other based on the default rendering engine of each one.

  Edited July 4, 2012 by IDS2  

[darn42 1,268]

Agreed. Gmax greatly limits what you can do. Just because 3ds max has the option to make what you do photorealistic doesn't mean you should use a, frankly, far inferior program. On the idea that houses made in 3ds max are worse than gmax, have you seen Bipins last small house he made? It is beautiful, and anything but tacky.

Btw, soapy, that quick building you put together is looking fantastic. One thing I have to say, that isn't a bad thing really, is the design is very close to IDS2's BAT he's been working on and is nearly finished, that wells fargo building.

Keep it up Soapy

[zahrul3 471]

gMax seems to be slightly better for me in smaller/more repetitive BATs(suburban stuff, small offices, euro tileset, etc), while 3dsmax is better for large buildings, especially those with lots of glass. It explains why houses modeled in 3dsmax look slightly odd while gmax modeled skyscrapers look too bland and novice. That said, there are gMax users who could emulate 3dsmax(madhatter106, most of BSC, NDEX) and there are 3dsmax users who emulate gmax by using BAT's renderer(scanline) to fit in tilesets dominated by gmax stuff(Parisian set, SFBT set, Scandinavian set and the BSC set). The Mental Ray renderer in BAT4MAX is a bit tacky on the mentioned tilesets. Anyway though, 3dsmax is also easier to use than gmax once you know all the techniques.

So it's not a matter of gmax vs. 3dsMax, it's a matter of MR vs. Scanline...3dsMax surpasses gmax in many ways, and I wouldn't recommend modeling a building in one or the other based on the default rendering engine of each one.

I think scanline's the deal. Maybe animated cartoons are the reason MR has a cartoony look(modern cartoons use MR), thats why...

The Mental Ray renderer in BAT4MAX is a bit tacky on the mentioned tilesets.

Are you able to supply us with some examples of these 'tacky' BATs and your actual reasoning as to why you find them tacky??

Just go out there in the CJ area and see that certain 3dsmax BATs are rarely used by CJers. Bipin's homes are an example, saw it on his CJ and didn't turn out as well as it did on the renderer. You'll also be hard-pressed to find MR BATs within the BSC/NDEX and Euro tilesets as they are mostly rendered in 3dsMax.

  Edited July 5, 2012 by zahrul3  

[gutterclub 2,729]

So what if like me you don't really use old BATs from NDEX and don't do a CJ, that still mean all the Simfox, BSP, NYBT bats are tacky? I'm having trouble following your flawed logic?

[T Wrecks 10,209]

*cough*

Erm... folks, this is Soapy's BAT thread. Could we talk about Soapy's BATs here and continue that renderer discussion elsewhere?

BTT, I'd really like to see some progress. I like the building, especially because you added the side building as well. Will there be a connection between both parts, or will they remain separate?

[.soapy 127]

BTT, I'd really like to see some progress. I like the building, especially because you added the side building as well. Will there be a connection between both parts, or will they remain separate?

it's all connected as a 3 building complex all of which will be included into the final result.

Here it is from the reverse angle in place as part of the University of Toronto's department of physics...

  Edited August 22, 2012 by Soapy.  

[Francis90b 748]

I don't think that the renderer discussion is off topic at all.

Instead, i think it could be very useful for the thread's author - someone can hear the exchange of different ideas, but the most useful thing for him to hear is on what basis are those ideas coming from...as far as i can see, this came later, in the part that is being considered as "off topic".

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Yes, and maybe a separate thread for a discussion on the particularities, strengths and weaknesses of the available renderers could be useful for all BATters.

@ Soapy: Wow, I like what I see! This should make for a very interesting BAT in SimCity. I just love it when a highrise comes with some sort of podium or base. Some parts of the overall layout (box tower plus low-rise annex, connected by a narrow building part) remind me of IDS2's Wells Fargo Plaza I have recently lotted - another BAT that I like very much.

[IL. 1,043]

That is your first BAT?

[.soapy 127]

That is your first BAT?

no, actually. my first BAT's I made as early as 2007 - none of them made it to the STEX or elsewhere...

I do however have some screen-shots I've managed to hold onto over time...

The first is the earliest BAT I still have an image of from 2008, which is the commerce court north building in Toronto.

The second image being my first 3ds 'BAT' from around 2010, which happens to be 220 bay street also in Toronto.

EDIT: I should also mention that these two projects are dead - don't expect these on the STEX any time in the future...

  Edited August 22, 2012 by Soapy.  

[gutterclub 2,729]

Wow, the top one is nice..if we can expect this sort of quality we shall be in for a treat!!

[Jasoncw 11,839]

hmmmm I think I remember you working on the art deco building...

The new building is looking good so far. Looking forward to a proper preview render.

[Bipin 3,402]

gMax seems to be slightly better for me in smaller/more repetitive BATs(suburban stuff, small offices, euro tileset, etc), while 3dsmax is better for large buildings, especially those with lots of glass. It explains why houses modeled in 3dsmax look slightly odd while gmax modeled skyscrapers look too bland and novice. That said, there are gMax users who could emulate 3dsmax(madhatter106, most of BSC, NDEX) and there are 3dsmax users who emulate gmax by using BAT's renderer(scanline) to fit in tilesets dominated by gmax stuff(Parisian set, SFBT set, Scandinavian set and the BSC set). The Mental Ray renderer in BAT4MAX is a bit tacky on the mentioned tilesets. Anyway though, 3dsmax is also easier to use than gmax once you know all the techniques.

So it's not a matter of gmax vs. 3dsMax, it's a matter of MR vs. Scanline...3dsMax surpasses gmax in many ways, and I wouldn't recommend modeling a building in one or the other based on the default rendering engine of each one.

I think scanline's the deal. Maybe animated cartoons are the reason MR has a cartoony look(modern cartoons use MR), thats why...

The Mental Ray renderer in BAT4MAX is a bit tacky on the mentioned tilesets.

Are you able to supply us with some examples of these 'tacky' BATs and your actual reasoning as to why you find them tacky??

Just go out there in the CJ area and see that certain 3dsmax BATs are rarely used by CJers. Bipin's homes are an example, saw it on his CJ and didn't turn out as well as it did on the renderer. You'll also be hard-pressed to find MR BATs within the BSC/NDEX and Euro tilesets as they are mostly rendered in 3dsMax.

I know I'm reviving something a tad old here, but I just couldn't let it go, so bear with me. My house BATs were are not underused because they were made in 3ds Max. What you've done is made a correlation between two details irrelevant to one-another. The houses are not used simply because they do not grow very easily, and furthermore because of the great amount of dependencies. Such a comment could easily be construed as offensive, because it's evident you did not read any of the comments on my house BAT; none of which support your (zahrul3's) pseudo-factual argument.

On another note, excellent BATs soapy, I like what you're doing!

  Edited July 18, 2012 by Bipin  

[.soapy 127]

oh look! here's a thing...

I wanted to get a bit more done with the model before posting, but it's as much as I could get done and it's been much too long since I posted - now I really need to sleep.

[Prens 168]

omg a thing! I love things! and this thing is definitely looking good!

looking forward to more of this thing

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Yeah looks really great, keep it up.

[gutterclub 2,729]

Looks wonderful, would love to see a proper preview of it

[darn42 1,268]

Mmm-mmm good.