Discussion about Always-On Connection to Origin

[cubercaleb 8]

Why do I get the strange feeling that the same thing that happened to Diablo III on launch will happen with SimCity, can't that darn game just not use always online drm (aka Origin, the mother of all spywares). I really don't want getting this game, then not being able to play it day one because the servers can't handle it, then having the pirates brag that they can play it just fine. Sigh, why is it that they always get out of these horrible messes, well I hope SimCity doesn't pull a Diablo III on us...

Wait, is that what this "beta" is for? Server testing?

[Pandemic 32]

I reckon you shouldn't whinge until you have some valid proof that it won't work. This beta will stress test the servers, and wait until the game is released and showing obvious signs that its a failure before whining. There's no changing it now so whinging won't change that.

[Igo 11]

What happened to Diablo 3 on its launch?

[cubercaleb 8]

What happened to Diablo 3 on its launch?

It used and always online drm service, no connection, no play, and of course the servers went down day one because of how many people were trying to get on it.

[flyer2359 92]

What happened to Diablo 3 on its launch?

It used and always online drm service, no connection, no play, and of course the servers went down day one because of how many people were trying to get on it.

With all of the Beta codes that people have for SimCity, I think this Beta will be a good test for the servers and allow them to work out any bugs with the servers.

[Vorret 49]

What happened to Diablo 3 on its launch?

It used and always online drm service, no connection, no play, and of course the servers went down day one because of how many people were trying to get on it.

With all of the Beta codes that people have for SimCity, I think this Beta will be a good test for the servers and allow them to work out any bugs with the servers.

No, no it won't.

Every single company in the history of online launch has underestimated how many people would try to log in.

Every time. It never fails. This game won't be different, there won't be any magic that stops it from crashing and ruining everyone's night, it's the way it is and you have to accept that.

[Spatzimaus 77]

Every single company in the history of online launch has underestimated how many people would try to log in.

Wrong. Most don't underestimate, they just know that it's not worth it to scale to the estimates. Take a typical MMO as an example.

On any given day, maybe 20% of the playerbase will be logged in during prime time hours. Some people won't log in that day, some will log in but will only play a couple hours, and some put in a full night of play. This is the stable equilibrium, the kind of thing you budget for on a long-term basis. But on launch day, it's more like 50%; practically everyone who followed the development wants to play on that day, and most of them want to play for longer-than-normal periods. The server load is much, much higher, and that period lasts a few days (occasionally weeks) before the populations drop to their more stable values. (The only reason it's as LOW as 50% is because of the distribution of time zones and the fact that some folks won't have their copies on launch day.)

If you're a publisher, what do you do? If you buy enough servers to handle the 50% number cleanly, then you've wasted a tremendous amount of money on machines you won't need once the first week or two has passed. If you only buy the amount needed for the 20% equilibrium, you won't have enough capacity for those first few days. Most MMOs now have "head start" periods, so that pre-order/beta players could get those first few high-activity days out of the way before the general population arrives, to reduce the spike, and that helps a bit. But what most companies do is perform "stress test" betas, LIKE THIS ONE, that test exactly how many people can play at once on a server before it can't handle the strain. Sure, you might have assumed 1 server can handle 10,000 players, but it's good to test experimentally exactly how high that number can be pushed in an emergency; if it can handle 20k or more for a few days, then there's no need for extra launch servers at all.

So no, publishers don't consistently underestimate. They're taking a calculated risk that minor connection issues during the week of launch will be forgiven, and buying the server capacity for the long term. And stress tests, like this weekend, are essential for gauging that.

[strokesboy21 11]

look up urbanexboi on twitter should be half way down my page

[Towel 76]

From what I have seen and read of SimCity (2013) the always online feature is essential to the style of game they have built. That the game has been designed deliberately to be dynamic based on the actions of hundreds of users. In other words, if the game had an offline mode then features would need to be either "missing" or faked.

While I would love to see an offline mode, obviously whatever components are being simulated by the Maxis servers and affected by other players needs to be worth the inability to play offline.

From this perspective, calling the always online requirement DRM is a little extreme and a little irrational.

I think you have an argument for say playing offline because you want the freedom to (like playing on your laptop at a friends house), but to call it DRM and cry it's all about preventing piracy ... Give me a break!

[Megavolt64 7]

I will throw in my 2 cents and say I hate that EA is going to force online play only. This is a deal breaker for me. If my internet goes down (I have wireless, it happens a lot) I would usually look to playing a game but no, I won't be able to play Simcity when my internet is down. Having a game connect to the internet is not a problem but not letting me play at all without a connection is wrong. Other games that require an internet login will still let you play offline. And don't let them fool you into thinking it is to enhance the game play, it is for DRM. Here is the quote from the Game Informer review.

"There are a lot of people who want us to be making a 1990s-era game. A lot people who want us to make SimCity4++. It's not the '90s anymore. The world has moved on," says Quigley. "We're building a new game in this new environment. The Internet is a thing now." From my time with SimCity, this goal of constant connectedness serves the game well. Yes, you need to be online to play, even in single-player. Yes, it doubles as a form of copy protection, but it doesn't impact the quality of the game mechanics.

[~Dee~ 215]

A lot of people posted saying they don't mind the always online because they have internet 24/7, but that isn't the problem.

You are dependent on a server and all servers go down more often than people like to admit.

So it doesn't matter that you are always connected to the internet, if there is a message " Server unavailable" you can't play and I don't see why I should pay $90 for a game what is utterly dependent on a server. What can't be played any other way.

When I bought Anno 2070 I didn't know that game needed a constant internet connection, I installed it and guess what... when I wanted to play it, the server was down.

Couldn't play for 7 days, on their forums people were in an uproar.

No thanks I stick to games what give you an option for offline as well as online gaming.

[macvirt 361]

Yep, this game needs to have an independent, offline single player mode where we can connect multiple cities in a region.

Period. End of story.

Not going to happen. EA's directives are clear. Remember the fear of piracy. Do not expect logic or actual research in to DRM.

[magicrobbie 77]

Beta servers are down and failing. EA - listen to your customers and give us offline single player!

[Irganox 10]

How many online games didn't have trouble with the servers at launch? The online games that I'm playing almost NEVER have any problems logging in, except during their launch. It's gonna be like this with Sim City too. A week after launch, it's not gonna be any problems - of at least it's gonna be pretty rare. Sure, it might be a bit frustrating, but if people are freaking out just because a server is down for a few hours, they probably have some other issues.

[macvirt 361]

From what I have seen and read of SimCity (2013) the always online feature is essential to the style of game they have built. That the game has been designed deliberately to be dynamic based on the actions of hundreds of users. In other words, if the game had an offline mode then features would need to be either "missing" or faked.

Apologies, but that is just the marketing. The reality, something EA themselves presented last year at GDC, is that these methods are part of an evolving strategy of user profiling research and anti piracy. A strategy then translated into directives for the studios and their development of titles. The rest is just marketing. There are no technical requirements or such which limit development according to these lines, or even for these lines. These are choices, they just originate in a completely different level than what used to be game design. The games industry is first and foremost business. Customers are resources.

There are exceptions to that approach, absolutely. But the EA conglomerate is not such an exception. On the contrary, it is leading in ventures like these. Because this is what pays for them.

[Jim14409 448]

How many online games didn't have trouble with the servers at launch? The online games that I'm playing almost NEVER have any problems logging in, except during their launch. It's gonna be like this with Sim City too. A week after launch, it's not gonna be any problems - of at least it's gonna be pretty rare. Sure, it might be a bit frustrating, but if people are freaking out just because a server is down for a few hours, they probably have some other issues.

Don't you think that a week after launch most people will have finally discovered just how shallow and not conducive to years or even months of replay SC2013 really is?. Yep.

Other issues? I doubt that. When people PAY for something they expect to be able to utilize it in the way they see fit in the time they see fit or have available. Some people may only have an hour or a day to play all that week and to find that the servers are down is understandably infuriating. It appears EA/Maxis could care less. Perhaps they should get out into the real world once in a while where everyone does not have top of the line Internet access.

I hope they lose more $ to lack of sales than they ever lost to thieving pirates. There are other ways to fight pirates but it seems the industry has increasingly chosen the path that punishes the innocent more than the thief.

Again, if people cannot access or play a game they paid for they have every right to be angry.

[Urban Cartographer 601]

EA is shooting itself to the foot. Please give us a 100% offline single player mode to save your face! Don't be like Bli$$ard with the third devil of its server issues!

[SirChick 184]

LOL Servers down this is exactly why online only is bad. I can't play it now.

[tgm9000 8]

I received the email about the beta (along with my key) last night. I set it to download and decided to wait until today to play.

So far, after several hours of just going back and forth to check... the servers continue to stay "down". Single player mode is essential unless you guarantee server uptime.

I'm an avid SimCity player, been playing since 1.0... however, this experience already has me grumbling and I haven't seen anything beyond the title screen! Infrastructure has problems, we all understand that especially for a beta release. However, I see nothing official from Origin telling us "why" it's down or that it's even acknowledged! Crazy.

Tim

[Jackbnimble 0]

Sixty dollars plus?

In that case, it doesn't matter how good the game is, or how good it is claimed to be. I will not spend $60 on any game.

Many of the arguments being made in favor of SC2013 sound very similar to the arguments made by Monte Cristo around the time of the release of Cities XL. I have to admit, the arguments made then by Monte Cristo and now by EA/Origin/Maxis/Whoever sound real good on paper. But as Monte Cristo found out, sounding good on paper is not exactly the same as being good where the rubber meets the road, in the market place.

I get no satisfaction over seeing companies/games fail, but as things stand right now, I for one will not beadding to its success by supporting it with my dollars,

CitiesXL was a classic case where the marketing talk was just that, marketing talk. No vision for depth beyond the idea of rapid revenue generation (for which the game quite simply lacked what was needed to spur deeper immersion than just what the marketing focus delivered).

This question of "is the marketing all it is" really is always the big question with most releases these days. Some titles do the marketing but also do the game, and that turns out fine. Sometimes those struggle a bit because prospect customers do not get a whole lot more until release than just the talk (something which impacts things like anticipation and expectation alike).

Never buy in to any marketing. Just dive in upon release, accept that it is not a next SC4, and see for yourself with the information available after release whether it ticks for you. If it does, cool. If it doesn't, maybe DLC will make it tick for you in time. Cause DLC these days is really the only mechanism (sometimes) allowed to deepen the product experience over time.

If the online requirement isn't fixed I would recommend people steer clear. It's the only way that companies will stop doing it.

Myself didn't get the Monte Cristo Cities XL but only years late , when playing online talking stopped, that is by 2011. Didn't get neither Starcraft 2 or Diablo III , and I will steer out of Sim City, if it keeps mentioning online need. I don't want to be online and pay for telephonia companies services because they want me to...

And yet I am still able to play cities xl, and you can still buy it on steam.

[Hoipus 292]

I've complained a lot about the online requirement, but strangely enough I've never had any trouble being able to start playing. I still do wish there were an offline mode, though.

[Jackbnimble 0]

I've complained a lot about the online requirement, but strangely enough I've never had any trouble being able to start playing. I still do wish there were an offline mode, though.

As far as I understand (although I am not stating this as fact), even people with a slower internet conection shouldn't have any problems playing either, because the game servers are updating info every 3 minutes, so it's not true real time with the servers. It shouldn't be like playing a FPS like Battle Feild3 where you need a fast connection to play directly with other players.

I get that people want to be able to play offline, I also would prefer having that option., but every time I turn my pc on it automatically connects me to the net.I play my games through steam and origin, mostly single player games including SC4 and I am always still logged online.That doesn't mean that I can't play in offline mode because I can, but I just don't, why would I? The only time I will ever see a problem with this is if I neglect to pay my internet bill or the servers are undergoing maintenance or crash which is going to happen. Anybody who's ever played an MMO knows what that is all about, and that is with a monthly subscribtion (excluding the FTP).

I am not deffending the DRM excuse , I don't like it either for the same reasons as everyone else.But it is what it is , and we can either deal with it and move on or simply vote with our wallets.I am buying simcity, and I am also confident that other issues like tile size will be addressed.

I can't imagin the SUPER REGIONS that can be built with a SUPER community like the one here at Simtropolis.

[wozzar 154]

So does anyone think EA will do a back down and drop the always online either before the game is launched or after once they see how bad the sales are for it. Oh wait EA will just blame the pirates for poor sales.

Anyway they have done back downs before with Spore. So it will be interesting to see what the stubborn EA will do.

[macvirt 361]

So does anyone think EA will do a back down and drop the always online either before the game is launched or after once they see how bad the sales are for it. Oh wait EA will just blame the pirates for poor sales.

Anyway they have done back downs before with Spore. So it will be interesting to see what the stubborn EA will do.

No. These things are part of a larger strategy, across multiple titles and releases. The "backing down" with Spore was expected as part of an introduction of methods for an audience less accustomed to it, now these things are more common and people have less awareness and resistance. Add to that how the game is designed to cater to types of customers who really are not the typical SC4 type of customer, plus how it is marketed, and the sum of it all is an overall very decreased likelyhood of having to back down.

[Hoipus 292]

There just needs to be a part of the system that annoys EA more than it does the customers. For example, Ubisoft eventually toned down the DRM for Anno 2070 after getting fed up with all of the people asking for new activations after installing new hardware.

[wozzar 154]

There just needs to be a part of the system that annoys EA more than it does the customers. For example, Ubisoft eventually toned down the DRM for Anno 2070 after getting fed up with all of the people asking for new activations after installing new hardware.

You would think EA would have learned from UBI. I still think it will be a flop like SCS the audience they are trying to attract wont be interested just like SCS.

[CaptCity 4,893]

Just a reminder... What happens at other sites stays at the other sites... Some posts have been removed.

[macvirt 361]

There just needs to be a part of the system that annoys EA more than it does the customers. For example, Ubisoft eventually toned down the DRM for Anno 2070 after getting fed up with all of the people asking for new activations after installing new hardware.

You would think EA would have learned from UBI. I still think it will be a flop like SCS the audience they are trying to attract wont be interested just like SCS.

How does one degrade customer resistances to change? By consistantly staying on course, adjusting for lessons learned without deviating from targets set. Along the way you pick up better marketing, audiences change, resistances erode, and you can continue nurturing corporate strategy over time. A single title having issues means nothing in these matters, the only thing that matters is the set of corporate strategy targets over the course of 10 to 15 business cycles. That's more than a decade's worth of "vision".

[rybolton 135]

I've been pretty upset about this design decision from the beginning. I want to be able to play on my laptop while riding the train or in a crappy campground in the middle of nowhere. I don't really need to play with other players to make my gaming experience complete. I don't care about the "global" economy, and above all, I hate being treated like a criminal with ridiculous DRM (which is what this is really about, if anyone still thinks that this isn't a DRM decision you're deluding yourself) that won't let me save my game locally. I said all of those things and was prepared to stick to my principles and vote with my wallet... ...until I played the beta... ...it was really fun... ...and now I'm going to buy it...

This smiley expresses my shame...

[arcology 224]

Was very excited for this game, until finding out about the constant online requirements, given EA's propensity for shutting down servers for games.

If they would consider an offline mode, as servers going down will eventually happen, then I would consider buying it, however, with the response people have been getting, I don't think that will happen any time soon, if at all.

I think part of the problem is they really want people to be connected inorder to buy the future items they will be selling. If people are already online, and it is easy, and they want it - it's right there and I think they are counting on that, also.