Real Highway (RHW) - Development and Support

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Good to see all these tips, and I hope someone is collecting them into an improved documentation set.  I know documentation is a drag, but if it is behind and things are changing such as outlined above, some serious notices in the release notes (at least) need to be made.

The problem with documentation on a set this complex is that it will probably never catch up to the changes unless a willing hand or hands take on the job.  Whoever does this has to be plugged in to the NAM team and a user of all features.

[rsc204 21,836]

Of course the documentation is something that could do with improvement. At the end of the day, anyone who's willing/capable would be most welcome to assist with the Wiki.

The fact that these ramps are "depreciated" should give some clues about their compatibility. Sadly many users are still oblivious to the flexible variants for many pieces, even those which are well documented. Such an issue of altering mindsets, is a battle documentation alone will not cure. For example, why do people levitate towards these older ramps, when the Flex-Ramps are so much simpler and more flexible to use. So far as I know, since NAM 33 they've had pretty good support for most frequently used setups?

I feel it's important also to point out that in most cases I can think of, anything not directly covered in a readme, has been demonstrated or documented somewhere. It would help if these were less fragmented, for example just to put together a page of useful links would probably help tie everything together. Now I've thought of that, I'll see if I can't make it happen.

At the end of the day though, with our current resources, hitting the documentation hard would inevitably hold up development of NAM features. I don't think any of us modders particularly enjoy writing documentation, it's just another of those jobs we must do to release our work. I can't realistically see us holding off creating to concentrate solely on this area. After all, if we can't enjoy our hobby, why would we devote ourselves to it? I'm not suggesting documentation is not important, but there is no magical plaster we can stick on this problem. So realistically, getting things better organised will be a long term process for such a comprehensive mod.

[Tarkus 6,932]

Excellent post, rsc!

Regarding the whole static vs. flexible side of things, I think some of it is just old habits dying hard, and the rest of it is with newer users not knowing the difference, clicking the old buttons and seeing a version of what they want.  The rollout of some of the FLEX features in NAM 31 was also not the smoothest (nor was anything in NAM 31, for that matter), and that's given us an extra barrier to overcome.  There's also the fact that the needed scale of the FLEX efforts is gigantic--due to the RHW itself being gigantic--which has forced us to do it in phases.  There is the prospect of making the deprecated items much harder to access, which we've kind of been trying with the puzzle-based RHW Height Transitions, but when certain items haven't yet been converted, it unfortunately gives too much exposure to the deprecated versions of items that have.  Those old curved height transitions have been a particular thorn in the side in that effort, and the old puzzle ramp interfaces still have about 5 or 6 more specialized pieces that haven't gotten FLEX/DRI implementations yet.

-Tarkus

[torontosubway 11]

11 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I've quickly tested the pieces and your problem is you are using the older puzzle-based ramps. These were designed for the previous spec DD-RHW which was at L3 for the top part. This was changed to L2 and these puzzle ramps will not be updated to fit the new standard. You must use either the FlexRamp or Draggable Ramps, which work just fine.

Okay, thanks for your help. I still have the habit of using old pieces and didn't really experiment with the FLEX ramps (which is actually more convenient), I tend to freak out every time I see those broken pieces when building with FLEX lol. Thanks a lot for your help, appreciated.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Maybe someone can do a quick reference of the advantages of the FLEX system.  One of the problems that all users have, particularly newer ones, is that the fact that some of this material is in transition is not clear.  I know everyone tries to make it obvious, but novices will have no end of trouble.  Maybe there could be a separation in the installer, with clear designations of items that are denigrated and will disappear soon.

I am not a current RHW user, so I am really ignorant of what is going on at the moment, but there appears to be some confusion.

[Tarkus 6,932]

8 hours ago, A Nonny Moose said:

Maybe someone can do a quick reference of the advantages of the FLEX system.  One of the problems that all users have, particularly newer ones, is that the fact that some of this material is in transition is not clear.  I know everyone tries to make it obvious, but novices will have no end of trouble.  Maybe there could be a separation in the installer, with clear designations of items that are denigrated and will disappear soon.

I am not a current RHW user, so I am really ignorant of what is going on at the moment, but there appears to be some confusion.

I think that's an excellent idea--thanks for the great suggestion.  We have denotated the old static puzzle piece button as "deprecated", and made it a non-default item that the user explicitly has to check in a custom installation, but the curved height transition (which hasn't gotten a FLEX implementation yet, as we don't have the models for it) has been causing that button to be installed more than it's not.

-Tarkus

[Wiimeiser 445]

With the draggable replacements, I have problems splitting RHW-8 into two RHW-4s, I always end up with the inner lane being a 6S. Looking at the guide, the diagonal at the start appears to be the problem.

 

EDIT: I'm talking about the current deprecated puzzle pieces and that.

[rsc204 21,836]

If you've got as far as making a 8S D1 ramp (split to 6S and MIS), you just need to connect the two new carriageways together. See the DRI Table, it's the orange arrow you need to add and it should convert to an 8S D2.

[Tarkus 6,932]

I feel d...i...r...t...y....

 

-Tarkus

[watercitymadero 804]

oh por dios

 

[APSMS 1,893]

What have you done?!?!

[vedervardigt 15]

Hi,

I'm looking for these Euro RHW textures I had installed with NAM 32. I've re-installed NAM 34 couple of times now, tryingto get them back, with no luck. I didn't find any pictures so I made a sketch from memory. Hope it's somewhat recognizable.

They had these neat RHW-2 road and street intersections as well as a smooth default RHW-2 to road transition. If I remember correctly they had seemless intersections with Rivit's streets and the gravel and/or dirt SAMs.

What are they called and are they in v. 34? Or are they one of the Euro texture sets not included anymore?

[rsc204 21,836]

The Euro Textures used up until NAM 32 were created by @MandelSoft. Sadly he has since moved on from SimCity 4 and is no longer creating/updating these textures. The Dragable Ramp Interchanges introduced in NAM 33, amongst other features, necessitated some big changes to the original RHW textures. No one is continuing to develop MandelSoft's original texture sets, which covered more than just EU textures.

In order to continue to provide EU textures as an option, a completely new set was created, which is based off the default US textures. These can be auto-generated from the US textures, which is vastly less work than continuing to support the originals. Frankly, the NAM team simply didn't have the resources to manage all these additional textures and keep making content as well.

Should someone step forward to update the original EU RHW textures, or create an alternate set, we would of course welcome having additional options once more. But unless that happens, the only supported set will be those textures included with NAM33/34 moving forwards.

 

[rsc204 21,836]

Well after a long period without any updates, I'm glad to announce that as of NAM 35, a major "refresh" will be added for the Maxis Highway Override (MHO).

You may have seen some of these pieces as part of my MHO Patch Mod, but let me assure you there is much more in store here:

These are the first proper MHO Bridges for both L0/L2 networks:

Not forgetting DBE support either:

It's about time RRW was properly supported too:

Update: Thanks to @Swordmaster's code updates, STR will be fully supported also (not shown).

Updates for better compatibility with Moonlights Alternate El-Rail:

In addition to Moonlights BTM Mod:

Not forgetting full support for U-Rail, GLR Networks, CAN-AM, draggable road viaducts and much more besides. A couple hundred path fixes to keep your automata on the right track. Greatly expanded support for LHD users and probably more too that I've forgotten.

And lastly, full support for the Japanese NAM Facelift Mod style overpasses. Note: this is not included in the NAM, please download this separate mod:

 

[Lost Realist 762]

Added support is always exciting news, so are the bridges. Great stuff.

[metasmurf 705]

I haven't read all the threads, but are there plans to make L1 road ortho and diagonal (puzzle pieces or dragable) over diagonal RHW? This would open up some new possibilities.

[rsc204 21,836]

The plan is for the Draggable Road Viaducts to eventually cover all situations which were supported by the puzzle pieces. In addition to improving the potential crossing options available. I think the option to cross both Diagonal RHW and use Diagonal viaducts over RHW is definitely planned. But I can't say when this will happen, although some improvements should make NAM35, I'm certain that such add-ons won't be amongst them.

However, for roads, I'd simply transition to RHW-2 to cross RHW, that way you should have a huge number of potential options. Diagonal OST's and Ramps are also in the works for RHW, which will make things even more flexible. I wouldn't expect to see those for the road viaducts until after the RHW ones. Since as with most NAM developments, RHW is pretty much where things start.

[Tarkus 6,932]

4 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I think the option to cross both Diagonal RHW and use Diagonal viaducts over RHW is definitely planned. But I can't say when this will happen, although some improvements should make NAM35, I'm certain that such add-ons won't be amongst them.

Just popped into confirm.  This will probably be my next project after I finally get the FLEX Turn Lanes done (currently planned for NAM 36).

-Tarkus

[Joe 90 358]

Hi folks,

Is there any way to get a diagonal RHW-4 viaduct to ground, either by ramp or on-slope pieces?

I've got myself hemmed in between mountains, tunnel portals and bridges and need to do this diagonally if possible. Orthogonal would be easy, but it isn't an option in this location unfortunately.

[APSMS 1,893]

@Joe 90 You may find this tutorial by @McDuell handy, although it requires leaving the game and using the DBE (Diagonal Bridge Enabler) to complete.

[Tarkus 6,932]

I'll add that there has been some development on diagonal height transitions.  They've been temporarily shelved, but we do plan on dusting them off in the near future.

-Tarkus

[Joe 90 358]

Thanks guys. I had a thought the DBE might be able to be used this way, but I'd have never figured that method out!

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

This has probably been asked before (but I can't find it): What are the differences between RHW and MHO? Are they mutually exclusive? Is MHO as difficult to use as RHW (with all the fiddly little pieces that never fit together)? Where can I read about MHO? Can it be imposed on an existing region without demolishing all of my existing Maxis highways? Is there a better thread for asking these questions?

[matias93 7,535]

11 minutes ago, jeffryfisher said:

This has probably been asked before (but I can't find it): What are the differences between RHW and MHO? Are they mutually exclusive? Is MHO as difficult to use as RHW (with all the fiddly little pieces that never fit together)? Where can I read about MHO? Can it be imposed on an existing region without demolishing all of my existing Maxis highways? Is there a better thread for asking these questions?

In fewest possible words:

1. A replacement for vanilla highways vs. an independent highway system. 

2. Mutually complementary 

3. Almost as easy as the vanilla highways, but there are some small pieces. 

4. On the Project Symphony manual on the NAM documentation folder. 

5. Can be, replacement is automatical. Interchanges aren't replaced and the newer ones have a much bigger size. You'll have to remake them.

6. This is an adequate thread.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

Coming into the thread today, I ran by the OP. It says something about modding the dirt road network. That worries me because I think I also have a PEG rural roads mod with dirt roads. I wonder if there's a collision there and that maybe should delete one of the two. Is there an easy way to see if they're both trying to leverage the same incomplete Maxis network?

When I have a little more time, I will try to scan the 100+ pages of this thread to see if the issue has come up before.

[rsc204 21,836]

Dirt Road = RHW, it's nothing to do with either the SAM dirt roads or Dirt Road mod by PEG. Basically, we can not add new networks into the game, we can only override existing networks. The one exception to this was Dirt Road, because this was an unused network left behind by Maxis, so whilst you won't see it in the vanilla game, everything for it to work exists behind the scenes. It's this network that was used to make RHW, without it, there would be no RHW.

RHW has evolved a lot in a short space of time. Without diminishing all the work that happened beforehand, from NAM 32 to today it's a totally different animal. Not only much easier to use, but vastly more stable and with many more possibilities. Check out the link in my signature "How to: RHW - Basic Diamond Interchange using Flex Pieces". That should give you a glimpse of how easy you can now make basic interchanges.

MHO is something I like to think of as "My first RHW". That's because the basic network is pretty much MHO with a new look. But, the interchanges are based on just a few prefab pieces, which if you like can be integrated into the MIS system from RHW to make much more complex layouts. If you want to make better looking, more realistic interchanges, MHO is a no-brainer. But, if you are looking for simple plop and done interchanges, I'd stick with MHY. In any case, there is no harm in trying it out, you can always revert back if you don't like it.

 

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

Quote

Dirt Road = RHW, it's nothing to do with either the SAM dirt roads or Dirt Road mod by PEG.

So those other mods don't also use the unfinished Maxis dirt roads network?

[APSMS 1,893]

10 minutes ago, jeffryfisher said:

So those other mods don't also use the unfinished Maxis dirt roads network?

Those are actually street or road reskins (mostly street reskins as part of the SAM from the NAM, but PEG does offer a fully featured texture replacement mod that I think can be compatible with the NAM if you ignore the parts of PEG's mod that don't have appropriate replacement textures for all the newer NAM features that have been made since he retired from modding). Alternate texture sets if you like. Pure eye-candy, and have no functional effect. Sims will merrily drive over them the same as if they were as smooth as the autobahn.

The "Dirt Road" network is something else entirely, and not related to the other mods.

[HayleyRenaNemeth 465]

23 minutes ago, jeffryfisher said:

So those other mods don't also use the unfinished Maxis dirt roads network?

back in the day there was a left over network called the ANT , which looked like a regular road pretty much. 

[APSMS 1,893]

16 minutes ago, AprilAero said:

ANT

The Additional Network Tool, the official tech code name for the "DirtRoad" network that Maxis never fully finished for release, but did finish enough to allow it to properly interact with the other networks via RUL code.

So the ANT and the DirtRoad network and the RHW are all essentially the same thing. Just like Road-based variants of the NWM are essentially roads with different skins, and so on for any other override network.