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3 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

I just made a mistake and somehow edited the cost of the ponds for already existing instances which resulted in phantom cost remaining in the budget...

Yikes!

When you've rested and feel up to it, you can counter the phantom amount in the budget by making a temporary change to the cost that is the exact opposite of the troublesome amount, plop the lot in the game and save. Now edit the very same one and set the cost to zero, go in the game and bulldoze the temp lot, save again, and that should update the internal total back to normal. After exiting the game yet again, now edit that lot to what it should be costwise.

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Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

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    Ok. I think I'd like to try again and get it off my head.

    I'd like to do the previous operation of duplicating some objects. Then, removing the old .dat and gradually replacing any brown boxes with new items. Let's try it with one part of the Paeng's parks, hm? After all, souvenir shops and restaurants should bring income rather than a loss...?

    For the start I, of course, resaved the original file. Then, I generated new group and instance for all files (except the .dir file) and then reindexed them, rebuilding the directory at the same time. I also made a backup of this state so I can always go back. :meh:

    pic1.jpg.e05ad7df76306c4834c6ca6530b68d5b.jpg

    I checked in the game and in this state, the duplicated instances do appear alongside the original ones, so there is the starting point. But when I remove the original file, both versions disappear from the menu.

    If I get it right, the 13 rep of 0x00000000 entry should be updated to the number displayed in the lot editor...

    pic2.jpg.a0b2d7617767c42b160d97f4adc9bbe7.jpg

    ...right? Of course, each item should have the respective, individual number assigned.

    What should I do if my reworked items still don't show up in the menu after performing this operation? I'll try to make a test in the meantime to see how it goes. :whatevs:

    ______

    EDIT:

    When I tried to open my file in LeProp, I noticed that the icons of all objects are missing. *:???: It looks like this is part of the problem too!


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I'd like to do the previous operation of duplicating some objects. Then, removing the old .dat and gradually replacing any brown boxes with new items.

    It's not a great idea to remove content from your Plugins folder that still resides in your Cities, much safer to ensure you remove existing instances of things you intend to change beforehand.

    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    For the start I, of course, resaved the original file. Then, I generated new group and instance for all files (except the .dir file) and then reindexed them, rebuilding the directory at the same time. I also made a backup of this state so I can always go back. :meh:

    If the intention is to modify the existing Lots, but not use them in addition to the old ones, why bother messing around re-IDing anything? Save yourself the hassle and just modify the Lots as desired and re-plop them, you only need unique IDs when you want to use both sets.

    Note that simply altering the actual IDs of items, is not sufficient to create a new set of working files. Inside the Buildings Exemplar will be a number of Properties that reference various IDs, for example the Lot Icon, any linked LTexts and the like. Likewise you must make a single change in the LotConfig Exemplar for the Building on the lot, this is how the Lot knows which Buildings Exemplar to utilise. This will be the LotConfigPropertyLotObject which begins with 0x00000000, the last or 13th Rep needs to have the IID of the Buildings Exemplar.

    Since you are using the default Maxis Lot Editor, you could simply open an existing lot and make a copy by using Save As, which makes a duplicate of the lot with a new ID.

    One other issue you might have to contend with is specific to how Paeng modded some of his work, I believe he made use of Cohorts and other methods of reducing duplication. The problem with copying lots is that such links are invariably copied into your altered versions, if you don't understand these links, they can cause a number of issues. I can't remember exactly, but I do recall having to track down a number of issues I had, to ensure my new files worked properly when duplicating lots from both his Parks 205 and BikePath sets.


    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    15 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

    much safer to ensure you remove existing instances of things you intend to change beforehand

    I start to believe this might indeed be a better and easier idea after all. :meh: I have made some tests and none of them was successful...

    I don't have that many cities so I can still do it, but it's a hassle all the same.

    21 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

    If the intention is to modify the existing Lots, but not use them in addition to the old ones, why bother messing around re-IDing anything?

    The intention is to modify the costs of some items but if I do it on the .dat I have, I will be left with phantom costs in my budget. So that's the thing. :uhm:


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    5 hours ago, rsc204 said:

    It's not a great idea to remove content from your Plugins folder that still resides in your Cities, much safer to ensure you remove existing instances of things you intend to change beforehand.

    This is, ofc, the standard method. However, Cricket has said:

    On 11/9/2021 at 1:27 PM, TheMurderousCricket said:

    My idea is to reduce the costs of some items but... some of these items are already present in my cities en masse! :O I just can't remove all of them now! This is why I'd like to try these steps:

    1. Create duplicated instances of the chosen items, just like police stations in ModPacc Zero.

    2. Modify expenses (and profits! *:ohyes:) for the chosen items.

    3. Over time, remove all "vanilla" instances of the relevant objects.

    So, what he wants to do is to use my advanced method whereby all existing plopped lots maintain all their associated info (especially the monthly cost) while having duplicates of them which have a different cost.

    The way I did this for the MZ Police Stations is to create a duplicate of the vanilla ones removing their Police Menu OG so they don't show in the list, and then create new copies with different TGIs and properties. This means there is no Phantom Slider bug when leaving already plopped ones in a city while still allowing the updated versions to be plopped. Bulldozing a vanilla station then knows to alter the total monthly safety budget by the vanilla cost amount whilst adding or bulldozing the MZ versions uses the new info.

     

    7 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Then, I generated new group and instance for all files (except the .dir file) and then reindexed them, rebuilding the directory at the same time. I also made a backup of this state so I can always go back. 

    Way overkill. There are only a few things which need new ones. If giving them all completely different group and instance IDs then yes, you would have a bunch more things to modify as @rsc204 mentioned. And, ofc, the Cohorts he referred to can throw a spanner in the works too.

     

    Let's start with a vanilla Open Grass Park and I'll make a mod which shows my method. This'll give a starting point to illustrate the steps. While I work on that, would you create a linkys list of the files and deps needed for the parks you are working with? If my upcoming mini tutorial isn't sufficient for modifying those parks, I can then look into what the trouble might be such as the Cohorts.

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

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    2 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

    Let's start with a vanilla Open Grass Park and I'll make a mod which shows my method.

    Ah, forget it Cori... I went the "easy" way and removed most of the old items from my cities, then edited the files I wanted and put that in my plugins folder.

    I truly appreciate your readiness to help but I feel like I'm just not up to this job. Lots of time wasted. No more. *:(

    Besides, @rsc204 is right when saying that Paeng's parks have certain peculiarities. I noticed that myself, despite obviously having hardly any knowledge about modding.


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    4 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Ah, forget it Cori...

    Too late. *:P

    (Tutorial) Updating Lot Monthly Cost While Avoiding Phantom Budget Predicaments

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

    Are you new here? Check out the Introduction and Guide to Simtropolis.

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    6 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

    Good job my Friend. Maybe I'll try it some other time.

    But rather than that, I'll just better scrutinize maintenance costs before building anything...

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    Rest assured, I think there are some positive sides to this mess.

    The obvious thing is that I got rid of the most budget-consuming items. Some of my cities gained about 200$ just after some park elements were removed.

    But other than that, I noticed that both vanilla content and some of the addon stuff have items that don't make sense financially...

    Paeng's set has items like "Park hotel", "Supermarket" and "Kiosk" to name the few.

    Why would they bring a loss if, at least nominally, they are a form of commercial activity... (i.e. pay taxes)? *:???:

    This is why I used the "Business deal" parameter and assigned positive values to their "Budget item: cost" property.

    Another thing are the numerous vanilla landmarks.

    If you saw Tower of London materialize in the middle of San Francisco... wouldn't you be tempted to pay for the ticket and see it? :drool: Let alone the fact that many of the landmarks are commercial buildings as well! (Luckily I don't have any of them in my cities yet...)


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    16 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Why would they bring a loss if, at least nominally, they are a form of commercial activity... (i.e. pay taxes)? *:???:

    That's a little one-dimensional thinking, how the real world works is what a simulator is meant to convey, but it's not how things work under the hood. Since it's by default the case that where a Ploppable provides some sort of YIMBY benefits, it will come with a cost. I'd imagine that's why these lots were modded as they were, to work just as the base game does.

    16 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Another thing are the numerous vanilla landmarks.

    There is a mod for adding jobs to the Maxis Landmarks, although it doesn't remove the monthly cost, it effectively reduces it by bringing in taxes, perhaps enough to make them profitable too?

    16 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    If you saw Tower of London materialize in the middle of San Francisco... wouldn't you be tempted to pay for the ticket and see it? :drool:

    I doubt it, I never did when I was in London.

    Again though, however you see/want things, that's not the way the game was designed to work, the purpose of the Landmarks is to provide a boost to your city. Adding them costs you money, you are in effect paying to make your city more attractive. Look at this another way, if every such landmark paid out a net profit in taxes, what is to stop users from plopping many of them to make a load of extra cash? All the while, gaining from an otherwise cost-prohibitive positive Landmark effect. That's a huge cheat if you think about it, you've just made the game way easier. In the realm of the game, if not the real world, this actually doesn't make sense if you think about it.

    Not that I care personally, but there exists a proportion of the user base that would never use such 'cheats', because they wouldn't feel like they beat the game. Others may not care at all, preferring the extra cash, ultimately it's all quite subjective and down to each users preference.

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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

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    7 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

    That's a little one-dimensional thinking, how the real world works is what a simulator is meant to convey, but it's not how things work under the hood. Since it's by default the case that where a Ploppable provides some sort of YIMBY benefits, it will come with a cost.

    Hah! To be honest I didn't think of it that way. Your point totally makes sense.

    On the other hand, one may argue that there is nothing attractive about kiosks or supermarkets as such, so the desirability boost should either be reduced or removed in case of such items.

    Speaking of which... will desirability effect and range update itself after modding, or do I need to bulldoze everything again...?

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    13 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    On the other hand, one may argue that there is nothing attractive about kiosks or supermarkets as such, so the desirability boost should either be reduced or removed in case of such items.

    Right, but since these items were designed to be placed into a system of non transit-enabled parks, they wouldn't have worked as commercial buildings. Ultimately the only argument that matters is how you want things to be, which is only limited by your time and ability to make it happen.

    15 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Speaking of which... will desirability effect and range update itself after modding, or do I need to bulldoze everything again...?

    Since it's bad to alter values on-the-fly like this, literally it's one known potential way to kill your save files, I don't take chances. Better to remove them beforehand and then re-plop to be on the safe side. I soon learnt that if you are going to mod custom downloads, it's best done before you start using them. I have one city where I probably took some risks in this regard and as a result it keeps getting corrupted to the point the game CTDs when exiting it, although I can still save at least.

    Of course there are Properties/Links that are always read from the linked files, rather than embedded into the save file when they are plopped/grown. These won't cause you problems, but we know that some data once it's in the save file, will remain there regardless of what else changes. It's very easy to think everything looks fine, until you much later realise something's wrong, why take the risk?

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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    Heh, well, I just hope that these few phantom costs I have in some of my cities won't hurt!

    Isn't it possible to clean out some of them simply by editing save files? I recall seeing a forum topic about it, though I'm not sure if it can be used in such a way...?

     


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    3 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Speaking of which... will desirability effect and range update itself after modding, or do I need to bulldoze everything again...?

    2 hours ago, rsc204 said:

    Better to remove them beforehand and then re-plop to be on the safe side.

    It is absolutely better to remove any plop of any lot which has either Park Aura or Landmark Effect if you are altering the values. If not, you'll wind up with Phantom Auras in the same way as Phantom Costs did when you modded those.

    Ofc, if you make a copy of the Landmark, modify it to be completely unique for the various TGIs, and only plop those new ones, they will be ok. The key thing is that when bulldozing any lot that has those internally tracked properties is the Plugin for them must be identical to the info it had when originally plopped. (You can mod Landmarks in the same way I outlined in that tutorial. The only difference is for the vanilla ones is you'll remove the OccupantGroups 0x0000150A  to hide them from the menu.)

     

    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Isn't it possible to clean out some of them simply by editing save files? I recall seeing a forum topic about it, though I'm not sure if it can be used in such a way...?

    There is no user level tool for easy editing of save files. There are certain entries (which don't have a built-in checksum) which can be modified in hex via Reader if you know exactly what you are doing (such as enabling additional / replacement tilesets).

    As for the topic you recall, it's prolly: Modifying .sc4 savegames: It IS possible! by @smf_16. There are several specific things you can do using his program, but fixing phantom auras, phantom sliders, of phantom costs aren't currently user level accessible tho he has fixed some specific problems for a given city with special coding.

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

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    1 hour ago, CorinaMarie said:

    It is absolutely better to remove any plop of any lot which has either Park Aura or Landmark Effect if you are altering the values.

    The more you know...

    I mean, of course I knew about it but when I have 60 park items plopped throughout a city (some tucked away in places I can't even find anymore) it's almost impossible to do it. :uhm:

    Do you think this can do some serious damage to my cities? I mean, I saved several times after I modded all these parks, but can't see anything bad going on.


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    1 minute ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    (some tucked away in places I can't even find anymore)

    Are they invisible (like no textures or props)? Or just that they blend in so well it's hard to find them?

    You could temporarily toss in my: DataView - Show Non-RCI Only as Mayor Rating - v1.1.dat mod. That'll highlight things in green. *;)

     

    4 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Do you think this can do some serious damage to my cities?

    If it's only the phantom costs, then no, I don't foresee any trouble at all. (And said phantom costs can be fixed as I outlined before.) Now, OTOH, if you have modded the Park Aura or the Landmark Effect then as long as you don't bulldoze them, they too prolly won't cause any trouble.

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

    Are you new here? Check out the Introduction and Guide to Simtropolis.

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    29 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

    Are they invisible (like no textures or props)? Or just that they blend in so well it's hard to find them?

    No, no, they are visible and all is fine. I just meant they are hidden somewhere between skyscrapers. *;)

    Ok but back to mayoral business! I need a consultation. Perhaps @Naomi57 has an opinion on the issue  as well. *;)

    I have a problematic R$ apartment block in one of my cities which displays an on-off "no jobs" zot.

    I noticed that these guys only find work in the industrial zone which is aaaaaal the way across the city tile.

    I think this is the reason why this block is constantly in and out of work - the commute is too long and difficult. *:yes:

    My tax income is, likewise, going up and down, so I'd say it adds up to this diagnosis. What do you think?

    I plan to run a tram-in-avenue for them, so they can avoid part of the traffic on their way to work. There is a bus line connecting both points anyway but it seems it's still to cumbersome for them to travel this way.


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    7 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I have a problematic R$ apartment block in one of my cities which displays an on-off "no jobs" zot.

    I noticed that these guys only find work in the industrial zone which is aaaaaal the way across the city tile.

    I think this is the reason why this block is constantly in and out of work - the commute is too long and difficult. *:yes:

    My tax income is, likewise, going up and down, so I'd say it adds up to this diagnosis. What do you think?

    I plan to run a tram-in-avenue for them, so they can avoid part of the traffic on their way to work. There is a bus line connecting both points anyway but it seems it's still to cumbersome for them to travel this way.

    Sims of all wealth levels absolutely love catching a tram to work.  :wub:
    I haven't got to the bottom of all the reasons why, given other types of mass transit have desirable properties, too.

    Yes, your diagnosis is right, and unemployed sims pay no taxes.  *:read:

    Given your R$ sims' "no job" zot is flicking on and off, replacing bus with tram will probably do the trick.  The other option is to rezone so that R$ is closer to the industrial zone.  R$ sims actually seem to like living right next door to manufacturing, and will tolerate some proximity to dirty industry, too, provided you clean up the water pollution.

    Dual networking tram networks are outrageously OP, but they are also outrageously difficult to work with.  You might want to spend some time playing with Tram-Avenue pieces in your sandbox, before building in your city.  Be sure to post back if you get stuck with anything.  They are finicky to work with, but there's nearly always a good solution.

    Warning:  Tram Avenue diagonal pieces are much fatter than Maxis Avenue diagonals.  :nyah:

    Additional Warning:  You can't zone directly onto any dual networking Tram pieces once they are plopped.  To rezone, you have to destroy the Tram pieces, plonk OWR-2 (or AVE-4, or Pedmalls) in it's place, zone to face the OWR-2, then destroy the OWR-2, then put the Tram pieces back again.  :rage:

    Final Warning:  There's no fire hydrants on the dual network tram pieces.  If you call a fire crew to a tram piece, they will throw a tantrum rather than put out the fire.  Fortunately, the Fire Dispatch tool allows you to point directly at a nearby street or highway, so you get to choose where the fire crew parks the fire engine.

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    Word of advice: it is actually possible to zone directly on dual networking tram pieces after plopping, if you hold down the Control key when you zone. Although, this will require you to zone each parcel one at a time.

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    @TheMurderousCricket, here's a snapshot of my latest Tram Avenue, in my Lindenwood small city tile, in East New York.  Here's the features in order from top to bottom:

    • Highway bus stop with subway.
    • 2x3 Subway to Tram-Avenue transition, transit lot.
    • Tram-Avenue with side streets primarily for pedestrian access and street-facing zoning.
    • 2x2 Tram-Avenue station, transit lot, diagonally adjacent to Passenger Ferry.
    • Tram-Avenue x Tram-in-Road intersection.
    • Tram-Avenue x OWR-2 intersections to link up the highway.
    • Tram-Avenue x Tram-in-Road intersection.
    • Tram-Avenue diagonal
    • Note that the Neighbour Connections connects the avenue, but not the tram.  Passengers have to swap to bus to journey across the Neighbour Connection.
    • Tram-Avenue x Tram-on-Street intersection, to collect commuters from high density R$ towers.
    • Lastly, 2x2 Tram-Avenue station diagonally adjacent two 1x1 viaduct rail overhanging station plops.

    It's a tight layout, for which I needed the NAM Disconnector tool on several occasions.

    This stretch of Tram-Avenue provides customers for the commerial lots, as well as connectivity between highway bus, passenger ferry, and heavy rail.  All tram stations have a built-in bus stop as well, which is rather convenient.

    618f2308869e7_Lindenwood-Tram-Avenue.jpg.e8c884d7f56195dc2916b26e12ca7388.jpg

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    4 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

    here's a snapshot of my latest Tram Avenue, in my Lindenwood small city tile, in East New York.

    Damn, this looks marvelous! :O I think I don't even know how some of the pieces work! I have a lot to discover yet. The cross-connections you make between tram and overhanging, tram and highway, tram and and... wow!

    4 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

    I needed the NAM Disconnector tool on several occasions.

    Don't even know what that is or when to use it.

    Ok, another question would be - how well do Sims tackle tram-street crossings?

    In the city we discuss, I have a very successful east-west line but some of the Simtizens prefer to drive their cars to the reach the exact same spot which is served by the tram line. My first thought is that while the tram connection is attractive, it might be discouraging for some to wait for the tram to get through four street crossings before really picking up speed. What do you think about it?

    Currently it's kind of 50/50, whereas half of the commuters choose their cars and the rest GLR.

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Damn, this looks marvelous! :O I think I don't even know how some of the pieces work! I have a lot to discover yet. The cross-connections you make between tram and overhanging, tram and highway, tram and and... wow!

    Thank you!  I do enjoy making interesting networks, as well as the puzzles of solving tight spaces.

    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:
    5 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

    I needed the NAM Disconnector tool on several occasions.

    Don't even know what that is or when to use it.

    If you haven't seen this MGB NAM video yet, this is perhaps the best video to see the explosive power of the Bulldozer, as well as the gentle snip of the Disconnector.

    The Bulldozer impacts adjacent network pieces, sometimes explosively, whereas the Disconnector doesn't.disturb the adjacent pieces of network at all.  Working with trams (GLR) and dual networking, it's essential to learn the times to use the Bulldozer, and the times to use the Disconnector.  The whole video is an eyeopener, though it's not actually about trams, but it demonstrates these features well.

     

    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Ok, another question would be - how well do Sims tackle tram-street crossings?

    Cars, pedestrians, trucks and trams all intermingle happily.  No accidents, though looking at the automata, I'm rather sure there should be accidents!  *:lol:

    1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    In the city we discuss, I have a very successful east-west line but some of the Simtizens prefer to drive their cars to the reach the exact same spot which is served by the tram line. My first thought is that while the tram connection is attractive, it might be discouraging for some to wait for the tram to get through four street crossings before really picking up speed. What do you think about it?

    Yes, some sims simply prefer to drive.

    With a tram line in place, more sims will catch the tram than would have caught the bus, and attractive mass transit is a BIG issue for R$ sims.

    By comparison to the real world, you can think of the trams having right of way on intersections, making them faster and smoother than buses, and will run fast even if the avenue is congested with car traffic.

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    On 13/11/2021 at 1:41 AM, Naomi57 said:

    Warning:  Tram Avenue diagonal pieces are much fatter than Maxis Avenue diagonals.  :nyah:

    All capacities for networks are on a per-tile basis, this is pretty much hardcoded in the .exe, by design for dual-tile networks like Highways and Avenue, the diagonal sections use "Shared Tile" setups. This limits the capacity of the shared-tile medians especially, where all 4 lanes of traffic has only 50% of the normal capacity. To to provide a capacity boost and in the case of TiA I suspect also necessary to get a better scaled set of textures, the diagonal sections were made wider, to avoid shared-tiles.

    On 13/11/2021 at 1:41 AM, Naomi57 said:

    Additional Warning:  You can't zone directly onto any dual networking Tram pieces once they are plopped.  To rezone, you have to destroy the Tram pieces, plonk OWR-2 (or AVE-4, or Pedmalls) in it's place, zone to face the OWR-2, then destroy the OWR-2, then put the Tram pieces back again.  :rage:

    Notwithstanding the excellent advice by youngwii, one better solution is to make use of the FLEX TiA pieces, you can drag a regular section of straight Ave. At this point make all your zoning as usual, once you've done that you can select the El-Rail tool and click once on each tile of Avenue to convert it to TiA. Note there is limited support for anything other than basic straight, 90° curves and simple intersections. The later is achieved by dragging away from the TiA with Road, Street, OWR, MiS etc, to create the relevant junction. Leave 2x2 (or other suitably) sized gaps where you plan to add stations and likewise leave gaps to plop any Puzzle Pieces, for example TiAxAve T and + intersections, needed along the route. As always, planning things helps to ensure you only need build them once, but if you take a more ad-hoc approach, it will increase the chances you'll need to demolish and rebuild.

    On 13/11/2021 at 8:25 AM, TheMurderousCricket said:

    Currently it's kind of 50/50, whereas half of the commuters choose their cars and the rest GLR.

    That seems about right, due to the way the game works, there are settings in the traffic simulator that determine what preference for Cars/Mass Transit each wealth of sims have. The default values are shown here:

    TSCT_Defaults.jpg.678964d4b87d2384342cdc71c87f1851.jpg

    As you can see, there is a 50/50 split for R$ sims to use their car vs Mass Transit, this is the highest transit use case too of all wealths. They won't even factor in which is faster, with the exception of the 10% of R$$ and R$$$ sims who factor this into their decision.

    This is mostly a result of the way Maxis built the game around typical American cities, where there is usually very high car usage. Whereas in much of Europe, Mass Transit is used more commonly. The TSCT exists to allow users to easily tune these settings to their preferred type of play, so if the defaults are too car-orientated, you might want to try the High (European) setting:

    TSCT_High(EU).jpg.d727b34133f3fa8349736b904e80b075.jpg

    You can also completely customise these settings however you like, if none of the preset options work for you. There are other settings here too that can drastically alter things like Highway Bus Lanes, Park & Ride and Buses Contribute to Traffic. Read the User Guide, found in the Help menu, before altering such things as you may need to change the way you build/play to use them successfully.

    On 13/11/2021 at 3:45 AM, Naomi57 said:

    This stretch of Tram-Avenue

    It looks like you've a TiA neighbour connection on the left edge of the screenshot, unless you know a trick I don't, I was under the impression dual-networking could not function through a neighbour connection. You can have both GLR and Avenue neighbour connections, you just need to split them Tram and Road somehow for the connection.

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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    6 hours ago, rsc204 said:

    As you can see, there is a 50/50 split for R$ sims to use their car vs Mass Transit, this is the highest transit use case too of all wealths. They won't even factor in which is faster, with the exception of the 10% of R$$ and R$$$ sims who factor this into their decision.

    This is mostly a result of the way Maxis built the game around typical American cities, where there is usually very high car usage. Whereas in much of Europe, Mass Transit is used more commonly. The TSCT exists to allow users to easily tune these settings to their preferred type of play, so if the defaults are too car-orientated, you might want to try the High (European) setting:

    Wow, thanks for that @rsc204. I didn't know one could edit Sims' transportation preferences that way, neither did I know that "fastest" is also one of the criteria in public transport, aside of being the "holy grail" of NAM*;)

    The default preferences do seem quite American, no doubt. I always wondered why it is hard to convince some Sims to use public transport. Now I know! I think I'd be happier with a configuration that is in-between American and European ways.

    But since we are here...

    I don't remember who told me that (was it you or Naomi?) but I recall that there is some strange bug in TSCT, which allows you to save the changes on the first time, but bugs out / borks on any other attempt. Sounds weird to be honest... Could you comment on that?


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    23 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    I recall that there is some strange bug in TSCT, which allows you to save the changes on the first time, but bugs out / borks on any other attempt.

    Yep. Ofc, it depends on your OS (and prolly other security settings). Here's a post I wrote: TSCT Won't Save Settings - Workaround

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

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    Thanks Cori, very clever idea. I'll check it out!

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    @CorinaMarie and what about the "NetworkAddonMod_Volume_Data_View_Z_High"? Should I delete it as well?

    I understand this is the map display for the traffic simulator. Not sure what to do about it?


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    4 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

    "NetworkAddonMod_Volume_Data_View_Z_High"? Should I delete it as well?

    Hmmm. I believe it only gets changed and updated if you change the network capacities. I would try leaving it alone and only worry about it if the TSCT gives an error when saving. Ofc, when deleting files they should go into the Recycle Bin which would let you recover them if something goes screwy. With that in mind, you could delete it too and see if it gets recreated.

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    Chance favors the prepared mind. ― Louis Pasteur  
    Remember, a few hours of trial and error can save you several minutes of looking at the README. -- I Am Devloper (on Twitter)

    Clickable ---> The Best of Cori's Posts  (scroll down a wee bit there)    Something fun: MySimtropolis - Invitation to become a SimCity 4 MySim

    Are you new here? Check out the Introduction and Guide to Simtropolis.

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    "File successfully written". *:yes:

    The map data file was not recreated. I think it was assigned to the "high" preset to accurately represent the volume information for increased network capacities.

    I have increased the transit probabilities for all residents. I also introduced a small tax on freight trucks - for the noise and road damage they cause. *:thumb:

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    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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    Somewhat ashamed I am still unsure about it... *:blush:

    Let's say that I zone residential tract which is 3x3 total but gets divided into two lots. One 2x3 and one 1x3.

    Can that arrangement eventually develop a 3x3 building (rejoin) or do I have to specifically dezone and ctrl-force a 3x3 lot?


    The "SimCity 4" vanilla Opera House is the most evil thing in existence. Avoid.

     

    My city journals! *:read:
    - SimCity: Tribalism - seven urbanization concepts clashed together
    Saving Magnasanti... - the most depressing city in history being revitalized

    Also worth checking...
    - "TMC's Drawing Board" - my city designs and plans.
     

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