Lot - Resources / Help

[rsc204 21,817]

25 minutes ago, 11241036 said:

What's with this T21 editor, if I'm right about this? Never seen it before. Is this available for download somewhere?

Sadly no, it's an unreleased tool I was lucky enough to get access too.

[bch0899 1,203]

Help please. I made a bat and then some lots for it. I'm having a hard time to get it to grow. So then I used the plop any building cheat to at least see how it looks in the game. I was able to plop one of the lots, but the other ones I can see them in the list, but it won't let me plop them.

 

[twalsh102 1,601]

OK, I'm assuming we're talking about your 1556 W 10th Ave download. If this is the case, I found several issues with the .zip file you uploaded (I downloaded it to test). Some or all of this may be the cause of what you are experiencing.

1.  Out of five Lot Exemplars, only one (BCH0899_R$$_1556_W10thAve_Stucco_cc2ea87b.SC4Lot) has any data in it. The others are all empty.

2.  There are four Building Exemplars, but only one Model (.SC4Model) file (IID 0x14000000). The one Lot Exemplar that actually has data refers to a Building Exemplar (IID 0x6C2E3CB0) for which there is no included model (IID 0x00130000). The other three Building Exemplars likewise refer to Models which are not included. The Building Exemplar IIDs would still show in the list, but without any models, they obviously couldn't be plopped. Just as obvious, they couldn't be plopped if the Lot Exemplar that were supposed to refer to them, had no data.

[twalsh102 1,601]

Reference having a problem getting them to grow: 

All Lots are set as Growth Stage 5 and only to grow in Medium and High Density zones. So unless those conditions exist, these Lots won't grow.You might consider lowering the Growth Stage, and/or adding Low Density to the Zones they will grow in.

[rsc204 21,817]

On 7/31/2020 at 11:56 AM, twalsh102 said:

All Lots are set as Growth Stage 5 and only to grow in Medium and High Density zones. So unless those conditions exist, these Lots won't grow.You might consider lowering the Growth Stage, and/or adding Low Density to the Zones they will grow in.

I would state, that this is totally in-line with similar Maxis buildings. But yes, trying to test growables in a fairly new or undeveloped region is going to be a nightmare, because you simply won't have the demand to make it happen.

Every lotter ideally needs a good test region, one where stage 8 buildings already exist. Then you need to try and create the conditions so your Lots will be in demand. But due to how SC4 works, you are likely to find your lots still competing with the Maxis ones. A unique zoning footprint however, will always grow more easily, since provided the other demands are in place (Growth Stage, Wealth, Occupants), they will not have any competition. I'd expand them to 1x4 in size temporarily, use a copy of the lot, not the original for this. If they grow fine, you can have confidence the 1x3 original is correctly modded. Of course you can't always easily do this, which is why using it in a city with high-demand for everything makes this task a lot easier.

[Dead_End 1,621]

With the Lot Editor I changed some details on a custom plopable monument and saved it. After changing some more details I again saved it. This time as a separate new file.
Both files do not show up in the list of monuments. Even weirder, the files are visible through the buildingplop cheat, but can't be accessed. I hope someone can figure out what I'm doing wrong here. I've previously used the same method with other files without any issues.

 

 

[twalsh102 1,601]

Can you post your Lot and Building Exemplars here, as well as telling us the IID of the model you used? It will save a lot of questions.

[Dead_End 1,621]

Here's the lot I'm trying to edit:

My idea was to create two versions from the standard 2x2 version. One where the parking textures match the one I use and one 1x2 with the parking removed altogether.

One thing that might have been causing an issue is that I previously copied the new files to the lot's folder in my plugins, thereby overwriting the original file. I have since tested it without doing so (leaving the new files in the main plugins folder and the old unedited files in the lot's folder). With this setup I can plop both files, although the 2x2 version still used the original parking textures. Found this a bit strange since I figured the new 2x2 version would load after the original version.

I barely know my way around the various tools for SC4, so I'm not familiar with the IID or how I would find it. I did copy all files to a temporary plugins folder and opened it with SC4 PIM Extended (see attached screenshots), which should give you the exemplars, right?

[twalsh102 1,601]

These are your building Exemplars, and don't see anything obviously wrong with the exemplars them selves. In fact, both exemplars appear identical other than the Lot Exemplar IIDs, and the IID of the Item Icons. Can you please post your actual Lot Exemplar files(.SC4Lot) as these include both your Building and Lot Exemplars? I would like test on my PC to rule out that there isn't something weird going on in your yours. What parking textures are you using?

One possible issue I do see based on your second post: if your new files  are at the root of your Plugins folder, they load first before any other files not at the root of your Plugins folder. Having said that, that is only an issue if you have multiple exemplars with the same IIDs.

I already downloaded the original lot and found that there were problems with that download. While the download description describes both growable and ploppable versions of the lot, there is no Lot Exemplar included for a growable lot. There are also Texture dependencies missing.

[Dead_End 1,621]

Really appreciate the help! I'm using KOSC's SuperSHK with rsc204's TGN/SWN mod applied. I don't think that should be a factor in this at all since I only used the base texture 0x258c2000, which IIRC is part of standard Maxis textures.

Edited Mos Burger.zip

[twalsh102 1,601]

OK, we're making progress.

The screenshot below shows the both your lots (plopped from the menu), as well as the open Landmarks menu with the icons for both of your lots.

For the 2x2 lot:

1.  It has the exact same IID as the Lot Exemplar in the original download.  Therefore, with your new files at the root of the Plugins folder, and the original files still existing in your Plugins\Lots folder, the original files are loaded last, and thus are the ones used by the game. That is why the original parking lot textures show up.

2.  Removing the original Lot and building exemplars from within the Plugins folder (obviously leaving the .SC4Model file), the screen shot shows the results. The 2x2 lot shows no Parking textures at all. When checked with SC4DataNode, there is no reference in the Lot Exemplar to KOSC_SuperSHK_MEGATexturePack, even though it is included in my Plugins folder. DataNode does list a missing Texture dependency (the concrete texture) if BSC Textures Vol 01.dat is not included in Plugins

[Dead_End 1,621]

8 hours ago, twalsh102 said:

1.  It has the exact same IID as the Lot Exemplar in the original download.  Therefore, with your new files at the root of the Plugins folder, and the original files still existing in your Plugins\Lots folder, the original files are loaded last, and thus are the ones used by the game. That is why the original parking lot textures show up.

Must have gotten these mixed up. I thought files at the root of the Plugins folder would load last instead of first.

8 hours ago, twalsh102 said:

2.  Removing the original Lot and building exemplars from within the Plugins folder (obviously leaving the .SC4Model file), the screen shot shows the results. The 2x2 lot shows no Parking textures at all. When checked with SC4DataNode, there is no reference in the Lot Exemplar to KOSC_SuperSHK_MEGATexturePack, even though it is included in my Plugins folder. DataNode does list a missing Texture dependency (the concrete texture) if BSC Textures Vol 01.dat is not included in Plugins

Just to be clear: by removing the building exemplars, do you mean the SC4lot file or the SC4desc file?

[twalsh102 1,601]

The contents of the original download included 4 files: An .SC4Model file (which is obviously necessary for your lots), an .SC4Lot file (which included both the Lot Exemplar and the File Exemplar for the original plopped lot), and 2 .SC4Desc files (one of which was redundant for the plopped building and was not referenced by the Lot Exemplar, and one for the growable version of the Lot, but for which no Lot Exemplar was included). I removed everything from the original download except for the the .SC4Model file.

Just for the record, Load order for your Plugins folder is as follows (always alphabetically according to folder and file name):  all non-.dat files at the root of the Plugins directory, all non-.dat files serially through your Plugins folder, all .dat files at the root of your Plugins folder, and all .dat files serially through your Plugins folder. So the game essentially goes through your Plugins folder twice. One word of caution:  Many of us include  the underscore (_) at the start of certain folder / file names because we want them to show up first in order in Windows File Explorer. However, Sc4 considers the underscore at the beginning of a file name last after all letters and numbers. Special NOTE: While the game peruses ALL files included in your Plugins files, the only file types recognized as game files (and thus actually loaded) are .SC4Lot, .SC4Desc, .SC4Model, .dat, and .dll. Thus all other file types should be removed from your Plugins folder so as not to prolong load times.

If you wished to keep the original files for some reason, you would have to give new IIDs to the the two Exemplars in your .SC4Lot file for the 2x2.

A great tool to show you  the exact load order of your current SC4 environment is SC4DataNode by @rivit. Another great function of this tool for content creators is that it will show you exactly what dependencies are in use so you can create a correct Dependencies List, as well as identifying any dependencies that you weren't aware you were using.

[Gwyain 95]

Hi all, if there is an existing model that I'd like to use for a lot, but that isn't sized how I want it is there any way to change the scale of it? Say the existing model is 2x3 and I want to scale it up to 3x6, can I do that or am I out of luck and need to make my own model in GMAX?

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

1 hour ago, Gwyain said:

Hi all, if there is an existing model that I'd like to use for a lot, but that isn't sized how I want it is there any way to change the scale of it? Say the existing model is 2x3 and I want to scale it up to 3x6, can I do that or am I out of luck and need to make my own model in GMAX?

Hiya @Gwyain, I thought you could use @cogeo's Tweaker to rescale the Lot's model (Not a True3d model), 

Here is a tutorial by @BartonThinks:

If you consider releasing, You'd better take a look at this post below:

After rescaling the size of model, sometimes you may need to tweak the Occupant size which is in Building's Exemplar file as well, and then "replace building" with its building again in LotEditor. Make sure you have backup the Lot you plan to rescale before all steps above, I hope it helps.

Sincerely,

-- Raymond

[Gwyain 95]

Thank you @Raymond7cn, that's exactly what I was looking for!

[Tomato660 25]

Hello. How can I edit a DAT-file? I downloaded this (https://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/22995-peg-ski-resort/) beautiful plugin, but I need to make a snowy basic texture for all details (my region has low mountains and low snow-level for columbus terrain mod, so I make snow locations from lots). I changed the texture in the LotEditor, but it doesn't work, as DAT-file is not changed

 

[CorinaMarie 29,621]

There is a program called Reader, but first try this:

Rename the file you made with lot editor to load alphabetically after the original file and simply change its extension to .dat

The game doesn't actually care what the extensions are, but it does load .dat after other ones. By making yours have a .dat extension (and alphabetically load after like by prefixing with the letter z) that should make it override.

Reader does have a bit of a steep learning curve so if you use it, here's a guide to help.

[Tomato660 25]

56 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Rename the file you made with lot editor to load alphabetically after the original file and simply change its extension to .dat

Wow it works! Thank you! 

[ohdude 2,353]

Hi everybody!

I'm working with LotEditor and in the Family props list there are some that i don't want to appear. Can anybody explain me how can i remove these family props using PIM-X or iLive Reader or an easier way to make it possible??

Thanks in a very lot!

Ohdude

[ohdude 2,353]

I found one way to remove a prop family. Is easy using iLive Reader.

You just have to select de building/prop family value, double click, select the value of the prop family you want to remove and click remove, click on Apply.

and finally...this important to take effect in the game and LotEditor and PIM-X:

DON'T FORGET TO RIGHT CLICK THE WITH AREA OF THE RIGHT PANEL WHERE IS THE BUILDING/PROP FAMILY VALUES and click on Reindex LotConfig

 

  Edited December 23, 2020 by ohdude  

[rsc204 21,817]

15 minutes ago, ohdude said:

and finally...this important to take effect in the game and LotEditor and PIM-X:

DON'T FORGET TO RIGHT CLICK THE WITH AREA OF THE RIGHT PANEL WHERE IS THE BUILDING/PROP FAMILY VALUES and click on Reindex LotConfig

No, it would work regardless, since you aren't editing a LotConfiguration Exemplar (Lot), clicking this option does nothing.

[ohdude 2,353]

Well, what i was doing was deleting the building/prop family value and inmediately saving the file. Opening the LotEditor the family prop number still was there and that is what i didn't want to happen. my mistake was that i forgot to click on Reindex Lotconfig before saving the file in iLive Reader.

[rsc204 21,817]

22 minutes ago, ohdude said:

Well, what i was doing was deleting the building/prop family value and inmediately saving the file. Opening the LotEditor the family prop number still was there and that is what i didn't want to happen. my mistake was that i forgot to click on Reindex Lotconfig before saving the file in iLive Reader.

I'm sorry but no, that doesn't make any sense. Do you actually know what a LotConfig is or what re-indexing it does?

If you edit a Prop or Buildings Exemplar, to remove a Prop or Buildings family, then that particular Prop or Building, will no longer appear in the family. But, the actual lot itself will still link to the Prop/Building family, unless you change the Prop or Buildings used on a lot.

Nothing you have described would completely suppress the entire Prop Family, which it seems is your goal. To do that, find the Prop Family on a lot in Lot Editor, then delete it. Note, these props appear as regular Props on a lot, the ID of the Prop, being the Prop Family ID. Most Maxis Props that are used in a family, can be used without the family also. Rather than adding the Prop Family Prop, just find the regular Prop instead and use that.

[ohdude 2,353]

 

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

Nothing you have described would completely suppress the entire Prop Family, which it seems is your goal. To do that, find the Prop Family on a lot in Lot Editor, then delete it.

Ok, but i just can delete it with iLive Reader and that part is what i'm wrong according your recommendation I guess. I don't want to delete the prop. I just want to delete a prop family number assigned to a group of props.

[rsc204 21,817]

But why do you need to remove the Prop Families? Doing that only removes the edited Prop from the family you are deleting.

The lot (or lots) that use these Prop Families, will still have the Prop Families upon them. Even if you removed every instance of the Prop Family from every Prop in it, this will still be true.

Perhaps the best question is really, what exactly are you trying to achieve? In other words, in what way are you trying to alter the Lots using these Families?

[ohdude 2,353]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

But why do you need to remove the Prop Families? Doing that only removes the edited Prop from the family you are deleting.

The lot (or lots) that use these Prop Families, will still have the Prop Families upon them. Even if you removed every instance of the Prop Family from every Prop in it, this will still be true.

Perhaps the best question is really, what exactly are you trying to achieve? In other words, in what way are you trying to alter the Lots using these Families?

The main reason is to reduce the list of family props and props that i use for making lots with LotEditor. At the end my objective is having a reduced and ordered plugins folder with as much realistic content as posible. Now im editing the @IDS2 Minneapolis House Set. I like the models but not the lots so im remaking the lots in order to have one lot per prop family because in the original folder IDS2 made 12 props families of which 4 mixes the models that doesn´t fit well with the lots i want to do. So for that reason i wanted to remove only the props families i don't like...and even the props which comes with many dependency packs that i don't use. At the end is a considerable amount of space you can win for installing new and realistic BAT's, or to speed up the loading of the game.

Sorry for my english if is not correct, im native spanish speaker.

With your explanation i'm understanding much better how the props family works. I've read the Jeronij Tutorial for making props families. For a moment I commited a mistake I still don't understand what i've done wrong and I though that maybe Reindex LotConfig could solve the problem. after doing this the props appeared how i wanted. Luckily you made me understand that i don't have to do Reindex lotconfig. I've tried to do everything again without Reindex LotConfig and i got the result i wanted to have.

Maybe the title of the topic is not the appropiate, i can change it in order to be useful for anybody who has similar problem. Any idea?

Thank you very much @rsc204

 

[nickvon 161]

My goal at the moment is to edit lots for my own personal use. Perhaps someday I may be able to get to a point where I can create BATS, but I'm trying to take one step at a time.

I play SC4 on a Mac, through OSX. I unfortunately cannot run any sort of bootcamp or partitioned drive on my machine to operate windows on. At the moment I am eyeing a used $50 USD 2 year old notebook that has windows on it. Now, before I do something rash like spend money and time working towards an imaginary outcome, I thought I'd double-check with some of the pros here before I embark on this journey, in order to see if what I'm attempting to do is actually realistic/possible.

I would like to edit custom content to better fit my desired playing style. The things that I wish to edit at the moment are occupancy numbers, zoning, growth stages. There's larger things at play here as well which is a desire to better understand growables. Like how exactly does one group of housing BATS consistently get generated at a rate of 9 to 1 comparatively with another group of housing BATs even when they both are existing with the same amount/numbering of growth stages. I think my goal is to have much more control over what gets grown in my region and how often, if that makes sense.

First of all, is this even really allowed? I did not create this content, how does this community generally view altering someones work like that? Obviously it would only be for personal use.

Second, is it USUALLY the case where ANY sort of custom content can be altered? Like for instance if I downloaded a housing pack and the download is just a single .dat file. Do you unpack it and go to town? Or does there exist res/com/ind downloads that are unable to be altered on a technical level.

Third, can I alter these files through a lot editor on a machine running windows, without having SC4 on that machine, and then shoot them over to my mac and run them? Like is there any reason that this would not work due to two different OS', tech obstacles etc...

Thank you of course in advance for your time.

[CorinaMarie 29,621]

7 minutes ago, nickvon said:

At the moment I am eyeing a used $50 USD 2 year old notebook that has windows on it.

This will likely be fine, but it wouldn't hurt to post the specs so the experts can scrutinize what you'd be getting.

 

9 minutes ago, nickvon said:

First of all, is this even really allowed?  I did not create this content, how does this community generally view altering someones work like that?  Obviously  it would only be for personal use.  

Being for your own use, you can do anything at all with any of the content you download for the game. It's when wanting to share any modifications that some rules kick in.

 

10 minutes ago, nickvon said:

Or does there exist res/com/ind downloads that are unable to be altered on a technical level.

With the various editing tools freely available almost everything can be edited. The caveats being the S3D models won't have the source files so the best you can do there is use a Tweaker program to resize them and image editing software to change details of the FSH images. This latter part being extremely tedious to do as there will be 20 separate images to edit (five for each zoom and four rotations).

Ofc, for the tweaking you've mentioned like " occupancy numbers, zoning, growth stages. " then those can be done with the easier to use tools.

 

14 minutes ago, nickvon said:

Third, can I alter these files through a lot editor on a machine running windows, without having SC4 on that machine, and then shoot them over to my mac and run them?

Yep. That'll be fine for the tools for editing the properties like occupancy, zoning, etc. It's possible that the Lot Editor or PIM-X might need the game installed, but I'm unsure on that.

For the more techy questions, I'll leave those for the experts.

Btw, I moved your thread to this forum since it's where said experts hang out.

[AP 3,588]

Hi Everyone,

I am very close to finishing my first few lots for sc4. However, I have a few questions that the more experienced people here might be able to answer so my stuff is a little more desirable.

1.     Missing shadows
As you can see my self made props have no shadows unlike the other items in this lot. I am assuming that is a rendering thing? I used gmax to create this content.
Is there a way to get shadows using gmax?

2.     Difficult railway overlay textures in lot
In some zoom lvls/ rotation orientations the railway tracks seem to disappear and reappear. Any advice? I used LotEditor
Is there a way to make the forklifts appearing at random times?

 

3.     Custom Query Window
I used lots from the Heretic Seaport Project to start with my content and of course I am trying to implement my own custom query window and connect to my lot with the reader. That does not work unfortunately. I guess I am missing something. Any advice is appreciated.

Query Window file:

 

Lot File:

If there is ay other info needed, just let me know.

Thanks to everyone who can help!