st challenges Simtropolis Challenges Season 3 - General Discussion

[Hamish 1,370]

The Return

We are pleased to announce the return of Simtropolis Challenges.
Season 3 will launch on June 13th with a series of brand new challenges!

Based upon feedback and suggestions from the community, including the Ideas Bank, we have organised a set of new, and some old challenges, along with a new seasonal leaderboard!

Each week a new challenge will become available, and follow the same submission process as last season by challengers submitting images to an album and then in the following week the voting becomes available to all.

Voting will again work by rating submissions inside each Challenge Album.

In a slight change to this season, weekly challenges might run for multiple weeks, this is to encourage more entries for difficult challenges. Depending on the challenge, more than one submission per author may be allowed (like with the NAM Showcase).

Monthly challenges will be returning too, except with a big change for this season. There will be a new challenge starting on the 1st and 15th of every month, and will run for 30 days. The general theme around these challenges is custom content creation, ranging from creating custom lots for Maxis buildings, to creating completely new buildings (BATs).

While there is an overlap between two monthly challenges, no two challenge will ask you to do a similar thing at the same time, for instance there won't be two BAT challenges running at the same time. These entries will be featured on the STEX for the voting process, and will be prominently featured here while the voting is being conducted. Its a great opportunity for you to finish up those old BATs or LOTs you've had in the depths of your hard drive for years!

The entire schedule of challenges will be available from day one, so you can get entries ready before the challenge even launches, check the calendar below for this schedule.

Not all challenges are currently in the calendar yet, but this will be completed in due course. Make sure you subscribe to this calendar to always be notified and up to date with the upcoming challenges:

Challenges Calendar

 

Prizes

Winners, like last season, will be earning a varied amount of reputation. We also hope to eventually have a more permanent showcase of your wins on your profile, but this might not be ready for the beginning of the season. Second and Third place will also be receiving reputation for each challenge. The amount of reputation, like last season, will grow as the number of entries grow. So the more entries, the bigger the prize pool.

This season for selected challenges, the reputation band will be increased to the top 5.

As a method of determining results, the BARS ranking system will be returning.
 

New Leaderboard System

A brand new leaderboard system will be unveiled this season. This will arrange contestants based upon a variety of different categories, for instance any podium places you make, the amount of reputation you earn from challenges, the average rating of your entries, amongst others, so you have a chance to place on the leaderboard even without winning a challenge, but you have a higher chance if you do.

This will be explained in more detail shortly in a separate topic.
 

Hall Of Fame

The Hall Of Fame will also be making a return. It never really left, but all winning images will be featured within there once more.

Joining the image Hall Of Fame will also be a STEX Hall Of Fame. This will feature the winning files from the custom content monthly challenges. All entries to the Hall Of Fame will be included in a recap at the end of the season.

Speaking of which, in the next few days a topic featuring all new entries into the Hall Of Fame from last season will be featured in this forum before the launch of Season 3, along with a recap. Hopefully this will give you all some inspiration for what you might want to create this Season.
 

Best Picture Competition

The Best Picture Competition is still running. Its had a reduction in the amount of interest and participation lately, and we'd love to hear how you would make it better. Use this topic to discuss those changes. Otherwise, it's business as usual in that competition. We hope that renewed interest in the challenges will bring new attention to the Best Picture Competition.

 

Notifications

Don't forget to follow this post to stay up to date with any other announcements for Season 3. And make sure you follow the challenges forum so you know when each challenge goes live. Also, subscribe to the calendar so you know what challenges are coming next!

 

The first challenge, if you haven't looked at the calendar yet, is a Vanilla Only Challenge, where we only want to see images from SimCity 4 without any mods or alterations. It will be tough, but we can't wait to see what you can do!

We are really excited to bring you the return of Simtropolis Challenges, and we hope you have a fun Season 3!

Also, we invite you to use this topic for discussing any subjects relating to this season.

~ The Challenges Team

 

[Thin White Duke 4,072]

Welp. This one's for @CorinaMarie

[Hamish 1,370]

She does amazing work with vanilla! Maybe it's worth looking at for inspiration? 

[antsel 842]

Hey all, it looks like the Best Picture Competition needs some love. To be perfectly honest I didn't realise it existed, I don't really spend much time in the social side of the forums. What can we do to gain more traffic? Would we get more people visiting if it was stickied at the top of SC4 City-Building Concepts?
 

  Edited June 8, 2016 by Cyclone Boom  
Added context (posts moved from here).

[CorinaMarie 29,902]

@Thin White Duke and @Hamish

Oh, my! I'm honored by your comments.

 

Tip: Since you won't have that Ugly Yellow Pause Thinger Remover mod, be sure to have your city's time running when you minimize the controls for your image.

[Thin White Duke 4,072]

@CorinaMarieOh, I won't participate in this one. It'd take two hours just to move my plugins folder somewhere, then I'd have to build something to look somewhat respectable, and then move it all back in order to continue building the way I normally do. Maybe next week.

[CorinaMarie 29,902]

1 hour ago, Thin White Duke said:

It'd take two hours just to move my plugins folder somewhere ...

This confuzzles me. I'll just rename mine and it's like nearly instant even on my old XP machine.

[Thin White Duke 4,072]

@CorinaMarieWell, I'm not technical enough to figure out about doing something like that. Thanks for telling me about it! Also, not thanks for telling me about it, because now I don't have any good excuse not to do it. I'm still not doing it tho. This be an protest.

[MushyMushy 3,618]

Yeah I'll skip on this one as well (no personal interest in playing vanilla ever again), but it's very exciting to see the challenges starting again! I can't wait for some of the other challenges, such as the BAT challenges or the other general city-building stuff. And of course whipping out Photoshop will be in order somewhere in there.

[philforhockey51 4,220]

The Games have begun! 

 

 

[matias93 7,535]

22 hours ago, antsel said:

Hey all, it looks like the Best Picture Competition needs some love. To be perfectly honest I didn't realise it existed, I don't really spend much time in the social side of the forums. What can we do to gain more traffic? Would we get more people visiting if it was stickied at the top of SC4 City-Building Concepts?

The problem is asymmetry, there are true artists of SC4 and there are us, normal players that try to do something nice a couple of times, and don't want to be aesthetically obliterated. Maybe split the competition between categories (pro and amateur) could help to dynamize it.
 

  Edited June 8, 2016 by Cyclone Boom  
Added referring quote (moved post).

[Hamish 1,370]

19 hours ago, matias93 said:

The problem is asymmetry, there are true artists of SC4 and there are us, normal players that try to do something nice a couple of times, and don't want to be aesthetically obliterated. Maybe split the competition between categories (pro and amateur) could help to dynamize it.

I really like that idea, and I'll think it over, but my initial concern is why we might not split this in two.

What makes someone an amateur or a professional? I suppose professional would be self assigned, but what happens when someone who others think is a professional, but they themselves don't, posts in the amateur forum and win outright? It also means that participation, which this competition is struggling with currently, is split.

This idea could work, with some alteration, as we have noticed that people aren't posting because they think their images aren't good enough to beat other members.

I'll propose one idea, which I'd like some feedback on. What if we introduce ranks into this competition? It would work like this; every member begins at Rank 1, you can challenge anyone's images, and you require 2 wins in a row to enter the HOF and reach Rank 2. Rank 2 can also challenge anyone, but requires 3 wins in a row to enter the HOF and reach Rank 3. Rank 3 members can only challenge rank 3 or higher, and require 4 wins in a row to reach the HOF and make Rank 4. Rank 4 can only challenge Rank 4, but require only 4 wins in a row to reach the HOF, a rank 4 member can vote twice in the same round.  In this way lower skilled members won't always be facing higher skilled members, unless they want too, so they can't be 'ambushed' by a high level member. A Rank 1 member could upset a rank 4 member, but then can only be challenged by members of their own rank. A bit more to remember when posting an entry, but I think that makes it a bit more interesting too. Shouldn't be too hard for higher level members to post entries either, they just need to wait 2, maybe 3 rounds to submit an entry.

What do people think? This is just an idea, so I'd like to hear some feedback on what you think, and if a system like this might fix some of the issues people have trying to get into this competition?

[TekindusT 3,809]

In my very humble opinion, I'm not that convinced of that. Adding the ranks sounds a good idea, but it also adds a lot more rules and complexity that some candidates interested in playing wouldn't do so because of these limitations. In my mind, one of the points of the competition is being the first to challenge a picture you find is "weak", and doing it before a "better" picture takes your place. 

Splitting the competition as "pro" and "amateur" sounds quite like against the genereral spirit here at ST. In any section of this site, the Michelangelos of SC4 share their space with the guy who got the game from Steam yesterday; and that's what is cool about this site. Both works are at the same level and the only difference among them is the player's experience, the used mods and BATs/assets... it's telling the newer guys "yeah, you can do it too!". On CB's line, I would hate being the mod who had to decide who's an amateur and who's a pro.

Wanted to give my constructive suggestion in the other thread, but seems this one is getting some conversation, so I'll toss it in here: I think pinning this competition atop of the Forums homepage would increase a lot its visibility. This thread is included on the Social Forum normally "buried" below the C:S, SC2013, SC4 Players and SC4 Builders for any average ST member. If the competition appeared at the top, right above the C:S forum, it would be pretty much the first everybody would see when browsing the forums, including many newly bred Simtropolites who came attracted by the C:S discussion and who rarely venture in other parts of the site.

Also, this goes also for the monthly challenge winners, the HOF pics could be featured in the large Homepage slideshow, as any other featured pic. The clickable link would always lead to the competition thread to attract players and attention. 

Just my $0.02, sure that we all together will find cool ideas to revamp the competition. 

[gviper 922]

interesting...verrry interesting.

[philforhockey51 4,220]

I think I mentioned in the other thread a suggestion of turning it into a solo comp, instead of a competition against each other, how about just voting on a single picture of it's worthiness of the Hall. Enough yays(10 or so) and your in too many nays(7 or so) and it goes away. This would keep people from being shy about sharing their work, and keep the competitive levels even. Something simpler as opposed to increasing rules and complexity that may also deter posting. I feel I can find the quality in a work that is photo edited as much as in one from vanilla SC4, but to compare them doesn't quite work.

[CorinaMarie 29,902]

On 6/8/2016 at 10:27 AM, TekindusT said:

I think pinning this competition atop of the Forums homepage would increase a lot its visibility.

I do imagine this would help a wee bit. It'd really depend on where peeps go when they come here each visit. For instance, my Firefox put SimCity 4 Players Forum as my second most used tile when I open a new tab. (And rightly so since that is where I go the most.) I'd only notice it if it were there. Other peeps likely go other places first. I'd guess the Forums Homepage isn't one of them except for newly joined members.

The current Challenge is a good example for me. It's featured on the Main Homepage. I didn't notice that until today. I only knew of the competition starting cause @Thin White Duke did a @CorinaMarie and I got a notification.

 

Edit: What if it were it's own forum so it'd show up on the drop down menu list?

 

[CorinaMarie 29,902]

On 6/7/2016 at 4:18 AM, Hamish said:

Vanilla Only Challenge

Ok. I guess I should ask my dumb questions now.

"1. Must use either SimCity 4, SimCity 4 with Rush Hour expansion, or SimCity 4 Deluxe edition, all of these can be patched to their latest versions."

So, absolutely nothing allowed in the plugins folder? More specifically, no demand alteration mods? But, the original 11 Console Cheats and the God Mode Cheat are allowed?

"4. For the purpose of voting, please check your image has a full title & description."

Title I understand. What is expected for description? Is this a short paragraph telling a story or just what? Could you give an example?

"5. To qualify for entry, please ensure your image is uploaded to the above album ..."

I'm assuming the album to which the entry is to be uploaded will appear once the competition starts. Yes?

Also, are the entries all hidden until the voting starts? Are they shown anonymously during the voting period or with our names attached? And is there a specific screen resolution to run the game? Peeps with better comps would have an advantage. I'm currently planning to use 1792x1344 which is the max my poor little ol' system can handle.

(This'll be my first competition so I'm a bit confuzzled atm.)

 

[TekindusT 3,809]

14 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

I do imagine this would help a wee bit. It'd really depend on where peeps go when they come here each visit. For instance, my Firefox put SimCity 4 Players Forum as my second most used tile when I open a new tab. (And rightly so since that is where I go the most.) I'd only notice it if it were there. Other peeps likely go other places first. I'd guess the Forums Homepage isn't one of them except for newly joined members.

The current Challenge is a good example for me. It's featured on the Main Homepage. I didn't notice that until today. I only knew of the competition starting cause @Thin White Duke did a @CorinaMarie and I got a notification.

Edit: What if it were it's own forum so it'd show up on the drop down menu list?

As you said, it depends on where users go on each visit. I myself have never used that categories drop down, you made me realize it existed. Instead, the Forums Homepage is my go-to place when want to find out what's cooking at ST, and I've been around for a while. I guess it's a behavior inherited from the previous incarnations of the ST software, which were a bit more simple on this aspect.

Sure Dirk or the Admins will have some kind of at-large stats indicating where the users spend the most time and what do they view first. These stats should help to better determine the position and visibility of the links to the contest. 

[Cyclone Boom 17,032]

4 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

So, absolutely nothing allowed in the plugins folder? More specifically, no demand alteration mods? But, the original 11 Console Cheats and the God Mode Cheat are allowed?

Yes, that's the idea.

Basically anything included in the base game can be used, but no plugins.

This applies if you have plain SC4 or the Deluxe / Rush Hour editions (which are both the same).
 

4 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Title I understand. What is expected for description? Is this a short paragraph telling a story or just what? Could you give an example?

This applies to submissions inside the Gallery.

Just to clarify, when uploading your image, there are three text fields:

Caption:
This is the title (will be the file extension by default, so that's why we ask for a proper title).
Something catchy works best, but it should relate somehow to your entry.

Tags:
Like when posting a topic or STEX file, a minimum of 2 tags must be provided, which help to describe the image (e.g. vanilla, sc4).
Each word can be separated by comma.

Description:
It's really up to you what you put here. As eventual voters will see this, think of it as an opportunity to showcase or 'sell' your image. In previous challenges, people have written a single sentence, or indeed even a paragraph giving a background story. The description can help to provide context, which may or may not be obvious for each image.

We're not going to be too strict on these things, so nobody would be disqualified should they not provide them. For example, if someone misses a caption, we'd contact them individually to let them know. Or if time is short before voting, we have previously fixed it up for the person.

The challenge albums from last season have the best examples (scroll down).
 

4 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

I'm assuming the album to which the entry is to be uploaded will appear once the competition starts. Yes?

That's partially correct. An album will be created for each challenge that opens.

At the top of challenge albums, there's a "Submissions" category. This was used for the final challenge last time, because a site upgrade changed aspects of the Gallery's functions. It is likely that this will be used again this season.

If so, what happens is you upload your entry here, and then it'll be approved, and moved into the dedicated album.

We'll clarify this exactly when the challenge starts (inside a new thread).
 

4 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Also, are the entries all hidden until the voting starts? Are they shown anonymously during the voting period or with our names attached?

All entries will be visible, and your username will be shown on the entry (like on STEX files).

We had considered doing it in private, but the feedback was this wasn't necessary at this time.

Voting however is done anonymously, by clicking the star (1-5). You can only vote each entry once, and can't change it once set.
 

4 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

And is there a specific screen resolution to run the game? Peeps with better comps would have an advantage. I'm currently planning to use 1792x1344 which is the max my poor little ol' system can handle.

Submissions can be of any resolution which fits inside the upload limit. This is currently 2MB, but we may increase this to 3MB.

Don't worry, we've had images smaller than your resolution, and have done equally well.

Hope this helps answer your questions, and let us know if you've any others.

[CorinaMarie 29,902]

2 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Hope this helps answer your questions, and let us know if you've any others.

Thanks.

That covered everything except I'm still uncertain if the image appears once approved and prior to the start of voting. Or do the images become available for members to see prior to then? See, I have this silly idea that I have some cool techniques that I want to keep secret until the voting starts. (I might be full of processed hay for how cool said techniques are, however. Still, I plan to keep them secret till then.)

 

Edit:

2 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Voting however is done anonymously, by clicking the star (1-5). You can only vote each entry once, and can't change it once set.

I just thought about this. Seems to me contestants prolly ought not be able to vote cause what keeps a person from voting 5 for their own and 1 for everyone else?

[Cyclone Boom 17,032]

1 hour ago, CorinaMarie said:

Thanks.

That covered everything except I'm still uncertain if the image appears once approved and prior to the start of voting. Or do the images become available for members to see prior to then? See, I have this silly idea that I have some cool techniques that I want to keep secret until the voting starts. (I might be full of processed hay for how cool said techniques are, however. Still, I plan to keep them secret till then.)

Yes, images will be visible to everyone once shown in the challenge album.

No problem. If you (or anyone) would like your image to remain private until voting, we can arrange for it to be hidden. This means it would only be visible to the challenges team. Or you can just wait towards the back end of the submission period.
 

1 hour ago, CorinaMarie said:

I just thought about this. Seems to me contestants prolly ought not be able to vote cause what keeps a person from voting 5 for their own and 1 for everyone else?

There's technically nothing stopping anyone, though for obvious reasons, it's kind of an unwritten rule to not do this. From the rating patterns, there didn't seem cases of fixing last year.

Some people expressed that when participating, they didn't want to rate other entries. It's kind of a personal choice really.

Ideally we would choose to disable self-ratings, but the site software currently doesn't allow this.

[CorinaMarie 29,902]

1 hour ago, Cyclone Boom said:

If you (or anyone) would like your image to remain private until voting, we can arrange for it to be hidden.

Personally, I feel it'd be a good rule to have so all pictures are fresh when voting starts. I'll elect for this option since earlier submission date would win if there's a tie.

1 hour ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Some people did express that when participating, they didn't want to rate other entries. It's kind of a personal choice really.

This seems like the best plan. While I can easily refrain from voting 1's for them, I just couldn't be objective since I'll have a vested interest in my own.

[Cyclone Boom 17,032]

21 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Personally, I feel it'd be a good rule to have so all pictures are fresh when voting starts.

OK, thanks for the input, that could be considered.

Does anyone else have opinions on hiding images until voting?
 

21 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

I'll elect for this option since earlier submission date would win if there's a tie.

In the event of a tied rating, it'd be split using the BARS system (the method of calculating results). For example, an image rated 4.5 (12 votes) would rank above an image rated 4.5 (11 votes).

This doesn't consider the submission date, so there'd be no technical disadvantage if submitting later.

[CorinaMarie 29,902]

1 hour ago, Cyclone Boom said:

This doesn't consider the submission date, so there'd be no technical disadvantage if submitting later.

Ah. I must've read that somewhere else then. Maybe an old system. Anyhow, you answered all my questions.

[_Michael 2,681]

I don't think hiding images until voting would benefit. Pre-seeing the images allow you to make up your mind before hand, decide how you're going to vote, and even critique the images to a finer detail. 

[BLANKBLANK 4,414]

On 08/06/2016 at 3:27 PM, TekindusT said:

In my very humble opinion, I'm not that convinced of that. Adding the ranks sounds a good idea, but it also adds a lot more rules and complexity that some candidates interested in playing wouldn't do so because of these limitations. In my mind, one of the points of the competition is being the first to challenge a picture you find is "weak", and doing it before a "better" picture takes your place. 

Splitting the competition as "pro" and "amateur" sounds quite like against the genereral spirit here at ST. In any section of this site, the Michelangelos of SC4 share their space with the guy who got the game from Steam yesterday; and that's what is cool about this site. Both works are at the same level and the only difference among them is the player's experience, the used mods and BATs/assets... it's telling the newer guys "yeah, you can do it too!". On CB's line, I would hate being the mod who had to decide who's an amateur and who's a pro.

Wanted to give my constructive suggestion in the other thread, but seems this one is getting some conversation, so I'll toss it in here: I think pinning this competition atop of the Forums homepage would increase a lot its visibility. This thread is included on the Social Forum normally "buried" below the C:S, SC2013, SC4 Players and SC4 Builders for any average ST member. If the competition appeared at the top, right above the C:S forum, it would be pretty much the first everybody would see when browsing the forums, including many newly bred Simtropolites who came attracted by the C:S discussion and who rarely venture in other parts of the site.

Also, this goes also for the monthly challenge winners, the HOF pics could be featured in the large Homepage slideshow, as any other featured pic. The clickable link would always lead to the competition thread to attract players and attention.

Definitely agree with posting the challenges section above the C:S, SC2013 and SC4 general forums, it needs more visibility and easy accessibility.

Personally I think there should be rankings but keep it simple. People who have had their picture entered in the HoF be it via Best Pic Comps or Monthly Challenges should have their own best picture competition and winners go into the Simtropolis League of Legends. Also make sure there are more rounds say five for prospective contenders wanting their picture to go into the League of Legends- it's got to be tough to get in.

Thus "amateurs" submit pictures via the HoF best pic competition. "Professionals" -- those who have pictures in the HoF -- submit pictures via the LoL best pic competion.

p.s. To add further spice League of Legends winners should have a competition of their own. Winners, after winning 10 consecutive rounds, enter into the Simtropolis Pantheon of Mayor Deities. There's fame... There's legend... And there's GODLIKE!

[CorinaMarie 29,902]

5 hours ago, Ln X said:

Thus "amateurs" submit pictures via the HoF best pic competition. "Professionals" -- those who have pictures in the HoF -- submit pictures via the LoL best pic competion.

Now this would perfectly resolve @TekindusT's concern about being the one to chose whether a pic was amateur or professional.   And then even newbies like me might consider trying this once the no-chance-in-hell-I-can-beat-them peeps are off in their own higher class. (I did browse thru that thread and decided not to humiliate myself with a 0-5 outcome.)

Personally, I feel CSL and SC4 should be separate. As @Hamish mentioned tho, the lack of participation is a good reason to not split things up. This would apply to my idea more so than @Ln X's. I believe if the pros competed elsewhere there might be more of us who'd give it a try in the beginner's category. Basically those who are active there now would move up and then us little kids could use the playground they vacate. 

Btw, does anyone have a way to contact @Mymyjp? The current challenge was basically her idea:

On 2/10/2016 at 8:12 PM, Mymyjp said:

- Vanilla mode only. Building a city with no mods, only what is available with the original game. 3-week challenge. No mods, custom bats or custom lots. Nada, zip, zippo...

 

[APSMS 1,893]

@Ln X Don't forget people like krokanien (of SC4D) who apparently have played the game for years on the level of Dedgren or yourself, and pop out of the blue with images that are, arguably, better than 99.9% of the players on this site in terms of detail and execution.

I feel like the playing field being level is more attractive, since the image itself is what matters. High-level players occasionally post stinkers, or even just images that don't appear to be all that compelling, and new players occasionally post images that, for one reason or another, just POP. Rankings could cause participation bias, in the sense that new ST members might not want to go up against an image posted by a "high-ranking" member for fear of thinking that perhaps they have a following that will vote for them no matter what (not usually true, but to be fair the ST/SC4 community is unlike most online communities).

[CorinaMarie 29,902]

1 hour ago, APSMS said:

(... the ST/SC4 community is unlike most online communities)

How very true. I've been learning this in my short time here. Peeps are articulate, polite, and very helpful. Even very first posts by new members are usually coherent. I suppose that's because it takes a more analytical mindset to enjoy city building games that take weeks and months and years to delve into fully.

[BLANKBLANK 4,414]

1 hour ago, APSMS said:

@Ln X Don't forget people like krokanien (of SC4D) who apparently have played the game for years on the level of Dedgren or yourself, and pop out of the blue with images that are, arguably, better than 99.9% of the players on this site in terms of detail and execution.

I feel like the playing field being level is more attractive, since the image itself is what matters. High-level players occasionally post stinkers, or even just images that don't appear to be all that compelling, and new players occasionally post images that, for one reason or another, just POP. Rankings could cause participation bias, in the sense that new ST members might not want to go up against an image posted by a "high-ranking" member for fear of thinking that perhaps they have a following that will vote for them no matter what (not usually true, but to be fair the ST/SC4 community is unlike most online communities).

These kind of rankings are made on SC4D with MDs: recently published, best sellers, classics and SC4D Mayor's Diary Hall of Fame.