Network Skins (Coming 2016)

[employee731 14]

13 minutes ago, Ronyx69 said:

There are no props in the middle of the roads, if you don't count stuff in the middle of an avenue, you could create prop with an offset pivot or something, but why not just place speed bumps as a regular prop? It's not like you need 200 speedbumps nicely aligned to the road.

While making this mini roundabout http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=756149157&searchtext=roundabout

I noticed some of the smaller roads have a higher level than the rest so it wouldn't be visible when you place on the road. The speed bump asset would need its pivot fine tuned so it doesn't float. And it would need to conform to terrain.

I will eventually attempt a speed bump myself, although it's not a priority, so maybe sometime next year. It will also be a UK themed bump so it may not fit the theme in your build. There are many different speed bump designs around the world and thinking about texturing the bump so in looks real would be difficult, without it looking like a glitch. If we had move it mod in the asset editor. You may be able to sink a node underground so the speed bump would actually work! Unlikely to happen though.

I think adding speed bumps to this mod is unnecessary as you wouldn't have much control of there position unlike a prop speed bump.

 

[Tim The Terrible 586]

Who says we need another mod for Light Rail?

 

[Acc3ssViolation 81]

Quote

Future of Cities Skylines?

Yes, yes it is!

[mikamaty 47]

15 hours ago, Tim The Terrible said:

Who says we need another mod for Light Rail?

 

Don't you have Catenary Replacer for this? Otherwise you can merge this two mods together. Or is this like the funktion of Catenary Replacer but that you can change the catenary for each track?

[boformer 3,169]

A new maintenance update was released. It fixes a few possible bugs and adds an autoheight feature to the customizer window.

[boformer 3,169]

Some stuff I've been working on:

[Tim The Terrible 586]

16 hours ago, mikamaty said:

Don't you have Catenary Replacer for this? Otherwise you can merge this two mods together. Or is this like the funktion of Catenary Replacer but that you can change the catenary for each track?

Catenary Replacer replaces the props globally (all of them) and you don't want all your rail infrastructure to be Light Rail, right?

[boformer 3,169]

I thought about the future of NetworkSkins today, about things like rendering performance, memory usage, skins and amount of options.

Right now the customization system is very static. Skins are not really allowing the amount of customization that I want. The rendering performance drops with every new option I'm adding. The reason for that is that NetworkSkins recalculates the prop list every time the prop is rendered. It does not keep the modified prop list in memory.

I think memory usage is less important than rendering performance. And storing the prop list in memory also allows me to add a completely new level of customization. For example, it would allow us to add trees and street lights to any road. Also the addition of completely new props, like randomly placed crack decals, signs and road furniture.

And here is the greatest new feature I want to implement: Skins with customization options

Right now the customization options are hardcoded into NetworkSkins. There are options for pillars, trees, street lights, prop distances, ground texture and catenaries.

I want to give you a way to add more options to your own skins, like:

• a checkbox to add (noise) barriers to a highway
• a checkbox to remove zebra crossings at intersections

Basically your skins defines which options are available in the customization window, and what effects these options have.

All the existing features of NetworkSkins will also be transferred to this new system, and I want to add a few new options.

[mikamaty 47]

5 minutes ago, boformer said:

I thought about the future of NetworkSkins today, about things like rendering performance, memory usage, skins and amount of options.

Right now the customization system is very static. Skins are not really allowing the amount of customization that I want. The rendering performance drops with every new option I'm adding. The reason for that is that NetworkSkins recalculates the prop list every time the prop is rendered. It does not keep the modified prop list in memory.

I think memory usage is less important than rendering performance. And storing the prop list in memory also allows me to add a completely new level of customization. For example, it would allow us to add trees and street lights to any road. Also the addition of completely new props, like randomly placed crack decals, signs and road furniture.

And here is the greatest new feature I want to implement: Skins with customization options

Right now the customization options are hardcoded into NetworkSkins. There are options for pillars, trees, street lights, prop distances, ground texture and catenaries.

I want to give you a way to add more options to your own skins, like:

• a checkbox to add (noise) barriers to a highway
• a checkbox to remove zebra crossings at intersections

Basically your skins defines which options are available in the customization window, and what effects these options have.

All the existing features of NetworkSkins will also be transferred to this new system, and I want to add a few new options.

Do you have so much free time? But this is fantastic news!

[boformer 3,169]

Just now, mikamaty said:

Do you have so much free time? But this is fantastic news!

No.

[mikamaty 47]

14 minutes ago, boformer said:

No.

Then this will take a while I think 

[R3V0 909]

31 minutes ago, boformer said:

No.

The dot in the end explains a lot, lol

[Dezelles 24]

The total customization which you envisage is an absolutely brilliant idea. Thank you again for this huge work.
That makes me dream... Obviously, if I begin dreaming, that inspires me many questions and suggestions...

What would be the coordination with the NExT and MOM teams?
I know that domains are different, however, the possibilities that you evoke can answer recurring requests at NExT team and could offer them solutions...
The replacement of the textures of ways makes obsolete the various versions of the pedestrian ways of NExT.
The choice of props on any way makes also obsolete various vanilla roads.

Let us imagine that the markings of lanes are not anymore integrated into textures but completely created by props and decals: the player could realize the special lanes where he wants. That would require that Traffic ++ integrates tram and bikes in Vehicle Restrictions (even add other categories: carpool, motorcycles, trucks - heavy weights -, vans, specializations oil, ore...). But, that would allow to delete in the UI all road versions with special lanes: Four-Lane Roads with Bicycle Lanes, Bus Lanes or Tram Tracks... And that would allow especially, to create a Four-Lane Road with Bus, Bicycle lanes and Tram Tracks!
The point blocking for this solution could be the rendering performance.
Important remark: all the elements (props or trees) placed with Network Skins are not counted in Object Limit Data.
On the other hand, I don't know if there is a limit among elements on a segment (as 64 props or trees on an asset).

I cannot avoid raising the problem of the parking lane. In the vanilla roads, let us say that there is systematically a space, " flexible " but necessarily used: or for the traffic of specific vehicles (as we saw it previously), or by plantations (grass or trees), or by the parking lane. Like it will be possible to add plantations on any road, will it be also possible to delete or to add parking lane?
My ultimate wish would be to be able to configure the car park as we wish it: orientation, alternation, vehicles, duration, payment... But, it is probably still too early to speak about it.
The main idea would be to delete of the UI all the versions of a road: Four-Lane Road (with parking spaces), Four-Lane Road with Decorative Grass and Four-Lane Road with Decorative Trees... We would not have more than single Four-Lane Road, on whom we would place what we want: trees, grass, car park, bus lanes, bicycle paths, tram (within the limits of the available space, of course!)...

I think that it's also linked to the management of meshes. Previously, you had answered me on this matter: "barriers can be added to the median of a road". My interrogation is on "added"... I think that it's a question of replacing a meshe of avenue without separator by a meshe of the same avenue with separator, and not "to stack" a separator meshe on a avenue meshe...
The 2nd hypothesis would constitute a revolution: be able to synchronize the construction of several networks!

In a more "realistic" way, I how wondered to customize, for example, the parapets of the elevated roads or the sound barriers. I envisage 3 possibilities:
- the current construction: rails or barriers are included in the meshe => that would require the creation of numerous meshes, what seems to me complex (and risked...)
- using of props: there would be a unique meshe (without rail or barrier) on which we would place the desired props => that would require the re-creation of initial meshe, that would allow to use existing props (numerous). Even there, the blocking point could be the rendering performance, but I think especially that a central separator, for example, created as props couldn't receive other elements as trees...
- using Railway Elevated Pillar template as for pillars: there would be a virgin meshe on which we would place the desired building, to which we could always add props thanks to excellent Prop Snapping => that would require the re-creation of initial meshe, buildings creation or props conversion. Once again, subject to the rendering performance and subject to the possibility of assuring a continuity of elements. I don't know if this technique would be effective for sidewalks...

So stop me I am wrong, but it seems to me that Network Skins has not for vocation "to clean" the UI of the roads which it would make redundant, nor to recompose elements: it's much more the domain which make NExT or MOM teams... But your work opens so many perspectives that I return to my initial question there: what coordination?

[Dezelles 24]

I return at the heart of the subject...

Will Network Skins allow a positioning totally free of elements?
You have already given us the possibility of choosing the side spacing. Do you think you can also allow us to define the initial position of the element? That would, for example, allow to alternate various tree types, to position a "planter round x1 " under every tree, and to alternate them with benches...
That would involve to define also the transverse position of elements: the elements distribution on the width of the road. Indeed, it will be necessary to be able to specify that trees, planters round and benches are placed on the same line...
For props, the rotation can also be defined (or random), little in the style of the options proposed by PLT?

How will Network Skins manage the effects?
"Basically your skins defines which options are available in the customization window, and what effects these options have."
I really like very much this idea, but I'm not convinced by your proposal of checkbox: 1 element = 1 (or several) effect (s), that seems to me sufficient. When we place street lights, you don't ask us to confirm that they are going to enlighten the road...
I also think that the effects of a road (or other network) do not limit themselves to the only CO developments, and that modders could use this opportunity to complete their systems. For example, that would be very relevant for Rainfall. But, we can also envisage, in the future, mods which would modify the traffic according to the lighting, surface, signs...
Give the possibility to the modders to being able to associate an effect with components (meshes, textures, props, trees, REP template), offer them an easy access to the values of every component (quantity, length, surface, volume...) and let them make the rest...
Remark: the same component must be able to accept various effects of one or several modders.
Of course, if you wish to propose us mods to manage effects, I think that we shall use them with pleasure!

Will Network Skins impact on construction cost and maintenance costs?
The information usable for the effects could also allow to adapt the costs of construction and maintenance according to the used components, as well as the costs of refitting / reconstruction.
It would seem to me so logical to include consumptions (electric, for example, for the lighting).

Will network Skins include the intersections and the stops?
You indicated that it would be possible to remove zebra at intersections. Will it be possible to customize crosswalks (including created by Crossings) by modifying width, marking, to add to it a speed bump (by a particular meshe)? It will be possible to modify the models of traffic lights, rail crossings...
In the same order of idea, will it be possible to customize every bus stop or tram stop? When we place a bus stop, its length is fixed (4 squares), the sidewalk is always moved back and the constituent elements are always the same, according to the road. Could we choose freely elements (with or without shelter, for example) but also define the grip on the road (withdrawal or not, length...) with, of course, the adequate road markings?
We agree that we speak only possibility, the alternate models remaining to create.

A simple player can personalize his elements?
There are 2 parts in my question.
The first part concerns the possibility of organizing his elements and of identifying them.
I imagine a system of xml file where the player can list his elements by categories, define the name used in the interface and possibly the other parameters. An element is defined by its component (meshe, texture, props, tree, REP template) and its possible effects. For example, the same texture (asphalt) can have effects on the noise, the absorption of rainwater, electricity production... every option must be accessible to the player when he configures his road, and it seems to me that the possibility of displaying it in his tongue would be extremely beneficial.
For the categories, they have to allow to filter elements according to certain criteria, to optimize the configuration. It already exists: pillars, street lights, trees... But the player would have the possibility of reorganizing them by distinguishing, for example, urban, rural, modern, former... and/or by associating it with a criterion as a type of way (roads, highways, railroads ...), the width of the way...
The second part concerns the possibility for the player to record his configuration and to being able, of course, reuse its later, as before or by adapting its.

Sorry to have been so long…
Thank you for your attention.

[Mcity241 7]

Why not add something like custom highway signs? My idea would be to click on a highway segment, customize the sign using a customising tool like this one: http://www.kurumi.com/roads/signmaker/signmaker.html (including custom added shields), then click place, and you have a sign on your highway.

[mikamaty 47]

28 minutes ago, Mcity241 said:

Why not add something like custom highway signs? My idea would be to click on a highway segment, customize the sign using a customising tool like this one: http://www.kurumi.com/roads/signmaker/signmaker.html (including custom added shields), then click place, and you have a sign on your highway.

This is a very good idea! I want this!

[boformer 3,169]

@Dezelles  so many questions. I'm unable to answer them all right now.

In general, NS only makes visual changes. No parking, no construction cost.

Having props for medians is ressource-intensive and difficult. Segment-Meshes are the way to go.

My latest proposal allows you to add any prop or any mesh with XML files. Randomisation, Rotation, Position...

 

[Dezelles 24]

@boformer I understand. Thanks.

@Mcity241 & @mikamaty That already exists: Mark-a-Route

[mikamaty 47]

2 hours ago, Dezelles said:

@boformer I understand. Thanks.

@Mcity241 & @mikamaty That already exists: Mark-a-Route

This is not what I meant. With Mark-a-Route you can just write on props. But I want something to change like the bridge pillars or street lights.

[Dezelles 24]

@mikamaty Sorry, but I don't understand.

It seems to me that you want a global mod like these: Europe Road Signs (Italy) Segnaletica Stradale, UK Roads - Textures and Signs - NeXT Support or American RoadSigns v1.0.3
For me, road signs must be managed by traffic++ or TP:ME, and use a global mod for replacement. That's not part of Network Skins, even if it will be possible to use it to add signs.

For customization of highway signs, Mark-a-Route makes what Mcity214 describes... or almost. I agree that it could be improved but that's a beginning...

[mikamaty 47]

1 hour ago, Dezelles said:

@mikamaty Sorry, but I don't understand.

It seems to me that you want a global mod like these: Europe Road Signs (Italy) Segnaletica Stradale, UK Roads - Textures and Signs - NeXT Support or American RoadSigns v1.0.3
For me, road signs must be managed by traffic++ or TP:ME, and use a global mod for replacement. That's not part of Network Skins, even if it will be possible to use it to add signs.

For customization of highway signs, Mark-a-Route makes what Mcity214 describes... or almost. I agree that it could be improved but that's a beginning...

I think @Mcity241 means that what I also mean, customizable higway signs like the possibility to customize pillars with Network Skins. You do not have a prop, you can change the vanilla highway sign on beginning of off-ramps.

[Judazzz 1,936]

Wouldn't it be better to use an approach à la Billboard Animator mod (I like the idea of Mark-a-Route, but I don't like the road signs it uses), where you can select road signs that are auto-placed by the game as well as ploppable road sign template props (one for each type of sign), and then choose a locally stored, custom texture that will be applied to it? This would allow any player to create their own textures based on the template prop and use them in-game, share them in the Workshop, etc. For highway signs especially this would be nice, as everyone could create his/her own exit signs that display their own district names and road numbers. Ideally this should all be done in-game (with a texture creator tool) to make it usable for as many players as possible, but creating them in a photo editor and copy them to a local folder that is read by the mod when loading your city (so they are available in an in-game 'Road sign texture selection' panel) would also work.

The above is actually something I've been considering (and experimenting with) for my American RoadSigns mod, but I'm not sure if my knowledge is sufficient to pull it off (if I manage to find enough time to begin with...)

[Ombladon156 2]

I didn't know where to post this, however, i wanted to ask if this can be added for network skins? I really like grass tram tracks and i think they should be added to the game: 

[boformer 3,169]

2 hours ago, Ombladon156 said:

I didn't know where to post this, however, i wanted to ask if this can be added for network skins? I really like grass tram tracks and i think they should be added to the game:

That will be possible with the Skins feature.

[wojtason 113]

Boformer, would that be possible to customize highways? I mean Network Skins functionality with possibility of adding barriers to every type of highway?

[Ronyx69 2,413]

1 hour ago, wojtason said:

Boformer, would that be possible to customize highways? I mean Network Skins functionality with possibility of adding barriers to every type of highway?

Yes, because you can customize meshes. But that brings me to the question...

On 11/17/2016 at 7:41 PM, boformer said:

That will be possible with the Skins feature.

Will network skins allow adding more meshes to a segment or just switching out the ones that are already there? Some segments have multiple meshes, like for example a tram road - it has 3 meshes - road, rail, powerline. Interested how handling those will work.

[wojtason 113]

Superb. Can't wait for it. 

[boformer 3,169]

12 hours ago, Ronyx69 said:

Will network skins allow adding more meshes to a segment or just switching out the ones that are already there? Some segments have multiple meshes, like for example a tram road - it has 3 meshes - road, rail, powerline. Interested how handling those will work.

I want to add the possibility to add new NetSegments, but I don't know if that will make it into the next release.

[wasmic 111]

Is work still going on with this, or is it on a hiatus?

[baduncansd 14]

@boformer Amazing work on all of your assets and mods.  Thank you so much for your contributions to the community.  Thanks also for sharing your long term vision of where Network Skins is going.  Could you share a little bit about the immediate next step for Network Skins and do you have any estimate on when it will be released?