Jason's BATs & Tutorials

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Fledging, I'll "just say no."

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8042/211prev7ds4.jpg

^ There's two screenshots, one of the new nitelites, and the other during the day that shows the new roof (it's still a work in progress, any suggestions?).

The main problem with the nitelites is fixed.  The problem was that the mechanical part and the roof part weren't matching, and it looked weird.  So I gave them both the same texture, so they respond to light about the same way.  I also made 5 directional lights (one for each direction) which uniformly lit up the roof part and the penthouse part.  They only included those two parts.  Then I made a big line of omnis which only include the columns to light up those.

As you can see, the columns in the lower corner are darker than the rest, and as it gets farther away it gets brighter.  This is because as it goes along, there are more and more omnis giving it light.

After I make this post and eat food, I'll try making a few directional lights to replace those, so that there isn't that ramp of light.  The columns are actually diamond shapes (see below), so they will only be lit on the back half, some of which I expect to still be visible.  If that doesn't work, then I'll combine both, and that should minimize the bad and max the good for both.  so that's what i'll try.

 _

/   \

\_/

SimFox, that makes sense, I tried it out, and it looks like it works.  It also looks like my Final Gather might have effected it, but now I have a much better idea of how it will look.

The pattern I'm talking about is on the side wall.  There are vertical bands.  I'm pretty sure it can be fixed by changing the anti-alias settings (which I still can't find, lol, there in there somewhere!).  I know it's not modeling problems at least, since all of those window units were modeled as one piece (except for the glass panes).

The mail is beautiful!

[Fledgeling 1]

It looks great! The lights rock.

[gerAndi 29]

the new building looks simply great!

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Thanks!  Hopefully I'll get around to finishing them.

Just so everyone knows, I'll be updating all BSP BATs at the BSP thread (check out my signature).  All non BSP BATs will still be updated in this thread, but I want to focus on BSP BATs in the future.

This is my new project.  Not for SC4, but for my architecture portfolio.  It's a Beefaroni can.

- I used a ruler and measured the details of the can.  I used the Lathe modifier, and a smoothing modifier.  I still need to model the pull tab.  The metal material needs improving.

- I took the label off the can, flattened it, and took a picture of it. It turned out really bad though.  So I've been reconstructing the label from better pictures from the internet, and with photoshop's tools, using my own label as a guide for proportions and stuff.  This is still in progress, but I should be able to get it good with some time.

Current Problems:

- I modeled the can underneath the label, and the paper label itself separately.  I thought there was a modifier that would let me have the label slightly conform to the can like real paper does, but I can't find something that would be good.  Cloth looked like it might work, but I can't seem to get it to look right.

- The metal looks too clean or something.  The real can has darker dark spots, and is darker over all.  Right now it's hard to tell, since the label is on, and the top doesn't have anything to reflect (neither does the bottom either I guess), but it doesn't seem like the way it should be.

The metal is an anisotropic with a Specular Level of 250, and Anisotropy of 65.  It has an 80% reflection map with "Metal (Lume)" using its defaults.

- The top of the can has opening instructions printed on the top of it.  I've read tutorials about cars, with multiple materials and alpha masks, and I'll be doing the same here, and I don't think that will be a problem.  The problem will be getting a photo to get the graphic design from.  My camera isn't good enough to get that close and sharp.  I don't know why I'm asking about that here, but if anyone has any ideas, they'd help.  I was thinking about just recreating it completely by myself, since I have a ruler, I can measure things out.

This is for my architecture portfolio.  I want this to be done around Tuesday so I can get started on other things for my portfolio.

[ardecila 124]

Hmm...

First of all, you need to work with your label material.  Right now, you have a flat bitmap.  It needs a higher specular level, and also a bump map.  Doing a little Sharpening on it in Photoshop would do a world of good.

For the bump map, use a mix map.  One half of the mix will be a horizontal gradient, with one end a few notches higher than the other.  When wrapped around a cylinder, this will create the seam where the end of the label overlaps the other end.  This avoids having to use geometry to represent the seam.  Map offsets can be used to shift the seam to any place around the can.  The other part of the mix map should be that noise map I mentioned.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Thanks Ardecila.  The bump map is a good idea.  I'm not sure if I'll be showing that part of the can yet, so I'll wait to do it.  I'll add in some noise after the class I need to go to after this post.

I also made it sharper (changed it from Gauss to Lancoz), and I've worked on the bitmap more.  I raised the specular level up.  I think that's good for now, since when I get it to conform to the can, some highlights should be created, and from there I'll continue to adjust it.

 

And there's the can without the label.  Modeling wise I think it's just fine (except for the top, which isn't done), but it doesn't look like the right kind of metal.

Oh yeah, and the ground texture and "compositiion" is temporary.  The scene will have a can or two, a quick plastic bowl, on top of a wooden table or something like that.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Page flip!

[nofunk 1,933]

Will this be a CS$$ then? If you need any help modding it, just let me know!

Seriously though, I couldn't make a tin can look that realistic in 3ds max, so good job!

[Gecko_2006 1]

Ugh! Beefaroni? That makes me want to puke! But in a good way.

But really, that looks great. The only thing that looks the slightest bit off is the top- too flat- it should have the reflection of surrounding buildings, or the sky on it.

Oh- and the concrete the can rests on is at a different perspective than the base of the can suggests.

Your white building looks beautiful, whether you don't like it or not. I'm far too impatient to pursue something like that.

[Sim shady 12]

lol when i read this at first glance i sincerely thought you were planning on making this into a building in SC4...well hats off to your amazing skills

[Glenni 1,444]

Releaze ze  übercan!!!

Neheh just kidding, nice work on the modeling and texturing on that...can

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Thanks everyone!

lol, just to make it clear to everyone, like I said, this is for my architecture portfolio, not Sim City. According to the schedule I made myself, I only have today and tomorrow evening to finish the can.  After I finish everything else, I can go back and continue working on it if I have time.

The modeling so far was very easy.  I just used a ruler to measure the details of a can, and then I made a spline accordingly.  I Lathed both splines to make the two parts, and moved them close to each other.

The concrete (which is temporary, btw), is on the exact same plane as the can.   It will be put in a desk-like environment, which I'll make really fast.

After the can, I'll be doing an actual building for my portfolio.  A design for the Statler block in Detroit for Quicken Loans.  The plan is for office, residential, hotel, and a small amount of retail.  I already have the design in my head, I just need to work out the specifics.

[gshmails 534]

Sounds alot different from my portfolio when I was in school. It looks great! Office, residential, hotel, and retail sounds tough but fun to figure out. Good luck, I hope we get to see pictures of that building as well.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

You're an architect then?  That's cool, tell us about it.

The portfolio isn't specific about what to include.  I'm doing a beefaroni can because it should show my understanding of a few different things.  I'm also including some drawings from my drawing classes, and some photography (if what I have is worth putting in).  Also, I made a cartoon before, and also a website, so I'll put screenshots from those in there too.  Oh yeah, and a SC building or two.

[gshmails 534]

In my day, it was important to show off your handwriting. I guess that it isn't very important today! What you put in your portfolio depends greatly on what kind of architect you plan to be. Most large firms want to see your technical ability in terms of producing real-world documents, as well as a creative mind and a team player. Smaller firms are looking for someone unique to bring something new to the business, and someone who will grow with the firm. I would actually suggest a technical portfolio and a creative one, depending on the interview!

As for me, I am a residential architect. I work independently for a few different people. I went to Lehigh University (not a mecca of architecture), and worked in the Hamptons (Long Island, NY) for seven years making the summer houses of the well-off. I am actually trying to transition into furniture design, but architecture has a death grip on me!

Good luck with the portfolio, feel free to ask for advice if you need it.

Shmails

[Odd from Sweden 129]

Hello Jason, Nice to see the Boyardee building, will look great in he middle of those NAM roundabouts. Looks good but plz dont forget to add some roof junk before U release it!

LOL no serously it looks like it will fit your portfolio provided those improvements already discussed. When it comes to the slight stretching of the paper wrapping over the tin can structure, I would just try to just fake those on the bitmap with a slight shadow in Photoshop. It is only some 1/10th millimeter or so so even if it would be modeled the profile would not be visible in the render. To make the scene morte interesting you could also add some dust, scratches and moisture damage to the label, as the can would look if it had been in your backpack for a week when you had been out hiking.

When it comes to the portfolio I agree with gshmails, what to put init depends on the employer You will see. The best thing is to have a portfolio where You can change material depending on the occation and over time, so avoid to glue and tie everything togehter in a book if that has ever hit your mind. The mix of material you have seems interesting and should show your different skills. As You include some Sim City stuff make sure to tell the employer about the Sim City community. Employers really like people who are social, know a lot of people and have the ability to create new contacts. So if You say "Yeah and by the way when I needed some advice on finishing this macaroni can I got some input from an architect in Sweden I know trough Simtropolis", it is just what they want to hear.

Good luck!

[Jasoncw 11,840]

So you're an architect too!?

Thanks for the advice guys.  This portfolio is for a college application, so the "employer" is the University of Michigan.

I'll work on the can later tonight, and I'll post what I have.

I might send you guys parts of my portfolio as it gets closer to being done.

[gshmails 534]

Well, that changes everything! Then I think you are going about it in the correct way. Colleges are looking for creativity, hard-work, and individual thinking. I would still try to show some technical drawings with dimensions and notes, maybe one full drawing set of one building (with the model as well). The rest should show who you are as a person.

If you need examples, let me know. Good luck!

[Odd from Sweden 129]

Yes I am an architect, I am just about to finish Archtect Scool to get my diploma, though I have been working self-employed in the business for some years now (here in Sweden "architect" is not a protected title unlike most other countries, so the graduation is more or less a formality).

Well if You are applying for an architecture class/ scool then I would strongly suggest to emphasize on creative things that are related to art and architecture and keep finished building proposals to a minimum. In my experience, they basicaly do not want students who already know how to design houses. That is what they want to teach... I did not understand that and never got into architecture scool in the application tests (You can also be accepted into architecture scool by the swedish general univeristy test which finally made me into the architecture scool)

Hope You make it!!

[wolverine 12]

I discussed the matter with Jason about him applying to the University of Michigan. I'm graduating from the program this year, but I was on part of the admissions board last year reviewing portfolios, although I'm not this year because I don't have time. Jason won't be formulating a full fledged proposal, rather a creative suggestion for the Statler block. He will be assembling BASIC ideas of structure, egress, massing, facade, and programatic layout. It doesn't have to get into the real technical stuff, just logical placement office/residential space, lobbies, bathrooms etc. The reason why he is doing it is to present his abilities to the admissions board in the realm of technical drawing and design through a variety of mediums, like AutoCAD, 3ds, Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. The admissions board will not downplay any project. They'll take anything from a painting of a sunset, to a detailed and annotated wall section. It's all about your creative and technical abilities that will show you are capable of success in the program.

I know the community here will not like this, but Jason I'd officially take a break from the BAT (which it looks like you've already done) until you get your portfolio in. The time goes fast! Additionally, I'd be interested in seeing your layout when you start putting it together. To ensure the office gets it, I'll ask you to turn it in live in person. It's better this way since they've lost stuff.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Yeah, I haven't done any BAT stuff in the last few weeks.

But right now 211 West Fort Street is just waiting for SimFox to iron out any problems with a niteliting method he's been working on, and then for me to do the nitelites on it, so I wouldn't be able to finish it now anyway.  One Woodward Avenue needs the base reworked quite a bit.  751 has actually been totally done for a week or two now, I just need to send it to JBSimio for the querry, but I just haven't gotten around to it yet, lol.

After I make the building for my portfolio, I'll see if it fit with SC4.  It's on a pie shaped block, and the difference in modeling (realistic vs cartoony) might not make it good for SC4.  It's for my architecture portfolio first and most importantly.

So odd, you don't need a licence or a degree to be an architect in Sweden?  That's really interesting.

Thanks guys, I'll post updates on my progress later.

[marc 13]

As you're laying out your portfolio in InDesign/Illustrator/etc, remember to limit your use of graphics other than the content you're presenting. If there's anything reviewers/architects hate, it's glitzy graphics surrounding the presentation material, since they take attention away from your work.

Simple sans-serif fonts for titles/descriptions and maybe a black line/bar or two separating text from images should be enough for your portfolio layout. Ghosted background images, fancy fonts and graphics, too many colors, etc are big no-nos.

I didn't consider all of this when I had to submit my portfolio for architecture, but I made it somehow. (I'm a second-year student now.)

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of over the top trendy graphics anyway, so I wasn't really planning on that. 

There's some progress on that.  I need to model some stuff in the air for the tops of the lids to reflect.  I also have some texture and materials work to do.  This is taking longer than I though it would.

[SimFox 801]

couple of points I think you should pay some attention to:

1. Composition... You're not planning to submit this one for the portfolio render that you will be presenting to the school, are you??

2. Materials... Well now the ceramic bowls and cans look exactly the same and I don't believe they should. About bowls, what color are they suppose to be? Cans... reflections, well, unless these sort of glazed or extremely polished those shouldn't be like that.

3. Paper. it should also have some reflectivity. look at the show side - it's way to dark there. I see you've managed to get paper conforming to the ridges on the can - but I guess you've down it with bump... not right method for such a close up. you should use geometry for that (may be displacement), but really cloth should be your tool here...

4. Environment and lighting. Try HDRI and more defused lighting...

[marc 13]

Just curious- about how long does it take to render that scene in 3dsmax?

How much system and graphics memory does your computer have?

(I'm thinking of upgrading from 1 to 2gb of memory to speed up rendering time in rhino and cinema4d, but I don't know if there would be a marked improvement.)

[wolverine 12]

Originally posted by: marcszar As you're laying out your portfolio in InDesign/Illustrator/etc, remember to limit your use of graphics other than the content you're presenting. If there's anything reviewers/architects hate, it's glitzy graphics surrounding the presentation material, since they take attention away from your work.

Simple sans-serif fonts for titles/descriptions and maybe a black line/bar or two separating text from images should be enough for your portfolio layout. Ghosted background images, fancy fonts and graphics, too many colors, etc are big no-nos.

I didn't consider all of this when I had to submit my portfolio for architecture, but I made it somehow. (I'm a second-year student now.)quote>

Excellent points

[MarcosMX 222]

Are those things real??? If they are, man you rock

[SimFox 801]

Marczar: sorry, the question wasn't to me, but I believe I can give you some estimates - scene like this with lighting like this should render (if properly set up) in few minutes, I would say 5-10 tops (with resolutions of about 800x600)

Graphic memory is absolutely irrelevant for rendering speeds. System memory can be a limiting factor but in a different way then speed. Depending on the size of the scene, number of objects complexity of the lighting methods chosen for GI and renderer used problem may be that you'll run out of allocatable memory - which is more then just your system memory - it is total memory space that could be accessed/allocated by/to application/OS.Generally by default for 32 bit OS it is 2Gb. So if your system memory is less that that some "fake" one will be created on your HDD. In Windows XP Pro there is a little simple trick that allows to get this space up to 3Gb. For small and simple scene like this this is vastly more then needed, but if you serious about 3D you should think about switching to 64bit OS. And last thing - absolutely crucial (from hardware point of view) for render speed - CPU. At the moment Intel's Core Duo/Quads are undisputed kings!

From Software point of view there are also HUGE differences in speed. Mental Ray 3,5 shipped with Max 9 is huge step forward in terms of speed but also quality and especially ease of use compared to the previous version 3,4. For any "interior type of renderings - V-Ray is still King of the hill!

So, what I'm trying to say - this is very complex (although not too complicated) issue. Shortly said increase in memory from 1Gb to 2Gb wouldn't have very direct and very noticeable impact on rendering speed. It will you r interactive work with your application more pleasant...

There are effective ways to conserve your memory. For instance in the scene here you would be wise to instance bowls and cans - in that way there will be only 1 bowl and 1 or 2 cans loaded into memory...

[Jasoncw 11,840]

SimFox:  Thanks for the input, it's always extremely appreciated.

1.  The composition was just a quick temporary one for here.  I'll spend time to make my final one work.  It will use the same elements (labled can, unlabeled can, and bowl) as seen there.  I'm sorta limited because most angles will force me to make more environment, which I might not have time for.

2.  The bowls are supposed to be plastic, which shows how bad the materials are.  I'll do some research on plastic materials.  I figured the plastic I'm trying to make would be pretty simple.

3.  I spent a long time trying to get the cloth modifier right.  I have the documentation/tutorials somewhere on my computer (not where they should be, lol), so I went to redownload them from the site, and it wanted me to update adobe, since I hate updating things since it's such a hassle, but when I updated it froze everything, and I haven't gone back yet.  Anyway, I couldn't get the cloth to work, but it will be faster for me to just model the paper instead of figuring out cloth.  I can just use the can sides I made, and modify those to make the paper, which should work well.

4.  I don't think I have the right plugins for HDRI.  I definitely know what you mean about the lighting.  I've been working on it, but I can't get it to work right.  It seems like there's either not enough shadow or too strong of shadow.  Do you have any recommendations for a lighting set up?

marcszar:  Yep, pretty much what SimFox said.  I don't remember exactly how long, but it's not too long.  Plus I use the time it renders to study what I have done so far, so it's not always wasted time.

MarcosMX:  lol, thanks, they're not really that good though.  The modeling is good in my opinion (the measurements are pretty close), but the materials aren't very good.

But I've stopped working on these for now.  They were taking too long and I didn't see the project finishing up soon.  After making the last update I did some more tweaking, and then I moved on to my building design (a design for Quicken Loans at the rumored Statler site, for those familiar with Detroit).  That's sorta coming along, but there's not much to show yet.  I spent a lot of time just finalizing what I wanted with drawings, after I spent a lot of time modeling something that didn't work at all.  I might post that, I don't know, for some reason I feel like I shouldn't.

[SimFox 801]

you don't need any additional plugins for HDRI. It all should be in MAX by default... I haven't used it (HDRI) with MR yet, but I did and do with V-Ray, but I'm sure it is possible.

Plastic as a material doesn't have (IMHO) any particular and unique property. May be because plastics for a long while were used to imitate other materials... One thing you may try to give a go is translucency to imitate semitransparent plastic.

About lighting, take a careful look at shadows. I mean at shadows at scene you. Have you ever seen professional photoshoot? Seen those big reflectors used? Try those instead of modeling "room" around your objects...

Remember to keep you bounce count high enough - for interior scenes something like 5-8. but I would also recommend to take a look at V-Ray. For interior type of scenes it's Light Cache is better suited then MR.